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9th Circuit rules individuals have no right to bear arms
- Thread starter bwood
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Frackal
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LOL!
collegiateLifter
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put it in context, and most things point toward the individual person, that in part makes up 'the people,' bearing arms.
haha, dunno what to think about sniper rifles though
haha, dunno what to think about sniper rifles though
Silent Method
New member
This is one of the scariest posts I have ever read. Either you are illiterate, misinformed, disablingly stupid, evil, or a combination of all. The bill of rights is a document outlining esential rights of the people, citizens of the United States - not rights of the state and federal government.AustinTX said:
Here's a couple quotes for you:
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;..." Thomas Jefferson letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. 1824. ME 16:45.
And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms;…" Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789 quoting Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State by the Honorable Samuel Adams, Esquire.
"If in the opinion of the people the distribution or modification of the constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates, but let there be no change by usurpation; for though this in one instance may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed." George Washington
"The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals … It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789
"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson
"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." Zachariah Johnson, 3 Elliot, Debates at 646 (June 25, 1788).
"It has been a spectacle displaying to the highest advantage of republican government to behold the most and the least wealthy of our citizens standing in the same ranks as private soldiers, preeminently distinguished by being the army of the Constitution..." President George Washington
"The great object is that every man be armed ... Everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 386
"Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped;…" Alexander Hamilton
"Among the natural rights of the Colonists are these: First, a right to life; Secondly, to liberty; Thirdly, to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. These are evident branches of, rather than deductions from, the duty of self-preservation, commonly called the first law of nature." Samuel Adams
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them …" Thomas Paine
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson
"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …" Richard Henry Lee
"I ask, Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426, June 16, 1788.
"An instance within the memory of some of this house will show us how our militia may be destroyed. Forty years ago, when the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man [Sir William Keith], who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually, by totally disusing and neglecting the militia. [Here Mr. Mason quoted sundry passages to this effect.] This was a most iniquitous project. Why should we not provide against the danger of having our militia, or real and natural strength, destroyed." George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426, June 16, 1788.
"... I most cordially agree, with the honorable member last up, that a standing army is one of the greatest mischiefs that can possibly happen ... The most effectual way to guard against a standing army, is to render it unnecessary. The most effectual way to render it unnecessary, is to give the general government full power to call forth the militia, and exert the whole natural strength of the Union, when necessary. Thus you will furnish the people with sure and certain protection, without recurring to this evil; and the certainty of this protection from the whole will be a strong inducement to individual exertion." James Madison, in an immediate, agreeable response to George Mason's quote immediately above, June 16, 1788.
"That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided..." George Mason, Draft proposal, 3 Elliot, Debates at 659.
"That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty: and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power." Draft Amendment
"What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty." Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress at 750 (August 17, 1789).
"Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins. This was actually done by Great Britain at the commencement of the late revolution." Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress at 750 (August 17, 1789).
"The Militia is composed of free Citizens. There is therefore no Danger of their making use of their Power to the destruction of their own Rights, or suffering others to invade them." Samuel Adams
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." Thomas Jefferson
"What the Subcommittee on the Constitution uncovered was clear--and long-lost--proof that the second amendment to our Constitution was intended as an individual right of the American citizen to keep and carry arms in a peaceful manner, for protection of himself, his family, and his freedoms." Senator Orrin Hatch, Chairman, Senate Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on the Constitution, 97th Cong., 2d Sess.
"The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half-century after its ratification, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner." - United States Senate, Report of the Senate Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on the Constitution, 97th Cong., 2d Sess.
"The second amendment to the federal constitution, as well as the constitutions of many of the states, guaranty to the people the right to bear arms. This is a natural right, not created or granted by the constitutions." Henry Campbell Black, Handbook of American Constitutional Law, 1895.
"The "arms" here meant are those of a soldier ... The citizen has at all times the right to keep arms of modern warfare, if without danger to others, and for purposes of training and efficiency in their use, but not such weapons as are only intended to be the instruments of private feuds or vengeance." Henry Campbell Black, Handbook of American Constitutional Law, 1895.
A bill of rights is in the nature of a classified list of the rights and privileges of individuals, whether personal, civil, or political, which the constitution is designed to protect against governmental oppression, containing also the formal assurance or guaranty of these rights. It is a charter of liberties for the individual, and a limitation upon the power of the state. Such declarations are found in all the state constitutions. And the lack of a bill of rights was one of the objections to the federal constitution most strongly urged when it was before the people for their ratification. Very soon after the adoption of the constitution, this defect was remedied by the adoption of a series of amendments, of which the first eight may be said to constitute the federal bill of rights. Henry Campbell Black, Handbook of American Constitutional Law, 1895.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their 'constitutional' right of amending it or their 'revolutionary' right to dismember or overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn." Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth, Chapter XXVII, Recruiting Campaign, Page 403, Dover paperback edition, 1983. This book was originally published by Public Affairs Press in 1948.
"Finally, I contended that the debate over the question of self-defense was unnecessary since few people suggested that Negroes should not defend themselves as individuals when attacked. The question was not whether one should use his gun when his home was attacked, but whether it was tactically wise to use a gun while participating in an organized demonstration." Martin Luther King, Jr., Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community? Chapter II, Black Power, Page 27, Harper & Row Publishers Inc., First Edition, 1967.
"As we have seen, the first public expression of disenchantment with nonviolence arose around the question of "self-defense." In a sense this is a false issue, for the right to defend one's home and one's person when attacked has been guaranteed through the ages by common law." Martin Luther King, Jr., Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community? Chapter II, Black Power, Page 55, Harper & Row Publishers Inc., First Edition, 1967.
Silent Method
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What do you mean you don't know what to think about "sniper rifles?" What is there to think about? The constitution reinforces our intrinsic right to bear ARMS - not "sporting" tools.collegiateLifter said:
p0ink
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for those interested in the t-shirt, a guy at www.assualtweb.net sells them.
AustinTX
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And once again, I didn't ever say I supported the ruling.
Just that there are those who belive in their intrepretatioin.
Also, as I mentioned in another post; what about nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, switchblades, stilettos, etc. Lots of "arms" have been legislated out of the general population, same with some assault weapons.
Just that there are those who belive in their intrepretatioin.
Also, as I mentioned in another post; what about nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, switchblades, stilettos, etc. Lots of "arms" have been legislated out of the general population, same with some assault weapons.
Silent Method
New member
You are quite ignorant in regard to the Constitution of the United States. You obviously read none of the quotes I posted. Read the ones written or spoken by the framers of the Constitution that directly address the Constitution.AustinTX said:
The amendments were drafted for no other purpose then to spell out the immunities of individual citizens - period.
If you had ever read the Constitution, it should be easy for you to understand that "the state" is composed of the people, individual citizens who are to be free.
Derrr????? Are you for real? The definitive clause in the 3rd amendment is "without the consent of the Owner." The right of the decision to quarter soldiers is defered to that owner.AustinTX said:
"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." Shall not be imposed or inflicted on whom? The people.
PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THIS ONE!
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
Read it. Reread it. Then reread it again and again and again. This guarantees the people the right to retain their rights!
This is pure arrogance. "The rest" of my post, that which you did not read, illuminates many of the beliefs of the people who drafted and/or ratified the 2nd amendment. Those who you put your faith into on this matter have interpreted the amendment with error.AustinTX said:
I beg you, please read at least this:
"On every question of construction [of the Constitution] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." Thomas Jefferson
AustinTX
New member
Silent Method said:
As to the first point it means that just becuase a right is not enumerated in the constitution, does not mean you don't have it. And just because it's not enumerated, doesn't mean it's not important.
As for Jeffersons quote. Look at the fist and second clause of the 2nd ammendment; the fist does not stand on it's own, it is the reasoning for the second. Keep in mind that the malitias were armed by the people in those days (and these days too if you consider taxes
) Therefore, you have the right to join what is now the National Guard if you want to bear arms, in order to protect the free state. If it meant that the people could own any sort of arms they wanted, then you'll need to go back and address my points about bio, nuclear, chemical weapons, switch blades, stilletos, some "military"-type assult weapons, etc. which you do not have the right to bear in most cases.Similar threads
