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5x5 : Prep

R

rmt99e

Banned
Hey guys. I decided that i was going to start a 5x5 routine. This week and next week i will be preparing to start it up. I used the 5x5 format to bench this week and i did this..
110x5-125x5-140x5-155x5-170x5 (i needed a little help on the 170, ill work on it or start lower when i begin the 5x5)
today I just went up in increments of 15 per set.

I saw other people use the same 1st and 2nd set weight for awhile in their routine. So i tried to make a table of what it would look like

any comments, does this table look right?

12321130-bench.JPG


Also for fridays..you do exactly what you are going to do the following monday but 3 reps on the 5th set and a backoff? correct?

Will there be a big deal in benching on wednesday too? Does anyone do this?
 
Sounds like the SF 5x5 to me too.

Looking at your spreadsheet, it looks like you're using the first set as a warm up as it doesn't change. Treat your warm ups separately from the 5 work sets. Warm up with the bar or a couple of small plates, then start the 5 sets. And try to space the 5 sets out more evenly, so you don't have a big jump from 95 to 135. Working with percentages will put you in the right ball-park, but some people will prefer to start higher than others. 10% jumps is a good starting point, so you'd work from 60% to 100%. That'll keep them spread out and your first set will go up slowly over time.

For the triple on friday, you're correct. Add 2-3% to Monday's 5 rep PR and do 3 reps with it on Friday, then 5 reps on the following Monday for another PR.

There's no need to bench on Wednesday. You're already benching on Monday and Friday and hopefully setting PRs every week. Why fuck with it? Overhead press is a good exercise for Wednesdays, which has become common on here. So Wed would be light/front squats, deads, OH press & pullups.

Don't start close to your PRs. Aim to match your PRs in week 4 so you build up some speed before you get to them. Since you struggled at 170 on bench, start at maybe 150, add 5lbs each week, then when you get to 170, slow it down to 2-3lbs per week. The aim is to keep the progression going for as long as you can, not to ramp up to a stall point quickly.

Oh, and read the link numani gave you :)
 
yeah, its a single factor 5x5. I read over some things on the site and it says that you should ramp downwards about 10 or 15% of max. Is it okay to change the ramp every 5 lbs instead of every 2.5 pounds? I don't think it will really make a diff and will make things easier.

I guess i had the right idea the first time i did it starting at 110 and going up by 15. Then every 5lb increase on my max i will raise my 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th set by 5.

so this is what it will look like.

bench week1
Monday
105x5
120x5
135x5
150x5
165x5
Friday
105x5
120x5
135x5
150x5
167.5x3
135x8 BACKOFF

then jump to week 3 (max has gone up 5lbs)
Monday
110x5
125x5
140x5
155x5
170x5

see what i mean? Everytime my max goes up by five i will add 5 to the first four sets. I think this will work well.

And with the max, starting lower is deff a good idea. I also have the rest of this week to see what my true max is at the time.
 
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You can try adding 5lb per week, but once you get into PR territory, most people just can't increase their bench by that amount week after week. Your squat and deadlifts might, because they use bigger muscle groups, but not bench. That's why the small 1lb plates come in handy. The idea is to keep chipping away, adding a bit to your PRs every week. A 5lb increase every week on bench will likely lead you to stalling quickly.

Also, I wouldn't be too keen on increasing all of the earlier sets every week. Some weeks you might just add to the top set, other weeks, you might add a smaller increase to the 3rd and 4th set. Sometimes you increase them all. The top set is always the important one - don't run out of gas before you get to it.
 
anotherbutters said:
You can try adding 5lb per week, but once you get into PR territory, most people just can't increase their bench by that amount week after week. Your squat and deadlifts might, because they use bigger muscle groups, but not bench. That's why the small 1lb plates come in handy. The idea is to keep chipping away, adding a bit to your PRs every week. A 5lb increase every week on bench will likely lead you to stalling quickly.

Also, I wouldn't be too keen on increasing all of the earlier sets every week. Some weeks you might just add to the top set, other weeks, you might add a smaller increase to the 3rd and 4th set. Sometimes you increase them all. The top set is always the important one - don't run out of gas before you get to it.
Click to expand...

yes, i understand all that. i will doing 2.5 lbs a week on my max ( see i put Jump to week 3 thats why its up by 5). And also i was raising the pre-sets by 5 every 2 weeks (once my max goes up 5 from former max)

see what i mean?
 
it's all good man, and i did find a set of 1.25lb plates last week and im just waiting on them to come in. Also i got excel back on my computer and got the file off madcow's site. Sure makes it alot easier than doing it all out myself :Chef:
 
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My spreadsheet is attached, i made it from scratch with help from madcows spreadsheet. Deadlift and incline bench is blank for now because im not sure of my max. Row max isnt certain either but i think thats a good starting point for me, same with squat pretty much..

one more thing..for rows, which way is preferred? Trainer at the gym showed me like 4 ways including the parallel (with the bar closer or further away from the body depending on what you want to work) and then the stand up one with overhand or underhand grip.

And reffering to my bench.. today i did 165x6 (got a extra rep in) completley so i guess ill go with 165 for week1 of the routine when it starts up. I dont see a need to start at say 150 because ive been benching for awhile now.

Also it doesnt matter much but i will prolly make the workouts sunday tuesday thursday since im going snowboarding fridays all january and most of feb.. this is a good idea because ill be busy friday leaving one free day (sat) between the sunday workout. which i like because im addicted to the gym.

I hope the microplates get here soon, im planning to commence this routine sunday the 8th.
 
If you start lower than your maxes and work up to them, the progression up to them should get you stronger. So when you get to them, you've built up some momentum that will carry you on for a while. It took me a while to realise that.

If you start at your maxes, doing your max on week 1 won't be sufficient stimulus to get you strong enough for week 2. Your week 1 weights don't matter too much, it's the difference over time that matters.

With deadlifts, don't worry about finding your max, just be conservative enough on week 1 that you're not close to your max and work up from there. If you're finding them easy, go up by larger amounts from week to week. If they're hard, go up by smaller amounts. Just try to keep it going up as long as possible. (This applies to everything, not just deads).

With rows, do them with your back parallel to the ground so that you get maximum lat recruitment. Keep an arch in your back of course. Again, start light on week 1.
 
Got it. thanks guys. I still have more time this week in the gym to figure out deads and practice the row. I guess i can do week 1 at 160 then do 165 week 2 then start going up by 2.5 a week to make PR's. I understand about the momentum. i should go with it even if i have been benching.
 
If I read the above correctly, you failed at 170 and so, I'm guessing, 165 is your current PR. It's better to err on the side of caution than to be blowing up the program by using too much weight at the start. I'd agree with AnotherButters that 150 would be a better start point for the first week and be hitting 165 in week 3 or 4. Don't let ego get in the way of your progress.
 
Alright i made a change to the bench part on the spreadsheet.

I'm going to do 155 this week at the gym then progress to 160 for week 1 of the program. I dont think it should be a problem. I rather take advantage of this week then do 155 next week.

Do you guys think my bench pyramid is good? Im still kinda unsure about my first four sets as the weeks progress.
 
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well, in our school gym we have a diffrent bar for deads and they require more leg work so using a barbell at a different gym was just plain different. I guess we can try them sumo style though, i just saw some videos.
 
Are yo referring to the diamond-shaped trap bar? I hate those things. You could always jsut grab a regular bar and dead with it, couldn't you?

I think the deadlift is something you shouldn't remove. There is lots of strength to be gained from it.
 
rmt99e said:
alright, ill take your word for it - i think i just have to switch my form up a little bit.
Click to expand...
There's no better time to start. Deadlift is a great exercise which, while it can be avoided, shouldn't be neglected.
 
God..
today we tried again with the sumo technique and it didnt go to well..a trainer there criticed my friends form and another guy told me that im too young to hurt my back. i wasn't even doing that much and personally wasn't feeling strain on my back ( but yet again he can see my form better than myself.) I will say though these felt better than the other day.

and what do you know my inner upper leg hurts, i think i pulled something..great! Oh well. I guess what ill do for deadlifts week 1 is just start very very light and go up to where i feel comfortable. I'll just work myself with them, im not worried about my maxes right now for deads. man..these two days trying them have Succckkked.
 
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There's always someone around to tell you that you're deadlifting wrongly and that twenty years ago they could have done double that weight. It took me several weeks before I felt happy with my form and, even then, it continued to improve over the following months. I think your form will evolve, too, as the weight you can lift increases.
 
I've been deadlifting for years and I'm still playing with my form. I don't regret doing deads 'wrong' in the least, imperfections and all.

The cardinal rule for back safety is 'don't lose your arch'. Start light and keep this in mind, and you'll be fine. Also, watch lots of vids on the net - you'll soon see there's not one 'right' way to do 'em. Feel free to ask any specific questions in here and we'll do what we can.
 
thanks guys, its a big help. last night i stretched it out alot and it felts muc hbetter today. I went snowboarding and it was all good, no problems at all. I might have jumped the gun saying it was a pull. But for now i will feel cofortable doing ligher weights for deads but just doing more, even though its outside of the 5x5 format. Aslong as im doing it it shouldnt be a problem.

I'm kind of rethinking my disappointment yesterday.. I feel soar in a good way and my back does not have any hurt whatsoever.. I think i was doing them well.. my friend on the other hand said his back hurt. So maybe i wasn't doing as bad as i thought. For the record i did like 2-3 sets easily of 135 then did another 2 sets of 185. I could do them, 185 was kinda tough.. It wasnt alot of strain it was just tough lifting the bar.


Oh yeah ive been meaning to ask too, on mondays is it okay to do like a backoff set if i feel up to it? I might want to until i reach my max just to get more out of it. :) What do you think about adding powershrugs or something to the routine?
 
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rmt99e said:
God..
today we tried again with the sumo technique and it didnt go to well..a trainer there criticed my friends form and another guy told me that im too young to hurt my back. i wasn't even doing that much and personally wasn't feeling strain on my back ( but yet again he can see my form better than myself.) I will say though these felt better than the other day.

and what do you know my inner upper leg hurts, i think i pulled something..great! Oh well. I guess what ill do for deadlifts week 1 is just start very very light and go up to where i feel comfortable. I'll just work myself with them, im not worried about my maxes right now for deads. man..these two days trying them have Succckkked.
Click to expand...

Your post about threw me over the edge today. (Not your fault at all!)

Realize that over 95% of people don't do deads because of fear, ego, or stupidity. Don't be part of that group. I think you have a perfect mindset with your last paragraph (see bolded). Take time on the deads and have someone that you KNOW is knowledgable about them help you if you need it.


rmt99e said:
Oh yeah ive been meaning to ask too, on mondays is it okay to do like a backoff set if i feel up to it? I might want to until i reach my max just to get more out of it. What do you think about adding powershrugs or something to the routine?
Click to expand...

On Mondays, are you asking about a backoff set for all exercises? Stick with the program for at least 2 cycles, and then start playing with it. I'm not saying the Monday backoff sets are wrong, but I am saying you really aren't sure if you know it is wrong, yet. Get some experience under your belt on the program, learn a lot from it, and tweak as your body and research suggests you should. After you've tweaked, evaluate and determine if the tweak should remain. :)
 
Re: backoffs

Don't do 'em. The mindset that you should feel beaten into the ground after a workout is tough to overcome. The thing to remember is that this is all about consistent progress. Let the weights slowly but surely go up and you will make gains longer. Down the line you likely won't feel the need to add anything, and you will be further along if you don't add anything now.
 
alright thanks for the advice, ill forget the monday backoff idea. I only wanted to do it for the first 1st,2nd,or 3rd week when im not yet at my max.

And yeah, i'm not going to give up on them. And im learning more and more to ignore the people in my gym when they say stuff. Ive heard them say some things totally wrong, its annoying.
 
I had one guy tell me that if I wanted to get strong then I should use machines and that I was wasting my time with free weights and that I'd just wear myself out with all that squatting. He also mentioned that he had no respect for Olympic athletes because they cheated all of their lifts and didn't stay on the ground.
 
yeah, and plus im younger so the older guys that think they know alot will say something. And on several occasions ive seen them give advice then another guy will come over and start arguing the advice and theyd be into it for like 10 mintues. It's stupid.
 
Just a little update, I'm on week 1 and thins are going well. Im soar as hell today :) squats and deads are going greaaat. For deads i did 12 reps 4 times. I Deff feel them. I will go to the 5x5 format for them once im vonfy and start building weights. If im working hard it shouldnt be a problem.

For the record, if i fail bench on a monday what do i do for the following friday and the monday after? Im just wondering.. would i shoot for 5reps again fri and try to throw in a backoff if up to it?
 
blut wump said:
I had one guy tell me that if I wanted to get strong then I should use machines and that I was wasting my time with free weights and that I'd just wear myself out with all that squatting. He also mentioned that he had no respect for Olympic athletes because they cheated all of their lifts and didn't stay on the ground.
Click to expand...

You have got to be kidding me. I'm speechless on both accounts. :worried:
 
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