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5x5 or HST -which is the better plan?
- Thread starter Seconds
- Start date
NJL52 said:
A. Strength and Size.
B. 5'11' 195, 38, one cycle 20 years ago (Lifting on and off most of my life, but its been mostly off recently). When I lifted seriously before, I did 6 days on 1 off (Chest/Shoulders/Tris; Legs; Back/Bis; repeat; day off; Abs/calves throughout).
C. Have read the stickys. As result, I am re-evaluating my apparently crazy routine. I just started on the "starting strength" program (week one), but I gotta tell you, I am going on utter faith here...it just doesn't seem like enough work to me.
NJL52
New member
The 5x5 is primarily a strength program with size on the side. HST is size with strength as a side effect. Make your own decision there.
As far as how advanced the HST is I'm not sure. I never delved into it, I'm an athlete and size is the last thing I want.
I'd do more reading about the HST before you made a decision to do it or not.
As far as how advanced the HST is I'm not sure. I never delved into it, I'm an athlete and size is the last thing I want.
I'd do more reading about the HST before you made a decision to do it or not.
silver_shadow
New member
which is the better plan? they are both good.
both have you increase weight in an intermediate rep range to increase strength and size (assuming you eat a caloric surplus).
IMO, HST can be done by the intermediate lifter, not just the advanced lifter.
yes, i'd imagine that the starting strength routine may be too much of a novice routine for you.
both have you increase weight in an intermediate rep range to increase strength and size (assuming you eat a caloric surplus).
IMO, HST can be done by the intermediate lifter, not just the advanced lifter.
yes, i'd imagine that the starting strength routine may be too much of a novice routine for you.
Wow. Reading all this stuff is making my head hurt. What I gather is this: Stop ingnoring the core/OL exercises, they should be the main course of any training program not an appetizer! Okay, I get it. Gonna make them my focus as I get back into shape.
What is really new to me is this emphasis on 48hs for CNS recovery. I always thought of it as "body part" recovery rather than systemic recovery. Accordingly, I used to believe that you could train every day so long as you did not focus on the same body part two days in a row. I now accept that as a false premise. Because of that, I am looking for a new routine.
I like the HST program because its more like what I was used to doing (but, like any lifter, I have a natural suspicion of the low number of sets/exercise). I think I am going to try this one and stick to it for a while.
What is really new to me is this emphasis on 48hs for CNS recovery. I always thought of it as "body part" recovery rather than systemic recovery. Accordingly, I used to believe that you could train every day so long as you did not focus on the same body part two days in a row. I now accept that as a false premise. Because of that, I am looking for a new routine.
I like the HST program because its more like what I was used to doing (but, like any lifter, I have a natural suspicion of the low number of sets/exercise). I think I am going to try this one and stick to it for a while.
deathdroprob
Banned
can someone link me the HST?
silver_shadow
New member
Seconds said:
don't that let that bit fool you. once you are doing full body workouts centred around heavy core lifts, and with an appreciable intensity (%age of 1 rep max), you'll realize that it's way more taxing then you had previously imagined. make sure you eat a good pre workout meal! you'll be sorry if you don't
@ rob: check out the training vault sticky for a link to the HST.
I really enjoy the HST program... In fact I have gained some pretty appreciable strength on higher rep maxes after the HST, which was done After I gained a lot of strength on the intermediate 5x5...
I would say the parts that "grew" the best from the programs I did, were my arms (more muscularity, and better peak), and my legs for sure and calves... and of course throughout both, because of the rowing Ive always included, my back is thick, for my size
Strengthwise... I started circa 9-10 months ago with a 8 rep max of 245 (? might have been 265) ... on my last HST cycle I did 305 for 10 (squat)
Also, I have a really hard time when I get to lower reps and am working close to or exceeding my rep max... My body functions much better in the 10/15 rep range... I enjoyed substantial strength increases while having several nagging injuries feel much better... only to be aggravated again going into 5RM.
I also do things a little different... I ran the HST after an 8 week 5x5 to get my strength back up after about a 3-4 month lay off... I ran the HST starting at 70% of max (lower than on the HST website) I also only did ONE set per exercise, except for biceps and calves... I believe those muscle groups respond best (when considering size and appearance) to constant higher rep work-less weight, and more volume) My calves and arms both say I'm correct for my body at least. I completed the 15/10/5 rep weeks.
I then took my new maxes for those lifts and went to 2 sets per exercise from 70% based on my new maxes... so basically I doubled the workload with the same weight... At the completion of my 15/10 rep weeks I was able to do two sets with the same weight I had maxed out on for one set... so I gained more strength...
Now I am in between and am doing light work for a couple weeks, circa 70-80% of max... general circuit stuff to let my body rest then I'll jump back on HST again.
I would say the parts that "grew" the best from the programs I did, were my arms (more muscularity, and better peak), and my legs for sure and calves... and of course throughout both, because of the rowing Ive always included, my back is thick, for my size
Strengthwise... I started circa 9-10 months ago with a 8 rep max of 245 (? might have been 265) ... on my last HST cycle I did 305 for 10 (squat)
Also, I have a really hard time when I get to lower reps and am working close to or exceeding my rep max... My body functions much better in the 10/15 rep range... I enjoyed substantial strength increases while having several nagging injuries feel much better... only to be aggravated again going into 5RM.
I also do things a little different... I ran the HST after an 8 week 5x5 to get my strength back up after about a 3-4 month lay off... I ran the HST starting at 70% of max (lower than on the HST website) I also only did ONE set per exercise, except for biceps and calves... I believe those muscle groups respond best (when considering size and appearance) to constant higher rep work-less weight, and more volume) My calves and arms both say I'm correct
for my body at least. I completed the 15/10/5 rep weeks.I then took my new maxes for those lifts and went to 2 sets per exercise from 70% based on my new maxes... so basically I doubled the workload with the same weight... At the completion of my 15/10 rep weeks I was able to do two sets with the same weight I had maxed out on for one set... so I gained more strength...
Now I am in between and am doing light work for a couple weeks, circa 70-80% of max... general circuit stuff to let my body rest then I'll jump back on HST again.
get 456...your plan sounds like what I should go for. Need to spend a little time doing 5x5 (to get overall body in proper shape) then focus body parts a little more using HST. Do you feel that intermediate 5x5 then HST was the right approach for a lifter with decent experience after he's been slacking for a while? I am really trying to be more cognizant of the CNS recovery factor from now on.
Seconds said:
It was for me... And I would describe myself similarly.. however previous to the 5x5, I had been doing the typical BB style routine for about 3-4 months and made great gains/fat loss... The 5x5 just brought my strength WAAAAY up.
If you are essentially untrained at this point... a year or a few years of no lifting, doing the starting program may be the best idea, then 5x5 then HST.
IMO, the HST is great, but offers the most benefit if you have some strength to go with it... I dont think it would offer a beginner any real benefit.
Its weird how regimenting your workout creates so much security... By knowing what I want to do this workout specifically, and that it is working towards an end goal of REAL increases, it gives a good sense of accomplishment when you continue acheiving those goals.
No matter what, following a solid program with proven results is important IMO... going to the gym and just tossing some weights around is almost counterproductive... and at the least will not create the body I would be looking for...
st8grad
New member
peligroso said:
Monday, Wednesday, Friday
Bench 5x5
Squats 5x5
Rows 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Chins 5x5
Monday/Thursday
Bench 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Close Grip Bench 5x5
Weighted Dips 5x5
Tuesday/Friday
Squats 5x5
Hang Cleans 5x5
Rows 5x5
Weighted Chins 5x5
Curls 3x8
The point is that the 5x5 routines should be built around core compound lifts like bench, sqauts, deads, rows and overhead press. The rest is supplemental work. You need to read the madcow 5x5 article to understand weight progression and the basics behind it. Also it tosses out the bullshit theory that each muscle group is only worked once per week.
This is just in a nutshell of course.
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