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5x5 = complex?

hammercurls

New member
im totally skullfucked when it comes to 5x5 routine, i see and read alot of variations of it

1x3
3x3
5x5
2x10

wft!

i thought it was 5x5

please elaborate!
 
It' actually really simple man, it just seems confusing at first for various reasons.


Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone's been asking me about this 5 x 5 thing im doing.... There are many variations, this is one variation of the 'true' 5 x 5 routine that MAdCow2 helped me work out (thanx a million bro). Here goes...

*********5 x 5***********
Bill Starr's 5x5 program is also a nice alternative for future use. It is an excellent program to add size and strength, over a period of 8-10 weeks.

This is slightly tweaked from Starr's original writeup:

I originally developed this tweaked variation on the 5x5 based on JohnSmith182's writeups on Meso. He is easily one of the most knowledgable strength coaches in the country so I'll paraphrase his words: This program is used by many athletes even at the most elite levels for at least part of the year. It is excellent at increasing overall strength. THE MAIN ISSUE IS THAT IS ALSO TOO GOOD AT INCREASING LEAN BODY MASS. Athletes who are close to their weight class limit often need to SEVERLY restrict their diets to avoid growing right out of their weightclass. Most of the gains appear during the final phase of the program as the body defatigues from the earlier volume phase.


Volume Phase 4 weeks - Deloading Period 1 week - Intensity Phase 4-5 weeks
PS-These first 4 weeks WILL wear your ass out if your doing it right.

M:
Squat 5x5 (3x3)
Bench 1x5 (1x3)
Row 1x5 (1x3)

W:
Squat 5x5 with 15-20% less than Monday (drop this lift)
Deadlift 5x5 (3x3)
Military 5x5 (3x3)
Pullups 5x5 (3x3)

F:
Squat 1x5 (1x3)
Bench 5x5 (3x3)
Row 5x5 (3x3)

Volume Phase - Weeks 1-4:
I use 5 sets of 5 reps at working weight standard (I don't count warmups) increasing the weight week to week and trying to set records in weeks 3 and 4. I try to focus on acceleration during these days. For exercises which I do twice a week I have a separate day which I perform a single set of 5 reps with the goal of setting records on the 3rd and 4th week for my best set of 5. For the squat I use Wednesday and utilize between 10-20% less than my working weight on the Monday workout - no goals for this. The main point here is the volume. Don't start the weights too high. Lower the weight if need be but get the sets and reps in - except where you are setting records. I also do a fair amount of warmups to keep my volume decently high on the single sets of 5 reps days.

Deloading Week - Week 5:
On week 5 DROP THE WEDNESDAT SQUAT WORKOUT, begin using the Intensity set/rep scheme (in parentheses), and keep the weight the same as your last week in the Volume Phase.

Intensity Phase - Week 6-10:
Everything is the same principal except that you use 3x3 and 1x3 setting records on week 9 and 10 (week 4 and 5 of this phase, still using rep scheme in parentheses). No Wednesday squatting. The important aspect of this phase is the weight increases. If you are so burned out that you need an extra day here and there that's okay. If you can't do all the work that's okay too. Just keep increasing the weight week to week.

Other Tweaks: You can be a little creative. I'm actually using this program right now but what I did was substitute inclines for military presses and I performed high pulls for the Volume phase and switched to the Sumo dead for the deloading and intensity phase. This allowed me to perform a bit of assistance work for my shoulders and rotator cuff as well as my quads. Keep in mind that this workout takes it's toll so don't throw in all kinds of garbage. I found that with the non-airconditioned gym I trained at the assistance work was almost non-existant in week 3 and 4. I also like to focus on speed on the 5x5 days. If you want to use bands and chains with this program those are the days to incorporate them.

Thoughts: It is very simple and incredibly effective. I think incorporating a focus on speed is important and this variation on the 5x5 allows one to fit it in relatively seamlessly as well as swap exercises and factor in any assistance work. One point - if you are squatting 3x per week in the volume phase and deadlifting one time throughout the whole program don't count on doing any major assistance work - throw in some occasional arm crap and some midsection work and that's it. The volume phase will also bury you if you run it too long and are an experienced lifter. The major problem people have with the workout is that they start too high in weight and can't successfully ramp up with proper volume. Beginning lifters might run a longer volume phase with much lighter starting weight than an experienced lifter who knows his strength and can regulate his intensity properly.


Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DELOADING VARIATIONS 2X vs. 3X IN THE 3X3 PORTION:

This is the 2x per week variation on the 3x3 deload. In all honesty it's better than mine in several respects.

1) It completely takes away judgement from the trainee and this is key because most people who are using this for the first time have no clue and don't have someone really knowledgable monitoring them.

2) Inadequately deloading totally fucks this workout so if you screw up in your judgement or your ability to set weights in the 3 day I use - you blow it all. For someone who's been through this program or a similar dual factor program a few times and has some good training capacity accrued from years in the gym, it's no big deal to monitor yourself and be decently accurate but someone who isn't used to this type of training and doesn't have a detailed log to allow him to properly judge his tollerances and requirements runs the risk of just blowing himself out of the water.

2x Deload Protocol curtesy of Freddy at Meso:

Source post here: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/show...php?t=134233577


Quote:
Switch to 3x3 of three, and drop the Friday workout altogether.

Your workout should look like this:

Monday:
Oly squats: 3x3
Bench: 3x3
Rows: 3x3

Wednesday (or move this workout to Thursday if you'd like, I usually did)
Light Oly Squats (70% of monday): 3x3
Deadlifts: 3x3
Military Press: 3x3
Chins:3x3

If you get all 9 reps, go up 5-10 pounds the following week. Do this for about 3-4 weeks.
 
GhettoStudMuffin said:
It' actually really simple man, it just seems confusing at first for various reasons.


Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone's been asking me about this 5 x 5 thing im doing.... There are many variations, this is one variation of the 'true' 5 x 5 routine that MAdCow2 helped me work out (thanx a million bro). Here goes...

*********5 x 5***********
Bill Starr's 5x5 program is also a nice alternative for future use. It is an excellent program to add size and strength, over a period of 8-10 weeks.

This is slightly tweaked from Starr's original writeup:

I originally developed this tweaked variation on the 5x5 based on JohnSmith182's writeups on Meso. He is easily one of the most knowledgable strength coaches in the country so I'll paraphrase his words: This program is used by many athletes even at the most elite levels for at least part of the year. It is excellent at increasing overall strength. THE MAIN ISSUE IS THAT IS ALSO TOO GOOD AT INCREASING LEAN BODY MASS. Athletes who are close to their weight class limit often need to SEVERLY restrict their diets to avoid growing right out of their weightclass. Most of the gains appear during the final phase of the program as the body defatigues from the earlier volume phase.


Volume Phase 4 weeks - Deloading Period 1 week - Intensity Phase 4-5 weeks
PS-These first 4 weeks WILL wear your ass out if your doing it right.

M:
Squat 5x5 (3x3)
Bench 1x5 (1x3)
Row 1x5 (1x3)

W:
Squat 5x5 with 15-20% less than Monday (drop this lift)
Deadlift 5x5 (3x3)
Military 5x5 (3x3)
Pullups 5x5 (3x3)

F:
Squat 1x5 (1x3)
Bench 5x5 (3x3)
Row 5x5 (3x3)

Volume Phase - Weeks 1-4:
I use 5 sets of 5 reps at working weight standard (I don't count warmups) increasing the weight week to week and trying to set records in weeks 3 and 4. I try to focus on acceleration during these days. For exercises which I do twice a week I have a separate day which I perform a single set of 5 reps with the goal of setting records on the 3rd and 4th week for my best set of 5. For the squat I use Wednesday and utilize between 10-20% less than my working weight on the Monday workout - no goals for this. The main point here is the volume. Don't start the weights too high. Lower the weight if need be but get the sets and reps in - except where you are setting records. I also do a fair amount of warmups to keep my volume decently high on the single sets of 5 reps days.

Deloading Week - Week 5:
On week 5 DROP THE WEDNESDAT SQUAT WORKOUT, begin using the Intensity set/rep scheme (in parentheses), and keep the weight the same as your last week in the Volume Phase.

Intensity Phase - Week 6-10:
Everything is the same principal except that you use 3x3 and 1x3 setting records on week 9 and 10 (week 4 and 5 of this phase, still using rep scheme in parentheses). No Wednesday squatting. The important aspect of this phase is the weight increases. If you are so burned out that you need an extra day here and there that's okay. If you can't do all the work that's okay too. Just keep increasing the weight week to week.

Other Tweaks: You can be a little creative. I'm actually using this program right now but what I did was substitute inclines for military presses and I performed high pulls for the Volume phase and switched to the Sumo dead for the deloading and intensity phase. This allowed me to perform a bit of assistance work for my shoulders and rotator cuff as well as my quads. Keep in mind that this workout takes it's toll so don't throw in all kinds of garbage. I found that with the non-airconditioned gym I trained at the assistance work was almost non-existant in week 3 and 4. I also like to focus on speed on the 5x5 days. If you want to use bands and chains with this program those are the days to incorporate them.

Thoughts: It is very simple and incredibly effective. I think incorporating a focus on speed is important and this variation on the 5x5 allows one to fit it in relatively seamlessly as well as swap exercises and factor in any assistance work. One point - if you are squatting 3x per week in the volume phase and deadlifting one time throughout the whole program don't count on doing any major assistance work - throw in some occasional arm crap and some midsection work and that's it. The volume phase will also bury you if you run it too long and are an experienced lifter. The major problem people have with the workout is that they start too high in weight and can't successfully ramp up with proper volume. Beginning lifters might run a longer volume phase with much lighter starting weight than an experienced lifter who knows his strength and can regulate his intensity properly.


Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DELOADING VARIATIONS 2X vs. 3X IN THE 3X3 PORTION:

This is the 2x per week variation on the 3x3 deload. In all honesty it's better than mine in several respects.

1) It completely takes away judgement from the trainee and this is key because most people who are using this for the first time have no clue and don't have someone really knowledgable monitoring them.

2) Inadequately deloading totally fucks this workout so if you screw up in your judgement or your ability to set weights in the 3 day I use - you blow it all. For someone who's been through this program or a similar dual factor program a few times and has some good training capacity accrued from years in the gym, it's no big deal to monitor yourself and be decently accurate but someone who isn't used to this type of training and doesn't have a detailed log to allow him to properly judge his tollerances and requirements runs the risk of just blowing himself out of the water.

2x Deload Protocol curtesy of Freddy at Meso:

Source post here: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/show...php?t=134233577


Quote:
Switch to 3x3 of three, and drop the Friday workout altogether.

Your workout should look like this:

Monday:
Oly squats: 3x3
Bench: 3x3
Rows: 3x3

Wednesday (or move this workout to Thursday if you'd like, I usually did)
Light Oly Squats (70% of monday): 3x3
Deadlifts: 3x3
Military Press: 3x3
Chins:3x3

If you get all 9 reps, go up 5-10 pounds the following week. Do this for about 3-4 weeks.

What is the goal of this program?
 
hammercurls said:
im totally skullfucked when it comes to 5x5 routine, i see and read alot of variations of it

1x3
3x3
5x5
2x10

wft!

i thought it was 5x5

please elaborate!
Your confusion comes from the fact that there are two programs used in this forum that are referred to as 5x5. I imagine that you were looking at the sticky thread which is a 3 day split with the powerlifts performed in 5x5 fashion and the other lifts performed for higher reps.

The above post from Ghettostudmuffin (hilarious name) and the link here http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215 refer to the other 5x5 which is a variation of the famous one originally attributed to Bill Starr in the 1970's.
 
i dont know... lol

im just know im going to the gym in 15mins... and i dont want to get confused with my normal routine
 
GrandMaster said:
i dont know... lol

im just know im going to the gym in 15mins... and i dont want to get confused with my normal routine
The Bill Starr based 5x5 program requires planning for forethought, if you have 15 minutes you should put it off until you understand it better - read through the link I provided above, tons of info.

That said, 5x5 is a reasonable set/rep scheme but there are many other factors in the equation so yes and no.
 
So, the link I provided has a good post with 3 linked explanations on dual factor theory. Basically the first phase is overtraining - and this is a desireable thing as it is the stimulus that sends a signal to your body of an extended period of upward scaling required workload that is beyond it's current recovery capacity. A recovery deficit is accrued during this period. In the 2nd 3x3 period (and designated deloading week), volume is slashed considerably as is frequency if you follow the 2x per week method while intensity is modestly increased. This allows the body to recover and adapt to the stimulus. This is why you have to be careful with your weight selection in Phase I and Phase II so you can scale upward to records in the final weeks. If you begin at your limit you have no where to go and likely can't maintain the pace for any more than a couple weeks.

In a nutshell - read everything in that link. Select your starting weights carefully (probably the hardest for someone who has never done something like this before but is super easy the 2nd time around) and then just follow the program and put your faith in some of the better coaching talent that has graced the planet. But definitely read the entire thread and the pertinent linked topics. Dual factor theory is pretty much how the whole world trains its athletes, if it seems very different it is not because it is weird or someone's crazy idea (we are talking near universal consensus over a long time period here) but simply that typical BBing and gymrat programs are far far behind the times when it comes to training (stimulus) yet spend an overwhelming amount of energy on drugs and diet (response). Plenty of easy to find info out there: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=364685 Post 3 here has a decent quick list in it.
 
LeanforLife said:
What is the goal of this program?
Increased hypertrophy and strength. Many athletes who are weight class restricted and close to a limit are forced to avoid it or undergo a massive calorie restriction to avoid putting on too much weight. For a BBer it's great because I honestly don't know of a program that provides more hypertrophy and as long as someone isn't adverse to getting stronger in the process it's a no brainer.
 
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