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2nd cylce

A

austino123

New member
My first cycle a year ago was...

weeks 1-4 Dianobol 10 mgs
weeks 1-12 Test E 400 mgs

I had good mass gains and didn't experience much bloat once I was off the Dianabol. I didnn't experience any sides besides a little bloating...

As of now my body comp is 205lbs at 15% bf.

On hand for my 2nd cycle...

30 ml Test E 250mg/ml
10 ml Tren A 200mg/ml

Plenty of Nolv and Clomid for PCT

I would like to gain muscle mass while staying lean. I am looking for recommended dosages and/or additions? I have seen aromasin being used during this type of cycle, but I don't know why it is used or if I should be using it considering I will be taking fairly low dosages of Tren...
 
Don't use nolva for pct.. especially with a 19nor like tren.. what are you using on cycle with the tren.. your PCT needs work man

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
Everything needs work. It sounds to me like you really don't know what you are doing and that can get you in some serious trouble with tren. My suggestion is put the stuff away and do some research. If you're going to run something as powerful and complicated as tren, you should be able to set up your own cycle with the proper ancillaries, know what those ancillaries do, know what the compounds your running do and what you should do if a problem arises. If you can't do that than I don't feel you're ready my friend. There's been a lot of people lately with lactating issues, gyno and limp dick. All stim from running cycles before they're ready and not knowing how to keep their hormones in check. It's great to ask questions to learn but in this case you're asking us to spoon feed you. With tren, or any 19-nor, that's a bad idea. Like mentioned above, nolva and 19-nors don't mix. It can actually antagonize prolactin and cause you trouble. You don't want to start breast feeding the neighborhood kids do you?


When we do right nobody remembers, when we do wrong nobody forgets. H.A.M.C

Support your local 81
AFFA Red and White
 
I'd like to read more about using tren and test on cycle...do either of you know of a good source of information for using these two? and putting together a good PCT, that isn't saturated with a marketing motive?
 
austino123 said:
I'd like to read more about using tren and test on cycle...do either of you know of a good source of information for using these two? and putting together a good PCT, that isn't saturated with a marketing motive?
Click to expand...

This whole forum has a huge amount of info on how to run proper cycles. Do a search and look at all the tren cycles people have needed help in the past with and read the threads, it will provide you with all the information you need. You just need to not rush this and put time into your research.
 
From what I gathered from needto's steroids 101 is that I should have adex on hand and use it towards the end of the cycle to aid with sides from tren. I am ditching the nolv

It also seems hcg will be good for pct to help boost my natural test levels in between cycling and pct. My question is,would lowering the dose of test have somewhat the same effect as stopping test and starting hcg? I have a decent amount of test and would rather ween my body off with that rather than buying more ancillaries...money is tight these days

I have a cheap easy access to clomid so in would prefer to use this for pct as well.

This I a tentative cycle I think will best suit my needs for lean mass gain...

1-12 Test E 400mgs week
5-10 Tren A 75mgs eod
5-18Adex 12.5 per day

PCT
14-18 clomid 40 mgs per week


Criticize away....
 
Adex won't help you with prolactin side which are caused by tren.. estrogen makes your nips puffy, prolactin can make your nips leak.. your not ready for tren if you don't know this sort of stuff man

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
bonacris said:
Adex won't help you with prolactin side which are caused by tren.. estrogen makes your nips puffy, prolactin can make your nips leak.. your not ready for tren if you don't know this sort of stuff man

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

That's what letro is for, correct?

28 age
205 lbs
6'
15% bf
 
Letro is a very powerful AI for estrogen but will do nothing for prolactin..

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
Keep it simple, test only @ 500 mg's/week...

Search this site for PCT...

~EZ
 
EZ_E said:
Keep it simple, test only @ 500 mg's/week...

Search this site for PCT...

~EZ
Click to expand...

Some people here make a good point bro. I would stick to test this cycle until you fully understand how tren works and the sides that come with it, and how to control prolactin. I have seen a few threads this month of people getting fucked by tren sides.
 
austino123 said:
I liked the test cycle I did but I wanted to step up my game a little on this cycle and add some hardness to my mass.
Click to expand...

Customized diet and training can do that...

MAYYYYYYYYYYYYBE finish with Var or Winny, but then you're going to need more on cycle supps....

~EZ
 
EZ_E said:
Customized diet and training can do that...

MAYYYYYYYYYYYYBE finish with Var or Winny, but then you're going to need more on cycle supps....

~EZ
Click to expand...

I'm listening...the only thing I ask you to refrain from suggesting these pct formulas that everyone pushes on here. Although the product may work, there has to be a better solution to pct besides everything from one store...I would like to keep a broad aspect on how I acquire my pct.

My goal is to understand pct and on cycle ancillaries. like I have said, I have read through needto's steroids 101 and have been on this forum since 2007. I have read many posts but there is still many aspects of cycles I don't fully understand
 
I was looking my vials over and I realized that I have Tren E and not Tren A... What is the main difference between the two, how long the esters last in the body? After more research it seems like Tren will not be part of my cycle unless I can get more details about what AI's I will need. I found this thread http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/tren-handbook-must-read-553499.html which was ok with helping me understand, but a more direct approach to what I will need would be optimal.

I have looked into masteron and I may go that route after I do some more research...
 
austino123 said:
How often would each injection be? From what I gather EOD and I can do both at the same time...
Click to expand...

Depends on the ester you choose. Test prop and mast prop both should be ed or eod test e or c and mast e twice a week.


When we do right nobody remembers, when we do wrong nobody forgets. H.A.M.C

Support your local 81
AFFA Red and White
 
Sherk said:
Depends on the ester you choose. Test prop and mast prop both should be ed or eod test e or c and mast e twice a week.


When we do right nobody remembers, when we do wrong nobody forgets. H.A.M.C

Support your local 81
AFFA Red and White
Click to expand...


So far my research has brought me to this...

I should inject every 3rd day for optimal regulation of blood levels:

week 1-12 125 mgs Test E
week 4-12 75 mgs Tren E

I would need to have caber and adex on hand for the possibility of prolactin and estrogen sides
doses:
cabergoline .25-.5 mgs/day
arimidex .25 mgs/day

I am unsure of when I should take these doses. when I start to have sides or immediately as a precaution?



PCT

I am unsure of how much and when HCG should be taken to boost my natural testosterone. I know its at the end of the cycle and the first week or two of PCT.

.25 mgs per day of clomid about two weeks after last cycle injection for 4 weeks.

Let's hear some more input
 
austino123 said:
So far my research has brought me to this...

I should inject every 3rd day for optimal regulation of blood levels:

week 1-12 125 mgs Test E
week 4-12 75 mgs Tren E

I would need to have caber and adex on hand for the possibility of prolactin and estrogen sides
doses:
cabergoline .25-.5 mgs/day
arimidex .25 mgs/day

I am unsure of when I should take these doses. when I start to have sides or immediately as a precaution?



PCT

I am unsure of how much and when HCG should be taken to boost my natural testosterone. I know its at the end of the cycle and the first week or two of PCT.

.25 mgs per day of clomid about two weeks after last cycle injection for 4 weeks.

Let's hear some more input
Click to expand...

Ok you've done a little more research but you still don't understand. Especially with dosages and what to put where. So I will help you clarify. Hcg is not for pct, it's run before pct to kickstart the hpta. Clomid ran at 25 mg day during pct is effective. However without any other support supps your gonna feel like an emotional wreck. The recovery will take a little longer also. The support supps improve mood and sense of well being. They also raise natural test levels, reduce estrogen, lower shbg, increase free test, and detoxify your system. So if that doesn't sound like a good idea to you then don't use them. If your concerned about money wait until you see how much caber costs. Even legitimate research caber is pricey, pharma grade is ridiculous. If your gonna run tren you need more. One vial isn't enough to run a solid dose. The minimum dose of tren e I'd suggest is 300 mg week, that's 1 1/2 ml a week. For 10 weeks that's 15 ml. On tren you will get high bp for that I take n2guard. If you only run mast and test then I suggest running both at 400 mg week. I think I covered most of it if there's anything else let me know.


Use code joeb15 for 10% of at Ntbm.

Ntbm support number
tel:1-631-443-4461

Hit this link up for cutting edge transdermals.

http://forum-special-offer.com/dave-joeblow12345-elitefitness

Use the codes at ruthless supps for discounts.

NEEDTO51 $50 off any item
NEEDTO34 Buy 2 get 1 free phytoserms
NEEDTO24 Buy 2 get 1 free transaderm

http://needtobuildmuscle.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2972&d=1361062371
 
You don't have enough tren and aren't running it long enough. Tren e is a long eater.. you should run ace instead so you can back off if sides get too much and it will clear the system quicker.. Clomid only isn't gonna help you recover, especially from cycle as suppressive as this..

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
Tren E is worse than Tren Ace if its a first time running tren because it stays in the body lot longer. But you shouldnt even be hitting tren on a second cycle anyhow. Hardness and low bodyfat and all that comes from diet and training primarily.
 
Thanks for the input guys.

As disappointed as I am I don't think I'll be using tren. I can wait until next year for a cycle like this.

Somebody has mentioned masteron in an earlier post. So far my search has lead me to believe this is the way to go. Because of masterons natural AI properties it mixes very well with the test e that I have.

Thinking

Week 1-10 test e 400mg
Week 1-10 masteron e 400mgs

Adex on hand but it sounds like I shouldn't need it
HCG to boost natty test immediately after cycle. Dosages?

And for PCT clomid and ?

Also i have a question about the support supps almost everyone uses on this forum; can I get the same supps (possibly cheaper) at a different site? The reason why I ask is because if the stuff works and has been working why isn't there someone else offering the same product?
 
The sheer fact that you are willing to listen to advice from the people here that know there shit and are willing to back off using tren shows a lot more common sense than most who come here looking for help. Keep that atttitude and you'll be on the right path.

With those two compounds, aromasin 12.5 mg eod is far better option than adex. You'll also want HCGenerate and a few other things. Look through any thread where Dylan has recommended a cycle and use the exact PCT he recommends if you want the best results.
 
Masteron at 15% BF is not really a good idea IMO. You would want to get down to around 10% first...so you could really get the gains you want to see from it.

For your goals of hardness and lean mass gains, you could go with a T-Bol kicker and/or Var finisher.
 
notjake11 said:
The sheer fact that you are willing to listen to advice from the people here that know there shit and are willing to back off using tren shows a lot more common sense than most who come here looking for help. Keep that atttitude and you'll be on the right path.

With those two compounds, aromasin 12.5 mg eod is far better option than adex. You'll also want HCGenerate and a few other things. Look through any thread where Dylan has recommended a cycle and use the exact PCT he recommends if you want the best results.
Click to expand...

How do I find the Dylan cycle threads you are referring to? I tried a search but it comes back with way too much erroneous info...
 
Look for his thread Dylan gemelli carved from ice.. its the 1st post where he mentions his PCT

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
bonacris said:
Look for his thread Dylan gemelli carved from ice.. its the 1st post where he mentions his PCT

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

austino123 said:
I'm listening...the only thing I ask you to refrain from suggesting these pct formulas that everyone pushes on here. Although the product may work, there has to be a better solution to pct besides everything from one store...I would like to keep a broad aspect on how I acquire my pct.
Click to expand...


^^^I don't think he's going to like Dylan's PCT lol...

And I'm not a rep or affiliated at all, but I honestly don't think there is a better solution. Take Clomid and Nolva and feel like shit, have a terrible recovery, and lose some gains...or feel great during PCT and hold or even make more gains...up to you. There is a reason everyone, not just the mods and reps, suggests it.
 
I really don't care what he does.. he can take nolva and Clomid if he likes but I would much rather keep my gains and feel great on PCT.. hut if he like feeling like an emotional bitch and losing a lot of his gains then he can.. I'm not a rep for the company either but I've tun both types of PCT and the one Dylan mentions definitely made me feel great

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
Isn't there anything else available from a different site for pct? It's all anyone uses on this forum. They may be good products, i havent tried them, but it's monopolizing this forum.
 
Rockwilder said:
^^^I don't think he's going to like Dylan's PCT lol...

And I'm not a rep or affiliated at all, but I honestly don't think there is a better solution. Take Clomid and Nolva and feel like shit, have a terrible recovery, and lose some gains...or feel great during PCT and hold or even make more gains...up to you. There is a reason everyone, not just the mods and reps, suggests it.
Click to expand...

You called it lol. I may give in and try the stuff...
 
A lot of forums still recommend nolva and Clomid.. blood work has shown these products to be more effective than nolva and clomid in PCT.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
Just trying to see if anyone else in this world is doing anything else for PCT. if not these products are one hell of a secret.
 
I completely understand. I was sceptical when I 1st joined this forum.. by all means look around and make up your own mind..

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
austino123 said:
Just trying to see if anyone else in this world is doing anything else for PCT. if not these products are one hell of a secret.
Click to expand...

Of course they are. A lot of people are still doing the nolva clomid pct and some even throw in hcg like you. Wanted to. The result is they lose a good amount of their gains, usually have libido issues after pct, and more often then not end up right where they started or worst. This is obviously a huge blow to Their ego and they end up jumping right back on within weeks after pct.


Use code joeb15 for 10% of at Ntbm.

Ntbm support number
tel:1-631-443-4461

Hit this link up for cutting edge transdermals.

http://forum-special-offer.com/dave-joeblow12345-elitefitness

Use the codes at ruthless supps for discounts.

NEEDTO51 $50 off any item
NEEDTO34 Buy 2 get 1 free phytoserms
NEEDTO24 Buy 2 get 1 free transaderm

http://needtobuildmuscle.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2972&d=1361062371
 
bonacris said:
A lot of forums still recommend nolva and Clomid.. blood work has shown these products to be more effective than nolva and clomid in PCT.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

BTW where can I find the results/discussions about the blood work being better with needto.com products?
 
austino123 said:
BTW where can I find the results/discussions about the blood work being better with needto.com products?
Click to expand...

You might need to Pm nelson, needto, and maybe stevemi.. I know I've seen posts from them talking about blood work.. they might be to put you in the right direction.. glad your taking this seriously and doing plenty of research :)

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
austino123 said:
I'm listening...the only thing I ask you to refrain from suggesting these pct formulas that everyone pushes on here. Although the product may work, there has to be a better solution to pct besides everything from one store...I would like to keep a broad aspect on how I acquire my pct.

My goal is to understand pct and on cycle ancillaries. like I have said, I have read through needto's steroids 101 and have been on this forum since 2007. I have read many posts but there is still many aspects of cycles I don't fully understand
Click to expand...

Then I got nothin'

~EZ
 
joeblow12345 said:
Of course they are. A lot of people are still doing the nolva clomid pct and some even throw in hcg like you. Wanted to. The result is they lose a good amount of their gains, usually have libido issues after pct, and more often then not end up right where they started or worst. This is obviously a huge blow to Their ego and they end up jumping right back on within weeks after pct.


Use code joeb15 for 10% of at Ntbm.

Ntbm support number
tel:1-631-443-4461

Hit this link up for cutting edge transdermals.

http://forum-special-offer.com/dave-joeblow12345-elitefitness

Use the codes at ruthless supps for discounts.

NEEDTO51 $50 off any item
NEEDTO34 Buy 2 get 1 free phytoserms
NEEDTO24 Buy 2 get 1 free transaderm

http://needtobuildmuscle.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2972&d=1361062371
Click to expand...

What type of PCT would you recommend for this type of cycle (mast e & test e)...? Repos sing HCG with HCGenerate? Enlighten me...
 
austino123 said:
What type of PCT would you recommend for this type of cycle (mast e & test e)...? Repos sing HCG with HCGenerate? Enlighten me...
Click to expand...

For a mast and test e cycle I'd run it like this.

1-12 test e 500 mg week
1-12 mast e 400 mg week
1-12 adex 0.5 mg as needed
6-10 hcgenerate
10-14 hcg 1000-2000 ius week

Pct 14-18
Clomid 25 mg day
Post cycle/ unleashed combo
Daa
Forma or an ai of your choice

Optional 18-22-bridge from Ntbm

That pct is fairly cheap at about $100 without the forma. There is also a discount code in my sig for 10% off and free shipping. The bridge is on sale right now along with hcgenerate. Adex, clomid, and hcg are dirt cheap. Like others have said, mast works a lot better in lower bf so I suggest you hit the diet and cardio hard for a month or two prior to starting. I also suggest using a fat burner to curb appetite and give you a little boost. N2burn is very good and its cheap so I suggest that. I also understand where your coming from with saving money. Times are tough right now for a lot of people and I'm always trying to save a buck myself. That's why I look for sales and discounts and take advantage when they are available and stock up. But don't jump into a cycle until you have all your ducks on a row. So if you have to postpone it a few weeks then so be it. There's no point in going into a cycle unprepared, and losing all your gains and wasting your time and money.


Use code joeb15 for 10% of at Ntbm.

Ntbm support number
tel:1-631-443-4461

Hit this link up for cutting edge transdermals.

http://forum-special-offer.com/dave-joeblow12345-elitefitness

Use the codes at ruthless supps for discounts.

NEEDTO51 $50 off any item
NEEDTO34 Buy 2 get 1 free phytoserms
NEEDTO24 Buy 2 get 1 free transaderm

http://needtobuildmuscle.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2972&d=1361062371
 
joeblow12345 said:
For a mast and test e cycle I'd run it like this.

1-12 test e 500 mg week
1-12 mast e 400 mg week
1-12 adex 0.5 mg as needed
6-10 hcgenerate
10-14 hcg 1000-2000 ius week

Pct 14-18
Clomid 25 mg day
Post cycle/ unleashed combo
Daa
Forma or an ai of your choice

Optional 18-22-bridge from Ntbm



That pct is fairly cheap at about $100 without the forma. There is also a discount code in my sig for 10% off and free shipping. The bridge is on sale right now along with hcgenerate. Adex, clomid, and hcg are dirt cheap. Like others have said, mast works a lot better in lower bf so I suggest you hit the diet and cardio hard for a month or two prior to starting. I also suggest using a fat burner to curb appetite and give you a little boost. N2burn is very good and its cheap so I suggest that. I also understand where your coming from with saving money. Times are tough right now for a lot of people and I'm always trying to save a buck myself. That's why I look for sales and discounts and take advantage when they are available and stock up. But don't jump into a cycle until you have all your ducks on a row. So if you have to postpone it a few weeks then so be it. There's no point in going into a cycle unprepared, and losing all your gains and wasting your time and money.


Use code joeb15 for 10% of at Ntbm.

Ntbm support number
tel:1-631-443-4461

Hit this link up for cutting edge transdermals.

http://forum-special-offer.com/dave-joeblow12345-elitefitness

Use the codes at ruthless supps for discounts.

NEEDTO51 $50 off any item
NEEDTO34 Buy 2 get 1 free phytoserms
NEEDTO24 Buy 2 get 1 free transaderm

http://needtobuildmuscle.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2972&d=1361062371
Click to expand...

From my research the daa is spot on but I think I'm going to substitute just Trimethylglycine for the unleashed, milk thistle for the Post Cycle and Fadogia Agrestis for HCGen, as these seem to be the acting ingediants. (if anyone would like to clarify go right ahead im interested to hear your thoughts)

Lets get this thread going...
 
I'm not a chemist so I don't know which ingredients are the most effective and how to prepare the compounds. I just know from my own experience the Ntbm products do what they are supposed to do. The post cycle cleanses the body after a cycle, unleashed drives my libido through the roof, and hcgenerate makes my balls plump. I am also a firm believer that if its not broke don't fix it. The current formulas work great so I have no need to cook up my own version. Ntbm spends a lot of time and money developing these products to make them the best they can. They also offer regular discounts like the code in my sig, free shipping, and a money back guarantee. You also get the benefit of coming on ef and getting free advice on how to get the most out of the products. I know that most companies don't offer any of that, let alone being able to get your money back if your unhappy. So why bother wasting your money on inferior products, and companies that don't offer the same kind of customer service?
 
If you cant look at my rests as well as all the people im recommending this protocol to and the kind of results they are having as opposed to an outdated pct then i dont know what to tell you bro... Im not going to lose sleep if you run a shitty pct... Im just here to help
 
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