nolva clomid or both?

[maxspeed96ct]

Which one do you prefer.

I used clomid on my last cycle for 3 weeks PCT. Worked good.

Which one do you guys think is better for PCT (also considering the use of HCG )

I was also wondering if theres any benifits to using clomid or nolva mid-cyle , this way the crash would be as bad after the cycle ?

 

[hesnobradpitt]

I use both it maybe over kill but recovery is good.
Brad.

 

[solidspine]

HGC & Nolvadex,

I don't like the sides with clomid.

 

[pitbullrocco]

literature says both together will make for better recovery.

since both compounds essentially just block estrogen from forming or binding, that could be beneficial during cycle. there are better AI's to choose from however.

hcg works on a different axis and more directly stimulates test production, so including it would even be better. at low doses of course.

 

[xrsist]

never used nolva. i pulled up fine after first cycle with clomid, will use again

 

[Slyder190]

Both here.

 

[Mac173]

literature says both together will make for better recovery.

since both compounds essentially just block estrogen from forming or binding, that could be beneficial during cycle. there are better AI's to choose from however.

hcg works on a different axis and more directly stimulates test production, so including it would even be better. at low doses of course.

They are not AI's. They are SERM's.

 

[Mac173]

Both

 

[macrophage69alpha]

there really is no evidence that nolva + clomid is better than clomid alone. front ended use might have some priming effect.

 

[Cauliflower Ear]

i thought that with clomid the HTPA can start up again...but with nolva it can't?
so that would make clomid better

 

[ALIN]

Which one do you prefer.

I used clomid on my last cycle for 3 weeks PCT. Worked good.

Which one do you guys think is better for PCT (also considering the use of HCG )

I was also wondering if theres any benifits to using clomid or nolva mid-cyle , this way the crash would be as bad after the cycle ?

Both for PCT IMO.

 

[Mr.X]

Which one do you prefer.

I used clomid on my last cycle for 3 weeks PCT. Worked good.

Which one do you guys think is better for PCT (also considering the use of HCG )

I was also wondering if theres any benifits to using clomid or nolva mid-cyle , this way the crash would be as bad after the cycle ?

Both....nolvadex+clomid+IGF-1+arimidex = great PCT

 

[Nelson Montana]

Interesting to see how things have changed since 2007. Back then guys were recommending both -- which is, of course, pointless. Today, guys are using neither and getting much better results.

 

[SouthernLord]

Interesting to see how things have changed since 2007. Back then guys were recommending both -- which is, of course, pointless. Today, guys are using neither and getting much better results.

I know otc pcts are all the rage here...... What's wrong with using both Nolvadex and Clomid for PCT? To my understanding (which might not matter to anyone since I don't cycle aas) is that the one of the only documented clinical post cycle therapy used a combination of Clomid, Nolvadex and HCG. All were used after the cessation of aas. If this is proven to work in a clinical setting and is documented why risk your recovery to unproven otc products?

 

[Nelson Montana]

I know otc pcts are all the rage here...... What's wrong with using both Nolvadex and Clomid for PCT? To my understanding (which might not matter to anyone since I don't cycle aas) is that the one of the only documented clinical post cycle therapy used a combination of Clomid, Nolvadex and HCG. All were used after the cessation of aas. If this is proven to work in a clinical setting and is documented why risk your recovery to unproven otc products?

A combination of both is proven to work with clinical studies? Not really.

 

[SouthernLord]

A combination of both is proven to work with clinical studies? Not really.

[81] Hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis normalization protocol after androgen treatment

Also maybe check out Anabolics 09. Bill has a nice write up about this.

 

[Nelson Montana]

[81] Hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis normalization protocol after androgen treatment

Also maybe check out Anabolics 09. Bill has a nice write up about this.

As is the case with every other study of this type, it is innherently flawed on two counts.

One; the increase in testosterone was due to the HCG

And Two. There are no numbers taken 2 months after cessation of treatment -- which would show the true effects of the treatment.

 

[SouthernLord]

As is the case with every other study of this type, it is innherently flawed on two counts.

One; the increase in testosterone was due to the HCG

And Two. There are no numbers taken 2 months after cessation of treatment -- which would show the true effects of the treatment.

They ran the HCG for 16 days post cycle. The numbers were taken 45 days post cycle.

Why not just run HCG only for PCT?

Where are the documented results from all these successful otc pcts everyone on here talks so highly about?

 

[Nelson Montana]

They ran the HCG for 16 days post cycle.

..........................................................

Right. And the numbers when "on" were what were reported.

.............................................................


The numbers were taken 45 days post cycle.
..................................................

That's post TESTOSTERONE treatment -- NOT "PCT" treatment. There was a second number taken but they didn;t say how long it was after cessation of use, but T level dropped over a thousand points.


..........................................................................................

Why not just run HCG only for PCT?

..............................................................



It certainly wouldn't be any worse than running it with Clomid. However, HCG only acts as a boost. You still need to have the body be supported and you still need to keep estrogen in check. That's why I recommend (and this is concurred by many doctors) to use adex along with supplements.


......................................................................................

Where are the documented results from all these successful otc pcts everyone on here talks so highly about?

..................................................

Hell, there are a bunch right here bro. I think this is a pretty good place to test the effects of steroid use! You must realize, most of these studies are not done by people who understand steroids and these drugs were not designed for bodybuilders. But guys right here have used the combination drug/otc proticol that me and needto have been presenting (with slight variations) and have had blood tests taken.

Blood tests don't lie.

And libido, strength and maintaining muscle are something bodybuilders are very conscious of. That isn;t taken into account in those clinical studies. So it's your choice which ones to trust.

..

 

[SouthernLord]

..

Ok bro. You win. I really don't care either way. I likely will never use aas anyway. All I know is the medical study I posted showed a pct of HCG, Clomid, and Nolvadex was successful restoring the HPGA within 45 days after androgen cessation.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Ok bro. You win. I really don't care either way. I likely will never use aas anyway. All I know is the medical study I posted showed a pct of HCG, Clomid, and Nolvadex was successful restoring the HPGA within 45 days after androgen cessation.

Actually, no, it didn't. It showed that you can temporarily elevate T by using another drug.

 

[hesnobradpitt]

Interesting to see how things have changed since 2007. Back then guys were recommending both -- which is, of course, pointless. Today, guys are using neither and getting much better results.

So both are pointless or both together ?

Don't doctors prescribe theses to raise T because of studys , is it just to raise T not restore it.?

Brad.

 

[Nelson Montana]

So both are pointless or both together ?

Don't doctors prescribe theses to raise T because of studys , is it just to raise T not restore it.?

Brad.

REad back. I explained it. Yes, it restores it . But it doesn't cure it. The HPTA in its natural state will still be surppressed.

 

[hesnobradpitt]

REad back. I explained it. Yes, it restores it . But it doesn't cure it. The HPTA in its natural state will still be surppressed.

gotcha thnkz.

Brad