The most complete upper body single exercise

[gjohnson5]

Earlier you said that power cleans increase strength in the legs. The logical extension of that claim is that cleans would therefore improve your squat/deadlift. Of course, we know that that is not true.

I don't see how one extends a statement like building leg strength from one exercise means X amount of pounds added onto your squat. Makes no sense due to the amount of muscles in the leg and their uses. But I don't think you can say building leg strength from power movements will not add strength in squats without saying power movements don't add leg strength

But I would disagree with that if that what your trying to say

 

[lockdownd7]

I don't see how one extends a statement like building leg strength from one exercise means X amount of pounds added onto your squat. Makes no sense due to the amount of muscles in the leg and their uses. But I don't think you can say building leg strength from power movements will not add strength in squats without saying power movements don't add leg strength

But I would disagree with that if that what your trying to say

I can't tell if you're intentionally being ambiguous in your phrasing, or if you don't understand the difference between absolute strength and explosive strength.

The squat is probably the best indicator of absolute strength in the legs. Or at least, a valid indicator. That is to say, if the absolute strength of the leg muscles have increased, your squat should increase. So, if any exercise legitimately increases the absolute strength of those muscles, the squat should increase as well.

Cleans don't fit that category. Cleans can help the body learn to express absolute strength faster, to a certain extent. But they don't do much to improve absolute strength.

 

[gjohnson5]

I can't tell if you're intentionally being ambiguous in your phrasing, or if you don't understand the difference between absolute strength and explosive strength.

Personally I think it's you who need to start using correct terms
I dunno what explosive strength is because I think the correct term is Power. Secondly Power is a measure of strength and I think there's no doubt that power training will build strength over time

 

[trauck1506]

lockdownd7 - I don't really understand what you are saying because because power = strength x speed. I could agree that they don't really add muscle mass, but if you are already big or want to stay in a weight class they will definitely help. I also don't see how anyone could disagree that they don't help you coming out of the bottom on deads.

 

[SaiBoT]

All I know is that I have yet had my challenge met and I am not sitting on the swiss ball doing curls in the squat rack chalked up with gloves and grip straps.

I originally started this thread on 1/30. Here we are 7 days later, and nuttin'.

I guess the SOHP is the best overall.

I rock!

Now all participants in this thread (except me of course) must wear their lift belts and knee wraps while riding the recumbent stationary bike at the gym and while doing cable pulldowns for one week.

B-

According to Charles Poliquin the single exercise that shows how much upperbody strength there's on an individual it's the close grip inclined bench press and that's the one he uses on his structural balance tests. It basically targets all upperbody pressing muscle and isometrically targets the whole back (traps included) as a strength base, abs and stuff...

If you imagine yourself pushing an individual forward your body has almost the same alignment as the close grip inclined press. Know what I mean?

 

[bblazer]

Yes, I've read that too, and it is a great test of one's strength.

B-

 

[SouthernLord]

All I know is that I have yet had my challenge met and I am not sitting on the swiss ball doing curls in the squat rack chalked up with gloves and grip straps.

I originally started this thread on 1/30. Here we are 7 days later, and nuttin'.

I guess the SOHP is the best overall.

I rock!

Now all participants in this thread (except me of course) must wear their lift belts and knee wraps while riding the recumbent stationary bike at the gym and while doing cable pulldowns for one week.

B-

But I agreed wit you....

Does that mean I still have to wear my cut-off jean shorts, sleeveless flannel, fanny pack, and work boots, while I do concentration curls on the swiss ball in the squat rack?

 

[bblazer]

But I agreed wit you....

Does that mean I still have to wear my cut-off jean shorts, sleeveless flannel, fanny pack, and work boots, while I do concentration curls on the swiss ball in the squat rack?

Nope.

You and I get to watch those that have to. Bring a stick we can poke them with while they do it. That will make it more fun.

B-

 

[skyflyer231]

I'm gonna put my two cents on here.

I don't agree that OHP is the most COMPLETE upper body exercise. Which is what I believe is being argued here. OHP works the entire shoulder, a little bit of upper chest, the core, and lower back.

Then there is the Clean and Press. Which is technically one single exercise. It works the shoulders, chest, ENTIRE back, traps, ENTIRE core, and on the deadlift phase you are even workin the entire arms. Nothing is being missed by the clean and press.

How can an argument be made that the OHP is more complete than the Clean and Press when an OHP is essentially just a portion of the lift? Not only that but when Clean and Pressing there is more weight on the bar...

I think the TS needs to get his swiss ball ready. I'm gonna go ahead and request it to be done in the squat rack with a spotter.

 

[bblazer]

I'm gonna put my two cents on here.

I don't agree that OHP is the most COMPLETE upper body exercise. Which is what I believe is being argued here. OHP works the entire shoulder, a little bit of upper chest, the core, and lower back.

Then there is the Clean and Press. Which is technically one single exercise. It works the shoulders, chest, ENTIRE back, traps, ENTIRE core, and on the deadlift phase you are even workin the entire arms. Nothing is being missed by the clean and press.

How can an argument be made that the OHP is more complete than the Clean and Press when an OHP is essentially just a portion of the lift? Not only that but when Clean and Pressing there is more weight on the bar...

I think the TS needs to get his swiss ball ready. I'm gonna go ahead and request it to be done in the squat rack with a spotter.

You can spot me while I do curls in the squat rack anytime....

The clean and press is as close to the standing overhead press as yo can get, but its still not quite there. I would argue that by the nature of the movement the clean and press allows the momentum of the bar and body to help carry it through the pressing stage thereby limiting its affect. In the SOHP all the trunk and hip muscles must stabilize the body, while the force being generated through the arms, shoulders, back and chest get the bar up.

Do this exercise seated, and you kill most of its efficacy.

B-