Increasing the pectoral "split"

[bblazer]

We have all seen men who have a "dent" chest where the sternum actually looks dented as if someone punched it and it never poped back out. In my case I have almost the reverse - a very pronounced sternum.

Although, I am not a BBer I have always wanted to increase or create a more profound split between my pecs to compensate. After doing some research it seems that a close grip bench press may be the answer.

That said, I was hoping to hear from of the BBers here who may be able to offer more insight into this and maybe offer some suggestions.

Thanks,
B-

 

[PWR]

The closer you go the more it will focus on the inner pec and help with that "split". Doing heavier half flies will help with that split as well. For instance on flat or incline do a heavier fly and dont worry about the stretch as much but more on the squeeze and turn at the top. Some will turn the db's so the pinky finger side of the db's touch and squeez and the thumbs go out. Some will turn the thumbs sides in focusing on the top portion of the chest. Another good exercise that will hammer the inner pecs is belive it or not a good ole pec deck machine. Preferably the kind where the bend of your arm at your elbow rest on the pads, so when you go in you cross your arms for the closest squeeze possible. This will help give you more of the ridged look down the center of each pec.

A close grip bench will help add the size and peak you want.

 

[tdidd42]

so on the flies you are saying dont worry about the stretch at the bottom?

 

[PWR]

so on the flies you are saying dont worry about the stretch at the bottom?

The stretch is good but I see people doing flies in the gym and they stretch way out but dont worry about the squeeze and control at the top. I just see alot of people over extend on the bottom. Its not necessary and can be dangerous.

 

[bblazer]

Thanks!

B-

 

[gjohnson5]

Some believe portions of a muscle can be build with specific exercises. Even with the use of an electronic muscle stimulator and putting the pad specifically on the inside of the chest , the complete lower or upper chest muscle will be flexed.

IMHO its is still a myth that close grip bench hits inner chest and wide grip bench hits outer chest.
There is no inner chest and outer chest muscle.... I also have seen no kinesiology or orthopedic evidence that suggests that portions of the pectorals major muscle can be emphasized with specific movements.

 

[PWR]

Some believe portions of a muscle can be build with specific exercises. Even with the use of an electronic muscle stimulator and putting the pad specifically on the inside of the chest , the complete lower or upper chest muscle will be flexed.

IMHO its is still a myth that close grip bench hits inner chest and wide grip bench hits outer chest.
There is no inner chest and outer chest muscle.... I also have seen no kinesiology or orthopedic evidence that suggests that portions of the pectorals major muscle can be emphasized with specific movements.

I only give advice based on my personal experience. I dont even know what "kinesiology" is, lol.
Saying that there is no outer or inner chest is the same is saying there is no need for incline decline and flat because the pec is one muscle. Its no myth that those three angles target different areas of the chest, I see no reason to believe you cannot target the outer and inner portions either. If that was the case all we would do is bench.

 

[dabuffguy]

Filling in th einner part of the chest wil really only come from having a big chest all over.

A close grip press will have minimal effect. Plus, that split between your chest, however it may be, is purely genetic. The only reason pros pecs come together so tightly in the middle is because their pecs are ridiculously huge.

 

[Big_BK]

I only give advice based on my personal experience. I dont even know what "kinesiology" is, lol.
Saying that there is no outer or inner chest is the same is saying there is no need for incline decline and flat because the pec is one muscle. Its no myth that those three angles target different areas of the chest, I see no reason to believe you cannot target the outer and inner portions either. If that was the case all we would do is bench.

The study of movement.

 

[dabuffguy]

Anyone who believes in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand.

 

[SaiBoT]

I'm with the Dabuff, if you focus on hypertrophy of the pecs overall for long enough the vertical split will become evident.

Even so I think that with neutral grip dumbell press with focus on the contraction point should help a bit. Not so much the flyes because the stimulus through weights on top it's minimal, unless you are a freak who can do flyes with the same weight that you can press

 

[dabuffguy]

I'm with the Dabuff, if you focus on hypertrophy of the pecs overall for long enough the vertical split will become evident.

Even so I think that with neutral grip dumbell press with focus on the contraction point should help a bit. Not so much the flyes because the stimulus through weights on top it's minimal, unless you are a freak who can do flyes with the same weight that you can press

Absolutely. Tight contractions up top with dumbbells is your best bet. The range of motion you can use with dumbbells allows the muscle to do complete contractions. BB bench limits the squeeze at the top quite a bit.

 

[LeoG]

Bent forward dumbell crossovers ala Bill Pearl. Hold the contracted position for a few seconds and switch arms as to which is on top each rep.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

Just work out the chest, squeeze at the top ofevery rep, and your pecs will eventually look better because they are bigger. You cant work out inner chest. Thats dumb. Do 20 sets of close grip bench and tell me if your inner chest is more sore than your outer chest

 

[bblazer]

Thanks for all the advice. Being just a stoopid PLer, my knowledge base is pretty narrow. I have no idea how to even begin a conversation about "sculpting" anything.

B-

 

[PWR]

Just work out the chest, squeeze at the top ofevery rep, and your pecs will eventually look better because they are bigger. You cant work out inner chest. Thats dumb. Do 20 sets of close grip bench and tell me if your inner chest is more sore than your outer chest

Whats dumb is if you think you cant target different areas of your chest. But, at 21 I thought I knew it all too....

 

[wills_got_rythm]

There is a whole other thread about this going back to 2001 I think. But it has the same BS as what is being spouted in this thread. I personally agree with PWR. You can tell the guys who have just been flat benching versus the guys who target the whole muscle with the 3 or 4 different excercises. Its been my experience too that the different exercises hit the differents areas of the muscle.

I also always say, stick to what works for you.......

 

[cobracock1979]

This works for sure. Try a 5x5. It seriously works the inner and upper chest.

I only do it 2xmonth out of sheer vanity, but it works...

Chest Exercises - Straight Arm Dumbbell Pullovers

 

[gjohnson5]

There is a whole other thread about this going back to 2001 I think. But it has the same BS as what is being spouted in this thread. I personally agree with PWR.

I also always say, stick to what works for you.......

I personally disagree. I have yet to hear any evidence in any forum about being able to target portions of the chest muscle. There is no evidence that that inner chest can be worked differently from any other part of the pectoralis major muscle.

Wide grip bench does not work outer chest any better then close grip and vice versa with inner chest. There is no inner or outer chest muscle.

 

[bblazer]

I personally disagree. I have yet to hear any evidence in any forum about being able to target portions of the chest muscle. There is no evidence that that inner chest can be worked differently from any other part of the pectoralis major muscle.

Wide grip bench does not work outer chest any better then close grip and vice versa with inner chest. There is no inner or outer chest muscle.

Try page 54 of the Second Edition of Strength Training Anatomy by Frederic Delavier.

B-

 

[Jocques Straap]

Try page 54 of the Second Edition of Strength Training Anatomy by Frederic Delavier.

B-

I have this book. It has some nice illustrations, however there are many mislabeled muscles, and other editing errors. I wouldn't consider it the most trustworthy source, but is a good flip through for any fitness enthusiast.

The science behind an active muscle contraction states that when a muscle fiber contracts, it contacts evenly along the entire fiber. This balances the "stress" along the entire fiber. There is no way to apply stress to a specific area within a specific muscle fiber.

You can however, target specific muscle fibers, within a muscle group. This allows us to target the upper and lower portions of the pectorals. But not the inner/outer.

You must look at the direction that the fibers run, in order to determine how different stresses can be applied to different muscle groups. Another example is the different heads of the biceps. You can target the inner/outer heads of the biceps by varying a narrow/wide bar grip. But you can not target, upper/lower areas.

 

[SaiBoT]

I have this book. It has some nice illustrations, however there are many mislabeled muscles, and other editing errors. I wouldn't consider it the most trustworthy source, but is a good flip through for any fitness enthusiast.

The science behind an active muscle contraction states that when a muscle fiber contracts, it contacts evenly along the entire fiber. This balances the "stress" along the entire fiber. There is no way to apply stress to a specific area within a specific muscle fiber.

You can however, target specific muscle fibers, within a muscle group. This allows us to target the upper and lower portions of the pectorals. But not the inner/outer.

You must look at the direction that the fibers run, in order to determine how different stresses can be applied to different muscle groups. Another example is the different heads of the biceps. You can target the inner/outer heads of the biceps by varying a narrow/wide bar grip. But you can not target, upper/lower areas.

What about strength curve? Does this book say anything about it?

 

[Jocques Straap]

I see no mention of strength curve on page 54. what about it?

 

[gjohnson5]

The science behind an active muscle contraction states that when a muscle fiber contracts, it contacts evenly along the entire fiber. This balances the "stress" along the entire fiber. There is no way to apply stress to a specific area within a specific muscle fiber.

You can however, target specific muscle fibers, within a muscle group. This allows us to target the upper and lower portions of the pectorals. But not the inner/outer.

I agree

The fibers of pectoralis mojor muscle run from sternum to humerus. They are continuous. the whole length of the fiber either contracts or it doesn't contract. Muscle fiber's don't contract in segments.

Even if someone wants to trot out the motor unit theory (not that anyone has yet, but just in case) as motor units fire sequentially, a motor unit still comprises the entire length of the fiber. Motor units are randomly distributed throughout the muscle itself not in specific regions

What people 'feel' when they do close grip exercises is 'active insufficiency' as the actin and myosin filaments are overlapped due to joint position and are unable to contract further. This results in a shortage of blood flow and possible tissue microtrama. That portion of the muscle fiber will not grow larger because of this. actin/myosin relationship will stay the same and always be in a area active insufficiency at shallow joint angles no matter how the fiber adapts.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

SO basically im not dumb for being 21, I just know that your INNER chest will not grow more than your outer chest if you do close grip exercises. Thats so silly just because your grip is closer doesnt mean your whole pec doesnt move the weight up.

Pushing up weight using your chest uses the whole muscle, since the fibers run horizontally. I think it is a myth, because if people didnt know science it would "seem"l ike close grip would work inner chest.

Does this mean that if someone were to do inner chest exercises every time they did chest they would have a bigger inner chest than an outer chest?

 

[gjohnson5]

Does this mean that if someone were to do inner chest exercises every time they did chest they would have a bigger inner chest than an outer chest?

No , because the muscle is shaped the way it's shaped. Muscles either grow or shrink. They are not reshaped by doing close grip or wide grip exercises

 

[SaiBoT]

I see no mention of strength curve on page 54. what about it?

I'm asking if in the whole book there's any reference about strength curve?

 

[the.gladiator1987]

No , because the muscle is shaped the way it's shaped. Muscles either grow or shrink. They are not reshaped by doing close grip or wide grip exercises

Exactly.

I know of the lower biceps being able to get bigger because you put stress on something that lies underneath the lower part of the muscle, but thats about it.

I do believe you can work upper chest, because of the angle of the lift.

 

[PWR]

Exactly.

I know of the lower biceps being able to get bigger because you put stress on something that lies underneath the lower part of the muscle, but thats about it.

I do believe you can work upper chest, because of the angle of the lift.

I dont do alot of reading muscle books, science and what not. I go off of what my body tells me and what has worked for me over the last 18 years of lifting. You seem to be grabbing along to what someone else says instead of saying all this before yourself. What you did say is that you cannot work different areas of the chest, which is false. But now you say you can work upper chest with inclines, do you not think you can work lower chest with declines?
And I never once said close grip anything will work inner chest.....read my posts again. What I did say is that close grip bench will help add size and a certain peak you want to your pecs. I talked mainly about the squeeze and close contraction. I know that if I do my normal bench and inclines that the outer part of my chest will get very sore but not the inner. If I do crossover cables or slow controlled squeezed flies and really concentrate the inner side of my pecs will get sore around my sternum. And also the top or bottom depending on the angle. Whether its working that area or microtrama I can tell when I focus a certain area.
I wasnt trying to flame you but you opened it up with the "thats dumb" comment when clearly you had that aimed at my post. I do not believe that if you try and work inner chest more it will get bigger than the outer, but I do think if you want to focus on area it will help with you goals. I will leave things alone now. People have different opinions on what works best for them. I can respect that.

 

[timtim]

time under tension on all lockouts for chest will greatly improve the pecs. its the same for pec dec and cablecrossover. i know you dont like the bbing mentality but hold your lockouts for 3 to 5 seconds and keep the rep range high. follow with dc stretching.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

I said you cant work inside/outside. I know incline puts more stress on the upper.

I assumed you meant that close grip would make your inner pecs more developed, sorry bout that

Honestlysometimes i feell ike people take it too serious i mean if you do incline, flat and decline then how can you not get muscle you either dont know how to work out or you dont know how to eat protein

I dont do alot of reading muscle books, science and what not. I go off of what my body tells me and what has worked for me over the last 18 years of lifting. You seem to be grabbing along to what someone else says instead of saying all this before yourself. What you did say is that you cannot work different areas of the chest, which is false. But now you say you can work upper chest with inclines, do you not think you can work lower chest with declines?
And I never once said close grip anything will work inner chest.....read my posts again. What I did say is that close grip bench will help add size and a certain peak you want to your pecs. I talked mainly about the squeeze and close contraction. I know that if I do my normal bench and inclines that the outer part of my chest will get very sore but not the inner. If I do crossover cables or slow controlled squeezed flies and really concentrate the inner side of my pecs will get sore around my sternum. And also the top or bottom depending on the angle. Whether its working that area or microtrama I can tell when I focus a certain area.
I wasnt trying to flame you but you opened it up with the "thats dumb" comment when clearly you had that aimed at my post. I do not believe that if you try and work inner chest more it will get bigger than the outer, but I do think if you want to focus on area it will help with you goals. I will leave things alone now. People have different opinions on what works best for them. I can respect that.

 

[dabuffguy]

I do believe you can work upper chest, because of the angle of the lift.

Yes, because the upper portion of the muscle right under the clavicle does not recieve as great of tension as the lower portion when doing a flat press. The incline places the weight and tension on the upper portion of the chest, stimulating those fibers more directly and with much greater tension.

 

[SaiBoT]

I said you cant work inside/outside. I know incline puts more stress on the upper.

I assumed you meant that close grip would make your inner pecs more developed, sorry bout that

Honestlysometimes i feell ike people take it too serious i mean if you do incline, flat and decline then how can you not get muscle you either dont know how to work out or you dont know how to eat protein

Close grip and neutral grip provide greater contraction, one thing is that the fyber contract as a whole piece another thing is the intensity of contraction.

Honestly... people here take it seriously, because building muscle it's not easy and goes far beyond incline, flat, declined
oh and eating protein. There's no size fits all here some of us need more protein, other need more carbs or fat, others need higher reps, lower reps, longer rests, shorter rests, more sets, less sets. Some of us are ectos, others mesos, other endos and some and most are hybrids. So don't come here thinking you are the know it all because those spots are all taken

 

[the.gladiator1987]

haha yea everyone is different youre right however you just cant put more stress on the inside of the pec. There im done

 

[SaiBoT]

haha yea everyone is different youre right however you just cant put more stress on the inside of the pec. There im done

Of course I'm right!!!