Dr. is taking me off HRT due to liver enzymes being elevated.

[iamthatiam]

Actually I've been off 6 weeks now... Havent lost any size, but sex drive has dropped off very noticeably.... My questions are: What are the best natural test boosters? And how long will it take my body to return to normal? He might give me some HCG, but would it serve any good after already being off 6 weeks? Will I begin to lose size if I haven't lost any yet? I'm on Tribex's Tribulus, but I just read that it doesn't do much for guys in their forties..

 

[needtogetaas]

Actually I've been off 6 weeks now... Havent lost any size, but sex drive has dropped off very noticeably.... My questions are: What are the best natural test boosters? And how long will it take my body to return to normal? He might give me some HCG, but would it serve any good after already being off 6 weeks? Will I begin to lose size if I haven't lost any yet? I'm on Tribex's Tribulus, but I just read that it doesn't do much for guys in their forties..

I would say it depends on why he put you on hrt in the first place. How old are you?

 

[iamthatiam]

My enzymes have never been elevated before. I've been on test for sevreral years now so maybe this is a consequence of long term use that I did not expect. My SGOT was 84 and SGPT was 79 or the other way around (2 weeks ago). Was also taking proscar at 1 mg. daily.. 2 weeks before that, my SGPT or SGOT was in the upper 200's, so it did drop significantly after 2 weeks...

 

[needtogetaas]

My enzymes have never been elevated before. I've been on test for sevreral years now so maybe this is a consequence of long term use that I did not expect. My SGOT was 84 and SGPT was 79 or the other way around (2 weeks ago). Was also taking proscar at 1 mg. daily.. 2 weeks before that, my SGPT or SGOT was in the upper 200's, so it did drop significantly after 2 weeks...

again how old are you bro?

 

[iamthatiam]

I ordered some Post Cycle off of this site. Hoping it will help. I'm thinking of trying Unleashed also... But I recently read that Gaspari Novadex might be better... Very confusing. I'll get my enzymes and test level checked again in 2 more weeks.... Test was down to 150 2 weeks ago, so I imagine that it's even lower now, unless the tribulus is working or my own body has started producing more testosterone again.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I ordered some Post Cycle off of this site. Hoping it will help. I'm thinking of trying Unleashed also... But I recently read that Gaspari Novadex might be better... Very confusing. I'll get my enzymes and test level checked again in 2 more weeks.... Test was down to 150 2 weeks ago, so I imagine that it's even lower now, unless the tribulus is working or my own body has started producing more testosterone again.

Tribulus is more stressful to the liver than testosterone.

The UNLEASHED and POST CYCLE will help but if you've been on HRT and on nothing now, and were low to start out with...well, it's going to take a while before you're back.

If anything, the POST CYCLE would help the liver values.

150 is low. The UNLEASHED will raise your FREE test, not overall test.

You may want to consider seeing another doctor.

 

[iamthatiam]

If the liver values come down to normal, he will give me injections again, but at a lower dose... Although he prefers me to try and do without it and I would like to try, but I'm gonna need some good products. I can't believe that I haven't lost any size yet.... It has to start happening soon, doesn't it?

 

[deezy1225]

use some of PP's test boosting products, they are amazing!... i can tell you this from first hand experience. they will make you feel like your on again !!!

 

[iamthatiam]

Tribulus is more stressful to the liver than testosterone.

The UNLEASHED and POST CYCLE will help but if you've been on HRT and on nothing now, and were low to start out with...well, it's going to take a while before you're back.

If anything, the POST CYCLE would help the liver values.

150 is low. The UNLEASHED will raise your FREE test, not overall test.

You may want to consider seeing another doctor.

Thank you for that info.. Didn't know that about tribulus.

 

[iamthatiam]

I do have to say that I can't find even one article on the internet that states that tribulus is harmful to the liver. Every article that I've read states the opposite. That is beneficial to the liver?

 

[needtogetaas]

use some of PP's test boosting products, they are amazing!... i can tell you this from first hand experience. they will make you feel like your on again !!!

I was thinking the same as well. The dermacrine is pretty strong and very healthy as well.

 

[iamthatiam]

Well I can't use anything that is toxic to the liver. Especially more than injections of test. I have been using some a-dex that I had on hand for 3 weeks now and will continue for another 3 weeks at .5 mgs per day.... Can I take Post Cycle with the A-dex? What's weird is that my scalp is oily again... I don't think I can be recovering that fast... I can't wait to find out.

 

[Nelson Montana]

continue for another 3 weeks at .5 mgs per day.... Can I take Post Cycle with the A-dex?

Yes, but you'll need less a-dex.

 

[Roc86]

What kinda HRT dose were you on bro?

 

[iamthatiam]

What kinda HRT dose were you on bro?

250 mgs. a week... Evidently too high. Unless it's something else causing the enzymes to be elevated.. Time will tell. Now he will give me 300 mg injections twice a month if the enzyme levels return to normal... Although he wants me to try and stay natural and see how I do. I've been taking prescribed klonopin at .5 mgs for 10 years, so I think it may be a combination of the meds that caused the elevation, but we'll see.

 

[halfcenturian]

Hrt should be about have of what you are taking. Also SGOT and SGPT below 100 is nothing. 200+ your Liver is stressing a little. What are you taking for Liver support? Get some of that.
Also don't freak if your Bilirubin goes up. Mine was @ 2.5 and my Dr. didn't bat an eye. Just keep checking BW every 6 weeks or so.

 

[iamthatiam]

Hrt should be about have of what you are taking. Also SGOT and SGPT below 100 is nothing. 200+ your Liver is stressing a little. What are you taking for Liver support? Get some of that.
Also don't freak if your Bilirubin goes up. Mine was @ 2.5 and my Dr. didn't bat an eye. Just keep checking BW every 6 weeks or so.

I was taking milk thistle, but now I'm gonna try Post Cycle. Anything else I should add? Thank you and Needto, Nelson and the rest... I love bodybuilding and I hate having to change anything that is successful, but I'm fairly conservative when it comes to my health and I don't like seeing elevated enzymes, especially since they've never been elevated on any blood test before and I've had several.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I must say, your doctor doesn't sound too bright.

#1: Why put you back on if your values comes down while OFF? That'll just suggest that the treatment raised the values and will do so once you go back on. His logic makes no sense.

#2:He should also realize it isn't healthy to leave someone suppressed. Why not just LOWER the dosage instead of cutting you off completely?

And #3; 250 is way too high for replacement. Something is wrong. In fact, it's all wrong.

Your best bet-- 100 mgs a week along with the supps and a little dex. That'll fix you right up.

 

[iamthatiam]

I must say, your doctor doesn't sound too bright.

#1: Why put you back on if your values comes down while OFF? That'll just suggest that the treatment raised the values and will do so once you go back on. His logic makes no sense.

#2:He should also realize it isn't healthy to leave someone suppressed. Why not just LOWER the dosage instead of cutting you off completely?

And #3; 250 is way too high for replacement. Something is wrong. In fact, it's all wrong.

Your best bet-- 100 mgs a week along with the supps and a little dex. That'll fix you right up.

I know you are very educated in this realm and do your homework, so I value and respect your opinions.... How long do you think I should wait before having my test level checked again? I've been off six weeks now..... (At least one good thing I found, even with a level of 150 or less, I still am able to get it up, just don't desire it near as much.)

 

[Roc86]

250mgs a week = a cycle.

100-150mgs a week = legitmate HRT dosages. If you feel a drop off by day 6 or 7 just try slplitting into 2 weekly shots (75mg a pop ideally).

 

[iamthatiam]

One more question: My testicles are very small and have been so since my 20's. Especially small now.... Would taking HCG do anything at all at this point? It doesn't bother me that they're small, but I can't imagine they'll ever pump out a normal amount of testosterone at this size. In my 20's my test level was 400 and I had small testicles then.

 

[Big_Joe]

My enzymes have never been elevated before. I've been on test for sevreral years now so maybe this is a consequence of long term use that I did not expect. My SGOT was 84 and SGPT was 79 or the other way around (2 weeks ago). Was also taking proscar at 1 mg. daily.. 2 weeks before that, my SGPT or SGOT was in the upper 200's, so it did drop significantly after 2 weeks...

If your lab is still using SGOT and SGPT they are decades out of date. The current tests are ALT and AST. Also these are not liver function tests. There are inflamation markers. All cells have these enzymes. If you have these tests done after a heavy leg workout they will be through the roof.

The way your doctor, be it witch doctor or aura reader, should confirm that these are indicators of liver damage is to confirm using a GGT. If you doctor has not run a GGT he's an idiot. You can tell him I said that. So push his ass and get him to give you a GGT to confirm that there is liver damage.

Do some research on line about GGT, Gamma-glutamyl transferase, Wikipedia is a good place to start. It is very clear that you need to light a fire under his butt. If he hasn't completed the GGT to confirm that you actually have a liver problem you should sue him.

My advice is to get as much information as you can off the web and print it out as to how to do liver function tests, ALT and ALST are NOT liver function tests. Then give it to him and have a tape recorder running that he knoes about that will indictae that if he doesn't do his job properly, it's called standard of practice, you will sue him.

I have a license to practice medicine. I have let it lapse because I no longer practice but if you do your research and pm me with links to what you have I will look it over and tell you what to add or what to drop and how to present it. But from what I've seen so far your doctor and your lab are decades behind the times. And if your doctor doesn't listen to you when you present good information you will have it on tape and that is grounds to sue.

Make sure you only use sites that are reputable. No crystal therapy sites, no voodo sites, just good medical sites. Like pubmed (PubMed Home).

My wife wants me write a book on how to do research on pubmed so the average joe can assist their doctor in helping the doctor stay up to date. I told this to a few of my friends that are MDs and all of them said they would buy my book so they could use pubmed.

So the reality is I would like to see what a normal person, that's you, can find to help their doctor heal their bodies using pubmed. This is called full disclosure.

 

[iamthatiam]

If your lab is still using SGOT and SGPT they are decades out of date. The current tests are ALT and AST. Also these are not liver function tests. There are inflamation markers. All cells have these enzymes. If you have these tests done after a heavy leg workout they will be through the roof.

The way your doctor, be it witch doctor or aura reader, should confirm that these are indicators of liver damage is to confirm using a GGT. If you doctor has not run a GGT he's an idiot. You can tell him I said that. So push his ass and get him to give you a GGT to confirm that there is liver damage.

Do some research on line about GGT, Gamma-glutamyl transferase, Wikipedia is a good place to start. It is very clear that you need to light a fire under his butt. If he hasn't completed the GGT to confirm that you actually have a liver problem you should sue him.

My advice is to get as much information as you can off the web and print it out as to how to do liver function tests, ALT and ALST are NOT liver function tests. Then give it to him and have a tape recorder running that he knoes about that will indictae that if he doesn't do his job properly, it's called standard of practice, you will sue him.

I have a license to practice medicine. I have let it lapse because I no longer practice but if you do your research and pm me with links to what you have I will look it over and tell you what to add or what to drop and how to present it. But from what I've seen so far your doctor and your lab are decades behind the times. And if your doctor doesn't listen to you when you present good information you will have it on tape and that is grounds to sue.

Make sure you only use sites that are reputable. No crystal therapy sites, no voodo sites, just good medical sites. Like pubmed (PubMed Home).

My wife wants me write a book on how to do research on pubmed so the average joe can assist their doctor in helping the doctor stay up to date. I told this to a few of my friends that are MDs and all of them said they would buy my book so they could use pubmed.

So the reality is I would like to see what a normal person, that's you, can find to help their doctor heal their bodies using pubmed. This is called full disclosure.

Thank you so much. I did ask him about the GGT test to confirm if I actually have liver damage and he said and I'm quoting him, "I don't use that test." I really like the guy too, so I'm disappointed if he's not up to par.

 

[iamthatiam]

I want to clarify that I was not under care of a doctor when I was doing the test. I think anti-aging clinics may give doses that high, but only going by what I've read on here and elsewhere... The dr. I'm seeing now is probably not best suited for this problem judging by what I'm reading here... Excellent info.

 

[DannoMight]

there is a med called "esential forte" or something like that. I have a pro bb friend that swears it knocks you liver enzymes down immediately. He uses after a lot of his cycles for his liver enzymes.

 

[rockdoc]

I've been taking prescribed klonopin at .5 mgs for 10 years

Did anyone catch this? Could that be the reason for elevated liver values?

 

[iamthatiam]

How long should I wait to see if my test levels will come back into the normal range before I decide to start on HRT?

 

[iamthatiam]

Did anyone catch this? Could that be the reason for elevated liver values?

I take 1 mg. daily and not .5 as I posted previously.

 

[galaxy]

i cant imagine the TRT is the culprit, but Im no doctor. Were you drinking in the days leading up to blood work?

 

[Mr. dB]

i cant imagine the TRT is the culprit, but Im no doctor. Were you drinking in the days leading up to blood work?

Yeah, I didn't think that injected test was liver-toxic at all??

 

[galaxy]

Its not at that dose and I know Id be fighting like hell to stay on it and give him some other bullshit reason for the test being elevated. If anything taking you off it is gonna cause more problems. This is just exacerbating it.

 

[iamthatiam]

If your lab is still using SGOT and SGPT they are decades out of date. The current tests are ALT and AST. Also these are not liver function tests. There are inflamation markers. All cells have these enzymes. If you have these tests done after a heavy leg workout they will be through the roof.

The way your doctor, be it witch doctor or aura reader, should confirm that these are indicators of liver damage is to confirm using a GGT. If you doctor has not run a GGT he's an idiot. You can tell him I said that. So push his ass and get him to give you a GGT to confirm that there is liver damage.

Do some research on line about GGT, Gamma-glutamyl transferase, Wikipedia is a good place to start. It is very clear that you need to light a fire under his butt. If he hasn't completed the GGT to confirm that you actually have a liver problem you should sue him.

My advice is to get as much information as you can off the web and print it out as to how to do liver function tests, ALT and ALST are NOT liver function tests. Then give it to him and have a tape recorder running that he knoes about that will indictae that if he doesn't do his job properly, it's called standard of practice, you will sue him.

I have a license to practice medicine. I have let it lapse because I no longer practice but if you do your research and pm me with links to what you have I will look it over and tell you what to add or what to drop and how to present it. But from what I've seen so far your doctor and your lab are decades behind the times. And if your doctor doesn't listen to you when you present good information you will have it on tape and that is grounds to sue.

Make sure you only use sites that are reputable. No crystal therapy sites, no voodo sites, just good medical sites. Like pubmed (PubMed Home).

My wife wants me write a book on how to do research on pubmed so the average joe can assist their doctor in helping the doctor stay up to date. I told this to a few of my friends that are MDs and all of them said they would buy my book so they could use pubmed.

So the reality is I would like to see what a normal person, that's you, can find to help their doctor heal their bodies using pubmed. This is called full disclosure.

Concerning the GGT test, this is what the American Academy of Liver Disease has to say.

GGT: The Test

 

[iamthatiam]

Everything's looking good now... Had liver enzymes and testosterone checked yesterday.... SGOT was 42 and SGPT was 52. Testosterone up to 317... The only thing I have taken since the first 2 tests is .5 mgs of arimidex daily for about 2 weeks before the test and Post Cycle (Protein Factory) for about 3 days before the test... Now I wonder if my test levels will plummet again when I stop taking arimidex in about 2 weeks??? I guess it's highly possible that the weekly injections and maybe finasteride were the culprits here.

 

[centy]

again how old are you bro?

HOW OLD ARE YOU?

Do you drink?

 

[iamthatiam]

HOW OLD ARE YOU?

Do you drink?

Maybe an average of 3 beers per month.

 

[iamthatiam]

Met with my Dr. Today. He was baffled that my testosterone level increased to low normal range in only 8 weeks after being on 300 mgs. of test weekly for 6 years. He asked me if I recently took an injection on my own... I told him that it was probaly due to my use of arimidex for the last 5 weeks... I've also been using Tribex and Post Cycle by Protein Factory ( but only started the Post Cycle 3 days before my blood was done)... He thinks my testosteron levels will drop below normal again after I stop taking the Arimidex, which will be in 1 week. He wants to do blodwork again in 5 weeks, 1 month after the A-dex will be out of my system... Then he wants to start TRT..... The thing is, I feel better physcially than ever in many ways and I haven't lost any size or strength (minimal) and my sex drive is good... I recently read that A-dex can be a better choice for hormone therapy than testosterone (for some men)... Due to the fact that it doesn't shut down natural test levels and keeps estrogen low... So I may want to just take A-dex and skip the testosterone... Or I might just take the product Post Cycle if it proves to be as effective as A-dex... Then try the other product Unleashed to raise my free test and continue taking the Tribex, but something is obviously working..... Thanks.

 

[FunFun]

Also don't freak if your Bilirubin goes up. Mine was @ 2.5 and my Dr. didn't bat an eye. Just keep checking BW every 6 weeks or so.

You can usually detect a yellowing of the sclera of the eyes at a bilirubin level of 2 - 2.5 and other signs of jaundice should already be noticeable.

I would take any reading above 1.5 as a serious warning sign that the liver is starting to shut down bile secretion. You could be feeling fine one day, and the next day you could feel like a freight train has hit you.

Slightly elevated AST and ALT levels are a sign something is awry but nothing to panic about, but if bilirubin is up you need to take some immediate action to get it under control such as discontinuing any oral supplementation that is of known liver toxicity.

You have been warned!

Cholestasis can be living hell and the last thing on your mind will be bodybuilding. You'll see all that hard earned muscle just melt away before your eyes.

 

[iamthatiam]

I'm not growing hair on my back like a gorilla anymore. LOL.....