rear delts

[Nomak666]

my shoulder routine goes like this

shoulder press (2 weeks barbell, 2 weeks dumbbell)
upright row
lateral raise
and barbell shrugs for traps


on my back day, i do barbell rows and ive read that the row actually works the rear delts alot, and i feel it too. is that enough to hit the rear delts? or shold i throw in something else to hit them?

 

[drsketch]

I like reverse peck deck, seems to hit mine nice.
Also i hear reverse cable crossovers do them good but never tried.

 

[Nomak666]

I like reverse peck deck, seems to hit mine nice.
Also i hear reverse cable crossovers do them good but never tried.

im officially going back to the gym. went to the gym for a year, then just bought benches for my house but the gym has a shitload of more equipment. the only reason i like working out at home is cause i hate waiting for machines/benches and i hate it when a guy stands by my machine but doesnt say anything, but what he's reallly saying in his head is "hurry the fuck up"

 

[dabuffguy]

I like reverse peck deck, seems to hit mine nice.
Also i hear reverse cable crossovers do them good but never tried.

I never found the pec deck to hit mine as well and I have tried every angle. It doesn't work for me. May work for others.

However I do reverse flies with dumbbells which is almost the same motion, but it gets them a litle better.



Do upright rows with dumbbells held at your side, thumbs pointing forward. Just lift them up and back slightly That nails my rear delts almost exclusively. Does me good.

Nomak66,

Take your shirt off and do the fly and arm raise motions to determine at exactly what angle your rear delts move/contract and work them at that angle with the different excerises as best you can.

I have noticed barbell rows also get my rear delts pretty good. I love BB rows.

 

[Seattleite]

The barbell rows (or dumbbell rows) will take care of the rear delts. Pull-ups hit them pretty good too. Don't waste time with isolation stuff because you'll get no additional benefit from it.

 

[dabuffguy]

The barbell rows (or dumbbell rows) will take care of the rear delts. Pull-ups hit them pretty good too. Don't waste time with isolation stuff because you'll get no additional benefit from it.

 

[miplank]

However I do reverse flies with dumbbells which is almost the same motion, but it gets them a litle better.



Do upright rows with dumbbells held at your side, thumbs pointing forward. Just lift them up and back slightly That nails my rear delts almost exclusively. Does me good.

wow...that's exactly what I do. Love it too...

 

[Nomak666]

dabuffguy, i tried what you said. i feel it the most with the bent-over barbell row, so im just gonna keep the rear delts with the back workout.

 

[dabuffguy]

dabuffguy, i tried what you said. i feel it the most with the bent-over barbell row, so im just gonna keep the rear delts with the back workout.

Thats great bro. You gotta do what works for you. If you try something and it isn't what does it for you, atleast you tried. I always take peoples ideas and suggestions and give them a go. If they seem to work for me, I hold onto it. If it doesn't work I do someting else.

Weight training is all about experience and figuring out how your body best responds. Once you learn all the right tricks for your body type and the way it funcitons, you will be much better off.

If an IFBB tells you to do someting, and it works great for him, and he has 21" arms but it doesn't work for you, you'd be wasting your time continuing to do it.

 

[SouthernLord]

dabuffguy, i tried what you said. i feel it the most with the bent-over barbell row, so im just gonna keep the rear delts with the back workout.

Hey bro. Just focus your efforts on moving the most weight possible with deadlifts, BB rows, overhead press, and chin/pull ups. These are money!! The rear delts are such a small muscle group that focusing too much effort on isolating them is wasted time imo. I haven't done a single iso lift for my shoulders or back in close to a year and my shoulders/upper back are my strongest and best developed body part(s).

 

[timtim]

The barbell rows (or dumbbell rows) will take care of the rear delts. Pull-ups hit them pretty good too. Don't waste time with isolation stuff because you'll get no additional benefit from it.

pretty clueless.

 

[SouthernLord]

pretty clueless.

Does this refer to his comments on iso lifts being worthless? I do agree with the other part. I think focusing your efforts on rowing what most guys deadlift will benefit you more than getting your bent laterial raises to fifteen reps with the 40's. Does that make any sense? I am not saying not to do both, just focus on what will give you the most bang for your buck.

 

[Nomak666]

Hey bro. Just focus your efforts on moving the most weight possible with deadlifts, BB rows, overhead press, and chin/pull ups. These are money!! The rear delts are such a small muscle group that focusing too much effort on isolating them is wasted time imo. I haven't done a single iso lift for my shoulders or back in close to a year and my shoulders/upper back are my strongest and best developed body part(s).

gotcha. with the overhead press, i go back and fourth with the barbell and dumbbells every 2 weeks or so, would it be more beneficial just to use the barbell and lift heavier?

 

[halfcenturian]

Behind the neck barbell press, heavy - 6 sets
Bent-over reverse flyes - 6 sets
Bent barbell rows, heavy - 6 sets

 

[the_alcatraz]

Behind the neck barbell press, heavy - 6 sets
Bent-over reverse flyes - 6 sets
Bent barbell rows, heavy - 6 sets

Yes

 

[dabuffguy]

dabuffguy, i tried what you said. i feel it the most with the bent-over barbell row, so im just gonna keep the rear delts with the back workout.

And I just re-read this.

I do do the dumbbell upright/standing row on back day as well. No sense is doing it another day where you just tired them out doing rows.

 

[timtim]

Does this refer to his comments on iso lifts being worthless? I do agree with the other part. I think focusing your efforts on rowing what most guys deadlift will benefit you more than getting your bent laterial raises to fifteen reps with the 40's. Does that make any sense? I am not saying not to do both, just focus on what will give you the most bang for your buck.

yes, the iso part. ive had a ton of growth from various rear delt exercises (not reverse pec dec, i dont feel that).

 

[Seattleite]

yes, the iso part. ive had a ton of growth from various rear delt exercises (not reverse pec dec, i dont feel that).

If you're doing pull-ups and heavy rows as well, why would you attribute the growth to the iso movements rather than the increased overload of the compounds?

 

[dabuffguy]

If you're doing pull-ups and heavy rows as well, why would you attribute the growth to the iso movements rather than the increased overload of the compounds?

k bro, here's the difference.


You are telling people to NOT do stuff. And we are telling people to, yes do them. There is a big difference between the 2.

Obviously, the greater part of stimulation for growth comes from heavy compound excercises. Anyone who knows a bit about lifting should know that.

You are telling people to ignore the smaller isolation excercises altogether, when that is not good advice. If they do the compound excercises and have thoe covered, the addition of isolation excerises can only be of more benefit.

And by you telling peolpe to not do them is not helping anyone. I understand your view point 100%. But, by telling someone to not do isolation excerises vs. saying "yeah, throw them in at the end after you got your core excercises finished" is simply giving people the wrong idea.

Isolation excercises target smaller muscles that get over looked and unrecruited when using heavy weight. Take rotator cuffs for example. If all you do is lift heavy bench and military without doing dumbbell raises, your rotator cuffs become almost completely neglected, and they reamin weak while your other bigger muscle get big and strong. Guess what happens? yep, you get injured.

Same goes for the smaller connective muscle and tissues in every joint in your body. knees, hips, ankles, elbows, wrists and shoulders. A small weak muscle will not attempt to aid in lifting 300 pounds. it lets the bigger ones take over. Ever do side dumbbell raises with 5 pounders for 20 controlled reps? It burns like hell, because your smaller muscles are getting to do the work while the delts are giving stabilization.

There was guy named djeclipse on here that shares your same ideas about iso excercises. We had several 10 page discussions on the issue. I know where you are coming from, but the idea of suggesting to neglect certain excercises, isos, has a serous flaw.

 

[Seattleite]

What are some examples of muscle groups that are ommitted during the major compound lifts and can only be targeted with isolation movements? You mentioned the rotator cuff for instance. I would like to see a list of this and then do some research on it. And for the record, the exercises that I refer to as the "major compound lifts" are squats, bench press, deads, barbell row, overhead press, pull-ups/chins, and dips. Since you are one who views iso movements as a necessary addition to a routine, I'm just curious to see which muscles you feel need the extra work.

 

[miplank]

IMO...the "extra" work you put into your workouts is what gets results...







just sayin'

 

[dabuffguy]

What are some examples of muscle groups that are ommitted during the major compound lifts and can only be targeted with isolation movements? You mentioned the rotator cuff for instance. I would like to see a list of this and then do some research on it. And for the record, the exercises that I refer to as the "major compound lifts" are squats, bench press, deads, barbell row, overhead press, pull-ups/chins, and dips. Since you are one who views iso movements as a necessary addition to a routine, I'm just curious to see which muscles you feel need the extra work.

All of them.

 

[Seattleite]

All of them.

Seriously…I'm meeting you half way here. Your example of the rotator cuff was a good one, if indeed is is neglected during heavy overhead pressing. I'd really lie to hear what other stabilizing muscles or smaller muscles groups in general might be neglected during the big lifts.

We'll just agree to disagree on all of the muscles needing extra work via isolation. My definition of extra work is increasing overload or volume within the compounds.

 

[timtim]

no way rows and pullups allow for the same contraction as a db rear delt raise. is the muscle stimulated? yes. is it a primary or secondary mover? no, its tertiary at best. i want round delts and the rear delt needs to be targeted. i see what those exercises do and they work but the rear delt is not stimulated nearly as much as it needs to be. you do it your way. ill do it mine.

 

[Seattleite]

you do it your way. ill do it mine.

Thanks for your permission...

 

[dabuffguy]

Thanks for your permission...

keep it civil brosky



just reminding you

 

[needtogetaas]

Seriously…I'm meeting you half way here. Your example of the rotator cuff was a good one, if indeed is is neglected during heavy overhead pressing. I'd really lie to hear what other stabilizing muscles or smaller muscles groups in general might be neglected during the big lifts.

We'll just agree to disagree on all of the muscles needing extra work via isolation. My definition of extra work is increasing overload or volume within the compounds.

What about lets say people like me. I have a pretty impressive dead lift. How ever I have to use straps. I also do wrist curls and other wrist work to try and bring up my lagging wrists.

Yes compound lifts work a lot of muscle groups all at once. I am a power lifter at heart and I am down with the core lifts more then most people, How ever I do see the need for other work.

Also some one may have quads (like me) the get insanely big from just doing squats. Yes my other leg muscles grow to but not even have as much or as fast as my quads do.

In order for my legs to be well proportioned I have to ether not do squats and just work my other leg muscle, or do extra work on my other leg muscle.

Other people have other problems like this with other parts of there body.


I think you can see the logic in this right?


Also do not act like an asshole bro. You have been banned from this site once already so its just that easy to ban you again. Shape up act right and have some good debates but if you act like a kid I will send you packing. You are damn lucky I don't already PoweredUp

 

[Seattleite]

keep it civil brosky

All I said was "Thanks for your permission." Is that any more uncivil than him referring to me as clueless?

 

[dabuffguy]

All I said was "Thanks for your permission." Is that any more uncivil than him referring to me as clueless?

And you gave him the finger.

And, we do know you are an alter, formely known as "poweredup" who was banned. Needto will let you stay as long as you don't do things like you just did with the finger.

Being sarcastic and giving the finger (which essentially means "fuck you") is being rude.

Him calling you clueless was also close to the line.


Still, back to the topic.

You never answered a questin I asked, which was (rephrase it, I will):


Can you show me any pro bodybuilder that doesn't do isolation excercises?


They all do them. Every single one of them. And they obviously know their shit better than anyone here. So if all the best in the world say you should do them AND they follow their own advice and have world class physiques, it would only make sense to do isolation excerices. And, if you still disagree, it means you ARE bieng clueless, thickheaded and stubborn. Without meaning offense.

 

[Seattleite]

Also do not act like an asshole bro.

I really don't need civil instruction from a guy with the screeen name "Need to get ass."

You have been banned from this site once already so its just that easy to ban you again.

No I haven't. I just came across this site several weeks ago. You obviously don't know what you think you know.

Shape up act right and have some good debates but if you act like a kid I will send you packing. You are damn lucky I don't already PoweredUp

Don't know who Powered Up is. What exactly was he banned for? Anyway, you do what you have to do to go on your power trip. I am 32 years old and no one is going to talk to me as if I'm their child. I've been raised already and I don't need any more tips on behavior. If someone wants to refer to me as clueless, they can expect a reaction. Hell, I didn't even say anything until he took a second pot shot. Even then, I only said "Thanks for your permission." What's wrong with that? Surely you don't have an issue with me using an icon that YOU guys provided...

 

[SouthernLord]

Damn what a turn of events lol. What did I miss here

 

[needtogetaas]

I really don't need civil instruction from a guy with the screeen name "Need to get ass."



No I haven't. I just came across this site several weeks ago. You obviously don't know what you think you know.

Don't know who Powered Up is. What exactly was he banned for? Anyway, you do what you have to do to go on your power trip. I am 32 years old and no one is going to talk to me as if I'm their child. I've been raised already and I don't need any more tips on behavior. If someone wants to refer to me as clueless, they can expect a reaction. Hell, I didn't even say anything until he took a second pot shot. Even then, I only said "Thanks for your permission." What's wrong with that? Surely you don't have an issue with me using an icon that YOU guys provided...

And that's a wrap. Good buy bro. I tried to give you a chance to come back and be civil but you just could not do it.


The funny part is I had 3 count them 3 members come to me in a pm and complain about you. 2 of these members said to me "you know this guy post just like that old asshole member PoweredUp"

I checked into it and low and behold all your ips match PoweredUp. So yes I do know what I know and even 2 members new it and did not even need the ip's to prove it.

I told these members lets give the guy a chance to be a part of ef and a good member. Look what I get for trying to give you a chance. SEEEEEEEEEE YAAAAAAAAAA

 

[dabuffguy]

I really don't need civil instruction from a guy with the screeen name "Need to get ass."



No I haven't. I just came across this site several weeks ago. You obviously don't know what you think you know.

Don't know who Powered Up is. What exactly was he banned for? Anyway, you do what you have to do to go on your power trip. I am 32 years old and no one is going to talk to me as if I'm their child. I've been raised already and I don't need any more tips on behavior. If someone wants to refer to me as clueless, they can expect a reaction. Hell, I didn't even say anything until he took a second pot shot. Even then, I only said "Thanks for your permission." What's wrong with that? Surely you don't have an issue with me using an icon that YOU guys provided...

Bro, we can search your IP address on your computer. It is the exact same IP address as the former 'poweredup'. There's no coincidence in that.

Also, don't give attitude to the mods, you'll get the boot. this place is for people who can keep it civil and be respectful to eachother.

It's obvious your tone when you gave the finger. It was il intended.



Look, you don't have to be here. You are welcome to stay, and please by all means do. Just don't be an ass, like needto said.


The reason we talk to people like their children, is because people tend to talk a bigger game on the computer, and say and do "childish" things like give the finger for being called clueless. Cry me a river. I've had people over in chat that I should go fuck myself and tell me I'm a piece of shit for my religion and all sorts of things.

 

[dabuffguy]

Never mind, guess needto had enough.

 

[needtogetaas]

BTW its needtogetaas bro!!!!!!!!

 

[the_alcatraz]

Holy shit, I'm a few minutes late and he starts talking trash...my I outtta!!!

 

[timtim]

saying rear delt isolations are not needed is clueless.

is that an insult, meh. ive been told alot worse. giving me an e-finger is the geigh.

saying you do it your way and ill do it mine is a pot shot? holy sensitive.

hes gone, whatever. you want rounded rear delts, isolation exercises are key. everything will make them bigger and stronger but not shape them.

 

[miplank]

damn...I missed everything.

So all I really have left to say is....





I isolation excercises

 

[the_alcatraz]

saying rear delt isolations are not needed is clueless.

is that an insult, meh. ive been told alot worse. giving me an e-finger is the geigh.

saying you do it your way and ill do it mine is a pot shot? holy sensitive.

hes gone, whatever. you want rounded rear delts, isolation exercises are key. everything will make them bigger and stronger but not shape them.

Yes. Isolation is ket with rear delts.

I agree with this.

 

[SaiBoT]

He was asking for it... Anyway I was thinking about reporting him but since I'm used to "not so polite ppl" I kept my coolness and estabilished my point through my posts, specially on the chest help threads right guys?!

I love flyes and "isolation" moves

 

[SouthernLord]

Since we are on the topic of iso lifts lol... Try these out sometime. Sets of 10-15 will burn your upper back/rear delts up.

Face Pulls

 

[dabuffguy]

Since we are on the topic of iso lifts lol... Try these out sometime. Sets of 10-15 will burn your upper back/rear delts up.

Face Pulls

Interesting. Looking at the angle of his rear delts in particular, he would probably want to lower the rope angle by 1 notch. That is, for best traget of the rear delt.

I'm gonna give this a try.

That' guy is built solid too, btw.

 

[SaiBoT]

That's a great exercise, I've done and it really burns the rear delt and lower traps pretty nicely. Rep after rep you can feel those getting harder and harder. It's much better using a weight that you can control and keep the wrists tight.

 

[SouthernLord]

That's a great exercise, I've done and it really burns the rear delt and lower traps pretty nicely. Rep after rep you can feel those getting harder and harder. It's much better using a weight that you can control and keep the wrists tight.

These will burn you up in a higher rep range. I too like to use a stricter form than in the video. You should be able to squeeze and hold your upper back at the end of each rep.

They can be used as a Prehab/Active warm up exercise too. Throw in a scapula retraction before you initiate the pull and an external rotation at the completion of the pull. You need an extra long rope attachment to do the external rotation though. Good way for those guys with some minor posture and rotator cuff problems to warm up for upper body pressing work.

 

[SaiBoT]

These will burn you up in a higher rep range. I too like to use a stricter form than in the video. You should be able to squeeze and hold your upper back at the end of each rep.

They can be used as a Prehab/Active warm up exercise too. Throw in a scapula retraction before you initiate the pull and an external rotation at the completion of the pull. You need an extra long rope attachment to do the external rotation though. Good way for those guys with some minor posture and rotator cuff problems to warm up for upper body pressing work.

By the external rotation you mean that at the completion of the pull the elbows should be point outward and a bit upward right!? That's the way I did them when had those on my routine.

 

[SouthernLord]

Your arms should be just like you were doing an external rotation with a DB for your rotator cuffs. lol I guess that doesn't answer your question.

 

[SaiBoT]

I see... thanks for the showing LOL