Intermittent fasting and steroid use?

[Nelson Montana]

Maybe you misread my post. I said that people taking in the SAME CALORIC LEVEL lost more bodyfat on IF vs the traditional 4-6 meal per day plan while retaining the same amount of LBM. Some even ended with more LBM on IF.


If you know as much about IF as me, why did you ask what the benefits were?

I was being facetious because I know there aren't any. I think all that particular study proves is what i've been saying for years. Catabolism is WAY overrated. That's why I thinkg "cutting cycles are bullshit. Everyone is so afraid of losing muscle when they diet and that's just not so. So in that regard, we agree.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Our ancestors conquered the world, climbing icy mountains, tracking, chasing, and slaying large and dangerous animals while fasted for many hours if not days, then gorged on the kill. They didn't awake in their caves and whip up a whey shake for breakfast to stay out of some catabolic state so they could safely preserve their muscle before embarking on the next hunt. Supplement companies would have us all believe their lies about meal frequency and shakes and potions so that they may make their billions, while we the sheeple believe those lies so long we forget how utterly simply our magnificent bodies really work.

And they died at age 35

 

[notjake11]

How about utilizing your bodys own insulin levels to partition its nutrients better....or the fact that there are numerous studies showing that people given the same caloric level over a period of time show a bigger decrease in bodyfat when doing fasted eating vs the grazing method while maintaining the same or MORE lean mass.......but I'm not going to spell everything out for you, but take a look at my thread if you want to know or check out Martin Berkhans site Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health. I'm pretty sure he is a lot more qualified to give advice on an IF diet than you are...lol[/QUOTE]


Why is that bro? He's a nutritional consultant, a trainer and writes for magazines. I was doing all of those things when he was in diapers.

As for those studies I can explain to you why you're reading them incorrectly but I gotta be honest -- I ain't diggin the tude.

With alk due respect, if you go back and read your posts objectively your attitude set the tone for the responses you got. Your comments have been dismissive and show a complete disregard and borderline disrespect for anyone whose view differs from yours.

Generally speaking i am a big fan - have learned a lot from your posts and think you are a huge asset, but i think you hopped into this convo with a preset opinion and have been deadset against listening to anything that differs from that opinion.

We are all on the same team here and trying to help each other get tje best results possible. We all need to keep that in mind, even when we disagree.

Sent from my Desire HD using EliteFitness

 

[stevesmi]

i think everyone is getting off the point of what the OP is asking.. whether you agree with IF or not ... EVERYONE can agree that it can be done safely on AAS just do don't IF if you are taking tren or insulin.. very dangerous. you need to monitor blood sugar closely on either or you could easily end up in the hospital

 

[RickRock13]

I was being facetious because I know there aren't any. I think all that particular study proves is what i've been saying for years. Catabolism is WAY overrated. That's why I thinkg "cutting cycles are bullshit. Everyone is so afraid of losing muscle when they diet and that's just not so. So in that regard, we agree.

Absolutely bro. I agree with you 100% in that regard. If you cut and diet correctly, catabolism will never be an issue

 

[RickRock13]

And they died at age 35

The reason they died at an earlier age had nothing to do with their hunter gatherer eating habits. It had to do with the fact that they obviously don't have the benefits of modern medicine like we do. Historians did say they had the leanest and most muscular natural bodies in history as well.

IF actually increases life expectancy. I can post the link to that later if you'd like to see it. Right now I'm on my phone so I can't. I do have the link in my intermittent fasting discussion thread as well, but im not sure what page its on

 

[RickRock13]

i think everyone is getting off the point of what the OP is asking.. whether you agree with IF or not ... EVERYONE can agree that it can be done safely on AAS just do don't IF if you are taking tren or insulin.. very dangerous. you need to monitor blood sugar closely on either or you could easily end up in the hospital

Good post Steve. That is one of the reasons I have avoided Tren so far. I will be using it this summer however and expirimenting a little with the diet aspect by checking blood glucose with a glucometer during the time. Just in my own opinion, if you are taking in enough carbs during the feeding window keeping glycogen stores at saturation, the fast won't be an issue. I don't have experience with it yet, but We shall see. Just my thoughts from everything I've learned and studied on IF.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ in my experience with tren if I don't get in a certain amount during the day I will wake up at night either sweating or shaking... i had 2 experiences last time around where I woke up and was sweating and had chills.. my hands were going numb too.. it was scary... i popped 3 sugar pills and i was good. those days i did not eat much throughout the day.

now a lot of guys don't care and say fuck it. but to me long term having your sleep interuppted or having those kinds of sides can catch up to you and be counter productive.

my next cycle I plan on running primo and maybe some test and stacking with an oral 4 weeks.. and then I am gonna run a calorie deficit IF type cycle to really cut down ahead of my competition. only challenge is gonna be finding primo with GO or that i can tolerate the PIP with.

you should definately run tren though, you have a helluva base and will really enjoy it.. i recommend tren hex if you are willing to pay a bit more.. its really worth it

 

[Nelson Montana]

The reason they died at an earlier age had nothing to do with their hunter gatherer eating habits. It had to do with the fact that they obviously don't have the benefits of modern medicine like we do. Historians did say they had the leanest and most muscular natural bodies in history as well.

IF actually increases life expectancy. I can post the link to that later if you'd like to see it. Right now I'm on my phone so I can't. I do have the link in my intermittent fasting discussion thread as well, but im not sure what page its on

Lots of variables. When homosapians ate most fruits and vegetables they were actually fatter. Muscular bodies didn't appear in art until the Renaissance and that was a time physicality was stressed and admired. It was't a time of famine and hunting.

A lot of the studies done are fasting are opposed to over eating. And the fasting was controlled. All I'm saying is it can create more problems than it solves , and it's senseless when a simple adjustment/lowering of calories and crap will accomplish the same thing without as much of the unpleasentness.

 

[dylangemelli]

Our ancestors conquered the world, climbing icy mountains, tracking, chasing, and slaying large and dangerous animals while fasted for many hours if not days, then gorged on the kill. They didn't awake in their caves and whip up a whey shake for breakfast to stay out of some catabolic state so they could safely preserve their muscle before embarking on the next hunt. Supplement companies would have us all believe their lies about meal frequency and shakes and potions so that they may make their billions, while we the sheeple believe those lies so long we forget how utterly simply our magnificent bodies really work.

Comments like this make me fucking cringe... People rode horses for cars too man... People listened to 8 track tapes... People used rotary phones... People only had nolva and clomid... People wore bell bottoms... People did ALL KINDS OF FUCKING SHIT... Who cares? That's why new technologies, methods, etc are developed... So things can improve... I don't give a shit what anyone did back then in terms of eating... It makes no difference... They didn't have anything we have now... So what's your point? They had a lot less to work with... So what, we should deprive ourselves because they didn't have supplements we have now? This statement just fucking sucks...

This is why I stay out of diet threads anymore because EVERYONE knows EVERYTHING... Lets put it like this... If you look like Rick does, I have to say you know a little bit of what your talking about... You don't get that way by fucking magic... I DO THIS FOR A LIVING and the fact remains that ESPECIALLY WITH DIETS, it is ALMOST ALWAYS DIFFERENT FROM PERSON TO PERSON... Cycles are much different where its pretty general... Dosages, lengths etc can be different but the amount of variables are not even close to diets... RICK AND NELSON BOTH, are two VERY VERY EXPERIENCED AND KNOWLEDGEABLE GUYS and BOTH bring up strong points either way... The problem here is that what is conducive for some won't be for others... There's way too many variables... Both have so many strong points but they can BOTH HOLD TRUE dependent upon the individual, the goals, body response etc... Every study can be refuted by another study and then by another one... I hate these fucking studies... They are always countered by another and then another... Trial and error on each body is the only way to really determine what is going to work from person to person...

I do know this to hold true... Whatever the fuck those half cavemen half gorillas did doesn't mean shit right now! =)