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Do You Have to be Ruthless to be Financially Successful?
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all the whey
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Don't get married and pump out some crumb crunchers.
all the whey said:
^^^^ key to success right there.
vixensghost
New member
"A slave has but one master; the ambitious man/woman has as many masters as there are persons whose aid may contribute to the advancement of his fortune."
Sorry, just a quote my dad use to say.
Sorry, just a quote my dad use to say.
all the whey
New member
PuddleMonkey said:
Yeah.
Besides the obvious expenses. Your head doesn't get fucked up from the drama, bitching, etc.
Bear in mind when I'm saying ruthless, the definition I'm thinking of is "pitiless: without mercy or pity."jnevin said:
I guess I'm asking what is your opinion of big companies who've moved their operations overseas, the board of directors and stockholders make big profits while long time employees in manual labor positions are left high and dry.
This actually happened to a woman I know. She was in her very late 50s and had always worked in assembly lines. The company she was with for the past 15 or so years moved to Mexico. She had a few years to wait before social security kicked in and she really tried to find a new job, but who wants to hire a nearly 60 year old woman with an 8th grade education?
all the whey
New member
MightyMouse69 said:
Same theory applies to women.
Raptorex
New member
velvett said:LOL!!!!
That's the very reason I made myself rules.
DON'T BREAK DA RULES!
I try not to. Also, I think it is wise to think as far ahead as possible, assuming your current plans will not work out. I'm particularly concerned with rising bills - I did an analysis yesterday and was shocked how much I am spending each year to live at a reasonable level in the city area. I am looking down in SC next month for property going forward where it is much cheaper to live as a retired person.
all the whey
New member
Spanky11 said:
Razorguns
Well-known member
Remaining competitive = not ruthless. It's necessary to adapt and stay alive.
To become "successful" requires many things, if you have them all - great. If just a few, good.
1. Looks
2. Age
3. Education / Skills
4. Going the extra mile
5. Positive Attitude
6. Professionalism
7. Mentors (the "mastermind alliance" if you read Napoleon Hill books)
8. Luck
9. Good morals and values (very important once you go high up)
10. Height (yes, you heard that right)
Put them all together, wrap them around a BURNING desire to be successful (ie: You CAN'T live without it. Failure is not a word you understand), train your sub-conscious to take over and deliver that goal. Then just sit back and let your subconscious do all the work for you. Telling you what to do.
It's not that hard. But training your MIND to REACH a goal (remember morals and values, don't place your goals in pure greed or vanity) and fool yourself in believing you have ALREADY reached that goal -- you will fulfill a self-fullfilling prophecy - to your BENEFIT.
Napoleon Hill and Leigh Steinberg are great authors on this. But i'm giving you a dummies 101 version of it.
Fix your life (avoid debt). Identify goals. Learn. Plan. Make it the centerpiece of your life. Then Action.
You can be successful in ANY industry. There is no "get rich" idea. That's a fallacy that the cubicle warriors of America believe in. You become tops in what you do - and people throw money at you. It's that simple.
r
To become "successful" requires many things, if you have them all - great. If just a few, good.
1. Looks
2. Age
3. Education / Skills
4. Going the extra mile
5. Positive Attitude
6. Professionalism
7. Mentors (the "mastermind alliance" if you read Napoleon Hill books)
8. Luck
9. Good morals and values (very important once you go high up)
10. Height (yes, you heard that right)
Put them all together, wrap them around a BURNING desire to be successful (ie: You CAN'T live without it. Failure is not a word you understand), train your sub-conscious to take over and deliver that goal. Then just sit back and let your subconscious do all the work for you. Telling you what to do.
It's not that hard. But training your MIND to REACH a goal (remember morals and values, don't place your goals in pure greed or vanity) and fool yourself in believing you have ALREADY reached that goal -- you will fulfill a self-fullfilling prophecy - to your BENEFIT.
Napoleon Hill and Leigh Steinberg are great authors on this. But i'm giving you a dummies 101 version of it.
Fix your life (avoid debt). Identify goals. Learn. Plan. Make it the centerpiece of your life. Then Action.
You can be successful in ANY industry. There is no "get rich" idea. That's a fallacy that the cubicle warriors of America believe in. You become tops in what you do - and people throw money at you. It's that simple.
r
Razorguns said:
Age/looks/height are intangibles that are easily canceled out by simply having a talent and a nose for risk taking. Two of my wealthiest clients are under 5'8" and NOTHING to look at. Neither went to a top school or were particularly great in the classroom either. Another is maybe 5'10", but rather heavyset, and VERY jewish looking. A fourth is tall, but extremely unattractive. All four are in their 40's.
More important than anything on your list is having a TALENT for business and a nose for risk taking - when to jump all in and when not to. You need to be a salesman, no matter what your field. If you aren't selling a product, you're selling yourself, your ability to make things happen. Not only is it important to know how and when to take risks, it's important to be able to get other people to take risks on YOU. And yeah...luck has a lot to do with it.
calveless wonder
New member
no, you don't. The most ruthless people typically never sustain your success. you double cross too many people, especially in a relatively small industry, and you're fucked.
but you DO have to be assertive and decisive.
nef nailed it.
luck is involved in being successful, but what separates those who are and who aren't and the risks they take and taking advantage of their opportunities.
i know alot of very successful people financially and they all did it by being aggressive but ethical (of course there are grey areas )
but you DO have to be assertive and decisive.
nef nailed it.
luck is involved in being successful, but what separates those who are and who aren't and the risks they take and taking advantage of their opportunities.
i know alot of very successful people financially and they all did it by being aggressive but ethical (of course there are grey areas
)
What you're saying is a truly decent person can become financially successful IF they start young enough, have enough ambition, are willing to work seriously hard, and are personable. Okay, I'll buy that.Razorguns said:
As a follow up on that thought: Do you believe a person can be highly financially successful and have a very fulfilling personal life, i.e., happy marriage, good relationship with kids?
The person you're describing is going to be putting no less than 50+ hours a week in the office (or perhaps 80+). I do not believe you can have a good relationship with your kids or spouse if you're spending most of your awake hours at work. You can have a cordial relationship with your family, certainly, but happy? Happiness, particularly when it comes to kids, means spending relaxed quality time with them.
Razorguns
Well-known member
nefertiti said:
Word
Skills Talent Risk -- all facets of being successful.
But for your typical middle aged American with mortgages, living paycheck to paycheck, debt, stress -- all this is a foreign language to them. They can't take financial risk, been doing the same monkey stuff for the last 10 years, so no unique skills, and talent - if they had any, it hasn't been exploited in years.
Hence the big market for 'get rich' schemes, dreaming in cubicles, lottery tickets, gambling, and the favorite - hating the rich.
Oh, and take care of your body. The 270lb gluttonous fat guy will always get the shaft everywhere he goes. Most leaders in America, if you look, were in good shape when they made their money. Making money is 'physically' exhausting. Don't expect to be in bed at 9 every night.
r
musclemom said:
All four of the previously mentioned guys in my other post have kids. Two are divorced and the other two have girls (around my age) on the side, but one of the two swears he loves his wife (go figure, I'm not the morality police). All four seem to be very close with their kids, though.
Razorguns
Well-known member
musclemom said:
Life is give and take.
Being successful means going the extra mile, EXCELLING at something, being LEADER at what you do.
This requires
Intelligence. Luck. Time. Money.
If you subtract one, you have to make it up in the others.
So having kids - is a give and take. That is life. Do you want kids, or do you want to be successful? We all only have 24 hours a day. Less if you still have a day job.
The "spend 2 hours a day and make on ebay and still have time for soccer practice!" is what unsavory men on late night TV sell to the masses. And they just buy it right up. They "dream".
This is why I advocate nomarriage.com. Focus first on your goals, your dreams, fulfill them first, THEN marry. I'm not married. No kids. Got lots to do first.
For you: I'd go for time. Subtract from that. That means no instant success - but if you set a goal, and give yourself 5 years to do it -- you can still achieve the same success, a single person could in 1/2 year. And you still have time for your kids.
Give and Take. Life 101.
r
I was having a hard time defining that myself, actually, which is why I left it sort of open.Smurfy said:
But I guess, for the purposes of debate, I'd say cash compensation (not counting company cars, or pensions or other benefits) of no less than $250K, I think it's a safe bet many doctors and lawyers make that kind of money and I already know how many hours they put in and what most of their personal lives are like.
all the whey
New member
nefertiti said:
It effects women more.
Women's weight found to affect job, income
Study indicates bias in marriage, career
By Raja Mishra, Globe Staff | May 28, 2005
Weight can have startling consequences for women's financial well-being, careers, and marriage prospects, according to research that found that women -- but not men -- suffer economic harm from being overweight.
The first-of-its-kind study found that the heavier the woman, the worse her financial situation will be 13 to 15 years in the future.
In fact, the effect of weight on women's fortunes was so strong, that women with high school diplomas will have the same future household income as women with a four-year college degree but who weigh twice as much, according to the study.
For men, extra weight had no impact on their earnings, careers, or marriage prospects.
Much of the economic effect of weight on women's fortunes, the study found, occurs not because of job discrimination but marriage discrimination: Heavier women are more likely to end up marrying lower-income men or to be single. In addition, the heavier the woman, the less prestigious her job is likely to be.
The data appear to underscore what social scientists and many women themselves have long asserted -- a double-standard when it comes to weight. The study for the first time gives the economic costs of this phenomenon, showing heavy women can pay a steep personal and financial price for their weight, in addition to the more widely publicized health effects.
''This is one of the core fundamental bases of gender inequality in the United States. Women are held to standards of objectified physical appearance that men are not," said New York University sociologist Dalton Conley, the study's lead author. He explained that weight worked against women as they competed to get married and secure their financial futures.
''The marriage market is where physical capital, if you want to call it that, gets converted into economic capital," said Conley. ''Marriage is an exchange relationship where men provide income, and women, in addition to child rearing, provide sexual status."
Conley and a graduate student, Rebecca Glauber, crunched data that tracked about 1,300 women and 1,100 men for up to 15 years. It is the first study to look at the socio-economic effects of body mass index, a ratio of weight to height that is the standard measure of obesity, over such duration. They looked at subjects' BMI in 1986, and then how those people fared as of 1999 and 2001.
They were able to compute that each 1 percent increase in women's BMI means a .6 percent decrease in future family income. So, a 60-pound weight difference between two 5-foot-4 women would account for a 30 percent difference in their future family incomes, such as $100,000 annually compared with $70,000. Much of this income difference occurs because the heavier women are, the poorer their spouses are likely to be, the research found. Also at work is the fact that heavier women are less likely to marry: For each 1 percent BMI increase, the prospects of matrimony decrease .35 percent. Single women tend to have lower incomes.
Basically, an overweight female will make less at her job. But, her FAMILY INCOME will be even more less than a healthy women's. The main reason is the hotter chick can get a man that makes more money, and the fat chicks can only get guys with low paying jobs.
Stay in school boys!
Razorguns
Well-known member
I have never seen a fat female VP at any company i've worked at.
They're great for those low paying monkey jobs and government jobs.
They're also extremely lazy. I once had to spend 3 weeks fighting HR, full of heifers, trying to get a damn check replaced. They were too busy yappin' away about last night's sex in the city. Way to keep up stereotypes.
r
They're great for those low paying monkey jobs and government jobs.
They're also extremely lazy. I once had to spend 3 weeks fighting HR, full of heifers, trying to get a damn check replaced. They were too busy yappin' away about last night's sex in the city. Way to keep up stereotypes.
r
all the whey
New member
Razorguns said:
Yeah.
But, the main part of the study was total household income. Fat chicks have to marry poor guys.
You see a fat chick VP more often than a fat chick with a very wealthy man.
Razorguns said:
That's why, no matter how much I sometimes get aggravated with comments like, "She just got xyz because she's pretty," No matter how hard I've worked, no matter what my diploma says and where I got it from, it is - in small part - true. And it's better to be on this side of the bias than that side. Just a fact of life.
all the whey
New member
nefertiti said:
Did you know that women now control almost 75% of the wealth in the US?
Unfortunately, nobody gave me or my current husband that lesson when we were 18. Now I am 43 and he is 54. Our total household income peaked at well under $100k a few years ago and has only been creeping down ever since. He doesn't want to start over in a new company and neither of us is willing to give up his paid time off.Razorguns said:
The only goal we've set is that when he gets old enough to cash in his 401K and pension we're pulling up stakes, selling the house, and starting over somewhere warm. The idea of retirement is out of the question and the house was a piss-poor investment from the word go. I just hope the sale makes enough to pay off the mortgage.
C'est la vie.
I'm just curious if my instincts on this issue are correct. That you make certain choices, and in our society something always suffers, either your personal life or professional success.
It seems that you can be happy personally and a devoted parent but you'll probably only ever be professionally mediocre, at best, if that's the choice you make.
Bikini Mod
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nefertiti said:
^^^ What she said. As for luck. I don't necessarily agree with that. You keep going till you "find" your own luck. I have lived that with my Old Grump since we got together and finally, it is paying off.
And I do believe you do have to be ruthless. Ruthless does not = taking advantage of other peoples' misery or compromising your morals. What is means is that you often have to make tough decisions.
all the whey
New member
nefertiti said:
You screwed up an old joke.
The punch line was...It is because they control 100% of the pussy.
Bikini Mod
New member
Smurfy said:
That's the goal for me and the Old Grump as well.
Razorguns
Well-known member
musclemom said:
Don't forget the meaning of life: Happiness.
Happiness is easy to achieve. Either have none of the money. Or all of it.
I could go to Alaska, have a hot chick, and live in a cabin for the rest of my life with a guitar - and die a happy man. Money would mean nothing to me.
..or.. achieve 'financial independence'. This is where you don't sweat bills, rent, mortgages, job stress, loans, etc.
For smart middle classers - this was easy. Getting a job in something they love (i'd advocated this from day one here). I know career military, cops, docs, lawyers, vets, shop owners, musicians who LOVE their careers. And they never had to be millionaires.
To fix one's life (which you must before you tackle on the ungodly complex task of making millions - trust me, it's a LOT of work) -- requires nothing more than sitting down and taking a good hard look at yourself.
Make goals. Make plans. Write them down. Find out what makes you happy. Research. Write down problems. Tackle them on ONE by ONE. Create a positive attitude that all those problems ARE solved. Your subconcious will work with you and figure out the answers one by one. While you remain focused on just enjoying life.
Once all that is cleared up. THEN you can focus on more complex tasks - like trying to make gobs of money. I could never write a song, or shoot a film - if I was always worried about a car payment, or hating a day job.
It's not hard. Just takes time and patience and resolve to NOT ACCEPT YOUR CURRENT REALITY.
The last part is something one should tattoo on their heart and ingrain in their subconsious.
r
velvett said:
Uh huh, go on.....
you just need to understand the nature of the business you are in. Recognizing opportunity and acting upon it is a skill one develops like any other.
Also cutting overhead is a huge proponent of successful business. I outsource all my data input overseas. Utilize as many cheap advertising techiques as possible. look for any kickback to institute in my company no matter how small it is. etc..
opportunity is around all of us. you just cant let fear and stupidity get in the way of seizing it.
Also cutting overhead is a huge proponent of successful business. I outsource all my data input overseas. Utilize as many cheap advertising techiques as possible. look for any kickback to institute in my company no matter how small it is. etc..
opportunity is around all of us. you just cant let fear and stupidity get in the way of seizing it.
No, not at all.
I wouldnt consider myself financially successful in the way you are probably thinking, but I get along just fine...and I know that if I keep going at this rate I will reach a level of financial "success" that I think many people would be comfortable with. Nothing major, but respectable. Nor I or the people I work with (who make much more than I do) are cutthroat in any way. Im getting to be successful by treating my clients well and by making sure the people that work for me are successful. If they make money, I make money.
But yeah, it depends on your line of work.
I wouldnt consider myself financially successful in the way you are probably thinking, but I get along just fine...and I know that if I keep going at this rate I will reach a level of financial "success" that I think many people would be comfortable with. Nothing major, but respectable. Nor I or the people I work with (who make much more than I do) are cutthroat in any way. Im getting to be successful by treating my clients well and by making sure the people that work for me are successful. If they make money, I make money.
But yeah, it depends on your line of work.
S
Spartacus
Guest
If you have to be ruthless and/or screw others over to make a buck
you will never have enough
you will never have enough
chazk said:
Does Green Day do a cover of that song now? I've heard it a few times and it sounds like them until the last line "If you want to be a hero then just follow me" that sounds like Lennon or either a damn good impersonation of him.
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"The harder I work, the luckier I become."
BIKINIMOM said:
It has nothing to do with luck. You want something, get it. Go get it. Do whatever it takes. Get what you want. That's how I think about it.
musclemom said:
Not at all, some of the wealthiest richest people in the world are the worlds biggest philantropists aswell, giving alot back to the community.
I think sometimes the better a person is more generous and whatnot, the easier they find ways to wealth.
like the laws of prosperity give back to recieve more etc etc yadda yadda.
but seriously alot of the richest people in the world also give the most away to help others, so I can't deem them as ruthless under any circumstance.
Razorguns
Well-known member
FriendlyCanadian said:
word
With great riches, comes great responsibility.
If I ever became ungodly rich - I'd probably just give most of it away. What am I going to do with $2.2 billion???
Give it away. I'd probably create a cost-effective alternative to public schools (been designing some plans already), cost-effective access to foreign medical treatment, more $ incentives for companies worldwide to work together and combat diseases, and scholarships for kids who want to become doctors, but come from poor homes who can't afford the skyrocketing medical tuition rates. All with no emphasis on profit or ROI in mind.
Stuff like that. A person with money can make those changes.
r
S
Spartacus
Guest
I see dead people
time
your 24 hours in a day
all the same
we live most ofour lives in our own head
time
your 24 hours in a day
all the same
we live most ofour lives in our own head
chazk
New member
yes green day did a cover, of lennon's working class hero.hanselthecaretaker said:
watch the orginal , The orginal song is mind blowing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njG7p6CSbCU
Last edited:
GoldenDelicious
New member
ruthless has a lot of negative connotations ie that you fuck people over. personally i think that its more important to be competent, able, calculated, and mostly AWARE.
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the_alcatraz said:
Exactly.
"Success is going from one failure to the next without losing your enthusiasm." - Sir Winston Churchill
Yea the guy was a drunk, but damn he said some smart shtuff.
Being in the right place at the right time, having the balls to sieze the moment and take some risk... what people don't realize is how many times you got fucked by having the opposite occur.
Nobody ever talks about their failures, which is a shame I think. Because EVERYBODY makes mistakes and everybody has their less than successfull moments.
Even my Old Grump hates it when I tell people that I married him when he had NOTHING... well monetarily, that is. No cash, no assets and he was in a TERRIBLE spot (will withhold specifics because I respect his privacy). But what he DID HAVE was his mind and his character and my God - you wanna talk BALLZ... Everyone who knows my husband and what he went through can not get over his 10 ton kohonez... and me for sticking by him through all of it, kicking his ass when he needed it and holding his hand when he needed that. I was fukkin hard on him, no doubt. Sometimes, I think... maybe too hard. I can't take back the past. He was hard on me too sometimes, but generally he let me find my own way, in my own time.
We balance each other out quite make and make a helluva team. Every project that we have tackled together has had SOME positive result, if only just the connections that we made and the experience that we gained to get us to "the next level".
But yes, we had to make some very tough decisions along the way. <--- therein lies the "ruthless" part. Once you have the money then you can afford to be less so.... but still it is generally your benefit or not. The "or not" part sometimes means that someone else will NOT benefit.
musclemom said:
Define "ruthless". If it means making the hard decisions (like you said "we don't want to give up his current job" - that is a decision), then yes, absolutely, a person HAS to be willing to change, move out of the comfort zone, try new things, follow the dream/plan/goal, MAKE the dream/plan/goal, take risks within reason, learn enough (not usually school) to do a proper risk/reward analysis on any decision, etc, etc.
If "ruthless" is defined as "user", then no, this person may achieve short-term success, but wastes the capital necessary to really achieve in life.
As far as sacrificing family - I believe I read in a study at one point that the top 5% of people are usually (over 90%) with their first spouse, happily married with children. (It was a study of corporate CEO's.)
For your friend with the grade 8 education and the moving company - admittedly, the decision the company made hurt her. Is she "ruthless" enough with herself to move on? To move out of the mindset she is in, to make whatever sacrifices are necessary to get to where she needs to be? A woman in good health at 55 has a very strong statistical chance of living to 90+. She has over half of her working life left! Sandra Day O'Connor - she was HOW old when she went back to school - and went on to the Supreme Court in the course of her career?
So "ruthless" - yes, absolutely, WITH YOURSELF.
BIKINIMOM said:
You make some very strong points.
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wlmcrae said:
EXCELLENT POST AND 100% DEAD ON.
... and that ain't stuff I read in some book somewhere or learned in college. I HAVE LIVED IT.
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