Misconceptions and Errors in Thought On Nolvadex (Tamoxifen)

[Machiavelli]

You make a valid point, but the discussion about A50s causing cancer is more of a comparison. We have people complaining about "side effects" of a few mgs of nolva, while they forget that steroids have some nasty side effects. We shouldn't forget we are on a steroid forum and side effects are just a part of the business.

i dont think accepting side effects is part of business, i think avoiding them is. the whole point of pct is to avoid side effects. why take something that just gives more sides?

 

[Jbranken]

I think when it comes to your dick not working.. and the possibility of fluid leaking from your nipples.. it is better to be safe than sorry.

You can show me a million studies that says it's a myth.. but when it comes to Nolva with Tren or Nandrolone.. count me out.

That's how I feel about it. Im in no way saying that if someone uses nolva along side of a 19nor or in pct after a cycle including a 19nor that they'll inevitably get gyno, but after reviewing study after study, the scientific fact is that nolva does increase expression of the progesterone receptor. Knowing that I'm susceptible to gyno, ill steer clear of the combo. If you're someone who isn't normally prone then go ahead and roll the dice. If it works out for you then congrats, you're lucky, but that doesn't mean it won't effect others negatively.

 

[El Hefe]

People are always referring to the side effects of Nolva. 99% of the time, the side effect they're referring to is an emotional side effect.

I believe that's a very minor side effect and guys should be able to control their emotions - even on a serm.

Hell, aggression is an emotional side or by product of increased Test and we seem to manage. We don't run around killing people. We handle our sh1t.

And we shouldn't run around acting like girls because of a serm.

So, considering the numerous benefits of Nolva, and the very few sides, it can be very useful. Albeit not in every cycle or PCT, but it definitely has a place.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

i dont think accepting side effects is part of business, i think avoiding them is. the whole point of pct is to avoid side effects. why take something that just gives more sides?

You're right, we are trying to avoid side effects; but in this game - no matter how much you try, you'll still get some sides. You can use all the AIs and diuretics you want, but you'll still get bloated from A50 use.

The whole point of this thread is to shed light on how tamox has been bashed to death without clear evidence or reason - over a claim of sides that pale in comparison to the side effects of anabolics we so often forget to discuss.

 

[Machiavelli]

You're right, we are trying to avoid side effects; but in this game - no matter how much you try, you'll still get some sides. You can use all the AIs and diuretics you want, but you'll still get bloated from A50 use.

The whole point of this thread is to shed light on how tamox has been bashed to death without clear evidence or reason - over a claim of sides that pale in comparison to the side effects of anabolics we so often forget to discuss.

yeah but anabolics build muscle .

 

[ceo]

You make a valid point, but the discussion about A50s causing cancer is more of a comparison. We have people complaining about "side effects" of a few mgs of nolva, while they forget that steroids have some nasty side effects. We shouldn't forget we are on a steroid forum and side effects are just a part of the business.

Now they cause cancer?!

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

Now they cause cancer?!

just saw this thread (must have missed it)....


Since oxymetholone was listed in the First Annual Report on Carcinogens, additional case reports, primarily of liver cancer, have been identified. Some of the reports were of patients with Fanconi’s anemia who developed leukemia, liver cancer, or esophageal cancer following oxymetholone treatment (IARC 1987, Linares et al. 1991); Fanconi’s anemia patients are at increased risk for acute myeloid leukemia and squamous-cell carcinoma of the head, neck, and ano-genital regions (Auerbach 2009). Case reports of liver cancer and one report of bile-duct cancer (ampullary carcinoma) also have been reported in patients undergoing oxymetholone treatment for other conditions (Kosaka et al. 1996, Nakao et al. 2000, Fujino et al. 2001, Socas et al. 2005).


..........a cancer study in rats has been identified. Administration of oxymetholone by stomach tube increased the combined incidence of benign and malignant liver tumors hepatocellular adenoma and carcinoma) in female rats. Benign lung tumors and benign and malignant skin tumors in female rats also were considered to be related to oxymetholone exposure (NTP 1999)

 

[stevesmi]

if i was prone to cancer i would not want to put anything in my body that caused any type of anabolism or growth. this would include certain foods, certain drugs, or yes hormones. obviously carcinogens and other environmental factors have a huge effect as well.

 

[ceo]

if i was prone to cancer i would not want to put anything in my body that caused any type of anabolism or growth. this would include certain foods, certain drugs, or yes hormones. obviously carcinogens and other environmental factors have a huge effect as well.

Especially if you were already sick and had a weak immune system. Then you really wouldn't want to take those drugs for, oh I don't know...like 9 years.

My point still stands. Throwing the same types of studies at it doesn't change anything.

 

[northernknight]

Tamoxifen is carcinogenic, so IMO it's strange to bring up A50 theoretically causing cancer as comparison to Nolva side effects. Just something I picked up from gazillion posts bashing Nolva, it doesn't cause cancer just in theory, but it's actual registered carcinogen (by USA FDA I suppose, don't remember specifically). I don't think Oxymethelone is officially listed carcinogenic same way like Nolva is. Not sure about this though, I could be wrong.
Everything linking it to cancer is just some very feeble studies conducted to subjects that were already pre exposed bc. of weakend immune system etc. I think those studies would have had same outcome if instead of Oxymethelone patients would have been treated for example with Oxadrolone, or any other similar drug. I just picked Anavar since it's usually considered "safe" and mild compound.

I still have nothing against Nolva, many things are carcinogenic to some degree just something that I didn't notice mentioned in this thread. It definitely has it's own place, and I personally always preferred it over Clomid. Now days I just keep it on hand in case of gyno flare up, or to run along side with AI if there's need to be extra cautious for some reason.

If I wasn't on TRT and would still use SERM in my PCT, I would try out some more recent SERMs like Torem or Ralox in place of Nolva/Clomid. What I have red about them, it seems that they both would work great for PCT.

Just my opinion/opinions.

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