Misconceptions and Errors in Thought On Nolvadex (Tamoxifen)

[dylangemelli]

I just want to start off by saying that I, like every other human, am not perfect... One of the things that has set me apart in my life and allowed me to become what I am now is my willingness to learn, listen and admit when I am wrong... This board turned into an anti Nolva board for many reasons that I will abstain from getting into... I fell into this trap as well, admittedly, after only trying it once and not doing enough of my own research into it... I still am under the firm belief that nolva alone is not enough for pct but there are FAR MORE instances and indications that it has MULTIPLE benefits that not... A lot of the problem is that either people abuse the dosage or do not understand how to utilize it properly... It should not be depended upon as a main source of a pct but it does have its place... It just needs to be ran along with other products to make a through and complete recovery... Nolva also has a very strong place when it comes to treating and preventing gyno... Running it in conjunction with letro is a very strong combination and there are far more that can vouch for this...

Nolvadex actually has quite a few applications for the steroid using athlete. First and foremost, its most common use is for the prevention of gynocomastia. Nolvadex does this by actually competing for the receptor site in breast tissue, and binding to it. Thus, we can safely say that the effect of tamoxifen is through estrogen receptor blockade of breast tissue, especially since total body estradiol increases with use of tamoxifen. Clearly, if you are on a cycle which includes steroids which convert to estrogen, you may want to consider nolvadex as a good choice to run along side them.

Nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed. If you take Nolvadex after a cycle, when you are trying to raise your levels of testosterone, LH, and FSH back to normal, it will greatly aid recovery. If you want a comparison, it would require 150mgs of clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in testosterone, but nolvadex also significantly increased the LH response to LHRL after 6 weeks.

There are possible side effects with nolva. The main problem is that it can be linked to reduced gains because it is possible that it could reduce IGF levels. This is why it should not be fully depended upon for a complete pct and should be ran at the proper dosage. Generally I would recommend 40/20/20/20 and running it in conjunction with clomid at 50/50/25/25. Then you throw in the excellent products like unleashed/post cycle or hcgenerate and phytoserms and you are on a serious recovery and keeping gains in pct.

For more in depth information, please go to Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) use with Anabolic Steroids and read the excellent writeup by my boy WolfPackAlpha...


I want to apologize for being wrong in the past but I feel like I should admit my mistakes and educate everyone on proper usage... Noone is always 100% right (even though at times we like to think that) but learning is an everyday process... I hope that I have helped you in some way with this information... You know I am always here for all of you, whenever you need anything! I have always given you guys my best knowledge and feel like I always owe you my very best... I have devoted as much time as I can to help each and every one of you and that is why I am bringing new and updated facts for all of you... Keep working hard and pm me with any questions that you may have...

 

[bonacris]

You dont owe anyone an apology. I still believe that the OTC products help me recover better than clomid nolva. I would still stand by that advice. Nolva has Its place to get rid of gyno

Sent from my GT-N7100 using EliteFitness

 

[Jbranken]

You dont owe anyone an apology. I still believe that the OTC products help me recover better than clomid nolva. I would still stand by that advice. Nolva has Its place to get rid of gyno

Sent from my GT-N7100 using EliteFitness

Agreed, and great post dylan. I've always said that serms do have a specific purpose in pct, but its gambling with your recovery when solely relying on them. There is much more to pct than just serms

 

[dylangemelli]

thanks guys... absolutely... they ALL have their place in pct... its when just one thing is solely relied upon, there is where the problem occurs, but when utilized in conjunction, there is a very strong recovery...

 

[Mr.GoodNice]

I applaud that somebody with your knowledge and experience is still open minded and not absorbed by their own ego. Respect.

 

[dylangemelli]

I applaud that somebody with your knowledge and experience is still open minded and not absorbed by their own ego. Respect.

thank you bro, i truly appreciate that...

 

[stevesmi]

the whole 19nor mixing with nolva does have merit. i know a guy just recently who used nolva in pct after a 19nor run and he got gyno while on the nolva during pct. but since this doesn't occur with everyone (some guys can do everything wrong and never ever get gyno no matter what) and there aren't 'studies' a lot of people believe this to be a myth. but it does happen to guys and has happened to plenty of guys on here

the problem is like you said Dylan everyone is different. for me nolva did not recover me and made me feel shitty on pct. so i won't recommend it over other pct's. but that is just me. someone else can do nolva and love it, hey if it works and you believe it works, then go for it.

i know hcg will raise total T and smash LH. but it is temporary. does the nolva raise LH permanently or do you crash right after stopping it? if so then it should be used as a stop gap during pct to artificially raise LH, but i wouldn't depend on it to recover at all like you said

 

[dylangemelli]

the whole 19nor mixing with nolva does have merit. i know a guy just recently who used nolva in pct after a 19nor run and he got gyno while on the nolva during pct. but since this doesn't occur with everyone (some guys can do everything wrong and never ever get gyno no matter what) and there aren't 'studies' a lot of people believe this to be a myth. but it does happen to guys and has happened to plenty of guys on here

the problem is like you said Dylan everyone is different. for me nolva did not recover me and made me feel shitty on pct. so i won't recommend it over other pct's. but that is just me. someone else can do nolva and love it, hey if it works and you believe it works, then go for it.

I absolutely agree... I would not run it with any 19-nors and would not solely depend upon it for pct... It does have a lot of benefit that is being overlooked but definitely, different people respond to different things

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

IMO, there is a lot of misconceptions about the use of Tamoxifen, and a lot of "broscience" parroted on the forums with negativity about it's use. We tend to forget that this is a steroid forum, people use anabolic steroids here not whey protein and granola bars - guys are talking about trenbolone + anadrol cycles (Anadrol is linked to cancer!). At the same time, the same 'good' bros are saying tamoxifen is "dangerous", how's that possible? Let's face it, everything we do comes with a level of risk, we have to face that fact.

Furthermore, I've taken 100s of clients through Nolvadex+Aromasin PCT runs with amazing results (+/- HCG/IGF-1 depends on the person).

 

[El Hefe]

It's nice to see this board warm up a little to Nolva.

I personally believe a large part of the negativity surrounding Clomid and Nolva comes from the difficult period in which they're used - PCT.

Even with a good, dynamic PCT, most feel like sh1t compared to the peak of their cycle. I think this skews their judgement towards Nolva and Clomid. Of course there are some who are very sensitive to Serms (and may feel poorly even on a low dose). But I think a lot of those cases are due to higher doses.

Placebo also plays a role in PCT. if your using 10 different things, some guys will be so stoked that they have all bases covered. If your not in the right mind set, you'll lose.

I always keep Nolva on hand, but don't always use it. For me, Nolva works GREAT at stopping gyno or pre-gyno symptoms. I went over 10 years and never experienced a single gyno symptom. Now, I experience pre-gyno symptoms with almost every cycle.

I use an AI to control estrogen, but I usually start low and adjust the dose as I go so that I don't crash. Well, sometimes during the cycle or into PCT, gyno symptoms begin. I'll take 20 mg of Nolva and by the 2nd day, everything's good. Im always impressed at how well and fast it works. At this time, I'm also increasing my AI dose (because Nolva doesn't reduce estrogen) and slowly tapering (2 weeks) off the Nolva so there is no rebound. The Nolva is so fast and effective in this situation that I see not reason for any other protocol.

I used to use Nolva in PCT and somewhere along the line I stopped and only used Clomid (along with other stuff). At the time it seemed like Clomid was a superior serm and I didn't see the need for both.

Well, in a recent PCT I tried using both Nolva and Clomid like in the old days. It wasn't my original intention. I usually run a 4 week PCT with maybe a slow 2 week tapering down of the serm(s). I feel this greatly reduces the crash and eases me off with high test levels.

My intent was to use Clomid only (with a bunch if other crap). But 2 weeks into PCT, I started experiencing gyno symptoms. So, as mentioned above, I immediately took 20 mg of Nolva and upped the AI. Of course, within 2 days, I felt great.

At this point, I decided to change the PCT a little towards the old school method. Ultimately I ran Clomid for 4 weeks and Nolva for 4 weeks with 2 weeks overlapping of the 2 serms.

As usual, I felt good on low dose Clomid (I usually run 50/25/25/12/12), nuts were full and functioning, etc. but the noteworthy part is that when I started the Nolva, there was an additional boost. Yes, I actually felt better than when I ran the Comid alone. Part of this is due to the fact that Clomid and Nolva act on different receptors and effect the feedback loop differently.

Nolva, maybe it's worth a second look.