Misconceptions and Errors in Thought On Nolvadex (Tamoxifen)

[dylangemelli]

It's nice to see this board warm up a little to Nolva.

I personally believe a large part of the negativity surrounding Clomid and Nolva comes from the difficult period in which they're used - PCT.

Even with a good, dynamic PCT, most feel like sh1t compared to the peak of their cycle. I think this skews their judgement towards Nolva and Clomid. Of course there are some who are very sensitive to Serms (and may feel poorly even on a low dose). But I think a lot of those cases are due to higher doses.

Placebo also plays a role in PCT. if your using 10 different things, some guys will be so stoked that they have all bases covered. If your not in the right mind set, you'll lose.

I always keep Nolva on hand, but don't always use it. For me, Nolva works GREAT at stopping gyno or pre-gyno symptoms. I went over 10 years and never experienced a single gyno symptom. Now, I experience pre-gyno symptoms with almost every cycle.

I use an AI to control estrogen, but I usually start low and adjust the dose as I go so that I don't crash. Well, sometimes during the cycle or into PCT, gyno symptoms begin. I'll take 20 mg of Nolva and by the 2nd day, everything's good. Im always impressed at how well and fast it works. At this time, I'm also increasing my AI dose (because Nolva doesn't reduce estrogen) and slowly tapering (2 weeks) off the Nolva so there is no rebound. The Nolva is so fast and effective in this situation that I see not reason for any other protocol.

I used to use Nolva in PCT and somewhere along the line I stopped and only used Clomid (along with other stuff). At the time it seemed like Clomid was a superior serm and I didn't see the need for both.

Well, in a recent PCT I tried using both Nolva and Clomid like in the old days. It wasn't my original intention. I usually run a 4 week PCT with maybe a slow 2 week tapering down of the serm(s). I feel this greatly reduces the crash and eases me off with high test levels.

My intent was to use Clomid only (with a bunch if other crap). But 2 weeks into PCT, I started experiencing gyno symptoms. So, as mentioned above, I immediately took 20 mg of Nolva and upped the AI. Of course, within 2 days, I felt great.

At this point, I decided to change the PCT a little towards the old school method. Ultimately I ran Clomid for 4 weeks and Nolva for 4 weeks with 2 weeks overlapping of the 2 serms.

As usual, I felt good on low dose Clomid (I usually run 50/25/25/12/12), nuts were full and functioning, etc. but the noteworthy part is that when I started the Nolva, there was an additional boost. Yes, I actually felt better than when I ran the Comid alone. Part of this is due to the fact that Clomid and Nolva act on different receptors and effect the feedback loop differently.

Nolva, maybe it's worth a second look.

Nice post bro... I like how you did a trial and error and found what worked for you... I feel that it needs to be ran in conjunction with clomid and ran properly with others to really shine and work as it is supposed to... Thank you for the info on your experience...

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

I just want to start off by saying that I, like every other human, am not perfect... One of the things that has set me apart in my life and allowed me to become what I am now is my willingness to learn, listen and admit when I am wrong... This board turned into an anti Nolva board for many reasons that I will abstain from getting into... I fell into this trap as well, admittedly, after only trying it once and not doing enough of my own research into it... I still am under the firm belief that nolva alone is not enough for pct but there are FAR MORE instances and indications that it has MULTIPLE benefits that not... A lot of the problem is that either people abuse the dosage or do not understand how to utilize it properly... It should not be depended upon as a main source of a pct but it does have its place... It just needs to be ran along with other products to make a through and complete recovery... Nolva also has a very strong place when it comes to treating and preventing gyno... Running it in conjunction with letro is a very strong combination and there are far more that can vouch for this...


I want to apologize for being wrong in the past but I feel like I should admit my mistakes and educate everyone on proper usage... Noone is always 100% right (even though at times we like to think that) but learning is an everyday process... I hope that I have helped you in some way with this information... You know I am always here for all of you, whenever you need anything! I have always given you guys my best knowledge and feel like I always owe you my very best... I have devoted as much time as I can to help each and every one of you and that is why I am bringing new and updated facts for all of you... Keep working hard and pm me with any questions that you may have...

^^^^much respect bro

 

[Oatmeal12]

Thanks for clearing this up dylangemelli! No need for apologies, We are all here to learn.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

Thanks for clearing this up dylangemelli! No need for apologies, We are all here to learn.

Dylan really went outside the box with this thread, he's a real stand up bro. True asset to the community.

 

[phil34]

Dylan really went outside the box with this thread, he's a real stand up bro. True asset to the community.

Well said wolfpack.

 

[dylangemelli]

thank you guys, i truly appreciate it...

 

[superturkey]

Wow what a turnaround for Nolva!

I have a question regarding the following:

1) Taking Nolva during cycle will not lower estrogen, but will keep estrogen from binding to receptors allowing one to run it in conjunction with multiple aromatising compounds without any issue. Since estrogen is necessary to build muscle, Nolvadex can be used on cycle to maximize gains without lowering estrogen and hindering muscle gain.

That being said, could one allow a moderate level of aromatase so estrogen is still produced to help build mass. While the nolva is blocking any gyno related side affcts.

In other words could you lower your AI dose to allow for some E and be safe from gyno using nolva?

Iv'e always wondered if i'm hindering my gains running 12.5 mg Aromasin EOD from day 1

 

[Lou Super Man 123]

could you lower your AI dose to allow for some E and be safe from gyno using nolva?

Iv'e always wondered if i'm hindering my gains running 12.5 mg Aromasin EOD from day 1

Any AI hinder gains, they also increase the risk of cardiovascular damage.

Each cycle has its history but AI's are definitely something to avoid, I would name them as "A call of emergency", I don't like how people is taking AI's as a must, that's just not correct.

People always take visible sides as important, testicles shrinkage, hair lose, gyno but what about invisible sides? what about clogged arteries for instance?

I will risk to sound heretic but I'm gonna take this board as a sample and say that most folks out there don't understand AI's, they are satisfied with the phrase "AI's lower estrogen by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme", I'm scared on how less of 1% of the guys running cycles or wanting to, have no idea what the sides of AI's are.

As for your first question, I would say that if you are taking an AI just because you wanted to, Nolva or no Nolva, you should take a very low dose, about 1/8 of mg.

The other day I saw a newbie here recommending to take up and more of 1 mg of Arimidex a day, I wanted to open my window and throw me down.

If anyone is thinking of asking me for a source: I'm short of time so I would recommend you to download an EAA's book (A respectable one) and read it.

Please don't ban me for promoting piracy LOL

 

[superturkey]

Any AI hinder gains, they also increase the risk of cardiovascular damage.

Each cycle has its history but AI's are definitely something to avoid, I would name them as "A call of emergency", I don't like how people is taking AI's as a must, that's just not correct.

People always take visible sides as important, testicles shrinkage, hair lose, gyno but what about invisible sides? what about clogged arteries for instance?

I will risk to sound heretic but I'm gonna take this board as a sample and say that most folks out there don't understand AI's, they are satisfied with the phrase "AI's lower estrogen by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme", I'm scared on how less of 1% of the guys running cycles or wanting to, have no idea what the sides of AI's are.

As for your first question, I would say that if you are taking an AI just because you wanted to, Nolva or no Nolva, you should take a very low dose, about 1/8 of mg.

The other day I saw a newbie here recommending to take up and more of 1 mg of Arimidex a day, I wanted to open my window and throw me down.

If anyone is thinking of asking me for a source: I'm short of time so I would recommend you to download an EAA's book (A respectable one) and read it.

Please don't ban me for promoting piracy LOL

Interesting, your correct I've never bothered to look into the negative sides of AI's.
Because the sides of high estrogen seem a lot worse than running no AI.

1/8 mg Aromasin EOD? This is the first I have heard of such a small dose.

But I am interested in knowing how to keep estrogen at a good level for growth, but low enough to keep bloat and gyno away.

Is low dosing an effective way of doing this?

 

[Lou Super Man 123]

1/8 mg Aromasin EOD?

Hey man, how you doing?
I don't know Aromasin, I was saying 1/8 mg of Arimidex EOD but for those using it from day 1 (1/4 mg tops), for treating gyno is another dose.

But I am interested in knowing how to keep estrogen at a good level for growth, but low enough to keep bloat and gyno away.
Is low dosing an effective way of doing this?

It all depends on how your body reacts, I would say that you need to know how your body reacts and that means not using AI's or SERMS during your cycle, there is no need to take drugs when you don't need it, the less drugs the better but if you really don't want to do that and you just want to sleep in peace while doing your cycle then yeah, a low dosed AI with or without Tamoxifen is a very nice idea.

For me, I would use Tamoxifen without an AI and I would have a blood work in between the cycle to check everything including estrogen levels, then I will know if adding an AI is a must or not.

You see, getting bloated, fat and big boobed is not funny but getting high LDL/low HDL is not fun either.

Blood works are your best friends