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Chondromalacia of Patella
- Thread starter Temple
- Start date
Arioch
New member
“Alternative” methods of treatment.
Note: There is not a lot of research regarding the use of AAS in healing or their effects on connective tissue. There is a lack of general information on the part of both researchers and practicitioners, poor study methodology where the authors fail to control enough variables or use insufficient dosages, to say nothing of the fact that, at least in the US, they are often viewed as “renegade drugs” and some “researchers” may just be trying to prove that they do not work. The individuals in the latter group are probably members of the Flat Earth Society in good standing.
There have been quite a few studies performed on animal models, including the earlier categorizing of AAS using the levator ani of the rat. But extrapolation to humans is often difficult and is quite limited for obvious reasons. “Extrapolating from current research provides some insight, but whether anabolic steroid use is beneficial remains unclear.” (1)
While various forms of AAS, and one in particular, have a reputation that they promote recovery from injuries, there are no human studies to support accelerated healing of connective tissue. Some animal studies suggest that short-term low dose AS administration may increase the collagen fibril diameter and thus strength of new collagen (2,3,4). It has been demonstrated that a six week course of AAS produced a stiffer tendon in exercised rats that failed with less elongation and energy than control groups (5). The ultrastructural changes in tendon morphology of the AAS+exercise subjects varied with an insignificant trend towards larger fibril diameters. These results contrast those reported by other authors (6,7) who observed changes in collagen fibril crimp angle and fiber length.
Deca
Wonder drug or wonder why it works? In a direct comparison with corticosteroids, nandrolone was shown that it “may aid in the healing of muscle contusion injury to speed the recovery of force-generating capacity.” (8) The exact mechanism of this action is unclear, but perhaps due to the ability of nandrolone to enhance insulin-dependant glucose uptake (9) it may assist in the removal of glycation and oxidative products. Furthermore, connective tissue injuries often result in fluid imbalances within the joint, and deca has long been known to promote water retention at the joints, often being used by athletes for just this purpose (including the author) to allow them to train without pain and actually improve performance. If one were going to experiment with deca, the shortest acting ester should be used to minimize accumulation of side effects.
1. Haupt HA. The role of anabolic steroids as modifiers of sports-induced inflammation: Clinical and Basic Science Concepts. Leadbetter WB, Buckwalter JA, Gordon SL, eds. 1989. American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons.
2. Karpakka JA, Pesola MK, Takala TE. The effect of anabolic steroids on collagen synthesis in rat skeletal muscle and tendon. A preliminary report. Am J Sports Med 1992; 20:262-266.
3. Wright JK, Smith AJ, Cawston TE, Hazelman BL. The effect of anabolic steroids on the production of procollagenase by human synovial and skin fibroblasts in vitro. Agents Actions 1989; 28:279-282.
4. Michna H. Collagen fibril dynamics in the annulus fibrosus induced by anabolic steroid hormone. Acta Anat (Basel) 1989; 135:12-16.
5. Inhofe PD, Grana WA, Egle D, et al. The effects of anabolic steroids on rat tendon. An ultrastructural, biomechanical and biochemical analysis. Am J Sports Med 1995; 23:227-232.
6. Wood TO, Cooke PH, Goodship AE. The effect of exercise and anabolic steroids on the mechanical properties and crimp morphology of rat tendon. Am J Sports Med 1988; 16:153-158.
7. Michna H. Tendon injuries induced by exercise and anabolic steroids in experimental mice. Int Orthop 1987; 11:157-162.
8. Biener JM, Jokl P, et al. The effect of anabolic steroids and corticosteroids on healing of muscle contusion injury. Am J Sports Med 27(1):2-9 1999 Jan-Feb
9. Nandrolone, a 19-nortestosterone, enhances insulin-independent glucose uptake in normal men. Hobbs CJ, Jones RE, Plymate SR. Department of Clinical Investigation, Madigan Army Medical Center, Tacoma Washington 98431, USA
Note: There is not a lot of research regarding the use of AAS in healing or their effects on connective tissue. There is a lack of general information on the part of both researchers and practicitioners, poor study methodology where the authors fail to control enough variables or use insufficient dosages, to say nothing of the fact that, at least in the US, they are often viewed as “renegade drugs” and some “researchers” may just be trying to prove that they do not work. The individuals in the latter group are probably members of the Flat Earth Society in good standing.
There have been quite a few studies performed on animal models, including the earlier categorizing of AAS using the levator ani of the rat. But extrapolation to humans is often difficult and is quite limited for obvious reasons. “Extrapolating from current research provides some insight, but whether anabolic steroid use is beneficial remains unclear.” (1)
While various forms of AAS, and one in particular, have a reputation that they promote recovery from injuries, there are no human studies to support accelerated healing of connective tissue. Some animal studies suggest that short-term low dose AS administration may increase the collagen fibril diameter and thus strength of new collagen (2,3,4). It has been demonstrated that a six week course of AAS produced a stiffer tendon in exercised rats that failed with less elongation and energy than control groups (5). The ultrastructural changes in tendon morphology of the AAS+exercise subjects varied with an insignificant trend towards larger fibril diameters. These results contrast those reported by other authors (6,7) who observed changes in collagen fibril crimp angle and fiber length.
Deca
Wonder drug or wonder why it works? In a direct comparison with corticosteroids, nandrolone was shown that it “may aid in the healing of muscle contusion injury to speed the recovery of force-generating capacity.” (8) The exact mechanism of this action is unclear, but perhaps due to the ability of nandrolone to enhance insulin-dependant glucose uptake (9) it may assist in the removal of glycation and oxidative products. Furthermore, connective tissue injuries often result in fluid imbalances within the joint, and deca has long been known to promote water retention at the joints, often being used by athletes for just this purpose (including the author) to allow them to train without pain and actually improve performance. If one were going to experiment with deca, the shortest acting ester should be used to minimize accumulation of side effects.
1. Haupt HA. The role of anabolic steroids as modifiers of sports-induced inflammation: Clinical and Basic Science Concepts. Leadbetter WB, Buckwalter JA, Gordon SL, eds. 1989. American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons.
2. Karpakka JA, Pesola MK, Takala TE. The effect of anabolic steroids on collagen synthesis in rat skeletal muscle and tendon. A preliminary report. Am J Sports Med 1992; 20:262-266.
3. Wright JK, Smith AJ, Cawston TE, Hazelman BL. The effect of anabolic steroids on the production of procollagenase by human synovial and skin fibroblasts in vitro. Agents Actions 1989; 28:279-282.
4. Michna H. Collagen fibril dynamics in the annulus fibrosus induced by anabolic steroid hormone. Acta Anat (Basel) 1989; 135:12-16.
5. Inhofe PD, Grana WA, Egle D, et al. The effects of anabolic steroids on rat tendon. An ultrastructural, biomechanical and biochemical analysis. Am J Sports Med 1995; 23:227-232.
6. Wood TO, Cooke PH, Goodship AE. The effect of exercise and anabolic steroids on the mechanical properties and crimp morphology of rat tendon. Am J Sports Med 1988; 16:153-158.
7. Michna H. Tendon injuries induced by exercise and anabolic steroids in experimental mice. Int Orthop 1987; 11:157-162.
8. Biener JM, Jokl P, et al. The effect of anabolic steroids and corticosteroids on healing of muscle contusion injury. Am J Sports Med 27(1):2-9 1999 Jan-Feb
9. Nandrolone, a 19-nortestosterone, enhances insulin-independent glucose uptake in normal men. Hobbs CJ, Jones RE, Plymate SR. Department of Clinical Investigation, Madigan Army Medical Center, Tacoma Washington 98431, USA
Arioch
New member
Box squatting is even easier on the knees. A very good article written by the Master:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls9.htm
Another on squatting:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
And another:
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/box-squat.htm
Since you (Temple) stated that your quads develop quickly and everything else is lacking, this is a VERY viable alternative.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls9.htm
Another on squatting:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
And another:
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/box-squat.htm
Since you (Temple) stated that your quads develop quickly and everything else is lacking, this is a VERY viable alternative.
Temple01 said:I am sitting here on the verge of tears after seeing the Ortho this am - and I NEVER cry.
The above was the diagnosis of my knee problems with the additional
softening of the cartilage which may be the laymens term for the above.
The basics of the conversation were"
(he is looking at me like I am a mutant as he is saying this)
Why do you want to squats and press so much?
No woman should ever squat 200# unless it is an olympic endeavor.
You can get some really nice "tone" to your quads by doing a few light set of one exercise per week
You should focus on your cardiovascular health
If you continue to squat heavy you will destroy your knees within 5 years so NO HEAVY SQUATS, NO LUNGES PERIOD AND NO HEAVY PRESSES
Somebody who knows what this is PLEASE help
Sister I am an RN and work in the OR with orthopods all the time.
This guys is a prick and doesn't know shit!!!!!!!
You need to strengthen the vastus lateralus sister. This will prevent the patella from coming across the joint and causing the pain and general knee disfunction. Now you need to do leg extensions for a while BUT IN A VERY SPECIFIC WAY!! Do not do them from the bottom as that will worsen the pain Do them at the top 20 degrees only! Do them slowly and hold the weight at the top for at least a second. Do sets of 15 or so. You can go heavy but do them very stricty and slowly. Get someone to liftb the weight to the top position for the start of the set.
After a few weeks of this then include some cycling up hills while seated on the seat. Get a cyclist to set the proper saddle height for you as this is important. The cycling is opinional but it really works the vastus lateralus well.
GO TO ANOTHER ORTHOPOD and make darn sure he is a sports orthopod. That guy is an ass!
Go to a sports physiotherapist too.
ONE ROID THAT IS GOOD FOR THE JOINTS>>>>
You can try a tiny bit of the fast acting ester of Deca(Nadrolone phenylpropionate)don't use deca as it hangs around too long and you will not be able to bail out if sides come on. This anabolic is very mild and has been used by the ladies with good results just be sure to keep the doses low at no more than 50mg per week or less.
This fast acting ester will clear your system quickly so you can bail out if sides come on. It needs to be injected every three days. use a 27 guage pin and an insulin syringe.
Using this anabolic for 8 -12 weeks AT LOW DOSE will help the joint and help with healing. DO NOT push your legs with heavy leg work for at least three months . The nadrolone will make the knees feel great but do not push them as they need to heal.
Start with 15mg every three days.
If you start to get a scratchy throat or a cough then stop the roid right away as these are warning signs of voice tone lowering. I do not think you will get this with 50mg per week or less and if you do it will only be mild. Some comes back after you stop too,
There is a lady on this board that loves nandrolone...do a search on Deca or nadrolone.
You can get Nandrolone phenylpropionate from some international sources...ask a few mods(Men) A very good product is from Hayrain Biologicals in India and it is not expensive.
A sport doc may inject your knee with some steroid(non anabolic) as well.
SQUATTING AND LEG WORK TIPS...
Once you get back to squats be sure NEVER to bounce...you can go deep but never bounce at all. ALSO and this is extremely important sister...NEVER RAISE YOUR HEELS UP ON A BOARD OR PLATES !!!!!! This is one of the worst things one can do to the knee...causes a great deal of shearing stress to the knee! Always squat flat footed. ALSO the hack squat is another knee wrecker do not do them...also lunges are crap and do shit for leg developement and also are hard on the knee for the same reasons.
When you squat get into a fairly wide stance wider than you see with most bodybuilders . Keep your knees over your feet at all
times though. A too wide stance causes the knee to be outside the feet at the bottom. Keep your toes pointed out a little too.
Good luck sister.
Debu said:
I know jack about those drugs...sorry.
Taping .....I AM AGAINST IT TOTALLY! Unless you are doing heavy triples or less, and I do not recommend powerlifting if your kness are bothering you and it has nothing to do with the weight.....the issue is form....one slip up in technique and your toast!
Taping will make your knee weaker it is a very bad idea.
As I mentioned earlier most people with knee pain have an unstable knee(if it wasn't injured in trauma) The Vastus medialus needs to be built up. This means leg extensions in the top quarter only, and in very strict form. Also one needs to eventually get into some serious work as leg extensions will only go so far. I recommend the TruSquat machine or the Hammer leg press or the Nautilus leg presses. These machine reduce shearing forces and are excellent mass builders. You need to go pretty deep in order to work the vastus medialus, not to mention the rest of the leg and butt.
DO NOT DO LUNGES,HACK SQUATS AND ESPECIALLY SQUATS WITH HEELS ELEVATED !! These exercises cause too much shearing force to the knee. Not only that but the lunges do JACK for leg developement and glute developement IMO. Ladies that want a nice butt and good legs need to do fairly deep Squats and or leg presses. Squat depth should always be to the point where the tops of the thighs are parallel to the ground. If you can't squat due to poor biomechanics then you need to do deep leg presses.
Enough of my rambling
CORRECTION! In my first post I said that the Vastus lateralus needed to be built up...I meant vastus MEDIALUS...the tear drop shaped muscle on the lower inner thigh.
ALSO....If one has chronic knee pain then a visit to a good sports orthopod would be in order. A minor arthoscopy may be needed to trim up some loose ends in the joint as the pain could be form a torn Meniscus(pad between Femor and Tibia)
ALSO....If one has chronic knee pain then a visit to a good sports orthopod would be in order. A minor arthoscopy may be needed to trim up some loose ends in the joint as the pain could be form a torn Meniscus(pad between Femor and Tibia)
