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Young football player needing guidance on which supplement to take.
- Thread starter iggy
- Start date
glennpendlay
New member
iggy, upon re-reading your post, and reading the response that talked about your chances of making 15lb gains between now and jan 8th... i want to make one more point. now please take this in the spirit it is intended, which is not to criticise, but to motivate.
it really doesnt make one little bit of difference whether you clean 185, or 200, or 215lbs on the 8th. if your worried about weights like those, your behind the 8 ball already! you need to be thinking about 300 and 350. thats a fact. ive met very few HS football players that could not have cleaned 300 or more if they had trained right. ive coached 155lb 8th graders that cleaned over 300lbs. ive coached 15 yer old freshmen or sophmores who cleaned 350-360lbs. stop worrying about 15lbs. dont accept anything less than a major improvement. dont set your time table at 2 week intervals... take a long term approach, tell yourself that you want to squat 400, ass to floor and no belt or wraps, at the very least no wraps, and clean 300 by the middle of summer, before 2-a-days start.
your never going to achieve something if you dont set the goal high enough. if y our goal is a 300lb clean, and you end up with 280 or 290, then youve still won! if you have got the idea in your head that a 225 clean is big, just because maybe some of the other varsity guys do that, or cant do more than that, then you are going to limit yourself.
one of the big reasons that some of the high school football players i coach do well is that they train with weightlifters. every day they train, they are in the gym with guys cleaning 400+lbs. so they dont think of 300 as big. they have no mental barriers. you dont have that advantage, but you still have to try to develope that mindset.
go to wichitafallsweightlifting.com, click on the video page, there is a vid on there of caleb ward, 15 years old, clean and jerking around 325lbs. as you can see, hes a little chubby and doesnt look like a super athlete. there are some other vids up of people cleaning or clean and jerking 400+lbs. watch them. those are good athletes. but, can you accept the fact that this 15 year old kid can do this kind of weight, and you are incapable of it? its most certainly not the case! you might not clean 325 by next season, but if you look at a lift like this as the kind of thing that should be EXPECTED of an athlete, then you will be one step closer to being able to approach it yourself!
it really doesnt make one little bit of difference whether you clean 185, or 200, or 215lbs on the 8th. if your worried about weights like those, your behind the 8 ball already! you need to be thinking about 300 and 350. thats a fact. ive met very few HS football players that could not have cleaned 300 or more if they had trained right. ive coached 155lb 8th graders that cleaned over 300lbs. ive coached 15 yer old freshmen or sophmores who cleaned 350-360lbs. stop worrying about 15lbs. dont accept anything less than a major improvement. dont set your time table at 2 week intervals... take a long term approach, tell yourself that you want to squat 400, ass to floor and no belt or wraps, at the very least no wraps, and clean 300 by the middle of summer, before 2-a-days start.
your never going to achieve something if you dont set the goal high enough. if y our goal is a 300lb clean, and you end up with 280 or 290, then youve still won! if you have got the idea in your head that a 225 clean is big, just because maybe some of the other varsity guys do that, or cant do more than that, then you are going to limit yourself.
one of the big reasons that some of the high school football players i coach do well is that they train with weightlifters. every day they train, they are in the gym with guys cleaning 400+lbs. so they dont think of 300 as big. they have no mental barriers. you dont have that advantage, but you still have to try to develope that mindset.
go to wichitafallsweightlifting.com, click on the video page, there is a vid on there of caleb ward, 15 years old, clean and jerking around 325lbs. as you can see, hes a little chubby and doesnt look like a super athlete. there are some other vids up of people cleaning or clean and jerking 400+lbs. watch them. those are good athletes. but, can you accept the fact that this 15 year old kid can do this kind of weight, and you are incapable of it? its most certainly not the case! you might not clean 325 by next season, but if you look at a lift like this as the kind of thing that should be EXPECTED of an athlete, then you will be one step closer to being able to approach it yourself!
cwc73 said:
Thanks for your input everyone, and iam setting my goals high for next season mr. pendlay. The other major thing i wanted to know about was supplements also. Did any of you ever take creatine or so protein? How were the results? How do you take creatine the correct way? What do you reccommend. Thanks a lot for the input though, i really appreciate it.
For what it is worth...
Me at 16 years old and a Junior in High School...AFTER gaining 23 pounds!!!!
175 lbs, 1993-94
End of my Junior year, beginning of my Sr year...213 lbs 1994-95
End of my Senior Year...or beginning of my Fr year of College.
238 lbs
Me at 16 years old and a Junior in High School...AFTER gaining 23 pounds!!!!
175 lbs, 1993-94
End of my Junior year, beginning of my Sr year...213 lbs 1994-95
End of my Senior Year...or beginning of my Fr year of College.
238 lbs
9-24-02
12-22-03
I don't have any good recent pictures of me to post...
What did I do my Jr and Sr and Fr College years to gain all that weight, get bigger, and stronger? No, it wasn't drugs or supplements. It was food and training like you can believe. I trained 4x a week with a routine that was based on the following:
Squats
Stiff Legged Deads
Bench Press
Incline Bench Press
Barbell Rows
Chins
Close Grip Bench
Standing Barbell curls
I didn't learn to deadlift till about my Soph year of College.
I ate...ATE in High School. I went NOWHERE without a cooler. I rarely do now, 12 years later. I ate breakfast of eggs, toast, milk, and oj. 2 hours later AT school I'd eat 6 more eggs, dry pasta, and more milk. Every 2 hours...I'd eat. Fish, lean red meet, chicken breasts, turkey, eggs, dry pasta, rice, potatoes, gallon of milk, etc...8 meals a day EVERY day. Every single one prepared the night before, put in ZIP loc bags and rady to eat.
It takes hard work...like you don't think that you can believe...lots of food, and maybe the most important...consistancy.
B True
12-22-03
I don't have any good recent pictures of me to post...
What did I do my Jr and Sr and Fr College years to gain all that weight, get bigger, and stronger? No, it wasn't drugs or supplements. It was food and training like you can believe. I trained 4x a week with a routine that was based on the following:
Squats
Stiff Legged Deads
Bench Press
Incline Bench Press
Barbell Rows
Chins
Close Grip Bench
Standing Barbell curls
I didn't learn to deadlift till about my Soph year of College.
I ate...ATE in High School. I went NOWHERE without a cooler. I rarely do now, 12 years later. I ate breakfast of eggs, toast, milk, and oj. 2 hours later AT school I'd eat 6 more eggs, dry pasta, and more milk. Every 2 hours...I'd eat. Fish, lean red meet, chicken breasts, turkey, eggs, dry pasta, rice, potatoes, gallon of milk, etc...8 meals a day EVERY day. Every single one prepared the night before, put in ZIP loc bags and rady to eat.
It takes hard work...like you don't think that you can believe...lots of food, and maybe the most important...consistancy.
B True
My coach told me to do the pyramid, but i don't know if 5 by 5 will be more effective for me. I'm consulting a family relative/olympic personal trainer next week sometime. like i said above in the original top post, He has me doing this pyramid workout type a few days a week. The 5 by 5 workout sounds very interesting, but when do you ever maxout on it? Thanks a lot for all the input, I just don't know much about the 5 by 5 program, and wandered how many of you use it. Thanks.
- iggy.
- iggy.
Iggy- said:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm
You do "pyramid" the weights in a way - you increase weight but hold reps constant (versus the traditional go to failure every set but increase weight while decreasing reps which is just worthless IMO).
I'd also recommend the book Starting Strength. It's a comprehensive guide to the lifts and beginner training written by Mark Rippetoe who is really 'the man' at strengthening and bulking novice lifters. www.startingstrength.com
Worry about training and food. Supplements don't mean much and mean very very very little compared to these big blocks.
BiggT
New member
Iggy,
With the traditional "pyramid" that your coach has you use, I find that progress is hard to make because nothing is constant.
Say your bench is 315x1 and your sets look something like this....
135x12
225x6
255x4
275x3
295x2
315x1
Your total workload isn't all that high and basically all you're doing is working up to 315x1 and not really training the lift. Something like that is okay for an in-season type setup where you want to get in and out and maintain your strength as much as you can and save yourself for the field.....but to build strength, keeping the reps constant works so well because you are getting stronger in an actual rep range, rather than adding weight, but sacrificing reps, and thus sacrificing workload and not making progress as fast as a kid your age is capable of.
I hope that made some sense, lol.....but it is why I NEVER like those pyramid setups where you add weight each set, but decrease reps.
With the traditional "pyramid" that your coach has you use, I find that progress is hard to make because nothing is constant.
Say your bench is 315x1 and your sets look something like this....
135x12
225x6
255x4
275x3
295x2
315x1
Your total workload isn't all that high and basically all you're doing is working up to 315x1 and not really training the lift. Something like that is okay for an in-season type setup where you want to get in and out and maintain your strength as much as you can and save yourself for the field.....but to build strength, keeping the reps constant works so well because you are getting stronger in an actual rep range, rather than adding weight, but sacrificing reps, and thus sacrificing workload and not making progress as fast as a kid your age is capable of.
I hope that made some sense, lol.....but it is why I NEVER like those pyramid setups where you add weight each set, but decrease reps.
BiggT
New member
Also, I wanted to add that even creatine and glutamine are a waste of money in my opinion. I notice that when you eat an abundance of nutritiously dense calories that creatine and glutamine's effects are not even noticable. Protein powders and weight gainers are alright in my book as far as supplements go, but honestly, drinking a gallon of milk a day is so much cheaper and just as efffective. I'd say give the money you'd spend to your parents to buy more groceries......buy an extra lunch or two at school.....use the extra $60 a month to buy a gallon of milk a day.....treat yourself to a good steak dinner here and there......
I am not going to turn this into a personal rant, but in my opinion the reason the supplement industry is doing so well today is because most people train less than optimally and they don't have any clue when it comes to how much food needs to be consumed to get big and strong. They don't believe it is as simple as working hard and getting strong at basic lifts, so they look for magic, which is the lie that the supplement industry and the magazine empire are built on, that there is some "magical" method that you will stumble across and instantly realize success. One ad after another and one product after another, and no explanation why the one before it didn't work, but the guy in the pics is huge, so why question it, right?
From my personal experience and from what I have seen with others, the supps are useless and ineffective anyway.
Try this.....if you think creatine has been effective in the past....spend 3 months training with a goal and purpose using progressive overload (the whole concept behind the 5x5) and eat a surplus of calories and drink a gallon of milk a day.....then while you keep doing this, try the creatine, you will see how truly useless and ineffective it really is.
Re-read Glen's post for motivation, read the 5x5 thread, set LONG-TERM goals, then it is as simple as training, sleeping, eating, and drinking milk....it is hard work, and not easy, but if you will yourself to do it, you will get results and get them fast and see how painfully simple it really is.
I am not going to turn this into a personal rant, but in my opinion the reason the supplement industry is doing so well today is because most people train less than optimally and they don't have any clue when it comes to how much food needs to be consumed to get big and strong. They don't believe it is as simple as working hard and getting strong at basic lifts, so they look for magic, which is the lie that the supplement industry and the magazine empire are built on, that there is some "magical" method that you will stumble across and instantly realize success. One ad after another and one product after another, and no explanation why the one before it didn't work, but the guy in the pics is huge, so why question it, right?
From my personal experience and from what I have seen with others, the supps are useless and ineffective anyway.
Try this.....if you think creatine has been effective in the past....spend 3 months training with a goal and purpose using progressive overload (the whole concept behind the 5x5) and eat a surplus of calories and drink a gallon of milk a day.....then while you keep doing this, try the creatine, you will see how truly useless and ineffective it really is.
Re-read Glen's post for motivation, read the 5x5 thread, set LONG-TERM goals, then it is as simple as training, sleeping, eating, and drinking milk....it is hard work, and not easy, but if you will yourself to do it, you will get results and get them fast and see how painfully simple it really is.
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