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You know, watching Chavez win by over 30% margin...

pintoca

New member
besides making me physically ill, it got me thinking, maybe I (and all of those that think he is the wrong guy for the job) am wrong... that maybe people DO live their day-to-day lives better with him (without thinking on the long-term consequences of his acts). My opinion is skewed, because the people I know are far worse than before (and that includes my family)

If there is no fraud, then fuck me running, most of the people want him as President... So be it, just don't come bitching later on.

I might be jumping off a building if I actually was living in Venezuela right now, but it sucks knowing I might never go back to my Country... you know, deep down you always keep that hope when you're living as a foreigner, to go back to your own.

Oh well, 2 more years and I can apply for the German citizenship... If most of my countrymen confuse "Venezuelan" with "Chavista", then fuck'em.
 
Julio Caesar Chavez is running for president? He had a great boxing career, his tenacity and toughness might serve him well in office.
 
The above post was only a joke. I joke like this often and people think I'm being serious.
 
Chaves consolidated power throughout most of the governemnt branches while he was in power. Hell, he practically re-wrote the constitution. This vote/election was definately a fraud in my opinion. That communist is the next Fidel. The only upshot for the country is that they have oil resources.
 
I actually thought the opposition candidate had a legitimate shot. Chavez is the next dictator of Venezuela. He already decided to revoke term limits for his office. Most of the people that don't like Chavez have probably fled to Brazil.
 
redguru said:
I actually thought the opposition candidate had a legitimate shot. Chavez is the next dictator of Venezuela. He already decided to revoke term limits for his office. Most of the people that don't like Chavez have probably fled to Brazil.

actually, most of them are in the US and in Spain. We went to vote yesterday and met a lot (at least for our standard) of Venezuelans coming from all over German... some people drove 400miles to vote... then at the embassy they said "We will count the votes tomorrow at 10:00 AM)...

LOL, BITCH at 10:00 Am you'll know who won.. besides, where did the votes overnight?

It all sucks... We voted, more to have internal peace, knowing you did what you had to do, but without conviction or faith.
 
pintoca said:
actually, most of them are in the US and in Spain. We went to vote yesterday and met a lot (at least for our standard) of Venezuelans coming from all over German... some people drove 400miles to vote... then at the embassy they said "We will count the votes tomorrow at 10:00 AM)...

LOL, BITCH at 10:00 Am you'll know who won.. besides, where did the votes overnight?

It all sucks... We voted, more to have internal peace, knowing you did what you had to do, but without conviction or faith.

It must suck living in Germany where you know the process is valid, but voting at the Venezuelan Embassy where you know the voting process is corrupt. Maybe a Colombian drug lord will take him out for interrupting cash flow.
 
at this point in time.....socialism is what the venezuelan people need. Later on down the road.....when socialism has run it's natural course, the people will transition to a more capitalist society. Exactly how marx envisioned it. No offense against your people pintoca, but they're simple.....as are most people in the region. Sure there are the elites in all countries.....poeple that were born "made"......so for them socialism sucks because it concentrates resources (ie power) in the hands of the many rather than the few. But eventually.....the venezuelan people will not be so simple anymore and socialism will lose it's appeal......unless they become lazy italians....LOL

LOL some more at people throwing up their arms about how other people wish to run their respective countries.......this doesn't apply to you pintoca because you actually are from venezuela. But let me ask you this pin, should the U.S invade venezuela because they "dare" adapt socialism? Should we assasinate Chavez as "reverand" robertson suggested? Is the inevitable deaths of 10's of thousands of your countrymen worth simply getting chavez out of power?
 
redsamurai said:
at this point in time.....socialism is what the venezuelan people need. Later on down the road.....when socialism has run it's natural course, the people will transition to a more capitalist society. Exactly how marx envisioned it. No offense against your people pintoca, but they're simple.....as are most people in the region. Sure there are the elites in all countries.....poeple that were born "made"......so for them socialism sucks because it concentrates resources (ie power) in the hands of the many rather than the few. But eventually.....the venezuelan people will not be so simple anymore and socialism will lose it's appeal......unless they become lazy italians....LOL

LOL some more at people throwing up their arms about how other people wish to run their respective countries.......this doesn't apply to you pintoca because you actually are from venezuela. But let me ask you this pin, should the U.S invade venezuela because they "dare" adapt socialism? Should we assasinate Chavez as "reverand" robertson suggested? Is the inevitable deaths of 10's of thousands of your countrymen worth simply getting chavez out of power?

that sounds good in theory, but has it ever really happened?
maybe in china, but anywhere else?
i'm not seeing it bro

pintoca, what is chavez's opinion on FARC and other narco terroist regiemes?
for or against?
 
I'm glad he got elected. The people down there are poor and uneducated and their vote reflects that. Stupidity deserves to suffer. Give America 50 years, at the direction it is moving we'll end up like the rest of the 3rd world nations out there.
 
Gambino said:
that sounds good in theory, but has it ever really happened?
maybe in china, but anywhere else?
i'm not seeing it bro


remember, this process takes "generations".....it's not going to happen in 50 years, not even 100. It takes a couple generations of people to elevate high enough so that they can start to take over and expand their own creative business interests. Without chavez, Venezuela would be another wild wild west shithole.....and the countries only valuable resource would be run by several people who would be all under the thumb of western oil interests. If america and other western powers hadn't meddled in middle east oil there would be so much more stability there. Instead, the only people offering stability there are the radicals. The U.S is right now lying in the grave we dug for ourselves in the last 50 years. We fucked around so much in a region we had no business in.....that there almost is no solution anymore to the problems we face there. G.W just made Iran a superpower with what he did the last 3 years.....and that is really going to fuck us.
 
Meh.......let it be.

Last thing we need is US intervention. I've lost track of how many elected leaders this country has assassinated/destroyed/dethroned so that a brutal dictator (but at least not a communist one!) can take power.
 
CrazyRussian said:
Meh.......let it be.

Last thing we need is US intervention. I've lost track of how many elected leaders this country has assassinated/destroyed/dethroned so that a brutal dictator (but at least not a communist one!) can take power.

I see conspiracy theorist people!
 
my friends, who are foreign students from venezeula, get visibly upset and angry whenever chavez' name is mentioned.
 
ErikZ said:
I see conspiracy theorist people!

What is a conspiracy theory?

What the government does not want people to study? What investigations get rail roaded? What documents are sealed and unavailable for 60 years?
 
Gambino said:
that sounds good in theory, but has it ever really happened?
maybe in china, but anywhere else?
i'm not seeing it bro

pintoca, what is chavez's opinion on FARC and other narco terroist regiemes?
for or against?

Chavez allows FARC refuge with his borders.
 
pintoca said:
agreed

no secret to anyone.

Does he fund them? Supply them too? I know Farc has been responsible for some of the kidnappings and killings in Venezuela. Some of the companies I will be interviewing with have rigs in Venezuela. I am thinking offshore only though lol.
Who was it that you worked for down there?

BTW, How was the veiled, non-specific congratulations by the US administration taken by the citizens of Venezuela? It was a pretty weak attempt by us to try and open some dialogue that might allow more US drilling interests to open up there.
 
redguru said:
I actually thought the opposition candidate had a legitimate shot. Chavez is the next dictator of Venezuela. He already decided to revoke term limits for his office. Most of the people that don't like Chavez have probably fled to Brazil.

Perhaps we are seeing another demonstration of the "power" of the Diebold voting machines.....of which Chavez is a heavy investor.



lol
 
Testosterone boy said:
Perhaps we are seeing another demonstration of the "power" of the Diebold voting machines.....of which Chavez is a heavy investor.



lol


Where is poink?

he was posting about the large investments of Chavez in Diebold.....a few weeks ago.



lol
 
Testosterone boy said:
Perhaps we are seeing another demonstration of the "power" of the Diebold voting machines.....of which Chavez is a heavy investor.



lol

You need some sources to back that up.

Smartmatic is a Venezuelan-owned company. They purchased Sequoia voting systems. They manufacture a machine that was used recently in U.S. elections.
Diebold is an American-owned company from Ohio.
You are seriously confusing conspiriati notions now.
Both systems have had their detractors on the security of their systems.

You believe that Chavez, invested heavily into a US-based system, while his own Venezuelan company had a play in the elections with their machines?
 
mightymouse69 said:
Idiots, a country of idiots.


I wouldn't be so sure to label them as such. The voting process there in my opinion was rigged. Chavez has consolidated power throughout all the branches of government ensuring a win in this election. What he's done in the last few years is remarkable/dispicable to the working class persons of that country. He took over land tha belonged to families for generations and claimed it to be the property of the (his) governement. He changed the constitution giving him ultimate power over the Judicial system and the Military among other things. This guy and his followers called "Chavistas" are living in the past where they think communist will provide them with a utopia. The only thing that will sustain them is their oil reserves etc... and who knows how long that will last. P.S. on top of the oil reserves, he restructured the oil refineries which the U.S. oil companies have invested billions of dollars in and basically took them over etc... This guy is a flamboyant communist dictator that wants to make the history books with the likes of Fidel. He has been in cohoots with the Iranians, the North Koreans and has been on the market to purchase a shitload of military weapons. There needs to be a coup de tat for the betterment of the people of Venezuela.
 
He has also made multiple claims that the U.S. governement has attempted to assasinate him muliplt times to no avail. I'm sure if there was a bona fide attempt, it would have been done already. Timing is everything baby.
 
Good stuff


lol





US Investigates Voting Machines' Ties To Hugo Chavez

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Investigates Voting Machines’ Venezuela Ties
By TIM GOLDEN
New York Times
Published: October 29, 2006

The federal government is investigating the takeover last year of a leading American manufacturer of electronic voting systems by a small software company that has been linked to the leftist Venezuelan government of President Hugo Chávez.

The inquiry is focusing on the Venezuelan owners of the software company, the Smartmatic Corporation, and is trying to determine whether the government in Caracas has any control or influence over the firm’s operations, government officials and others familiar with the investigation said.

The inquiry on the eve of the midterm elections is being conducted by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, or Cfius, the same panel of 12 government agencies that reviewed the abortive attempt by a company in Dubai to take over operations at six American ports earlier this year.

The committee’s formal inquiry into Smartmatic and its subsidiary, Sequoia Voting Systems of Oakland, Calif., was first reported Saturday in The Miami Herald.

Officials of both Smartmatic and the Venezuelan government strongly denied yesterday that President Chávez’s administration, which has been bitterly at odds with Washington, has any role in Smartmatic.

“The government of Venezuela doesn’t have anything to do with the company aside from contracting it for our electoral process,” the Venezuelan ambassador in Washington, Bernardo Alvarez, said last night.

Smartmatic was a little-known firm with no experience in voting technology before it was chosen by the Venezuelan authorities to replace the country’s elections machinery ahead of a contentious referendum that confirmed Mr. Chávez as president in August 2004.

Seven months before that voting contract was awarded, a Venezuelan government financing agency invested more than $200,000 into a smaller technology company, owned by some of the same people as Smartmatic, that joined with Smartmatic as a minor partner in the bid.

In return, the government agency was given a 28 percent stake in the smaller company and a seat on its board, which was occupied by a senior government official who had previously advised Mr. Chávez on elections technology. But Venezuelan officials later insisted that the money was merely a small-business loan and that it was repaid before the referendum.

With a windfall of some $120 million from its first three contracts with Venezuela, Smartmatic then bought the much larger and more established Sequoia Voting Systems, which now has voting equipment installed in 17 states and the District of Columbia.

Since its takeover by Smartmatic in March 2005, Sequoia has worked aggressively to market its voting machines in Latin America and other developing countries. “The goal is to create the world’s leader in electronic voting solutions,” said Mitch Stoller, a company spokesman.

But the role of the young Venezuelan engineers who founded Smartmatic has become less visible in public documents as the company has been restructured into an elaborate web of offshore companies and foreign trusts.

“The government should know who owns our voting machines; that is a national security concern,” said Representative Carolyn B. Maloney, Democrat of New York, who asked the Bush administration in May to review the Sequoia takeover.

“There seems to have been an obvious effort to obscure the ownership of the company,” Ms. Maloney said of Smartmatic in a telephone interview yesterday. “The Cfius process, if it is moving forward, can determine that.”

The concern over Smartmatic’s purchase of Sequoia comes amid rising unease about the security of touch-screen voting machines and other electronic elections systems.

Government officials familiar with the Smartmatic inquiry said they doubted that even if the Chávez government was some kind of secret partner in the company, it would try to influence elections in the United States. But some of them speculated that the purchase of Sequoia could help Smartmatic sell its products in Latin America and other developing countries, where safeguards against fraud are weaker.

A spokeswoman for the Treasury Department, which oversees the foreign investment committee, said she could not comment on whether the panel was conducting a formal investigation.

“Cfius has been in contact with the company,” said the spokeswoman, Brookly McLaughlin, citing discussions that were first disclosed in July. “It is important that the process is conducted in a professional and nonpolitical manner.”

The committee has wide authority to review foreign investments in the United States that might have national security implications. In practice, though, it has focused mainly on foreign acquisitions of defense companies and other investments in traditional security realms.

Since the political furor over the Dubai ports deal, members of Congress from both parties have sought to widen the purview of such reviews to incorporate other emerging national security concerns.

Published: October 29, 2006
(Page 2 of 2)

In late July, the House and the Senate overwhelmingly approved legislation to expand the committee’s scope, give a greater role to the office of the director of national intelligence and strengthen Congressional oversight of the review process.

Foreigners seeking to buy American companies in areas like defense manufacturing typically seek the committee’s review themselves before going ahead with a purchase. Legal experts said it would be highly unusual for the panel to investigate a transaction like the Sequoia takeover, and even more unusual for the panel to try to nullify the transaction so long after it was completed.

It is unclear, moreover, what the government would need to uncover about the Sequoia sale to take such an action.

The investment committee’s review typically involves an initial 30-day examination of any transactions that might pose a threat to national security, including a collective assessment from the intelligence community. Should concerns remain, one of the agencies involved can request an additional and more rigorous 45-day investigation.

In the case of the ports deal, the transaction was approved by the investment committee. But the Dubai company later abandoned the deal, agreeing to sell out to an American company after a barrage of criticism by legislators from both parties who said the administration had not adequately reviewed the deal or informed Congress about its implications.

The concerns about possible ties between the owners of Smartmatic and the Chávez government have been well known to United States foreign-policy officials since before the 2004 recall election in which Mr. Chávez, a strong ally of President Fidel Castro of Cuba, won by an official margin of nearly 20 percent.

Opposition leaders asserted that the balloting had been rigged. But a statistical analysis of the distribution of the vote by American experts in electronic voting security showed that the result did not fit the pattern of irregularities that the opposition had claimed.

At the same time, the official audit of the vote by the Venezuelan election authorities was badly flawed, one of the American experts said. “They did it all wrong,” one of the authors of the study, Avi Rubin, a professor of computer science at Johns Hopkins University, said in an interview.

Opposition members of Venezuela’s electoral council had also protested that they were excluded from the bidding process in which Smartmatic and a smaller company, the Bizta Corporation, were selected to replace a $120 million system that had been built by Election Systems and Software of Omaha.

Smartmatic was then a fledgling technology start-up. Its registered address was the Boca Raton, Fla., home of the father of one of the two young Venezuelan engineers who were its principal officers, Antonio Mugica and Alfredo Anzola, and it had a one-room office with a single secretary.

The company claimed to have only two going ventures, small contracts for secure communications software that a Smartmatic spokesman said had a total value of about $2 million.

At that point, Bizta amounted to even less. Company documents, first reported in 2004 by The Herald, showed the firm to be virtually dormant until it received the $200,000 investment from a fund controlled by the Venezuelan Finance Ministry, which took a 28 percent stake in return.

Weeks before Bizta and Smartmatic won the referendum contract, the government also placed a senior official of the Science Ministry, Omar Montilla, on Bizta’s board, alongside Mr. Mugica and Mr. Anzola. Mr. Montilla, The Herald reported, had acted as an adviser to Mr. Chávez on elections technology.

More recent corporate documents show that before and after Smartmatic’s purchase of Sequoia from a British-owned firm, the company was reorganized in an array of holding companies based in Delaware (Smartmatic International), the Netherlands (Smartmatic International Holding, B.V.), and Curaçao (Smartmatic International Group, N.V.). The firm’s ownership was further shielded in two Curaçao trusts.

Mr. Stoller, the Smartmatic spokesman, said that the reorganization was done simply to help expand the company’s international operations, and that it had not tried to hide its ownership, which he said was more than 75 percent in the hands of Mr. Mugica and his family.

“No foreign government or entity, including Venezuela, has ever held any stake in Smartmatic,” Mr. Stoller said. “Smartmatic has always been a privately held company, and despite that, we’ve been fully transparent about the ownership of the corporation.”

Mr. Stoller emphasized that Bizta was a separate company and said the shares the Venezuelan government received in it were “the guarantee for a loan.”

Mr. Stoller also described concerns about the security of Sequoia’s electronic systems as unfounded, given their certification by federal and state election agencies.

But after a municipal primary election in Chicago in March, Sequoia voting machines were blamed for a series of delays and irregularities. Smartmatic’s new president, Jack A. Blaine, acknowledged in a public hearing that Smartmatic workers had been flown up from Venezuela to help with the vote.

Some problems with the election were later blamed on a software component, which transmits the voting results to a central computer, that was developed in Venezuela.
 
mountain muscle said:
You are confusing two different companies.

Diebold is headquartered in OHIO.

Sequoia is in Cailfornia.

Where is the link TBOY?


Walden O'Dell or 'Wally" O'Dell, the current chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." He was very active and visible as a Bush supporter:


Two brothers are principals in the two companies that manufacture 80% of the US voting machines.

I am running late right now.
 
test boy ii said:
Walden O'Dell or 'Wally" O'Dell, the current chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." He was very active and visible as a Bush supporter:





Perhaps I misquoted a word or two....but that was the message.

You still are avoiding the subject and doing a piss poor job of it at that.

I leave you to your fantasy world of conspiracy and conjecture.
 
mountain muscle said:
You still are avoiding the subject and doing a piss poor job of it at that.

I leave you to your fantasy world of conspiracy and conjecture.

You are an asshat. Typical poster who thinks everyone else has nothing to do but write an essay to answer every accusation that the asshat compiles. At the asshats disposal of course.

Now that I have some time, I will look a bit.

I am sure there have been no attempts to hide anything.
 
test boy ii said:
You are an asshat. Typical poster who thinks everyone else has nothing to do but write an essay to answer every accusation that the asshat compiles. At the asshats disposal of course.

Now that I have some time, I will look a bit.

I am sure there have been no attempts to hide anything.


Typical Tboy.

Why don't you post your admission about voting machines on this thread too?

While you are at it, post your links to Chavez' "heavy investments" in Diebold.

Being called out and having nothing to say must hurt you since you now are relying on insults.

All I asked was for you to back up your fantasies. You couldn't. You changed the subject, made vague assertions without any resources then fell back on insults.

Ever wonder why very few people even bother to answer your posts? Most of us don't.

I don't expect an essay, I expect you to be able back up your wild assertions with something more than a few lines and figment of your deluded brain cell. You do not want to get into an insult war with me pumpkin.

Now, Who is the asshat?

BTW, you changed the course of this thread and it died.

I just wanted to hear Pintoca's response about FARC since he is from Venezuela. He seems to have disappeared now. HRMMM... :heart:
 
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