Working out each part only once a week, is it REALLY enough?

[Prime Rib]

For my entire career of lifting, my mentality has always been that the harder and more you worked a muscle, the quicker is grew. I've just begun seriously searching into lifting, and I see that most guys preach the gospel about only working each muscle group ONCE a week. Is this REALLY enough to gain size and strength? It really doesn't seem like enough time on one muscle. I've always done things twice a week, with about 2-3 days in between each muscle group and has great results. However i'm starting to level out, and if this once-a-week thing really works for the NATURAL guys, i'd be willing to give it a shot. Any input is appreciated


Josh

 

[he-man]

i say yes - i hit each bodypart once a week but it's taken to failure, so i need the time to ensure full recovery

 

[satchboogie]

every 4-7 days depending on how quickly you recover.

depending on the muscle too. some muscles recover quicker.

 

[louden_swain]

All muscle growth takes place outside the gym. If you include too many training days, how will your body become bigger and stronger? It wont.

 

[Shark01]

Once a week is the best way to go if you are committed to bombing the crap out of a muscle part. And another side benefit is that I'm excited to hit the gym since I'm not going too often to get bored.

 

[louden_swain]

Of course, it depends on the volume that you use.

 

[bigstve12]

I started out (6 years ago) young and zealous doing each bodypart 2-3 times a week. It worked then cuz I was young, but i soon plateaud and switched to one bodypart a week and have made much better gains this way, been doing it for 3 years now. Intensity is the key

 

[SofaGeorge]

I was part of the "original" school late '60s to early '70s... where it was gospel that you work your entire body three days a week. Then I was part of the innovative '70s-'80s style where you worked each bodypart twice a week. Then I joined the graduating class of the late '80s-90s where you trained each body part once a week.

I saw gains on all three training styles.

I have seen the best gains on one body part once per week.

 

[bigstve12]

You been around for a while huh sofageorge??

 

[DrBones]

I've been hitting 1x week since feb.... between Augst 2002 and now I've gone from 178 lbs to 200... and now Im a little leaner at 195... and I'm natural..
The only thing working each muscle group 2+ times a week did was kick the shit out of my ligaments and joints. I think the only way you can do more than 1x per bodypart per week is if your volume is nice and low such as DC training and HST.

 

[BigBadBootyDaddy29]

Personally, for bodybuilding, if you kick the shit out of yourself I always felt once a week yielded great great gains. However, when strength training, you need to think more in terms of movements than you do bodyparts, and a once a week approach for strength training just never worked for me. I think training needs to costantly vary, and that the point of one bodypart per week is good if you really kill yourself in the gym, but a lot of people do abuse the principle because they are lazy and afraid to work, and overtraining, although a legit possibility becomes an excuse.......I guess I am carrying on a little, but I wanted to get that out there....I strongly feel that all types of training are effective and have their place in someone's lifting career and that varying your methods is key to success, as well as never closing yourself to anything, and the most important part is execution....some guys don't break a sweat in the gym, then feel they need a whole week to recover.

 

[Aussie Juga naught]

I work each body part once a week, it works for me.

 

[Debaser]

Working each bodypart once a week is the slowest way to gain muscle. Well, except every other week.

But maximum frequency while not being under the burden of overtraining will yield maximum growth.

 

[SofaGeorge]

You been around for a while huh sofageorge??

Wodin and I used to hunt dinosaur with pointy sticks.

 

[spatts]

Did you wear a loin cloth?

 

[Dirty Workout]

I didnt think that 1x week was enough so back last summer I changed to 1xevery 6 days which comes out to working each bodypart an extra time a month. I liked it but got burnt out mentally after a few months

If you think about it the body doesnt know days of the week. THat is a human invention. It only knows recovery time.

 

[Him1]

I didnt think that 1x week was enough so back last summer I changed to 1xevery 6 days which comes out to working each bodypart an extra time a month. I liked it but got burnt out mentally after a few months

If you think about it the body doesnt know days of the week. THat is a human invention. It only knows recovery time.

Exactly, which is why, if you can maximally stress the muscle and recover in the shortest time period(DC style), and repeat, then you make gains twice as fast(Of course, fast being a term invented by humans. It may only be a word to your body, but, the faster I make gains, the better).

 

[Boss101]

I train HST style I hit each muscle 3x a week but I'm using lower volume and I'm not going to failure.

 

[casualbb]

Well. Growth initiated by training peaks at about 24 hours and is finished by 48 hours. Do you REALLY want to be growing only 2 days out of 7?

Training more frequently is better for both growth and strength.

McLester JR., Bishop P., & Guilliams M. Comparison of 1 and 3 day per week of equal volume resistance training in experienced subjects. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 31(5 Supp) pp.S117 1999

In a study performed at the University of Alabama, two groups of subjects performed the same periodized resistance training routine either once per week or three times per week. The results showed that muscle mass increases were greater in the three workout per week group, compared to the one workout per week group. In addition, the strength increases in this group were on average 40% greater! So what does this mean to you? It means the fear of overtraining, which sometimes verges on paranoia, may be preventing you from getting the most gains you can in the gym.

-casualbb

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

casuallbb-- thats pretty interesting for growth/increased muscle mass.... now if your a girlie like me & looking more for definition than growth-- one day a wk per bodypart or full-body workout 3/wk???

thanks

 

[casualbb]

I'd still go ahead and do the 3x/week, for two main reasons

1) by working all major parts, you'll burn more calories, aiding in fat loss. Heck, throw some supersets in there and lifting will be like HIIT.

2) Any program that's better for growing muscle is also by definition better for keeping muscle while dieting.

-casualbb

 

[Thaibox]

casualbb...what part of the Bay are you in man?

 

[collegiateLifter]

studies of course are on novices---- something to take into consideration. I do however think i may go back to training bodyparts 2x week (i know my tris for instance got a ton bigger on wsb)

 

[Prime Rib]

Thanks for the replies guys!

I am definately going to stick with at least twice a week. I just do not see once a week being even close unless you're an unnatural mutant that sucks roids into his ass all year


Josh

 

[R CRUSHER]

i used to do those 1 bodypart per week
fry your muscle until complete failure then do some breakdown supersets to falure then crawl out of the gym workouts back in the day.

today i'm much smarter and older like powerlifters....2 per week no falure

 

[casualbb]

Thaibox: Berkeley, specifically

CollegiateLifter: That's true, it doesn't say that they weren't novices. Although, Pubmed won't give me the abstract, so I have no clue.

-casualbb

 

[FatRat]

I would say that this is difficult to answer without knowing how quickly and completely you are recovering from your workouts. There are so many factors that will affect this (training intensity, training volume, diet, quality of rest, lifestyle, genetics etc…)

You also need to remember that as you progress and become more advanced these are going to change, particularly your training intensity which will have a big impact on your requirements for diet, rest etc.

If your combination of the above allows you to completely recover and grow from 2x per week then you are going to gain more from this than 1x per week. That said, many many athletes (myself included until lower my volume with DC style training) have gained well from training each body part 1x per week.

 

[Gymatic]

Now what I do is train my weaker muscle groups twicwe per week and my others once a week. hey it works for me. Tho everyone is different. Do whatever works for you.

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

bump for corvettedude.

 

[Volpe]

Wodin and I used to hunt dinosaur with pointy sticks.

lol

 

[blinddeafmute]

I agree with fat rat. There are way too many factors to figure in to come up with a definite answer for everyone. You have to figure it out on your own.

Some more food for thought that I thought I would throw in.

Casuallbb's study doesnt mention the intensity or volume that the participants trained at.

With training to failure, you are maximizing the amount of growth, but also maximizing the recovery time. There is a threashold that you will come to when your workout wont stimulate anymore growth, but can keep lengthening your recovery time. Its a delicate balance if you really want to maximize. There is no definite line for everyone. It depends way too much on diet, genetics, amount and quality of sleep, metabolizm and so on.

One thing I notice everyone mentioning is the # of times you can grow. The thing I dont see anyone mentioning is the size of growth per workout. I myself find it hard to believe that you can grow as much from 1 DC workout as you can from a 1/week workout. But the catch is in the recovery time. If I grow 1/32" from 1 DC workout, and grow 1/16" from a 1/week workout then it would be worth it to volume train, but if my body reacts to DC by growing 3/64, and 1/week by growing 1/16, then DC is worth it because in 1 year. I would have grown 3 1/4" from volume, and 4 1/4" from DC.

I personally have been doing a 1/week workout, crawling out of the gym every workout, but am going to give DC a shot here in a few weeks.

I havent done measurements, but I have gained 16 lbs since I started working out about 3 months ago. My diet needs work, but I am happy with my gains so far. Maybe I can grow more on DC though. Its worth a shot.

 

[casualbb]

With training to failure, you are maximizing the amount of growth,

That is a false statement. Failure is a neural phenomenon, related to hypertrophy only as much as it prevents frequent workouts.

When one dispenses with the idea of failure training, greater frequency becomes possible, because the chief cause of overtraining is frequent failure training (not volume, what most people think). Failure training evolved because of this intuitive idea of "If I'm working as hard as I can, I must grow, right?" The body doesn't follow such simplistic logic.

One thing I notice everyone mentioning is the # of times you can grow.

I try to think about it in terms of "state of growth." It generally takes the body 36-48 hours to repair training-induced damage, aka growth. So if you work a muscle three times a week, it should be in a state of growth 6 out of 7 days. If you work it once a week, it will be in a state of growth 2 out of seven days. Which would you prefer?

Note, I mentioned nothing of "recovery." That's because "recovery" as most people use it (recovering neural strength) generally has a much longer timeframe than the repair of muscular damage. When hypertrophy training, it makes much more sense to go by the growth timeframe because that insures you'll be in a state of growth continuously instead of having your muscles idle waiting for the CNS to recover. Not being fully recovered isn't an issue anyway if you don't go to failure.

I myself find it hard to believe that you can grow as much from 1 DC workout as you can from a 1/week workout.

I think you'd grow jus as much. There's another fundamental study comparing the effects of single sets vs. multiple sets on 1RM gains. There was no significant difference between the 3-set group and the 1-set group. So if three sets isn't any better than one set, does it make sense to do 10-15?

-casualbb

 

[bigstve12]

i said it before and ill say it again...you guys spend too much time with B.S. just go to the gym and train your ass off, go home, eat, rest, grow. simple as that

 

[bigstve12]

CasualBB, i dont mean to be rude, but it seems you spend more time in the library or online, wherever you do your research, then you do in the gym. Dont get me wrong, knowledge is good to have, but seriously, put some intensity into your workouts. You cant blame all your shortcomings on genetics (from a previous post)

 

[casualbb]

I really resent that. I've spent a long time researching training and growth, and I'm here trying to share that knowledge with others, and here you are telling me that it's all BS, I'm copping out over my genetics, and I'm training with a lack of "intensity," whatever the hell that is anyway. If I can triple the effectiveness of my training by spending an equal amount of time researching, is that not worthwhile? Do you have anything constructive to contribute? Because "shut up, train hard and eat" really is a buncha crap. If you feel what you're doing is working and don't want to seek new knowledge , good for you. But how DARE you insult me for trying to help people who are?

-casualbb

 

[blinddeafmute]

That is a false statement. Failure is a neural phenomenon, related to hypertrophy only as much as it prevents frequent workouts.

I think I was missunderstood. For the most part, I agree with what you are saying Casualbb. Failure training only increases the amount of recovery time needed. Not necessarily the amount of time to "grow".

When I made that statement, I was refering to 1 work set to failure. If it takes 10 reps to get maximum growth, then if you fail at 12, you have made sure you have hit that maximum mark. But on the same lines, you have increased your recoup time. That is why I say it is trial and error. Find your peak if you can. And of course its going to be a little bit different for every individual.

So if you work a muscle three times a week, it should be in a state of growth 6 out of 7 days. If you work it once a week, it will be in a state of growth 2 out of seven days. Which would you prefer?

I agree with you 100%. If I can grow every day, then that is what I would want to do. I want to grow the max that I can every day that I can. I think everyone else does too. We are on the same page I think.

There was no significant difference between the 3-set group and the 1-set group. So if three sets isn't any better than one set, does it make sense to do 10-15?

I personally find it rediculas to do 15-20 work sets. So far, I have been sticking with 3 on everything. But I am starting DC next week and will only be doing 1. I wont be doing the rest pauses for right now either. Basic straight sets.

If I can triple the effectiveness of my training by spending an equal amount of time researching, is that not worthwhile?

I appreciate your research. There is a reason that the "freaks" of today are so much bigger than they were 30 years ago, and its not from genetics. Its from research.

 

[Shark01]

That is a false statement. Failure is a neural phenomenon, related to hypertrophy only as much as it prevents frequent workouts.

When one dispenses with the idea of failure training, greater frequency becomes possible, because the chief cause of overtraining is frequent failure training (not volume, what most people think). Failure training evolved because of this intuitive idea of "If I'm working as hard as I can, I must grow, right?" The body doesn't follow such simplistic logic.

-casualbb

Your statements are the ones that don't make any sense. When I work out, I want as much muscle recruitment as possible. Only when you go to failure are you assured of having recruited as many fibers as possible.

The reason so many people dump on it is because its hard and painful. Yeah, it hurts the next day when I literally have to roll out of the rack and have to hold handrails when going downstairs. Yeah, it hurts when it takes an act of God to brush your teeth and comb your hair.

I'm in the gym to work as hard as I can and make progress, not to spend countless hours doing sub-maximal crap that doesn't break a sweat.

Since you are into research, pick up a copy of the book "Maximize Your Training". It's a great read, and will explain why so much of the classic multi-set research is flawed, false, and sometimes faked.

Oh, and shut up, train hard and eat sounds pretty productive to me.

 

[casualbb]

Unfortunately you're also wrong.

When I work out, I want as much muscle recruitment as possible. Only when you go to failure are you assured of having recruited as many fibers as possible.

That's wrong.

The reason so many people dump on it is because its hard and painful...I'm in the gym to work as hard as I can and make progress, not to spend countless hours doing sub-maximal crap that doesn't break a sweat.

Well why don't I go put some pins in my face? That sounds pretty bad-ass, wouldn't you say? It'll do about as much for hypertrophy as failure training. Love to stick around and talk, but I need to go do the submaximal crap that's added 15-20 pounds of LBM since last year.

And no, I don't need some HIT manual to tell me things that I know are wrong.

-casualbb

 

[louden_swain]

I agree about training intensity. . . it has built my physique!!

 

[bigstve12]

lets post some pics and see whose routine is more productive, b/c i guarantee its mine! You can pus out and say that has nothing to do with anything, but ill tell you one thing bro, thats what it's all about!!

 

[casualbb]

Fine. Let me finish my current HST cycle and I'll get back to you. I should have another 3-4 weeks left. If my current rate of gain continues for the rest of the cycle, I should have added 15-ish pounds of bodyweight, with 10-12 of that being lean.

-casualbb

 

[Shark01]

Well why don't I go put some pins in my face? That sounds pretty bad-ass, wouldn't you say? It'll do about as much for hypertrophy as failure training. Love to stick around and talk, but I need to go do the submaximal crap that's added 15-20 pounds of LBM since last year.

And no, I don't need some HIT manual to tell me things that I know are wrong.

-casualbb

I'd suggest you put the pins anywhere that would make you work harder.

15-20 lbs huh?..........you have some damn fine genetics obviously, just think what you could do if you busted ass on every set?

The book I'm referencing isn't a manual, but a 400+ page book written by over 30 of the most knowlegable and respected people in exercise science. I thoroughly recommend it for anyone interested in scientific training methods.

"Maximize Your Training" ISBN 0-8442-8317-7

 

[Debaser]

lets post some pics and see whose routine is more productive, b/c i guarantee its mine! You can pus out and say that has nothing to do with anything, but ill tell you one thing bro, thats what it's all about!!

You're an idiot.

Okay then, do you do DC training? Because he weighs 300 lbs fairly lean. How bout you?

Or you could do HST like Blade. I'm not sure of his stats but he's a big motherfucker, a LOT bigger than you I'm sure.

How bout intense volume? Or do you think you're bigger than Ronnie Coleman or Markus Ruhl?

Or H.I.T...when's the last time you were up on stage next to Dorian Yates?

Or WSB...let's sit you next to WSB's elite and see who looks like the girlscout.

Strongman training, or do we even have to fucking go there?

If you don't get the point yet, appearance does not necessarily dictate the efficacy of a certain routine. If you have elite genetics and/or use gear, you can gain off anything. Casual I believe has poor genetics and therefore has to actually use an effective program to make gains.

 

[bigstve12]

Debaser you dumb fuck, yeah im gonna get on stage with dorain yates.....theres one difference man, im not full of juice!! There you go, blaming shortcomings on genetics again. THats an easy cop-out. My genetics are horrible, but by training till i cant move for days and busting my ass, i have maximized my body past any point I ever thought genetically possible, and i did it all natural. I dont consider myself a BB by any standards, therefore in a posedown I wouldn't fare to well. Casual BB talks a big game but cant back it up, I would still posedown against him, or anyone, knowing Im no BB. Thats how confident i am in my training

 

[bigstve12]

alright i just read the casualBB thread, and ill have to apologize for the last post i made to debaser. Like casual said, i tend to get angry with people who disagree w/ me...something ill have to learn to live with.

 

[Thaibox]

lets post some pics and see whose routine is more productive, b/c i guarantee its mine! You can pus out and say that has nothing to do with anything, but ill tell you one thing bro, thats what it's all about!!

.....Waiting for the pics.....

 

[casualbb]

Well...let me be impartial here...Debaser insulted you too, so I think he also owes an apology.

We really need to remember to attack the argument, not the person.

-casualbb

 

[Debaser]

Yeah I shouldn't have called you an idiot, sorry bout that, but I still stand by my point that a "posedown" alone would in no way demonstrate how great a routine is.

 

[c3bodybuilding]

I think sometimes we all worry too much about our routines. As long as we aren't overtraining or undertraining. DC himself has stated many times, that it's not the routines that people follow that don't produce results, it's how people eat, or don't eat for that matter. If we all spent as much time at the dinner plate, as we did arguing on elite about which method works best, I think we would all be a lot happier! But damn it, elite is addicting!

 

[bigstve12]

I forget were all brothers here. Were all after the same thing, we all have the same goals, we all live "weird" lifestyles (according to people who dont understand us), we need to stick together. Im getting all emotional.........ok im done, time to eat