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mrplunkey
New member
This would be hilarious if it weren't our tax money.
GM's tax break worth as much as $45 billion: filing - Yahoo! News
Good times.
GM's tax break worth as much as $45 billion: filing - Yahoo! News
Good times.
Woohoo! We get to give GM another $45B!
- Thread starter mrplunkey
- Start date
how much of the taxpayer's loan has GM paid back, as of today?
also
LMAO @ anyone using yahoo as a crediable news source.
None, really. They repaid our loan with money they got directly through one of the Fed windows @ 0% interest.
So theyre paying us back with our own money.
mrplunkey
New member
Please don't burst rnch's bubble.
You'll make him go into the fetal position clinging to his remote muttering "must watch MSNBC".
OR
even worse yet,
i'll crack up completely and view fox new's "fair and balanced" coverage.
mrplunkey
New member
OR
even worse yet,
i'll crack up completely and view fox new's "fair and balanced" coverage.
You really do need to broaden your news sources. I'm fast to admit I turn to FNC first, but even I have a broader perspective than you do. And that's not easy to pull off.
mrplunkey
New member
yes, i'll certainly "follow your lead"
Good call. You'd find it very educational.
Be honest. Did you even know about the $45b in government-owned corporate welfare?
I'm always surprised the way businesses are propped up. I know that there's talk about what to cut right now to bring down the debt. I would of thought that things like this and cutting defense would be first up. Actually, I was thinking that defense would be cut first (so that the home front can be taken care of) , then local entitlements, then this.
I'd get blown straight out the water in a political/economic discussion with you guys but I see a story like this and I'm just hesitant to scoff.
It's important to consider the way GM is positioned in our economy. It's health affects not just it's own employees but those of hundreds of other companies as well. Some small businesses sell practically their entire product to GM. Problems at the core ripple out at home as well as internationally.
Whatever you think of Obama's stimulus package to the poor, it has brought a measure of immediate relief. We're not any worse off than before. In a mixed bag economy like we have now, I don't see what's wrong trying the same thing with other stressed sectors.
As I said, I lack expertise to assess the soundness of this particular action, but the point I'm trying to make is that this could be a positive. Sure, we have to pay for it all eventually. Finding the less painful path is going to involve keeping an open mind.
It's important to consider the way GM is positioned in our economy. It's health affects not just it's own employees but those of hundreds of other companies as well. Some small businesses sell practically their entire product to GM. Problems at the core ripple out at home as well as internationally.
Whatever you think of Obama's stimulus package to the poor, it has brought a measure of immediate relief. We're not any worse off than before. In a mixed bag economy like we have now, I don't see what's wrong trying the same thing with other stressed sectors.
As I said, I lack expertise to assess the soundness of this particular action, but the point I'm trying to make is that this could be a positive. Sure, we have to pay for it all eventually. Finding the less painful path is going to involve keeping an open mind.
mrplunkey
New member
The big 3 are Medicare, Social Security and Defense. I'm all for slashing defense a good 60%, but it's wasted effort if you don't work on Medicare and Social Security as well. And even then, that's assuming we don't implement Obamacare which could easily become the mother of all entitlements.
The thing is that most people have no idea how a bankruptcy actually works.
All the uninformed assumed that the moment GM declared bankruptcy, there would be a blinding white light and the company and all of its assets would vaporize into oblivion.
Thats not the way it works. For proof, see the fact that GM ended up declaring bankruptcy anyway 2 months after they got our loan.
The bailout was simply designed to use various loopholes to screw the bondholders (eg those who actually pay for GM to remain in business) out of their money while giving kickbacks to the United Auto Workers. So, Obama basically nullified the written legal contract that all the bondholders had with GM.
The only more blatant way Obama could have purchased the UAW votes is to have simply gone around and cut a check to each UAW employee personally.
What Obama did to the bondholders of GM is borderline criminal...and Im not exaggerating one bit. I remember him calling the bondholders "greedy speculators." LOL. California Public Schools & the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation were some of the top holders of GM debt. Do they sound like "greedy speculators" to anyone?
I'm not on board with the incoming republican congress throwing all sorts of investigations around for the sake of being assholes, but the bailout of GM is the one thing our governing body should look in to.
True. I'm also surprised how much is spent on heath care (per patient) compared to the other countries.
mrplunkey
New member
What Obama is doing to the poor is the ultimate form of taxation: Inflation. He's cultivating the seeds to ultimately undermine our dollar.
Someone with a $3M building will be fine. Their building will still be worth multiple times that when our dollar devalues. Someone making $10/hour is screwed, because their wages will never keep pace with the devaluation.
mrplunkey
New member
The rest of the world doesn't realize the gap between our citizens' expectations and our system's capacity to deal with them.
We expect to do more and more and look better and better at older ages, yet we're doing less and less to support those wishes. We expect multi-million dollar per person healthcare (over a lifetime) to fill-in the gap.
bakemeacookie
New member
No one ever bitches about welfare to the rich. The elites have done a good job at making the middle class fight the lower class while the rich rapes them both.
It's been like this forever cuz the masses are too fucking stupid to realize how they keep getting ass-fucked. And when depressions occur - they pay the price first.
c
It's been like this forever cuz the masses are too fucking stupid to realize how they keep getting ass-fucked. And when depressions occur - they pay the price first.
c
mrplunkey
New member
I'm completely opposed to corporate welfare.
Offer all high-income earners a globally-competitive, low tax rate then stop 100% of the hand-outs.
so it's super win when taking inflation percents into consideration.
meh it's kinda scandalous to make it seem like it's our money.
not really, it's GM's money that they've earned.
in order to keep the auto bizz stateside and other biz as well,
the taxes have to be friendly and competitive.
not a good time to see more business moving south/east/wtf direction they go now in days.
right?
I am totally against Obama and pretty much all of his policies. However i wanted to say maybe we should look at this another way. In my local county I live in they offer basicaly no property taxes to any business that moves to the county for like 20years. I wish i didnt have to pay property taxes for 20 years. I bring this up not because I agree with giving 45billion to GM nor do I agree with giving 20 years free property taxes to a sausage plant, but i bring it up to say that GM is not being treated special......large companys get lots of tax breaks.
are we really giving them 45b or allowing them to keep the money
they've earned?
i think the ladder...and it seems a good move imo
mrplunkey
New member
Agree on this part, but it's got to be for everyone -- not just the car company that was taken-over by the government.
If they can't make it work under their own rules, change the rules for everyone.
b0und
New member
I'm with the economic rationalists on this one.
Failing companies should fail, not be propped up by taxpayers. That includes Wall Street investment banks and GM.
Let them die, other companies will fill the void, people will still buy cars and shit.
Going along with the whole bailout just shows both sides of politics serve the rich.
b0und (2 cents)
Failing companies should fail, not be propped up by taxpayers. That includes Wall Street investment banks and GM.
Let them die, other companies will fill the void, people will still buy cars and shit.
Going along with the whole bailout just shows both sides of politics serve the rich.
b0und (2 cents)
yep, hodgepodge of various loohoples and breaks for
certain stuff and not others is not business friendly at all.
think how much money has got to be spent on a legal team studying all this bs.
mrplunkey
New member
And it's not really government's fault either. Of course they're going to screw-up anything they touch.
It's like handing an 8 year old a loaded revolver and then getting mad when something bad happens. What else would you expect?
PICK3
New member
javaguru
Banned
Chrysler got Toledo to use eminent domain to take the private property of unwilling homeowners for their new plant years ago along with numerous tax breaks, it was such a big deal Ralph Nader showed up. The new plant was so efficient they were able to cut their payroll tax to the city in half due to less employees needed.
Repost, How GM paid back their loan...
Repost, How GM paid back their loan...
mustang_00
Well-known member
i think it would be cool to cum fire... like some sorta futuristic dragon human!! the only downfall i see is 3rd degree burning a chick. but, you'd figure they'd have some sort of immunity to it and it wouldn't effect them in a negative way.
bakemeacookie
New member
imagine this in 1940:
"Federal government offers $45B stimulus to horse and buggy manufacturers. 50,000 jobs in the horse & buggy industries were saved! Unions happy."
c
"Federal government offers $45B stimulus to horse and buggy manufacturers. 50,000 jobs in the horse & buggy industries were saved! Unions happy."
c
PICK3
New member
I think this argument would hold weight if we lived in a capitalist economy. Money has been shunted to so many sectors here and abroad through so many legal and extra legal means that I don't believe you can apply traditional economic modeling.
It seems better to prop up areas of duress and give ourselves some breathing room while we work out of the hole we've dug for ourselves. We're not in any imminent danger but sooner or later the piper will be paid.
I understand the point you're making about bankruptcy, 75th. An idea can only be as good as the people who administer it. Now that they've taken our money, it seems justifiable to find out what happened to it.
Sounds like what the 'real world' needs is some EF style moderating to sort out the unruly and improve our gene pool.
That may be true. I personally am of the mindset that the continuous propping up only leads to worse crises down the road. IMO 2007-2009 was a direct result of our propping up of the economy in 2001 and after the LTCM blowup in the late 1990s.
When you think about it, the government lowering interest rates and spending trillions on construction jobs is only creating another bubble. What happens to the tens of thousands of construction workers 5 years from now when the jobs finish and the stimulus money is spent?
Japan tried the EXACT same strategy after their financial collapse and look where it got them.
mrplunkey
New member
Perhaps we could send GM some all-natural pot-powered 400% efficient turbines instead of our $45B.
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