Win chun?

[Bozwell]

I know a guy at my gym who used to do win chun(sp?)and he showed my a bit and was amazed at the amount of power he could produce in such a small space and he went on to say quite abit about it ,how its all about relaxing untill striking the making power from the floor and keeping in strait lines ,and fuck me could he strike
any one else heard of this art?

 

[Djimbe]

I have a Teaching Cirtificate in it . What would you like to know ?

In fact , here , one of the best Writers on the subject :

http://www.tempewingchun.com/content_article.html

You have to be careful where your Wing CHun comes from though , the most popular teacher of Wing Chun is a guy that never earned his Cirtificate , and claims that he has the "Secret" WC , even though he moved away from the school in his Teens and never completed his Training in the system . This has brought about MANY piss-Poor Representatives of the style , and caused many instances of WC Vs WC infighting . In the most famous incident the Teacher in question says that he can defeat ANY WC Practitioner , and a Second Year Student just basically drags him to the ground and humps him without him doing anythign about it . This Video is the cause of much Controversy and is TOTALLY NOT representative of the system of WC , just Representative of what happens when Charlitains act like Masters . Actually the Attacker in the Video grew up to be quite good , but ppl only remember him from that Video , wich was like 20 years ago , and he had had less than 2 years of Training at that time and was basically Brawling .

 

[Bozwell]

Cheers for that, theres a bit to read there..K the guys going to show me some basic stuff to give me an idea how it works ,he reckons its the ultimate way to fight ,

 

[shootfighter1975]

I have a friend in Blackpool UK who studies it. He showed me some of the basic concepts and I found it quite interesting. It was a different learning experience for me as I come from a submission grappling/BJJ background.

 

[druncanwaria]

Have found that it is not that practical unless you have like 20 yrs experience... but i guess after 20 yrs of trainingat anything your an athlete so already have an upper hand...
Hope i dont offend... obviously i have not seen every WC fighter alive

 

[Bozwell]

Have found that it is not that practical unless you have like 20 yrs experience... but i guess after 20 yrs of trainingat anything your an athlete so already have an upper hand...
Hope i dont offend... obviously i have not seen every WC fighter alive

Ive only spoke to 2 first hand both were good at what they did and the power they could pruduce in such a sort space is insane!
Im a well rounded fighter bjj.mt and judo and would be wary going up against a wing chun man

 

[druncanwaria]

i agree, and i felt the same.. But when it comes to standing there and fighting it out i just havent seen them deliver the goods.. ive seen 3 fights with 3 different people who practice WC. One of them i was involved in and was even a bit worried

 

[digger]

Wing chun was invented by a woman, who understood that upper-body strength alone was not going to be a winning strategy for her. There's a lot about it I like.

 

[Djimbe]

Have found that it is not that practical unless you have like 20 yrs experience... but i guess after 20 yrs of trainingat anything your an athlete so already have an upper hand...
Hope i dont offend... obviously i have not seen every WC fighter alive

20 YEARS ???

They need a better Teacher . WC should be producing fighters inside of three years .

Im betting its that William Cheung WC .

 

[druncanwaria]

Not to sure... the name Barry lee always came up with them i dont know how far up the chain he is

 

[druncanwaria]

this is it http://www.vingtsun.net.au/

 

[Djimbe]

*shrug*

Being able to fight =/= being able to teach others to fight . Ive never met this particular guy , but Ive never met a student of Wong Shun Leung's that couldnt go . Thats not representative of ALL WT/WC/VT , mind you , some ppl just stink out loud , but WSL is the real thing , from a Fighting perspective .

 

[H_T_]

i just head butt and kick people while they're on the ground.

 

[tin2]

Wing chun was invented by women... I took some before wasnt impressed at all.!! Even in the early UFC matches some WC guys tried out and got beat.... I mean its good if ur fighting smaller ppl or woman .. But trying to use WC on a big guy or someone stronger is very unlikely.. Ever hear about anyone using WC in MMA and doing well .. PLease show me.. May as well do tai chi mang.. No offense to any WC martial artists..

 

[Djimbe]

shows what you know about Tai chi .

 

[Djimbe]

Tai Chi students fighting full Contact and FC techniques :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Meh80BbabI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rypKaf2i5_M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UbrsLsQXKM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cel1-hIO_dc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9yLvyocnKQ

Wing Chun guys :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV4Jq6H9pEQ&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiSYTNJDvUg&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KPPtV4DUIU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmYAueIuxHY&mode=related&search=

German WT sparring full Contact , some against BJJ (series) :

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=joergus

 

[tin2]

Thx for posting thoughs... I can see tai chi is more like kids playing .. Wing chun I know is like that, but when trainning they are moving very slow, in a "real" fight they wouldnt do so good with someone with experience, or of larger size. Hence they dont make it in the MMA world..

 

[Djimbe]

One of those Videos shows a Taiji player thwarting the takedown attemps of a National Team Wrestler 50 lbs heavier than him with relative ease . So I guess Wrestling isnt good enough for "the MMA world" either , eh ?

Oh , and Taiji only moves slow doing one Form , Wing Chun actually moves quite fast when training .

Oh , and relating Taiji Training to "kids Playing" is like relating Bjj "rolling" to limp sex .

 

[tin2]

One of those Videos shows a Taiji player thwarting the takedown attemps of a National Team Wrestler 50 lbs heavier than him with relative ease . So I guess Wrestling isnt good enough for "the MMA world" either , eh ?

Oh , and Taiji only moves slow doing one Form , Wing Chun actually moves quite fast when training .

Oh , and relating Taiji Training to "kids Playing" is like relating Bjj "rolling" to limp sex .

Hahaha .. man dont get so offended.. I have my opinons..No wrestling ALONE is not good enough for the MMA world Striking is a key also. I still think yeah it looks like kids playing , and yeah thoughs videos u show me show slow trainning.. Im sure a wing chun master can hit a coat rack very fast .. But its still for woman.. Lets see a tai chi or wing chun master top black belt fight a guy like kimbo.. The kicks and punches in wing chun are very weak compaired to thoughs of Muay thai and boxing.. And im SURE they can't take a hit as well as a thaiboxer/boxer.. bbj aint nothing without striking either ..so yeah when I watch UFC and they look like they having limp sex.. I change the channel cause its fuking boring.. U gotta take this in concept out of the ring/mats in to a real fight on the street or in a situation where u'd need to use it.. No matter what u say when it comes down to it.. IN all the PRIDE or UFC or K1 or MMA fights in the world , best of the best martial artisit.. these forms dont make it..

 

[Saiyagin]

You said the kicks and punches in wing chun are very weak? What gave you that assumption a video lol....unless you experienced the power of a good Wingchun practitioner I wouldnt comment on that untill youve felt it for yourself.

A Wing Chun Master fight Kimbo? If weight and size is equal as Kimbo is like a Giant as most Wing Chun fighters are on the smaller side except for Djimbe lol.

You also said that IN all the PRIDE or UFC or K1 or MMA fights in the world , best of the best martial artisit.. these forms dont make it..well take a look at Chuck Liddels straight rapid fire crosses thats very similar to Wing chuns straight blast that alot of MMA stole and changed it to the Boxers straight Blast.

 

[tin2]

If you read the whole post u would have read that I took wing chun before.. The kicks are based on a snaping action like karate , comapiring that to a muay thai kickboxer kicks, yes are very weak.. I would rather get hit by a experienced wing chun practitioner then a boxer or kickboxer..

Fighting kimbo , bouncers, stronger and bigger ppl, the wing chun moves wont work , thats what i was saying... Most wing chun fighters are smaller because they are women, invented by women ...

Yes and in PRIDE and UFC and K1, Wing chun doesnt cut it, and what do u mean liddels straigh rapid fire crosses "look similar" to wingchun shit.. u know anyone can say that, but i bet liddel didnt get it from wing chun mang..

 

[Saiyagin]

If you read the whole post u would have read that I took wing chun before.. The kicks are based on a snaping action like karate , comapiring that to a muay thai kickboxer kicks, yes are very weak.. I would rather get hit by a experienced wing chun practitioner then a boxer or kickboxer..

Fighting kimbo , bouncers, stronger and bigger ppl, the wing chun moves wont work , thats what i was saying... Most wing chun fighters are smaller because they are women, invented by women ...

Yes and in PRIDE and UFC and K1, Wing chun doesnt cut it, and what do u mean liddels straigh rapid fire crosses "look similar" to wingchun shit.. u know anyone can say that, but i bet liddel didnt get it from wing chun mang..

Its not the Art its the person utilizing that art so either you wasnt that good or your teacher sucks lol... as for the kicks I let you do a Muay Thai round kick to my thigh and I will do a snap kick to your knee cap and we will see who still standing lol.....

You not getting it size does matter to a degree If Kimbo new Wing chun and he fought a 125lbs 5'2" MMA top rank fighter my money would still be on Kimbo and not because he knows Wing chun lol....as for the women comment thats so funny lol.

He might not have gotton it from Wing chun but the technique concept is the same and Im sure Wing chun found that concept way before Chuck did and mostly anyone knows that lol....Like I said it depends on that individual person and how he utilizes and applys that particular technique to make it effective in a actual street fight or full contact combat situations.

Alot of people nowdays think that if a MMA fighter aint using that technique or style that its not effective or doesnt work please dont make me laugh hahahahaha its just that they dont know about it or dont understand how to use it or utilize it to its maximum potential.

 

[tin2]

Wharever man.. Im not gonna repeat my self again and again.. In the early UFC days wing chun masters tryed out and got there asses worked..

As for size, Have you ever seen those little thai guys fight.. I mean i would put my money on them over a big guy. Wing chun was invented by women to protect againt smaller opponents. Im not saying hit for hit it would be even for a smaller wing chun fighter against a kimbo, but a lot of wing chun moves wouldnt work on a bigger guy if you where using it as self defense.

If you kick me in the knee with your wing chun kick, "ouch".. If you kick me in your knee with a muay thai kick, "break" .. Tsk Tsk

 

[Red Bull]

I know a guy at my gym who used to do win chun(sp?)and he showed my a bit and was amazed at the amount of power he could produce in such a small space and he went on to say quite abit about it ,how its all about relaxing untill striking the making power from the floor and keeping in strait lines ,and fuck me could he strike
any one else heard of this art?

Hello mate.
Wing Chun is Wing Chun! I mean, it's a respectable art,
it can - and does - work for a lot of people.

I grew up watching my brother on Wing Chun. He was fortunate enough to learn from some very good teachers/attend seminars etc back in the '80s in the UK (lol!, dunno why but it always seems like some mythical golden age for WC)...

Personally speaking, it's not for me (although that signifies very little). I also just got sick of the whole 'kung fu wars'/ridiculous egos that (unfortunately) also characterized this time - for WC and kung fu in general.

There are many reservations which I still have about Wing Chun but they are just that, personal observations/opinions. For example, I love the idea of centre-line punching, but I still don't think there is ANY way to compare its effects (in terms of power at least) with those of boxing strikes.
I love that WC is one of the more (most?) practical/realistic kung fu styles, but I still think there is no way you can compare its conditioning with the likes of thai-boxing etc. Deep down, I will probablly always have suspicions over the final, ultimate workability of 'trapping and tie-ing up' - which seems to be such a big part of WC's techniques..

But hey, each to their own right?
There's certainly loads of Wing Chun people who are unqestionably lethal!
And who knows - if you try it, you just might fall in love with it and become WC for life!

 

[Saiyagin]

Hello mate.
Wing Chun is Wing Chun! I mean, it's a respectable art,
it can - and does - work for a lot of people.

I grew up watching my brother on Wing Chun. He was fortunate enough to learn from some very good teachers/attend seminars etc back in the '80s in the UK (lol!, dunno why but it always seems like some mythical golden age for WC)...

Personally speaking, it's not for me (although that signifies very little). I also just got sick of the whole 'kung fu wars'/ridiculous egos that (unfortunately) also characterized this time - for WC and kung fu in general.

There are many reservations which I still have about Wing Chun but they are just that, personal observations/opinions. For example, I love the idea of centre-line punching, but I still don't think there is ANY way to compare its effects (in terms of power at least) with those of boxing strikes.
I love that WC is one of the more (most?) practical/realistic kung fu styles, but I still think there is no way you can compare its conditioning with the likes of thai-boxing etc. Deep down, I will probablly always have suspicions over the final, ultimate workability of 'trapping and tie-ing up' - which seems to be such a big part of WC's techniques..

But hey, each to their own right?
There's certainly loads of Wing Chun people who are unqestionably lethal!
And who knows - if you try it, you just might fall in love with it and become WC for life!

First off I would say good respectable post. Second Im not trying to say that Wingchun is the ultimate fighting style or the best style as every style has there flaws or weaknesses as well as there strengths but to say its not effective and cant be used for real fighting and or has no power is a understatement. Also I use the Jeet Kune Do concepts of use what ever works for you reject what doesnt work for you and add to what is essentially your own by taking only the strenghts of each different styles and not there weaknesses. Basically when you think about it alot of MMA fighters are using Bruce Lee's theory by combining the best of different styles that work for them the main two being Muay Thai kickboxing combined with any kind of Grappling style. IMO the more you add to your bag of arsenals the better you become as a more well rounded fighter by exploring different concepts and philosiphies instead of being closed minded and only doing what your teacher taught you.

 

[Red Bull]

First off I would say good respectable post. Second Im not trying to say that Wingchun is the ultimate fighting style or the best style as every style has there flaws or weaknesses as well as there strengths but to say its not effective and cant be used for real fighting and or has no power is a understatement. Also I use the Jeet Kune Do concepts of use what ever works for you reject what doesnt work for you and add to what is essentially your own by taking only the strenghts of each different styles and not there weaknesses. Basically when you think about it alot of MMA fighters are using Bruce Lee's theory by combining the best of different styles that work for them the main two being Muay Thai kickboxing combined with any kind of Grappling style. IMO the more you add to your bag of arsenals the better you become as a more well rounded fighter by exploring different concepts and philosiphies instead of being closed minded and only doing what your teacher taught you.

Thanks for the compliment mate
and I appreciate your post too.
I agree. 'Do what works for you'! I mean
that's basically the golden rule. It's really as simple as that...so much so that if 'doing what works for you' means disregarding even a JKD technique -disregard it! Or if doing what works for you means being (shock!) a 'traditionalist', then be one!

 

[big tav]

Tin2 said:
Wing chun was invented by women... I took some before wasnt impressed at all.!! Even in the early UFC matches some WC guys tried out and got beat.... I mean its good if ur fighting smaller ppl or woman .. But trying to use WC on a big guy or someone stronger is very unlikely.. Ever hear about anyone using WC in MMA and doing well .. PLease show me.. May as well do tai chi mang.. No offense to any WC martial artists..
Wharever man.. Im not gonna repeat my self again and again.. In the early UFC days wing chun masters tryed out and got there asses worked..

Tin mate you really have no idea what you are talking about. I usually don't get into this forum crap but i will this time. Just because some Wing Chun guys got in the ring and lost doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means THEY weren't good enough. What people forget is that there is a loser every match. If a BJJ guy gets knocked out by Liddell does that make BJJ shit? NO. If Liddell gets choked out does that make his kick boxing shit? NO. It comes down to the practioner every time.

Also, about saying that it doesn't work on a bigger opponent is just ignorant. THAT IS WHAT IT IS DESIGNED TO DO! I am 6ft 105 kg and one of the instructors is about 5'9 and 70kg and SPANKS MY ARSE WITH SUCH EASE and I have trained in several styles. I can not put a single hand or foot on him PERIOD.

As for WC not working in the UFC you have to remember UFC is a sport with rules. WC relies 100% in inflicting as damage to the most sensitive spots so ANYONE can win. Kneecaps, groin, throat, eyes, floating ribs etc. Combine losing all of that plus putting gloves on and what is left? You have a boxing and wrestling match. That is why boxing fights can last 15 rounds. Take the gloves off and see how long they go for. It is no wonder the BJJ guys have such an advantage. In three 5minute rounds to tip you over. They wouldn't shoot as quickly if anything goes against a good fighter like Wong Shun Leung (RIP) or Barry Lee for that matter. That man is a machine and I would put him against a Gracie ANYTIME.

 

[Magick69]

Have found that it is not that practical unless you have like 20 yrs experience... but i guess after 20 yrs of trainingat anything your an athlete so already have an upper hand...
Hope i dont offend... obviously i have not seen every WC fighter alive

i am not a wing chun guy but there are good wing chun fighter, emin botzkepe comes to my mind..

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Tin2 said:
Wing chun was invented by women... I took some before wasnt impressed at all.!! Even in the early UFC matches some WC guys tried out and got beat.... I mean its good if ur fighting smaller ppl or woman .. But trying to use WC on a big guy or someone stronger is very unlikely.. Ever hear about anyone using WC in MMA and doing well .. PLease show me.. May as well do tai chi mang.. No offense to any WC martial artists..
Wharever man.. Im not gonna repeat my self again and again.. In the early UFC days wing chun masters tryed out and got there asses worked..

Tin mate you really have no idea what you are talking about. I usually don't get into this forum crap but i will this time. Just because some Wing Chun guys got in the ring and lost doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means THEY weren't good enough. What people forget is that there is a loser every match. If a BJJ guy gets knocked out by Liddell does that make BJJ shit? NO. If Liddell gets choked out does that make his kick boxing shit? NO. It comes down to the practioner every time.

Also, about saying that it doesn't work on a bigger opponent is just ignorant. THAT IS WHAT IT IS DESIGNED TO DO! I am 6ft 105 kg and one of the instructors is about 5'9 and 70kg and SPANKS MY ARSE WITH SUCH EASE and I have trained in several styles. I can not put a single hand or foot on him PERIOD.

As for WC not working in the UFC you have to remember UFC is a sport with rules. WC relies 100% in inflicting as damage to the most sensitive spots so ANYONE can win. Kneecaps, groin, throat, eyes, floating ribs etc. Combine losing all of that plus putting gloves on and what is left? You have a boxing and wrestling match. That is why boxing fights can last 15 rounds. Take the gloves off and see how long they go for. It is no wonder the BJJ guys have such an advantage. In three 5minute rounds to tip you over. They wouldn't shoot as quickly if anything goes against a good fighter like Wong Shun Leung (RIP) or Barry Lee for that matter. That man is a machine and I would put him against a Gracie ANYTIME.

If your hypothetical Gracie lost to a WC guy, BJJ guys could just use your own argument and say that particular Gracie just wasn't good enough at BJJ. They could come back with something like, "Barry Lee would lose to Rickson, Renzo, Roger, or 'some Gracie he never fought'." The BJJ defender could then even go so far as to say that Barry Lee would have lost to Count Maeda (RIP) if he was still alive.

The Gracie branch of BJJ was developed in NHB fights in Rio. Biting, gouging, groin strikes, hitting to the back of the head, was all allowed as the fights ofthen occured on the street or beach, not a ring.

 

[sshadoww]

I've studied Jeet Kun Do, which much of the foundation was derived from Bruce Lee's studying & evolvement from Wing Chun. If you ever get a chance to see a Francis Fong (Atlanta based but travels) demonstration, it's well worth it. He comes to NY every year for a 2 day demonstration- good stuff.

I know a guy at my gym who used to do win chun(sp?)and he showed my a bit and was amazed at the amount of power he could produce in such a small space and he went on to say quite abit about it ,how its all about relaxing untill striking the making power from the floor and keeping in strait lines ,and fuck me could he strike
any one else heard of this art?

 

[acneman]

I've studied Jeet Kun Do, which much of the foundation was derived from Bruce Lee's studying & evolvement from Wing Chun. If you ever get a chance to see a Francis Fong (Atlanta based but travels) demonstration, it's well worth it. He comes to NY every year for a 2 day demonstration- good stuff.

met francis twice in the 90's
very good
had a few problems with 2 of his top students though it was nothing i couldnt handle
one will never be certified to teach under fong in my opinion cause hes crazy the other was just arrogant till i showed him a little of what i could do then he chilled
now wing chun guys are best in the world at trapping
if you dont know what that is then you dont need to be in this discussion

as for early ufcs a lot of one martial art guys got dominated
karate and muy thai to name a few

trapping will make its way into the mma scene when someone does it and wins a fight with it
then joe will say "what was that? that was sick!" then you will have joe say 3 events later "yes this guy has been training trappin wit sifu fong in atlanta for the last 4 months and now hes an expert."
i see a huge advantage for someone who will use trapping to transition into and out of the clinch or prevent the clinch if they so desire