Will roid gains vanish EVEN if genetic potential is not reach yet?

[stevesmi]

Yes I was never on gear, Im 26, started lifting first time around 16 btw and I know that theres a lot of things going on in to build muscle, a lot of things that I never stop learning. but still a juicer that knows how to train will beat an natural that knows how to train anyday too ofcourse. Ofcourse, a totall beginner that doesnt know anything wont build any mass regardless of all the drugs in the world, that wasnt my point in my original post. I was talking about what would happen to the muscles scientific/biological/physiological wise and not in effect and terms of the trainees experience,which ofcourse as you mentioned would add a whole great deal of unlimited variables..

Thanx

well i will say that i lifted 15 years before touching steroids. and there were spurts in those 15 years where i literally worked out 6 days a week non stop.. heck our coach used to make us come in on saturdays and workout too, and then when i played college football our coach would demand we workout after practice. so i literally worked out for thousands and thousands of hours in my life so this was a huge advantage.

probably why once i did start to use roids i had such great results so fast. so in your situation working out for the past 10 years i would say you would react very well and would be at a huge advantage over someone your age who never touched a weight in his life and decided to use steroids

 

[Nelson Montana]

if he knew how to train he wouldn't be 40 pounds below his natural potential in the first place and just 160 pounds.
so yeah build a base first so you don't become dependent on roids

That.^^^

Also, the more muscle you build naturally, the more you hold onto enhanced gains. If ALL muscle is a result of steroids, you'll likely lose most of it.

And it isn't just PCT. PCT helps recovery but it doesn't guarantee success regardless to all bad habits. Products like BRIDGE help too. But NOBODY can hold 20 pounds of muscle on a 160 pound frame. You'll be lucky to keep 4 or 5 lbs.

 

[obsessedwliftin]

Nelson nailed it. With the help of bridge gains can be held and increased even after the cycle. However diet and training being on point have to be a given.

Sent from my DROIDX using EliteFitness

 

[bluetwistedsteel67]

Mature muscle lasts while new muscle is apt to disappear. In other words, if a person gains 20lbs of "muscle" (in your words) quickly, the majority of those gains will disappear when you take your body from a chemically enhanced state to a natural state. BUT, with proper training and diet, that person may hold 5-7lbs which is pretty frickin good for a short period. Actually it's exceptional! A big part of the reason for the loss of the gains is because that 20lbs is made of of a lot of water, much of which is held in the muscle. That's why it's so important to gain naturally and build a great base of dense, mature muscle before jumping into the gear game. If a person can keep 5-7lbs from every cycle and they are consistent with diet and training AND have reasonably good genetics and run their gear in a well thought out and resonsible manner, they will eventually become a pretty freakish specimen. It's all about consistency, focus and hard work over a long period of time. It's not about "I've been working out for a year and just want to gain an easy 10-15lbs"

 

[supadan]

Yes I was never on gear, Im 26, started lifting first time around 16 btw and I know that theres a lot of things going on in to build muscle, a lot of things that I never stop learning. but still a juicer that knows how to train will beat an natural that knows how to train anyday too ofcourse. Ofcourse, a totall beginner that doesnt know anything wont build any mass regardless of all the drugs in the world, that wasnt my point in my original post. I was talking about what would happen to the muscles scientific/biological/physiological wise and not in effect and terms of the trainees experience,which ofcourse as you mentioned would add a whole great deal of unlimited variables..

Thanx

Lol is this you asking for your self haha eat more 160 is nothing

 

[stevesmi]

bluetwisted made a great point in the simplest terms. fast gains don't last.. slow consistent gains do. its a physiological thing in my own experience.

also fast gains are usually just water weight and filling in a gap in your genetic potential. and the fact you had that much room to fill means you are doing a lot wrong in the first place as i said above and if you continue doing things wrong when you come off and lose motivation again then you will just go back down anyway

 

[drow2y]

It's upto you to keep most of gains by eating the same as on cycle if this drops off cycle obs your gains will drop also

 

[stevesmi]

It's upto you to keep most of gains by eating the same as on cycle if this drops off cycle obs your gains will drop also

the problem with this thinking is on cycle you have something that you don't have off cycle.

that is an anabolic and androgenic kick, high RBC and all the good stuff that helped you recover faster, build muscle faster, and be stronger. so its just not that simple to say just eat the same off cycle as on and you will hold your gains. for example on cycle i bench 355 raw which is pretty good for a guy who is my weight, when i am off cycle i cannot expect to bench that same amount. its a new barrier for me and on my next cycle i hope to break through it, but it won't be happening during my bridge.. i've gotta keep killing it off cycle and hold as much strength as i can.. then next cycle zoom up to 365 for example

 

[drow2y]

the problem with this thinking is on cycle you have something that you don't have off cycle.

that is an anabolic and androgenic kick, high RBC and all the good stuff that helped you recover faster, build muscle faster, and be stronger. so its just not that simple to say just eat the same off cycle as on and you will hold your gains. for example on cycle i bench 355 raw which is pretty good for a guy who is my weight, when i am off cycle i cannot expect to bench that same amount. its a new barrier for me and on my next cycle i hope to break through it, but it won't be happening during my bridge.. i've gotta keep killing it off cycle and hold as much strength as i can.. then next cycle zoom up to 365 for example

I hear ya

 

[ConanX]

The sooner you learn that you will lose muscle mass, vascularity, quality, and the low bodyfat percentage when OFF gear, the better. True cycling is a yo-yo effect.

Gear -> PCT -> break = Big and lean -> still pretty big and lean -> starting to shrink...2 months later small...still bigger than before you started but nowhere close

Only way to reall stay in the game at all times is to Blast and Cruise and take small breaks altogether here and there and to also run HCG throughout so your balls don't fade away and you can still have kids. You can also use products like HGH to try and bridge a cycle. But even so, you will never look the same without gear, though GH at a good dose will help you.

Just trying to give you the truth so you don't get illusions. If we kept what we gained and could PCT and stop, why would we keep cycling? I would be 225 at 8% bodyfat and walk around clean all day. But you can't do that. You either get fatter and keep weight or you stay lean but lose mass. That's why lots of guys do the "Blast and cruise." If doing this, get bloodwork done very periodically and again, I suggest HCG throughout to keep some function of the testes.