Why this war will end soon (my opinion)

[Razorguns]

I'll keep this brief - cuz i know most internet users have ADD.

I wrote this today cuz i'm 1) bored and 2) tired of people babbling about iraq w/o using any common sense.

This is is NOT a conspiracy theory, it is SOUND PROVEN BUSINESS LOGIC AND FUNDAMENTALS. Ask anyone who's made a business decision in their life - and they'll agree.

ONE LINE DESCRIPTION : The war will end, CUZ WE CANNOT AFFORD IT ANY LONGER.

DETAILED DESCRIPTION: The war in iraq was funded :

1) Through debt backed by FUTURE iraq oil revenues. Why do you think the first thing we did was secure the oil fields?

2) This is 2003. Interest rates are LOW. The govt borrowed against itself (thank god for social security) and raised money. Think of it as paying with a huge ass credit card. By 2008 we could have cheap iraqi oil coming in, paid off this debt, iraqis have democracy and jobs, we have a solid military presence in the ME, we have a us-backed govt in the middle east, isreal becomes more of an ally, we are next door now to iran, we can say FU to the saudis : EVERYONE WINS! BUSH LOOKS LIKE A GOD! (well that was the plan) USA! USA! USA! Honestly, how hard can it be to take over a country full of uneducated poor goat-herding arabs with stone age technology? C'mon!

3) The economy in 2003 was "growing". Sure it was backed by debt. Actual salaries weren't increasing. But life and economy was good. People were okay with setting aside $1T for a war. The housing boom was full-on. Peoples net worth was rising. Interest rates were low, and gas was cheap! Bring the war on bitch!

FAST FORWARD TO 2007/2008

1) That money for iraq is spent. The last bash of cash was approved, GRUDINGLY, by congress. We are now running on fumes. The govt barely has money to pay for body armor or new hummers. The surge was 20,000 not 80,000 cuz we can't afford to send over 80,000!

2) Iraq is NOWHERE close to generating oil revenue. Which was the backer of that debt.

3) The Bush admin is scrambling for new money. Bush is sending his people to China to try and raise money (read article below). BEGGING for investors to invest in the us.

4) The housing boom is busting. and crashing hard. Foreclosures are at an all-time high. Economy is slowing and about to go downward. The signs are there. Gas prices are rising. Soon to hit $4 by end of this year. $5 by next year. Recession is imminent.

5) A stock market crash is a VERY real possibility. Investor Confidence is falling.

WHAT TO DO?

STAY IN IRAQ 5-10 MORE YEARS?

1) With what money??!! Wars aren't paid by magic money fairies. It's paid with COLD HARD CASH. Cash that has to come from somewhere.

2) Cut budgets. Ouch! During recessions, 'support the troops' and 'support the war' take a backseat when people start losing jobs, can't afford to drive to work, and schools, hospitals, welfare, healthcare funds are cut. When gas hits $6/gallon, and people start losing jobs and they hear '$500 billlion is announced to continue a war' - - there'll be RIOTS in the streets.

3) Bush answers to his economists. Economy is the most important thing to a President. If it tanks - everything else is moot.

TRY TO END IT

1) Makes sense. We can't pay for it. Wallet is empty.

2) How do you do it w/saving face?

3) How do you do it w/o leaving it a total disaster?

4) These q's are hard, even RG can't answer. Neither can Bush. It's very tough.

TRY TO PASS IT OFF

1) Makes *political* sense

2) Stall the war until the election - then let the next adminsitration 'worry' about it.

3) Alienation from your party : They won't stand for that. They'll get their asses handed to them in the next election, and will get fucked over for supporting you all these years.

--

Okay kids. Notice NONE OF THAT INVOLVES DEMOCRACY, FREEDUMBS AND SECURITY. Funny huh?

The world, including wars, are run by MONEY.

Say that again MONEY...MONEY...MONEY...

Good. No money? No war.

Private Adams doesn't receive a paycheck? He ain't picking up that rifle knowing his kids and wife are starving about to be kicked out of their house.

Can't cut Budgets. People will riot in the streets if a long-war means higher taxes, and decreased social security and healthcare.

So the war --- will end.

And $1T will have been thrown out the trash can.

What else is new.

btw: here's that article on Bush's men running around China trying to give us money to bail our sorry post-housing-bust bankrupt asses out :

read it. be informed. stop being cnn sheep.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aE7I.0mnjrSY

r

 

[heatherrae]

Cliff notes?

 

[Razorguns]

Cliff notes?

i highlighted it dodohead!!

ONE LINE DESCRIPTION : The war will end, CUZ WE CANNOT AFFORD IT ANY LONGER.

 

[heatherrae]

i highlighted it dodohead!!

ONE LINE DESCRIPTION : The war will end, CUZ WE CANNOT AFFORD IT ANY LONGER.

Oh okay. thanks. lol.

We couldn't afford it this far! Hopefully it will end b/c we will have dem majority in Congress and a Dem prez.

 

[Tweakle]

who's going to protect the new billion dollar US embassy and it's staff of thousands if we act like cowards and cut and run? Doesn't sound like you thought this out too well

 

[heatherrae]

who's going to protect the new billion dollar US embassy and it's staff of thousands if we act like cowards and cut and run? Doesn't sound like you thought this out too well

ummm...what wasn't thought out is that we shouldn't have a billion dollar embassy and all that staff over there in the first place.

 

[Razorguns]

who's going to protect the new billion dollar US embassy and it's staff of thousands if we act like cowards and cut and run? Doesn't sound like you thought this out too well

a few thousand troops.

We can afford that.

r

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

We can't really afford anything but it doesn't seem to matter the way we throw money we don't have around. How long can this go on, regardless of war, before foreign investors have had enough? We are increasingly dependent on the service industry with less and less to fall back on in the event of a recession; a result of which could very well lead to an all out depression. Not to mention our Federal Reserve is one giant debt machine. On the surface everything here seems like one big party, but peel back the skin and there's a sickness that's been festering for decades. Only so long before the host has been bled dry.

 

[musclemom]

Watch the movie "Why we fight," it's running on my cable right now, interesting perspective on the true factors behind the business of war.

 

[Mr. dB]

So the 1 trillion we spent on the war, where did it go? I mean it didn't just dissappear down the toilet. Didn't it go to Lockheed-Martin, Haliburton, and other military suppliers? And to military salaries? So you'd think at least one sector of the economy would be flush with cash, no?

 

[Lestat]

good post nav

 

[justchilling]

interesting, by the way the iraqi population are highly educated. before we invaded iraq they had more college grads per capita than the us. every one there in ther 30 's and older have a college degree. just my 2 cents

 

[Nathan]

I'll keep this brief - cuz i know most internet users have ADD.

r

lmao @ I'll keep this brief. Dude, you're killing me.

 

[Razorguns]

interesting, by the way the iraqi population are highly educated. before we invaded iraq they had more college grads per capita than the us. every one there in ther 30 's and older have a college degree. just my 2 cents

4 million left the cities. the smart, educated were the first ones to leave.

r

 

[Megalomaniac]

Oh okay. thanks. lol.

We couldn't afford it this far! Hopefully it will end b/c we will have dem majority in Congress and a Dem prez.

they better bring someone besides Hil because she won't make it in.


As for the war ending you are correct but your reasons are only kinda accurate. We didn't fund the war from future Iraqi rev, we funded it from China(look into it you'll see). Our goal in Iraq wasn't revenue based it was to keep China and Russia from getting that oil. However you are correct in that the war will end and it will end because of fund appropriation, we won't stop spending but only use the money for something else.

 

[Razorguns]

Our goal in Iraq wasn't revenue based it was to keep China and Russia from getting that oil.

true. American oil companies were fearing other countries might start getting iraqi oil. A few interesting quotes from Cheney in 1999 confirm this.

As for china's loans - it wasn't a donation. They wanna be paid back. And we will. Slowly perhaps, but we will. Even if we have to overpay for walmart shit for the next 50 years. We will.

And our increasing of debt to pay for this clusterfuck is one of the reasons our dollar is falling like fuck. It's not just a 'coincidence'. Not only are americans overburdened with debt (can't wait to see suckers with $600k mortgages on $400k homes) but so is the govt.

The next administration is gonna have it's work cut out for them. You couldn't pay me enough to be the next President.

r

 

[Saintinistic]

what war? it was a one sided invasion. regardless of the motives it was an invasion into a land that doesnt want the US there. freeing the people with western influence only caused grief as they are not westerners with western thinking. who the hell thought democracy works for everyone, hell... it doesnt work for the west!

the people of Iraq have spoken, and the deaths are still speaking. trying to get rid of terrorism is like trying to eliminate rats from the corn fields... good luck with that chasing of your tail.

any western guidance only makes the government there look like a weak one relying on the West. too many people have died on both sides for bullshit and my heart goes out to their families.

replacing a tyrant with the West never changed a thing, it only replaced one view of 'peace' with another.

leave them to their futures, governed by themselves. send the troops home. to save one more life is worth sending them back. all deaths in battle are wasted, but especially if there is no winner.

 

[Megalomaniac]

true. American oil companies were fearing other countries might start getting iraqi oil. A few interesting quotes from Cheney in 1999 confirm this.

As for china's loans - it wasn't a donation. They wanna be paid back. And we will. Slowly perhaps, but we will. Even if we have to overpay for walmart shit for the next 50 years. We will.

And our increasing of debt to pay for this clusterfuck is one of the reasons our dollar is falling like fuck. It's not just a 'coincidence'. Not only are americans overburdened with debt (can't wait to see suckers with $600k mortgages on $400k homes) but so is the govt.

The next administration is gonna have it's work cut out for them. You couldn't pay me enough to be the next President.

r

OK so now we agree a bit but what were we to do about the situation in the first place. See here is where my problem lies with people compaining, anyone can sit back and complain about the way something went but what was a better option? What route should we have gone and then once that question is answered then face the question on what we do from here. If one can answer both of those questions logically then I will start to listen to their complaints, otherwise it is just rambling to be heard.

 

[Razorguns]

what war? it was a one sided invasion. regardless of the motives it was an invasion into a land that doesnt want the US there. freeing the people with western influence only caused grief as they are not westerners with western thinking. who the hell thought democracy works for everyone, hell... it doesnt work for the west!

the people of Iraq have spoken, and the deaths are still speaking. trying to get rid of terrorism is like trying to eliminate rats from the corn fields... good luck with that chasing of your tail.

any western guidance only makes the government there look like a weak one relying on the West. too many people have died on both sides for bullshit and my heart goes out to their families.

replacing a tyrant with the West never changed a thing, it only replaced one view of 'peace' with another.

leave them to their futures, governed by themselves. send the troops home. to save one more life is worth sending them back. all deaths in battle are wasted, but especially if there is no winner.

that and douchebag Bush made two massive mistakes

1) surrounding himself with old white military-raised men to tell him about 'iraq'. old white men don't know what goes through the minds of young male arabs in far away poor countries. He should've surrounded himself with iraqi-americans. They could've told him on day 1 about 'secretarian strife'

2) he had the war run by a businessman - Rumsfeld. Now he's 'listening to generals on the ground'. Too little, too late. For years he listened to Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz. And 3,000 lives paid the price, with zero progress to show for it.

the war'll be over by next year. If you're a democrat, you can only HOPE AND DREAM that Bush keeps troops over there. That way, the us voters can massacre the republicans in nov. If you're a republican - you can only HOPE Bush starts sending troops home soon, so you might have a tiny weeny bit of hope to win in nov.

Pelosi is smart. She's mind-fucking Bush the way she wants him. She knows Bush is arrogant, and by keeping 'bring the troops home' a DEMOCRAT agenda - Bush keeps rejecting it. Which is what she wants. And in nov - republicans will be slaughtered cuz of that. Pelosi isn't an idiot.

The last thing she wants is for the troops to come home. Then the nov election is up in the air.

r

 

[Longhorn85]

By 2008 we could have cheap iraqi oil coming in, paid off this debt, iraqis have democracy and jobs, we have a solid military presence in the ME, we have a us-backed govt in the middle east, isreal becomes more of an ally, we are next door now to iran, we can say FU to the saudis : EVERYONE WINS! BUSH LOOKS LIKE A GOD! (well that was the plan) USA! USA! USA!


So the war --- will end.

1) that scenario you laid out is still a good one for long term US interests, even if it happens in 2015 instead of 2008.

2) It not only costs a bundle to fight a war, it costs a bundle to end a war. So we are going to have to find some money somewhere anyway. Might as well finish the job for the sake of long term interests.

To go back to your business model: the war is already a sunk cost.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

the war wont end. the bases are there, and staying. sure, some troops might come back. overt (expensive) operations might slow down...for now...but US presence will remain until something changes - or something happens - to sway opinion at home and then itll start again. countries dont have lifespans of 70 years like people do. they can wait.

as for the money thats been spent, as has already been said - it didnt flow out of america. it just went from the pocket of the taxpayer into the pocket of the halliburtons of the world, and landed, for all intents and purposes, right back in the USA

consider this: a falling US dollar is pretty fantastic for the US, when lots of US foreign debt is IN US DOLLARS...yet US companies have already bought/control resources in those very lender countries.

step 1 - increase value of US dollar
step 2 - sell lots of US dollars to other countries for their resources/economic apparatii
step 3 - use whatever you bought from those countries to do..whatever it is you want to do (fight a war)
step 4- devalue the US dollar
step 5 - use your previously purchased/controlled resources/economic aparatii in lender countries to make lots of LOCAL dollars, which you then use to pay your US dollar debt

not really brain surgery.

the chinese bought oodles of US dollars, and theyll get every single one back...when theyre worth much less

cheerios

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

headache

 

[Razorguns]

watch 'progress in iraq' to mysteriously start appearing next few months.

followed by troop withdrawal and Bush declaring victory.

Coincidence? Hmmmmm...

politics is hillarious. even hillarious - stupid sheep americans falling for it.

r

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

By all rights there should be riots in the street NOW.

A class of 3rd graders could come up with enough evidence to throw Bush behind bars.

 

[Powerbuilder333]

Your ramblings are full of contradictions and blatent inaccuracies. To many to bother listing.
How about this; if the price of 89 octane unleaded gas ISN'T over $4.00 per gallon by the end of this year (as you claimed it will be) - you ban yourself from EF forever?
Back your shit up, or STFU!

 

[b0und]

consider this: a falling US dollar is pretty fantastic for the US, when lots of US foreign debt is IN US DOLLARS...yet US companies have already bought/control resources in those very lender countries.

yep, I think our Dollar is as as high right now to the US$ as it has ever been and I can remember it being as low as $0.50.


b0und (it's all about the money)

 

[Razorguns]

Your ramblings are full of contradictions and blatent inaccuracies. To many to bother listing.
How about this; if the price of 89 octane unleaded gas ISN'T over $4.00 per gallon by the end of this year (as you claimed it will be) - you ban yourself from EF forever?
Back your shit up, or STFU!

it already hit $4 here 2 months ago dumbass.

gas was .99c/gallon back in 99 in new jersey.

r

 

[Powerbuilder333]

I just bought 89 octane for $2.91 at Chevron. If you paid $4 then you're the dumbass - LOL.
Stop by Vegas I'll sell you all the $4 gas you can afford.
Get to the gym and build up your finger strength so you can start to use your shift key. You can dooo it!

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

Interesting how the human mind works, with all the shit going on everyone has seemed to forgot how we got into this situation in the first place, which was a bunch of lies, and that should be enough to put those in power away forever. IMO people should be outraged by this. I certainly don't have a love affair with the Middle East, but when Rumsfeld came right out and said we're there for the oil on TV and people still deny it and believe that...........

Whatever.

 

[Powerbuilder333]

I remember how we came to be in Iraq.
Sadaam Hussein defied UN orders to allow inspectors into Iraq. He also defied the terms of the cease fire agreement from the Gulf War. We were honor bound to remove him from power. It should have happened during the Clinton administration, but he was busy rocking out with his cock out. Or if you prefer it should have happened during the HW Bush administration, but he was more concerned with showing the world that we were a "kinder, gentler nation".
My point is it needed to happen. The savage people of this world never respect kindness. They only respect our ability and willingness to unleash our military might.
A great book was written called "Everything I needed to know I learned in kindergarden". So true. I learned at a early age the only way to deal with a bully was to bust him in the face untill the teachers pulled you off of him. If someone wants to take your lunch money (or oil), fuck them up!

 

[Razorguns]

I remember how we came to be in Iraq.
Sadaam Hussein defied UN orders to allow inspectors into Iraq.

so how's that brain-washing-by-cnn working out for ya?

think the troops are still running around trying to find these secret nuclear wmd factories?!

rumsfeld, cheney and bush have all said the reasons for the wars - if u read back comments from 99-02. it's not hard to find. as soon as the war was announced, their words became scripted and staged and had plenty of cool keywords like 'freedom, wmd, liberty, al qaeda, etc.'.

never listen to a leader's war after it starts. listen to it before it does.

r

 

[Powerbuilder333]

You crack me up.
I'm to cheap to pay for cable TV, so the only cable I see is at work, which has FOX news locked in. I've held my beliefs long before I became a O'Rilley Factor fan.
I hope our great soldiers aren't wasting time looking for WMD in Iraq. If they ever existed they've been moved to Iran and Syria. Saddam claimed he had them, that's reason enough to string him up. Bush and his "friends" didn't come to power untill January 2001, and I don't remember Al-Quida or Iraq being a campaign issue during 2000. I think Bush's main campaign theme was "family values" i.e. don't stick your dick in interns, or at least don't get caught - LOL.
Personal question: What's with the Reagan quote? From your posts you seem way to pesimistic to actually believe those words, so is it your way of mocking the dead?

 

[anthrax]

Why would they started this war to prevent Russia and China from having Iraqi's oil?

Russia has its own or at least natural gas
and China has enough $$$ to buy plenty of oil from Nigeria, Libya, Iran etc

 

[Razorguns]

and China has enough $$$ to buy plenty of oil from Nigeria, Libya, Iran etc

iraq could outbid them.

Bush ain't spending $1T to look for non-existent WMD's or achieve 'freedumbs' for poor arabs who don't like us anyways. He isn't that stupid.

but brain-dead americans are.

r