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Why the vast majority should avoid 17aa roids

Realgains

New member
There really is no need for anyone to use 17aa roids, except perhaps for power lifters that do not want to gain much body weight. For the power athlete there may be times for hormones like Halo and anavar.

WAIT A MINUTE you say.....".I got great results from d-bol and anandrol." TRUE, you probably did as these hormones are very powerful steroids, however, there is a health trade off when using these roids and more so than when using non 17aa injectables.

SO WHAT IS SO BAD ABOUT 17 aa ROIDS?

Simply put they are quite hard on the liver and especially the cholesterol profile. HDL will take a huge nose dive in most men when these roids are used in decent enough doses for good gains.
The three most toxic steroid on the planet are #1. Anandrol #2. Halo and #3 D-bol and probably in that order. Anandrol is probably the worst since such a large mg dose is needed in order to see good gains and this means more of the 17aa compound has to be used in order to protect the hormone from the human digestive tract.

WHAT ABOUT ANAVAR...isn't it easy on the liver?
NO IT IS NOT! Taken in doses that are needed for gains it is hard on the liver and cholesterol/hdl profile.

WHAT ABOUT WINNY?

Winstrol is 17aa in both its oral and injectable form.
It has the distinction of being especially hard on the cholesterol /hdl profile. If you insist on taking winny then be sure to inject it as this avoids the "first pass" through the liver. When a steroid is taken orally it is rapidly transported to the liver through the portal vein and all is detoxified at once by this organ. This is stressful to the liver and more so than most men think.
If you inject the winny it takes days for the hormone to make it through the liver and this of course is far more tolerable. So inject the winny bro's or better yet forget about it and use tren....its a way better builder anyway.


WHAT TO "TAKE" INSTEAD

Trenbolone acetate is not 17aa and it is a very powerful steroid. In fact mg per mg nothing is more poweful than tren. It can be used in combination with test for fantastic muscle and strength growth. It is also fantastic in a cutting cycle with either a small dose of test, simply for sex drive reasons, or with 100mg of the non17aa oral proviron. Proviron will not only keep your sex drive alive but it will also bind strongly to plasma binding proteins such as SHBG and this will allow more tren(or any other AAS) to stay in an unbound state, which is exactly what you want for great gains.

WAIT A MINUTE ...ISN'T TREN TOXIC?

Trenblone acetate has gotten a bad rap. Some insist that it is kidney toxic. Well it is a very androgenic roid and as such it will certainly be hard on some parts of the body...most notably the prostate and hair line, but there is no eveidence that tren is kidney toxic in humans. If it were so then we would be hearing about all the bro's that ended up in the hospital with acute renal failure. This would especially be noted in the "mid west" since this is the only steroid that many bro's can readily get in the country mid west. So were are are the horror stories??

The tren/kidney myth was stated years ago by the late Dan Duchaine and it still has its followers....funny thing many of these men will not think twice about popping d-bols! HA!

WHAT TO "DO" INSTEAD

Instead of using d-bol to kick start a cycle quickly I suggest that you do loading doses of your longer acting oil based injectables, especially the roids with a very long half life like Nandrolone deconate and Boldenone.

HOW TO FRONT LOAD

I recommend that all oil based steroids and testosterones with half lives of a week or more to be injected twice per week or every 4 days. This will give more even blood levels and often results in better gains. Also, there will be no hormone "spike". Hormones "spikes" can trigger sides in the sensitive.
So if you plan on doing 500 of test per week you would inject 250 every 3-4 days. Now for loading dose reasons you take the amount of hormone that you plan to use for 5 days, which in this case is about 350mg. Then you add the amount of your regular injection, which is 250 in this case. That gives you a loading dose of 600mg on day one. You then start with your regular doses of 250 three days latter.

If you are doing a test/deac stack then front load them both the same could be said for a test/eq stack.

Loading these hormones in this way results in better blood hormone levels sooner. Do not worry about negative consequences form this practise as blood hormone levels DO NOT sky rocket over night as some time is still needed to de-esterfy the hormone.
Loading doses are done all the time in the medical field and with some pretty powerful drugs too and with NO PROBLEMS.

YOU WANT TO START THINGS WITH A BANG

Okay then front load test and include 50-75 mg of tren per day right from the get go and you will see very fast and dramatic results without using 17aa roids.

THE POWER LIFTER
Okay, power lifters may need to use Halo or anavar to help increase power with little weight gain, but there is absolutely no reason for the bodybuilder and especailly the recreational steroid user to use 17aa gear.
Power lifters would be better served by a stack of tren and proviron IMHO.

Hope this helps , especailly the newbie who has been told to use d-dol and test.
Peace
RG






:)
 
Realgains


hey man you have obviously put a lot of thought and research into these posts...

good job very informative

and i agree about those orals man, my liver is stayin healthy
 
Good post, I would like to stop with the 17aa but the results are just fantastic. I gave tren a shot but got real sensative nips 3 weeks in. I used 40mg ed, and 50mg ed winny. I wanna try tren again- what would be a good way to prevent fina gyno?
 
i cut out all 17aa a long time ago for these reasons mainly, but there is no way i will cut out anavar.

at a moderate dosage ( 30-40 mg of btg ) combined with some liver detox ( ala and tyler ) it should not be stressful if you just run short 6 weeks cycles of it. This is what i plan to do for my future cycles. I'm going to stick var and primo, and stay away from the deca/test/fina ect.. for some time.
 
I still believe Oxandrolone is the best AAS. Safe and effective (as long as you go with human grade stuff). Doesnt aromatize, wont mess up your prostate nor turn you bold. As for Dbols, may be an option to kick a cycle with deca and/or test, but not for more than 5 weeks. Anadrol ? nahhhhh not for me lol.
 
Realgains said:
There really is no need for anyone to use 17aa roids, except perhaps for power lifters that do not want to gain much body weight. For the power athlete there may be times for hormones like Halo and anavar.

WAIT A MINUTE you say.....".I got great results from d-bol and anandrol." TRUE, you probably did as these hormones are very powerful steroids, however, there is a health trade off when using these roids and more so than when using non 17aa injectables.

SO WHAT IS SO BAD ABOUT 17 aa ROIDS?

Simply put they are quite hard on the liver and especially the cholesterol profile. HDL will take a huge nose dive in most men when these roids are used in decent enough doses for good gains.
The three most toxic steroid on the planet are #1. Anandrol #2. Halo and #3 D-bol and probably in that order. Anandrol is probably the worst since such a large mg dose is needed in order to see good gains and this means more of the 17aa compound has to be used in order to protect the hormone from the human digestive tract.

WHAT ABOUT ANAVAR...isn't it easy on the liver?
NO IT IS NOT! Taken in doses that are needed for gains it is hard on the liver and cholesterol/hdl profile.

WHAT ABOUT WINNY?

Winstrol is 17aa in both its oral and injectable form.
It has the distinction of being especially hard on the cholesterol /hdl profile. If you insist on taking winny then be sure to inject it as this avoids the "first pass" through the liver. When a steroid is taken orally it is rapidly transported to the liver through the portal vein and all is detoxified at once by this organ. This is stressful to the liver and more so than most men think.
If you inject the winny it takes days for the hormone to make it through the liver and this of course is far more tolerable. So inject the winny bro's or better yet forget about it and use tren....its a way better builder anyway.


WHAT TO "TAKE" INSTEAD

Trenbolone acetate is not 17aa and it is a very powerful steroid. In fact mg per mg nothing is more poweful than tren. It can be used in combination with test for fantastic muscle and strength growth. It is also fantastic in a cutting cycle with either a small dose of test, simply for sex drive reasons, or with 100mg of the non17aa oral proviron. Proviron will not only keep your sex drive alive but it will also bind strongly to plasma binding proteins such as SHBG and this will allow more tren(or any other AAS) to stay in an unbound state, which is exactly what you want for great gains.

WAIT A MINUTE ...ISN'T TREN TOXIC?

Trenblone acetate has gotten a bad rap. Some insist that it is kidney toxic. Well it is a very androgenic roid and as such it will certainly be hard on some parts of the body...most notably the prostate and hair line, but there is no eveidence that tren is kidney toxic in humans. If it were so then we would be hearing about all the bro's that ended up in the hospital with acute renal failure. This would especially be noted in the "mid west" since this is the only steroid that many bro's can readily get in the country mid west. So were are are the horror stories??

The tren/kidney myth was stated years ago by the late Dan Duchaine and it still has its followers....funny thing many of these men will not think twice about popping d-bols! HA!

WHAT TO "DO" INSTEAD

Instead of using d-bol to kick start a cycle quickly I suggest that you do loading doses of your longer acting oil based injectables, especially the roids with a very long half life like Nandrolone deconate and Boldenone.

HOW TO FRONT LOAD

I recommend that all oil based steroids and testosterones with half lives of a week or more to be injected twice per week or every 4 days. This will give more even blood levels and often results in better gains. Also, there will be no hormone "spike". Hormones "spikes" can trigger sides in the sensitive.
So if you plan on doing 500 of test per week you would inject 250 every 3-4 days. Now for loading dose reasons you take the amount of hormone that you plan to use for 5 days, which in this case is about 350mg. Then you add the amount of your regular injection, which is 250 in this case. That gives you a loading dose of 600mg on day one. You then start with your regular doses of 250 three days latter.

If you are doing a test/deac stack then front load them both the same could be said for a test/eq stack.

Loading these hormones in this way results in better blood hormone levels sooner. Do not worry about negative consequences form this practise as blood hormone levels DO NOT sky rocket over night as some time is still needed to de-esterfy the hormone.
Loading doses are done all the time in the medical field and with some pretty powerful drugs too and with NO PROBLEMS.

YOU WANT TO START THINGS WITH A BANG

Okay then front load test and include 50-75 mg of tren per day right from the get go and you will see very fast and dramatic results without using 17aa roids.

THE POWER LIFTER
Okay, power lifters may need to use Halo or anavar to help increase power with little weight gain, but there is absolutely no reason for the bodybuilder and especailly the recreational steroid user to use 17aa gear.
Power lifters would be better served by a stack of tren and proviron IMHO.

Hope this helps , especailly the newbie who has been told to use d-dol and test.
Peace
RG






:)

Good post but the cholesterol level thing is not as bad as you think. I am currently researching cholesterol levels and it's direct link to heart disease. My initial findings have shown that the supposed "link" is weak and due to a lot of subjective reasoning, not to mention unsubstantiated tests and propoganda by the pharmaceutical industry. Once I am finished I will post a lengthy rebutall to all chol level myths and reference it extensively. Also keep in mind that the medical industry and pharm co. make a lot of money selling cholesterol lowering drugs, as a side point the Masai warrirors in Africa who eat a high protien diet and have chol levels in the 300-500 range do NOT suffer from heart disease, this is also prevalent in many primitive cultures, but no explanation as of yet from the medical industry. Also artichoke extract is great for your liver, in the end 17aa may not be as bad as you think. But I will let that dtermination be made after the chol level, post is finished-mkay?:D
 
SO FAR SO GOOD

My 17-AA experience has been quite positive. I've used Tren & Test as well BUT I also use/used a lot of orals over the last 2 years. An example of some my regimes:

Example or orals used in a Cycle - 8 weeks
winny / 50mg per day
Halo / 10-15mg per day
Anadrol / 50-100mg per day

Yeah, sounds rough but it works great. My blood tests have consitently showed a fantastic HDL/LDL ratio. Some of it may just from relatively clean eating, etc.. A friend of mine has had the opposite problem though, on orals and the next blood tests shows a pretty shitty HDL/LDL ratio.

Some of the "toxic" effects may be offset by a good diet and some decent anti-oxidants like ALA. It goes back to the theory I've always had: You can put your body under a lot of stress from chemicals IF you are doing everything else right and taking care of yourself. Just look at all the obese population and the unbelievable amount of health problems they have - far more. And to top it off the average obese person takes far higher doses of liver damaging oral medications then the average steroid user - far higher.
 
Amenselah said:
the old timers used anadrols and Dballs at very high dosage with no problems....


I don't know about that bro.....Dave Johns dies of liver cancer YOUNG....Arnold had more than a valve replacement with his so called aortic valve replacement surgery.....belive me i know as I a cardiac surgeon I work with knows the dude who worked on arnold.....both the mentzer brothers are dead at ages 50 and 48! AND the list goes on.....:(
 
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