Why not an HCG cycle?

[bblazer]

I mentioned this in another thread, but it didn't get much traction, so here goes.

Does an HCG cycle make any sense? HCG is often the first line drug to raise test level in the TRT/HRT patient. From personal experience I know that it raised mine from 205 to 1500 within 3 weeks, and I maintained that level until I went another direction with meds 6 months later. This was from a 1200 IU 2x/week dose.

So this leads me to some obvious questions:

1) Does the test level increase have a ceiling?
a) If so is it dose dependent?

2) Would 8-12 weeks of HCG desensitize the testes too much making recovery too difficult?

3) Am I just way out in left field with this one, and if so, why?

Thanks,
B-

 

[Nelson Montana]

I mentioned this in another thread, but it didn't get much traction, so here goes.

Does an HCG cycle make any sense? HCG is often the first line drug to raise test level in the TRT/HRT patient. From personal experience I know that it raised mine from 205 to 1500 within 3 weeks, and I maintained that level until I went another direction with meds 6 months later. This was from a 1200 IU 2x/week dose.

....................................................
THAT'S QUITE A BIT. PEOPLE WITH LOW LH WOULDN;T NORMALLY GET THAT HIGH. HCG WILL GIVE A BOOST WHICH HELPS WITH RESTARTING THE HPTA BUT THE INCREASE IN T WILL LAST ONLY 5-6 DAYS PER DOSE.

...............................................................................

So this leads me to some obvious questions:

1) Does the test level increase have a ceiling?
a) If so is it dose dependent?

.....................................................

YES AND NO. MORE WON;T DO MORE. ONCE LH IS PUMPED, IT CAN ONLY GO SO HIGH.



.................................

2) Would 8-12 weeks of HCG desensitize the testes too much making recovery too difficult?

........................................................

MOSTLY LIKELY, YES.


..........................................

3) Am I just way out in left field with this one, and if so, why?

..................................

NO. IT'S A LOGICAL QUESTION BASED ON MISINFORMATION YOU READ ON MESSAGE BOARDS. THE SAME GOES FOR CLOMID. IF IT'S SO GREAT AT RAISING T, WHY NOT A CLOMID CYCLE? THE TRUTH IS, THESE COMPOUNDS ARE VERY LIMITED BUT PEOPLE WANT TO THINK THAT AS LONG AS THEY HAVE THEM THEY'RE BULLETPROOF.

Thanks,
B-

..

 

[bblazer]

OK. So what you are saying is more HCG != more test. There is some sort of ceiling involved. But that then does beg the question "Can a person make any gains on what elevation does occur?"

But if the testes are desensitized, I guess that is a moot point.

Thanks again,
B-

 

[jwo02]

Obesity doctor has my dad on 100 IUs/week and he has seen great fat loss.

 

[buftup]

Obesity doctor has my dad on 100 IUs/week and he has seen great fat loss.

Kevin Trudeau's weight loss cure is based around the use of HCG.

 

[pip88]

if you want to raise test why not just take some test?

 

[bblazer]

if you want to raise test why not just take some test?

Agreed.

But (and I am in a gray area saying this on this board), in some instances it may be easier to obtain chemicals for "research" purposes.

Plus, taking test may require you to have to take HCG anyway.

Again, just talking out loud here...

B-

 

[Nelson Montana]

if you want to raise test why not just take some test?

Because it's suppressive. HCG isn't.

BUT...the body builds up a tolerance to anything, and the effects of HCG wear off quickly is used on a long term basis.

 

[bblazer]

How about HCG as a bridge?

B-

 

[Nelson Montana]

How about HCG as a bridge?

B-

Not a bad idea, but you'll never recover fully unless you let your body produce T on its own. I use it as an occasional "bridge" in that I skip a week of HRT when I use it.

 

[wolfman87]

would HMG be a more logical choice for something like this nelson? considering it doesn't raise E much, and works with LH and FSH...

 

[Wulfgar]

HCG is one of the best compounds for bridging. I wouldnt reccommend using 500iu per day for more than 14 days straight however

when I bridge ill run something like

Day 1 250 mg Primo or EQ and 50 mg Prop

Days 7-22 500 IU HCG ED


then just repeat the protocol, but dont repeat it more than 2 times since negative feedback loops will start to occur

 

[Big_Joe]

The concept that HCG desensitizes the leydig cells seems to be a myth. In my research, I am on a different computer so I don't have the article number, I came across information that says that when the leydig celss stop responding to hCG it's because they have used up all the available cholesterol. Cholesterol is what the leydig cells use to make testosterone out of. You can have a ton of cholesterol in the arteries of your heart but it won't do your leydig cells any good. And from what I have read it seems that cholesterol has to difuse across the membranes to get to they leydig cells. There is no active transport for cholesterol. So this takes time for it to go from the blood stream, across the membraine of the capillaries and a few other sturctures until it get close to the leydig cells. Even though there has been speculation from some "experts" that long term use of hCG will cause primary hypogonadism there is no support for this in the literature.

But to the point of the question using a 5000iu vial of hCG, over a few weeks time, is nothing compared to running a cycle of 500mg per week of testosterone.

You know if you are going to cross the line don't go half way. Either go for it or don't.

Luke I'm your father. Come over to the dark side. We party much better and maybe you will get a chance to bang your sister. She's not called lay ya for nothing.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Here is an article that should answer a lot of questions on this -
Proper use of hCG with Anabolic Androgenic Steroids - AAS

hCG as the base of a short cycle really isn’t a bad idea. I’ve actually recommended 250iu 2x a week with 40mg/day Anavar for an individual who wanted the benefits of stacking Anavar with testosterone and wanted to recover as fast as possible.

As long as you don’t over stimulate the leydig cells with too much or too frequent of shots, it can be done without problems

For most men with sensitive leydigs, 250iu 2x a week would be the equivalent of about 250mg/week of testosterone enanthate. (~ 1200ng/dl) I would say the testes could continue producing this much test for around 4-6 weeks.

-Pp

 

[access]

Very cool thread. Some real interesting ideas in here.

Using as you have suggested PP would addition of Derma be any good or do we start to become to suppressive then?

 

[access]

HCG is one of the best compounds for bridging. I wouldnt reccommend using 500iu per day for more than 14 days straight however

when I bridge ill run something like

Day 1 250 mg Primo or EQ and 50 mg Prop

Days 7-22 500 IU HCG ED


then just repeat the protocol, but dont repeat it more than 2 times since negative feedback loops will start to occur

How often have you done this Wulfgar?

Are you now shut down yourself and committed to HRT or do you still recover natty test levels succesfully?

 

[access]

would HMG be a more logical choice for something like this nelson? considering it doesn't raise E much, and works with LH and FSH...

This would seem to make logical sense but at this time I still have some concerns about long term use of HMG and it's effects on HPTA suppression. Not much information out there presently but certainly short term use would be very beneficial.

 

[Chrisco915]

I am currently doing the HCG/HRT thing and I find that it really helps keep things.......um engorged and kicking....LOL. I take 500 ui 2 times a week when needed while running my test and deca. I do take a week or two off the HCG at times and that seems to keep things in line.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Very cool thread. Some real interesting ideas in here.

Using as you have suggested PP would addition of Derma be any good or do we start to become to suppressive then?

Yeah you could use Derma… you could really use anything you want since the hCG will prevent most of the suppressive effects. [for a period of time]

-Pp

 

[aquatic_glories]

bump. this is a great thread.

How about using an AI?? Does that help and make HCG even less supressive in the log run?