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Why do we ALL do this?

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Why do we use Test as our base of every cycle? Very little of it gets used ANYWAYS! Its bound up by SHBG!

Why not use Dbol in replacement of Test? Dbol binds extremely little to SHBG. Which might explain the great gains from it. And the sense of well being. And the horniness! :)
 
jay1 said:
Dont know but Im hating test right now because Im suspecting it to be the cause of my post cycle acne.
Click to expand...

Join the club. My last shot was 8/28, and after PCT I am still dealing with zits.

Carth has an interesting theory. I did both a Dbol only cycle and a Test cycle - more sides, more bloat, and more zits from the Test...but also more size from the test. Well being-wise, and libido-wise better with test, at least for me.

Also as an aside, T-bol would do the same job without the bloat based on your idea.

Personally I am going to continue to use Test as a base, but I will keep the dosage between 325-475mg/week.


Bluesman
 
Great question bro,

I loaded your thread with a little of my own Karma to help you get a better answer faster! You can release it later to the member who's answer you liked best.

This feature called "Karma Awarded Threads" alows you to give members an incentive to help you out!

Platinum Members, when you create a new thread, select the "Additional Option" Award Karma to This Post. You can then upload Karma to your question and when you get an answer that you like, you can award it to the person who provided you with that answer.

Let's say that there's an older thread that you created that you did not get many responses on. Open that thread, and click the link "Thread Tools" and you can retroactively create a Karma Awarded Thread. Click the Thread Tools menu and select the option under the "Platinum Copy" feature.

Enjoy! And good luck to the winner!
 
It is a very good question...although like asian said, i get good results with test as a base...in some cycles its a must due to the fact that the other compounds you might run will mess with your libido...test in this case helps that in the meantime :)
 
Carth said:
Why do we use Test as our base of every cycle? Very little of it gets used ANYWAYS! Its bound up by SHBG!

Why not use Dbol in replacement of Test? Dbol binds extremely little to SHBG. Which might explain the great gains from it. And the sense of well being. And the horniness! :)
Click to expand...


Test is used as the base for many reasons. One of which, very importantly is that test is very important in the human body, not just for muscle growth but for the transport of signals in other tissues as well. When you start taking AAS and supress endogenous test levels, you now have no test if your cycle consists of no test. That in a nutshell is why you should always take test. When peoples mood are out of whack, it's usually cause of test levels being way too low, dont take test with certain cycles, no libido, no dick, get my drift......I'm sure ya do, but the point is there are many other and more important medical reasons within the body, you must have test for that we have not even discussed, so supression of testosterone has many ill effects.
 
jay1 said:
Dont know but Im hating test right now because Im suspecting it to be the cause of my post cycle acne.
Click to expand...

Post cycle, test levels drop, estrogen levels raise, this causes the worst acne you would ever wish upon someone.
 
indy69camaro said:
Test is used as the base for many reasons. One of which, very importantly is that test is very important in the human body, not just for muscle growth but for the transport of signals in other tissues as well. When you start taking AAS and supress endogenous test levels, you now have no test if your cycle consists of no test. That in a nutshell is why you should always take test. When peoples mood are out of whack, it's usually cause of test levels being way too low, dont take test with certain cycles, no libido, no dick, get my drift......I'm sure ya do, but the point is there are many other and more important medical reasons within the body, you must have test for that we have not even discussed, so supression of testosterone has many ill effects.
Click to expand...


I have to agree with Indy....your natural test levels get supressed while on cycle...the test base helps keep things felling more normal like your mood & sex drive ...seems to stop the sides somewhat..
 
because my body already produces testosterone and knows exactly what to do with it. Last I checked, my body wasn't producing equipose. :)
 
indy69camaro said:
Post cycle, test levels drop, estrogen levels raise, this causes the worst acne you would ever wish upon someone.
Click to expand...

Yeah me !!
So are you saying that there is no getting around this ?
My last shot was Aug. 1 and I still have 20 to 30 big red zits on my chest.
 
indy69camaro said:
Test is used as the base for many reasons. One of which, very importantly is that test is very important in the human body, not just for muscle growth but for the transport of signals in other tissues as well. When you start taking AAS and supress endogenous test levels, you now have no test if your cycle consists of no test. That in a nutshell is why you should always take test. When peoples mood are out of whack, it's usually cause of test levels being way too low, dont take test with certain cycles, no libido, no dick, get my drift......I'm sure ya do, but the point is there are many other and more important medical reasons within the body, you must have test for that we have not even discussed, so supression of testosterone has many ill effects.
Click to expand...

I would have to say thats right on target. I also feel that test is versitle. You can run it high and bulk..you can run it low and cut. You can also control the water weight easly by using some simple anti e's.

Using D-bol as a base..well its 17-AA...Using dbol for 8-10-12 weeks of a standard cycle would do some serious harm to your liver. I couldnt imagine running it longer. D-bol for me much like anadrol raises my blood preasure. i just ran 1000mg of test and 600mg of deca with out an elevated BP.
 
indy69camaro said:
Post cycle, test levels drop, estrogen levels raise, this causes the worst acne you would ever wish upon someone.
Click to expand...

Then why the acne? I thought Test/DHT is the cause of acne. Not estrogen. This is why women have such clear skin. NO?
 
indy69camaro said:
Test is used as the base for many reasons. One of which, very importantly is that test is very important in the human body, not just for muscle growth but for the transport of signals in other tissues as well. When you start taking AAS and supress endogenous test levels, you now have no test if your cycle consists of no test. That in a nutshell is why you should always take test. When peoples mood are out of whack, it's usually cause of test levels being way too low, dont take test with certain cycles, no libido, no dick, get my drift......I'm sure ya do, but the point is there are many other and more important medical reasons within the body, you must have test for that we have not even discussed, so supression of testosterone has many ill effects.
Click to expand...


Yea that is what I was thinking also!!! Ok maybe not but something like that! Shit I didn't recognize indy69camaro without the car....
 
asianlover said:
i love test. i have better gains from test than dbol and none of the sides.
Click to expand...

Dbol doesnt bulk me at all i think its a waste of money and liver! Now for strength it rocks..Test keeps my nutts in check...try running dbol with out test see how long your nutts stay big.Tren blows dbol away! :p
 
jay1 said:
Yeah me !!
So are you saying that there is no getting around this ?
My last shot was Aug. 1 and I still have 20 to 30 big red zits on my chest.
Click to expand...

that happens to me everytime. Until I hit the anti-e's and someting for acne, it's messed up, and usually for several months on end. The cheapest way to go, and it REALLY works is to buy some Lindberg Pantothenic Acid 250mg. It's vitamin B6, the lindberg brand is top notch, you can get online for like $7 a bottle or something. Start with large dosages, 5 grams a day, then taper down. This shit cured my acne like accutane does....if this doesn't work, buy the accutane, it WILL work.

I forget where I buy mine, RADAR posted it up for this brand awhile back, vitaminworld or one of those big ones, dont be fooled, brands are not equal when it comes to this stuff.
 
Carth said:
Then why the acne? I thought Test/DHT is the cause of acne. Not estrogen. This is why women have such clear skin. NO?
Click to expand...

The acne comes from the test/estrogen levels being out of whack, or I suppose to say it correctly, out of balance. The balance of those hormones keep acne away. I can usually take 1gram of test with no acne at all. Oily skin yea, that's normal but no acne. Stop taking the test, and the levels are no longer "level" acne starts, add on already rising estrogen levels from arimotasation, and wow, pizza party on your shoulders..........stop beating around the bush Carth, just give me my Karma points, I REALLY cant afford to be without them right now ;)
 
Another option would be to use proviron throughout a cycle. I don't think test as a base is absolutely necessaRy either as most if not all aas will elevate test levels in the body.
 
02gixxersix2 said:
Another option would be to use proviron throughout a cycle. I don't think test as a base is absolutely necessaRy either as most if not all aas will elevate test levels in the body.
Click to expand...

Well not the best option, but for some cycles, absolutely, Proviron is a great androgen, and is prescribed for those that have low test base levels to begin with. When I do Primo Cycles, Proviron is the only androgen I take. But for the record, Proviron is also the best acne seed I have ever planted.
 
indy69camaro said:
The acne comes from the test/estrogen levels being out of whack, or I suppose to say it correctly, out of balance. The balance of those hormones keep acne away. I can usually take 1gram of test with no acne at all. Oily skin yea, that's normal but no acne. Stop taking the test, and the levels are no longer "level" acne starts, add on already rising estrogen levels from arimotasation, and wow, pizza party on your shoulders..........stop beating around the bush Carth, just give me my Karma points, I REALLY cant afford to be without them right now ;)
Click to expand...

Not trying to thread jack, but I am very curious now to Carth's residual question of what causes the acne......this response by indy sounds pretty good. Everybody buy off on this?
 
Carth said:
Then why the acne? I thought Test/DHT is the cause of acne. Not estrogen. This is why women have such clear skin. NO?
Click to expand...

and it's not that test actually causes acne. Test causes the active oil glands, fluctuations in hormones cause a huge overreaaction in oil glands and bacteria forms much quicker. Bacteria ontop of the oil causes acne......it takes several steps to create those pretty little puss bags, but the fluctuations in hormones, start it off.
 
Does anyone remember the amount of natural Test production /per week? I thought I read it somewhere in this forum....
 
indy69camaro said:
and it's not that test actually causes acne. Test causes the active oil glands, fluctuations in hormones cause a huge overreaaction in oil glands and bacteria forms much quicker. Bacteria ontop of the oil causes acne......it takes several steps to create those pretty little puss bags, but the fluctuations in hormones, start it off.
Click to expand...

That sounds even better than the first response, but grosser, with an avatar switch! :whatever:
 
The main reason Dbol won't be a base is b/c you can't use it for very long, it will kill your liver. Besides most of the gains are going to be from water and you'll lose most after you come off.
 
Test is best!

Put a guy on 2g of test vs some guy who's on 1g EQ and 1g primo. The guy on the test will be much bigger!
 
Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) is a glycoprotein synthesized by the liver. Circulating androgen and estrogen concentrations influence SHBG synthesis. The regulation of SHBG synthesis, combined with SHBG's higher affinity for testosterone, impacts bioavailable testosterone levels.

SHBG binds up to 98 percent of the steroid hormones in the blood including 5a-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), testosterone and androstenediol with particularly high affinity, and estradiol and estrone with slightly lower affinity.
Also, levels of SHBG are higher in women than in men, due to the higher ratio of estrogens to androgens in women.
 
This part taken from another bodybuilding site in regards to the use of proviron (mesterolone):
"So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels.

The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor."
 
Carth said:
Then why the acne? I thought Test/DHT is the cause of acne. Not estrogen. This is why women have such clear skin. NO?
Click to expand...

Never, ever had one zit my entire life...and then there was "T". Prior to Jr Nats 2003, I took for the first time ever (and last) to gain the size needed for comp. After this comp (my last show to date) ...everything started to 'leave' my system, periods returned and estrogen levels rose - I had the most awful friggin acne in the strangest places - shoulders, back, chest. It was horrible.

No acne while I was on though - only after my own natural levels of Estrogen returned. I battled with it for at least a year afterward.

I think you are correct that is was the "T" and not the Estrogen, but I'm sure it didn't help matters to mess with my Estrogen levels. Oh - BTW, my hair was stick straight all my life until after I went off AAS, now I have ringlets unless I dry it long and straight. That shit can mess with all of us in weird ways. :)
__________________
Mythicwrld

"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
 
The mechanism by which trenbolone mediates skeletal muscle hypertrophy is diversified and not very well understood. On the one hand trenbolone is a very active agonist of the androgen receptor, as illustrated by its increasing strength and aggression at the level it does. While this is a large contributor there is evidence that it mediates muscle growth by another pathway entirely2,3, namely the increasing of satellite cell sensitivity to an increase in IGF-1 (Insulin-Like growth factor 1) and FGF (Fibroblast growth factor). This would result in a much, much greater nutrient uptake and protein synthesis and explain why trenbolone is so much more potent in building lean muscle than other non-aromatizing, AR-mediated steroids like drostanolone and mesterolone.

It's also a very versatile product that can be used in a lot of different ways. One could easily stack it with testosterone, anadrol or dianabol for mass gains where the actions of trenbolone cause severe strength gains and add some quality to the mass. Since trenbolone was found to be roughly 3 to 4 times as anabolic as most testosterone esters it quite easily boosts strength over short periods of time. It acts well on the androgen receptor with as a result that it can have certain side-effects. Most notably the normal androgenic side-effects such as increased acne and a risk for prostate hypertrophy, definitely increased aggression leading to roid rage in prolonged use of high doses and in some cases an aggravation of an existing hair loss problem.
 
indy69camaro said:
and it's not that test actually causes acne. Test causes the active oil glands, fluctuations in hormones cause a huge overreaaction in oil glands and bacteria forms much quicker. Bacteria ontop of the oil causes acne......it takes several steps to create those pretty little puss bags, but the fluctuations in hormones, start it off.
Click to expand...

Bump for my Karma and a bottle of Clearasil
 
hvywghtchamp said:
:chomp: Da-amn indy.....your karma squares are starting to resemble your primo stash :chomp: I need the k more than you do :(
Click to expand...

That Karma came from donations from good bro's I helped out on EF, most of it, from one good bro actually.
 
the simple answers:

1) in large doses it works like a motherfucker

2) in small doses it keeps test in your system, which is very useful when endogenous levels are suppressed. do we really need to go into detail about the funtion of testosterone in the male body?
 
what about tanning? i would assume that tanning is included in gym memberships like mine is. Would it help at all or is the acne when coming off so bad that it wouldn't matter?
 
indy69camaro said:
Post cycle, test levels drop, estrogen levels raise, this causes the worst acne you would ever wish upon someone.
Click to expand...
i too believe that estrogen is a major factor in acne. i was thinking of taking some anti'e's to combat estrogen and MAYBE try test again some day. but not sure.
carth knows i am no fan of test !! i will stick to the deca/eq for a while since it seems to work well for me.
 
Carth said:
Then why the acne? I thought Test/DHT is the cause of acne. Not estrogen. This is why women have such clear skin. NO?
Click to expand...
i know a lot of women who break out right around the time they are having their period, wonder if there's something to this ?
 
indy69camaro said:
that happens to me everytime. Until I hit the anti-e's and someting for acne, it's messed up, and usually for several months on end. The cheapest way to go, and it REALLY works is to buy some Lindberg Pantothenic Acid 250mg. It's vitamin B6, the lindberg brand is top notch, you can get online for like $7 a bottle or something. Start with large dosages, 5 grams a day, then taper down. This shit cured my acne like accutane does....if this doesn't work, buy the accutane, it WILL work.

I forget where I buy mine, RADAR posted it up for this brand awhile back, vitaminworld or one of those big ones, dont be fooled, brands are not equal when it comes to this stuff.
Click to expand...
pantothenic acid is actually B5 bro... but yeah, it does work if you get it in check early.
 
indy69camaro said:
Well not the best option, but for some cycles, absolutely, Proviron is a great androgen, and is prescribed for those that have low test base levels to begin with. When I do Primo Cycles, Proviron is the only androgen I take. But for the record, Proviron is also the best acne seed I have ever planted.
Click to expand...
again indy is right on the money. proviron makes me break out like nobody's business.
so does primo, which sucks cause primo is a gift from the gods.
 
Little Boy said:
Test is best!

Put a guy on 2g of test vs some guy who's on 1g EQ and 1g primo. The guy on the test will be much bigger!
Click to expand...
but i would rather look like the guy who is on 1g eq and 1g primo. :)
 
indy69camaro said:
that happens to me everytime. Until I hit the anti-e's and someting for acne, it's messed up, and usually for several months on end. The cheapest way to go, and it REALLY works is to buy some Lindberg Pantothenic Acid 250mg. It's vitamin B6, the lindberg brand is top notch, you can get online for like $7 a bottle or something. Start with large dosages, 5 grams a day, then taper down. This shit cured my acne like accutane does....if this doesn't work, buy the accutane, it WILL work.

I forget where I buy mine, RADAR posted it up for this brand awhile back, vitaminworld or one of those big ones, dont be fooled, brands are not equal when it comes to this stuff.
Click to expand...


Thanks Indy

for those interested

NutritionExpress.com


RADAR
 
Last edited:
If I'm you're shutting down your own test production with a drug, you may as well replace it with test. Just a basic answer for starters. :)
 
indy69camaro said:
that happens to me everytime. Until I hit the anti-e's and someting for acne, it's messed up, and usually for several months on end. The cheapest way to go, and it REALLY works is to buy some Lindberg Pantothenic Acid 250mg. It's vitamin B6, the lindberg brand is top notch, you can get online for like $7 a bottle or something. Start with large dosages, 5 grams a day, then taper down. This shit cured my acne like accutane does....if this doesn't work, buy the accutane, it WILL work.

I forget where I buy mine, RADAR posted it up for this brand awhile back, vitaminworld or one of those big ones, dont be fooled, brands are not equal when it comes to this stuff.
Click to expand...

So I start off buy taking 20 pills a day!!
Thats 50,000% daily value..can this be harmful?
Fuck it I'm gonna have to get 10 bottles of this stuff.
K to Indy and Radar if I can
 
But for this B5, somebody that has acne has to keep taking those high doses forever?!
Or is it a high dose for a while and then down to a lower dose?
 
jay1 said:
also does this work for existing acne or just to prevent it ??
Click to expand...


You dont have to take those high of dosages forever, you take the high dosages to hit existing acne, you then taper down to maintain while you are still in pct or whatever it is that is making your breakout. You can then stop taking when body is back to normal.

LVTITAN, thanks for catching my typo bro, I said B6, it's actually B5 and I posted like to the brand I buy from nutritionexpress.
 
Carth said:
Why do we use Test as our base of every cycle? Very little of it gets used ANYWAYS! Its bound up by SHBG!

Why not use Dbol in replacement of Test? Dbol binds extremely little to SHBG. Which might explain the great gains from it. And the sense of well being. And the horniness! :)
Click to expand...


Where's my Karma, I'm running low....
 
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