Why did deads wreck my bench yesterday.....

[Testosterone boy]

Had not done deads in months and I used to do sets with 385........well 1 set anyways.


I worked through a few sets then sat down for bench. I was weak!!!

The deads did not affect my shoulder press however.



confused in denver

 

[Becoming]

seems like you would be tired....

 

[jackangel]

I don't know of anyone who does bench and deads in the same sesson. I certainly wouldn't. And if I did, I would hit bench first, because I think I would be too tired after doing deads. Did you always do them together? Did you go light yesterday? In any case, since it's been so long, perhaps it just took more out of you.

 

[Testosterone boy]

I don't know of anyone who does bench and deads in the same sesson. I certainly wouldn't. And if I did, I would hit bench first, because I think I would be too tired after doing deads. Did you always do them together? Did you go light today? In any case, since it's been so long, perhaps it just took more out of you.

I live in bum fuck Egypt and go to the gym twice a week and do a total body workout. Seems to work fine for me.

I have neither the time, genetics, nor inclination to get really big anyways. I can pull serious ass with the physique that 2x/week gives me and that is my biggest motivator.

 

[The Shadow]

lats are the antagonistic muslce gorup for the pics wigga

 

[WODIN]

LOL!!! Love the serious ass line.

You use your back quite a bit in your bench so next time give yourself a few minutes longer after the deads and see what happens.

 

[tuc biscuit]

lats are the antagonistic muslce gorup for the pics wigga

Ya sure? I always thought that pecs were the antagonist of traps and that lats and delts were paired.

 

[The Shadow]

Ya sure? I always thought that pecs were the antagonist of traps and that lats and delts were paired.

nope - pecs and lats....most train delts and traps antagonistically


when you think of antagonistic muscles - its usually related to the muscles on the fornt of the body and those in back.

quads/hams
bis tris
back/lats
delts/traps(to some degree)
lumbars abs

 

[tuc biscuit]

Do some standing military press and you can tell that lats pair with delts, also do a push-up and you can tell that traps pair with pecs, I gotta go eat now, but will be back to hear your view or anyone else's shortly.

 

[The Shadow]

Do some standing military press and you can tell that lats pair with delts, also do a push-up and you can tell that traps pair with pecs, I gotta go eat now, but will be back to hear your view or anyone else's shortly.

Lats get fatigued because they are a supporting muscle group.

Abs get fatigued when you squat but they sure as hell arent antagonistic to the quads or hams.

 

[onerepmaximum]

I have neither the time, genetics, nor inclination to get really big anyways.

You could get a bowflex and stay at the house.

 

[Testosterone boy]

You could get a bowflex and stay at the house.

Thanks for the heads up...........never would have occurred to me.

 

[tuc biscuit]

Lats get fatigued because they are a supporting muscle group.

Abs get fatigued when you squat but they sure as hell arent antagonistic to the quads or hams.

Not saying they are antagonistic because they get fatigued, isn't the way you tell agonist/antagonist pairs when one muscle shortens and contracts, it's antagonist relaxes and lenghtens?

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Tuc, Corn is right.

 

[c-sharp minor]

Tuc, Corn is right.

yep.


I decided to do some curls at the end of my chest workout the other day and did 125lbs for 10 fairly easily.

Normally, I do bi's after my back workout and struggle to to get 10 with 110 lbs.

Hmmmmmmm......

 

[tuc biscuit]

Tuc, Corn is right.

Shit, well close the thread then if you say so. Seriously I would like to hear a reply from the man, I'm not saying he is wrong and I am right, but I feel that it is a common misconception.

 

[The Shadow]

when one muscle shortens and contracts, it's antagonist relaxes and lenghtens?

Do a lateral raise....the medial delt contracts...the lat is not involved.....

 

[jerkbox]

so, is cornholio The Shadow now?....

 

[The Shadow]

so, is cornholio The Shadow now?....

I was the shaodw - b-4 I was Corn.

WAY before.

 

[The Shadow]

so, is cornholio The Shadow now?....

I was the shaodw - b-4 I was Corn.

WAY before.

 

[tuc biscuit]

Do a lateral raise....the medial delt contracts...the lat is not involved.....

It lenghtens and relaxes imo

 

[The Shadow]

It lenghtens and relaxes imo

so - are you saying that the lats contract and then relax while doing lateral raises???


.....if so then you are either:

1 - Using WAY too much weight

2 - Dont know how to properly isolate your muscle groups





















btw - how can a muscle change its length??


Its origins and insertions do not change

 

[slobberknocker]

Lats help give the initial push off the chest in a bench press.

 

[tuc biscuit]

abduction of the arm lenghtens the lats (also I am using lenghten as a figure of speech, such as when you straighten your arm you lenghten and relax your bicep) and relaxes them, also I am over 300# at 6'3 and use 12-14kg dumbells(25-30 pounds) for laterals so I don't use too much weight.

 

[The Shadow]

ok -one last time.

If the lats are stretched, then by your definition, the delts must be contracted.

Pullovers are the stretch position for the lats......at the bottom, then, you are saying that the delts must be contracted.

Contracted position for the delts is when the upper arms are abducted away from the sides, reaching a position close to or at parallel to the ground.



.....if the lats are stretched, as in a pullover, it is impossible for the upper arms to be in a contracted position for the delts.


agreed?

 

[Tiervexx]

Lats are needed for the bench press but not military.

 

[The Shadow]

Lats are needed for the bench press but not military.

exactly.....lats are an antagoniostic group for chest and a supporting group for standing militaries

 

[tuc biscuit]

The bottom position of a pull-up is a stretch for the lats and is very similkar to the top of a military press, so I would say that the delts are contracted. Also surely the delts are contracted when your arms are earlly up to verical and the lats are stretched. Would you not agree?



Also I detect a bit of pissedness in your tone, I am not questioning your knowledge, but merely trying to have a debate about a subject to do with fitness.

 

[The Shadow]

The bottom position of a pull-up is a stretch for the lats and is very similkar to the top of a military press, so I would say that the delts are contracted. Also surely the delts are contracted when your arms are earlly up to verical and the lats are stretched. Would you not agree?

I dont think that the bottom part of a pull-up is a stretch position.....as the hands are not behind the plane of the head...

you can contract your delts without flexing your lats just as you can contract your lats without flexing your delts......


Go read up on Positions Of Flexion and then look thru When Muscle Meets Magnet....they detail midrange, stretch and cointracted positions and give actual mri chromatograms after certain exercises have been performed.

 

[tuc biscuit]

exactly.....lats are an antagoniostic group for chest and a supporting group for standing militaries

I think we have a different definition of aganist/antagonist in the first place. To me that lats are needed for bench says nothing about their agonist/antagonist relation.

 

[The Shadow]

I think we have a different definition of aganist/antagonist in the first place. To me that lats are needed for bench says nothing about their agonist/antagonist relation.

they are related in that a pumped set of lats directly helps the push on the bench.....same as pumped biceps help french presses etc.

....there is no disagreement about their definition.


One muscle group will contract while its antagonistic group is forced to stretch....that is the definition of antagonism.


.....contracting/stretching the lats has no correlation to contracting/stretching the lats.....

Can you contract your lats while not flexing or stretching your delts??

....if so then they cannot be antagonistic groups.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Ha, went back to the old name -- now we just need that pic of you and your dog back in the avatar and it'll be just like y2k (when I was under my old name)...

 

[Imnotdutch]

btw - how can a muscle change its length??


Its origins and insertions do not change

But the distance between the origins and insertions changes doesnt it?

How would muscle pull if they dont change in length?

 

[tuc biscuit]

Can you contract your lats while not flexing or stretching your delts??

....if so then they cannot be antagonistic groups.

I think we are going round in circles here, but that is a bad analogy to my mind, I can contarct many muscles without stetching their antagonist, calves and tibialis anterior come to mind.

 

[jackangel]

I think cornholio's referring to concentric (shortening) versus eccentric (lengthening) contractions in antagonistic muscle pairs, and not isometric contractions as in the example you just gave.