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Why Arimidex should not be combined with Nolvadex?
- Thread starter big_boy_1
- Start date
black sheep
Banned
I used the Nolva/Clomid/A-Dex PCT this last cycle and recovered in unbelievable fashion.
I did however get acne way worse than my prior Clomid only PCTs. I will run this PCT everytime from now on, and Throw in HCG if I run a cycle longer than 10 weeks.
I did however get acne way worse than my prior Clomid only PCTs. I will run this PCT everytime from now on, and Throw in HCG if I run a cycle longer than 10 weeks.
Güclü_oglan
New member
yea bro arimidex increases your test levels in short-term but once you discontinue the usage of arimidex your testlevels will drop, because arimidex reduces your already low SHBGbigrand said:
also it leads to an accelerated development of atherosclerotic plaques
so i would stick with the serms
So does Arimidex. The feedback restraint of LH and FSH secretion by testosterone requires aromatization.
Aromatase inhibition in the human male reveals a hypothalamic site of estrogen feedback.
Hayes FJ, Seminara SB, Decruz S, Boepple PA, Crowley WF Jr.
Department of Medicine and National Center for Infertility Research, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston 02114, USA. [email protected]
The preponderance of evidence states that, in adult men, estradiol (E2) inhibits LH secretion by decreasing pulse amplitude and responsiveness to GnRH consistent with a pituitary site of action. However, this conclusion is based on studies that employed pharmacologic doses of sex steroids, used nonselective aromatase inhibitors, and/or were performed in normal (NL) men, a model in which endogenous counterregulatory adaptations to physiologic perturbations confound interpretation of the results. In addition, studies in which estrogen antagonists were administered to NL men demonstrated an increase in LH pulse frequency, suggesting a potential additional hypothalamic site of E2 feedback. To reconcile these conflicting data, we used a selective aromatase inhibitor, anastrozole, to examine the impact of E2 suppression on the hypothalamic-pituitary axis in the male. Parallel studies of NL men and men with idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH), whose pituitary-gonadal axis had been normalized with long-term GnRH therapy, were performed to permit precise localization of the site of E2 feedback. In this so-called tandem model, a hypothalamic site of action of sex steroids can thus be inferred whenever there is a difference in the gonadotropin responses of NL and IHH men to alterations in their sex steroid milieu. A selective GnRH antagonist was also used to provide a semiquantitative estimate of endogenous GnRH secretion before and after E2 suppression. Fourteen NL men and seven IHH men were studied. In Exp 1, nine NL and seven IHH men received anastrozole (10 mg/day po x 7 days). Blood samples were drawn daily between 0800 and 1000 h in the NL men and immediately before a GnRH bolus dose in the IHH men. In Exp 2, blood was drawn (every 10 min x 12 h) from nine NL men at baseline and on day 7 of anastrozole. In a subset of five NL men, 5 microg/kg of the Nal-Glu GnRH antagonist was administered on completion of frequent blood sampling, then sampling continued every 20 min for a further 8 h. Anastrozole suppressed E2 equivalently in the NL (136 +/- 10 to 52 +/-2 pmol/L, P < 0.005) and IHH men (118 +/- 23 to 60 +/- 5 pmol/L, P < 0.005). Testosterone levels rose significantly (P < 0.005), with a mean increase of 53 +/- 6% in NL vs. 56 +/- 7% in IHH men. Despite these similar changes in sex steroids, the increase in gonadotropins was greater in NL than in IHH men (100 +/- 9 vs. 58 +/- 6% for LH, P = 0.07; and 85 +/- 6 vs. 41 +/- 4% for FSH, P < 0.002). Frequent sampling studies in the NL men demonstrated that this rise in mean LH levels, after aromatase blockade, reflected an increase in both LH pulse frequency (10.2 +/- 0.9 to 14.0 +/- 1.0 pulses/24 h, P < 0.05) and pulse amplitude (5.7 +/- 0.7 to 8.4 +/- 0.7 IU/L, P < 0.001). Percent LH inhibition after acute GnRH receptor blockade was similar at baseline and after E2 suppression (69.2 +/- 2.4 vs. 70 +/- 1.9%), suggesting that there was no change in the quantity of endogenous GnRH secreted. From these data, we conclude that in the human male, estrogen has dual sites of negative feedback, acting at the hypothalamus to decrease GnRH pulse frequency and at the pituitary to decrease responsiveness to GnRH.
And just to clarify AGAIN, clomid is a SERM, and clomid should be used for PCT and if you can't then use HCG.
Aromatase inhibition in the human male reveals a hypothalamic site of estrogen feedback.
Hayes FJ, Seminara SB, Decruz S, Boepple PA, Crowley WF Jr.
Department of Medicine and National Center for Infertility Research, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston 02114, USA. [email protected]
The preponderance of evidence states that, in adult men, estradiol (E2) inhibits LH secretion by decreasing pulse amplitude and responsiveness to GnRH consistent with a pituitary site of action. However, this conclusion is based on studies that employed pharmacologic doses of sex steroids, used nonselective aromatase inhibitors, and/or were performed in normal (NL) men, a model in which endogenous counterregulatory adaptations to physiologic perturbations confound interpretation of the results. In addition, studies in which estrogen antagonists were administered to NL men demonstrated an increase in LH pulse frequency, suggesting a potential additional hypothalamic site of E2 feedback. To reconcile these conflicting data, we used a selective aromatase inhibitor, anastrozole, to examine the impact of E2 suppression on the hypothalamic-pituitary axis in the male. Parallel studies of NL men and men with idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH), whose pituitary-gonadal axis had been normalized with long-term GnRH therapy, were performed to permit precise localization of the site of E2 feedback. In this so-called tandem model, a hypothalamic site of action of sex steroids can thus be inferred whenever there is a difference in the gonadotropin responses of NL and IHH men to alterations in their sex steroid milieu. A selective GnRH antagonist was also used to provide a semiquantitative estimate of endogenous GnRH secretion before and after E2 suppression. Fourteen NL men and seven IHH men were studied. In Exp 1, nine NL and seven IHH men received anastrozole (10 mg/day po x 7 days). Blood samples were drawn daily between 0800 and 1000 h in the NL men and immediately before a GnRH bolus dose in the IHH men. In Exp 2, blood was drawn (every 10 min x 12 h) from nine NL men at baseline and on day 7 of anastrozole. In a subset of five NL men, 5 microg/kg of the Nal-Glu GnRH antagonist was administered on completion of frequent blood sampling, then sampling continued every 20 min for a further 8 h. Anastrozole suppressed E2 equivalently in the NL (136 +/- 10 to 52 +/-2 pmol/L, P < 0.005) and IHH men (118 +/- 23 to 60 +/- 5 pmol/L, P < 0.005). Testosterone levels rose significantly (P < 0.005), with a mean increase of 53 +/- 6% in NL vs. 56 +/- 7% in IHH men. Despite these similar changes in sex steroids, the increase in gonadotropins was greater in NL than in IHH men (100 +/- 9 vs. 58 +/- 6% for LH, P = 0.07; and 85 +/- 6 vs. 41 +/- 4% for FSH, P < 0.002). Frequent sampling studies in the NL men demonstrated that this rise in mean LH levels, after aromatase blockade, reflected an increase in both LH pulse frequency (10.2 +/- 0.9 to 14.0 +/- 1.0 pulses/24 h, P < 0.05) and pulse amplitude (5.7 +/- 0.7 to 8.4 +/- 0.7 IU/L, P < 0.001). Percent LH inhibition after acute GnRH receptor blockade was similar at baseline and after E2 suppression (69.2 +/- 2.4 vs. 70 +/- 1.9%), suggesting that there was no change in the quantity of endogenous GnRH secreted. From these data, we conclude that in the human male, estrogen has dual sites of negative feedback, acting at the hypothalamus to decrease GnRH pulse frequency and at the pituitary to decrease responsiveness to GnRH.
And just to clarify AGAIN, clomid is a SERM, and clomid should be used for PCT and if you can't then use HCG.
You do need to start with a (selective estrogen receptor modulator) SERM as Ult says though. Post cycle, the boby is void of sex hormone (suppressed test levels and no test = no estro). They work together, SERMS by directly stimulating LH when there is severe hypogonadalism and Adex to speed the process by the mechanism described in the piece Ult generously produced for us here today!
Little Boy
New member
So....what's the best PCT protocol?
Little Boy
New member
krishna said:
It is a serious question.
Lets say the cycle is just straight up test.
JLA
New member
I have read where a physician does not recommend arimidex for PCT, since it is so powerful, it can make estrogen too low, messing up cholesterol profiles. Nolva is supposed to help them, on the other hand - what he recommended.
He did recommend Adex during cycle though when using heavy aromatizing AAS...
He did recommend Adex during cycle though when using heavy aromatizing AAS...
