Why are US executives so mean so often....

[Testosterone boy]

The way that employees have gotten unceremoniously dumped over the past few decades is disconcerting. Every time I turn around, I see another story of years of faith and loyalty rewarded with.....basically.......a firing with no warning.

They seem to be heartless. Look at Enron, the top brass knew what was happening and basically stole money from the employees prior to leaving. Ken Lay had 4 homes in Vail alone.

It would seem that something happens to many people when they make a great deal of money. They will do anything for more money.

 

[WODIN]

In the revolution these people will be the first shot

 

[Y_lifter]

The just updated our policy reducing the notice time from 30 days
to 7 days I think

 

[havoc]

Exactly what Nav said "poor business ethics" coupled with greed, heartlessness and lack of empathy. peace

 

[Testosterone boy]

In the revolution these people will be the first shot

Yep....there are many informed people that see the possible road to revolution in the road ahead. I'd say it is 50/50 right now, we still have a good chance if we can find a truly amazing leader with astounding judgement. OK.....maybe it is 35/65?

 

[Testosterone boy]

It's the american business ethic these days. Fuck over your employees whenever necessary. Do not view them as the staples that created your company...but unnamed "expenses".

It's the reason why certain companies that treat employees well like Microsoft, Walmart, Dell, etc. always do well -- and others are always getting fucked up. Cuz the work ethic, cooperation, spirit, etc. in the company completely sucks.

I've always said the main problem with American businesses is *not* overseas competition --- but American businesses themselves.

-= nav =-

Never heard that Walmart treats its people well?

 

[HG Pennypacker]

So, what you're all suggesting is to wait until a business runs out of cash to pay their employees and everyone is out of a job anyway.

 

[Testosterone boy]

So, what you're all suggesting is to wait until a business runs out of cash to pay their employees and everyone is out of a job anyway.

Only a fool believes that their tactics are of necessity with some exceptions. Explain the massive raises they give themselves after swinging the axe through a few thousand.

 

[HG Pennypacker]

Only a fool believes that their tactics are of necessity with some exceptions. Explain the massive raises they give themselves after swinging the axe through a few thousand.

You read about high profile companies like Enron, etc. giving raises like that. It's nonsense that it's not out of exception. It's simple accounting. Project what you're revenue is going to be. Expenses need to be under that. In most companies, the largest expense is payroll. That's where cuts will occur first. My company has made 3 headcount cuts in the past 18 months. Because my locations are profitable, I only had to let go of a total of 2 people during those reductions.

No executives in my company have taken any large bonuses and as a matter of fact, we've all been under a wage freeze for the past 2 years.

 

[the nature boy]

No executives in my company have taken any large bonuses and as a matter of fact, we've all been under a wage freeze for the past 2 years.

HG Pennypacker, CEO of Chuck E Cheezes.

 

[HG Pennypacker]

HG Pennypacker, CEO of Chuck E Cheezes.

I don't even really work here.

 

[the nature boy]

I don't even really work here.

That's what makes this so difficult

 

[Testosterone boy]

Well I think executives now make 400 times more than they made 20 years ago. I realize the value of effective leadership but 400 times ???? Are they 200 times better than they used to be?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

It's the reason why certain companies that treat employees well like Walmart,

LOL! Walmart was recently named in a *class action* suit for treating employees like shit. Maybe one of the worst in America.

The only posible way you could say American WalMart workers are treated well is if you are comparing them to overseas contractors.

Now if u take those businesses and increase their size by 10,000 times -- the PHILOSOPHY doesn't change! It's still the same. The business management style for 4,000 employeees is exactly the same for 40 employees.

can I go out on a limb and say you are

A. not an owner
B. Don't have either 40 or 4000 people working for you
C. Both A and B

I guess C.

that's one thing i liked about Europe. They're still in the age of "Get a good job, be set for life" philosophy. A philosophy that was in use even here in America for most of this century. Only recently in the Us, the average job started lasting only for 2-4 years. It's also a reason why the Europeans i noticed actually *enjoyed* going to work. Something i was shocked.

I thought it was because many europeans have 8 weeks vacation. In fact, there were massive protests in Germany when workers were denied 13 weeks vacation. 13 weeks!?

This European philosophy is also reinforced by taxes far higher even than ours. It is much harder to build wealth. So "set for life" is OK. It doesn't work here because the salaries at the top are so much higher than at the bottom. Not the casein europe, by and large.

And it also explains why the economies of europe are doping poorly even compared to our realtively stagnant economy. But hey, they like their jobs.



There will be accounting for bad management. It just takes time. If you want security, get a government job.

 

[obscenegesture]

The euro's I work for/with take all of august off. That does not count as their vacation.

They get 4 weeks on top of that

they come in 8-9

they leave 4-5

two 30 minute coffee breaks.

1-2 hour lunch.

But, it is a socialist economy, so everyone is in a union, and no one gets fired without one years severance.

But, the executives there make MUCH less then the American executives, because the tax rate is so fucking high they don't really care.

I am amazed every single day that the company survives.

Everything matt says is true.

 

[flex123]

You want Loyalty? Get your self a cocker spaniel.

not sure if that works for this thread, but I just always wanted to say that quote

 

[Warik]

rofl this is so hypocritical.

US companies are money hungry, so they fire their employees to give themselves pay raises.... that's the story, right?

OK, explain this to me.

Where does this money come from? Profits. Where do profits come from? Employees who produce.

With me so far?

Good.

Now, naturally, an employer would not fire an employee who produces, because he's a money hungry cocksucker who is only interested in money, right?

So who's left to fire?

Gee... maybe the employees who don't produce?

That being the case, why would anyone give a shit when these people got fired?

-Warik

 

[Warik]

Yep.

As an example: Picture a small village. Picture 4 small businesses in little huts. 3 of the businesses treat their employees well, the owner are caring, the customers enjoy the pleasantness of the employees, and profits are good.

Now picture the 4th business. The owner runs it like a sweatshop. Fire and hires people whenever he sees fit. Puts lots of restrictions on them. Doesn't trust his employees one bit.

Now WHICH businesses do you think will keep flourishing, expand and stay in business?

This is a ridiculous comparison. How are the profits of the 4th company? What's the nature of the business? What kind of positions are there in the company? You need to know all these things.

If you have 3 companies selling hammers, each with 1 manager, 1 supervisor, and 5 hammer-makers, then #4 is obviously going to prosper more. Why?

It's simple.

It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to make a hammer. Hammer-makers are cheap labor. If hammer maker #1 is a worthless piece of shit, fire him whenever you want and hire another hammer maker. He's not going to make hammers any more skillfully if you are nice to him and tolerate his screwups.

Now, if hammer maker #2 is the best hammer maker you've seen in your entire life, you're not going to treat him like shit like this little sweatshop boss you speak of will. I'm sorry, but I have never in the history of the universe heard of an employer who treated his best hammer-maker like shit when hammer-making is the name of the game.

Think of a more realistic example and I will give you a more realistic reason why the nicey-nice business will be broke in 5 years.

-Warik

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

rofl this is so hypocritical.

US companies are money hungry, so they fire their employees to give themselves pay raises.... that's the story, right?

OK, explain this to me.

Where does this money come from? Profits. Where do profits come from? Employees who produce.

With me so far?

Good.

Now, naturally, an employer would not fire an employee who produces, because he's a money hungry cocksucker who is only interested in money, right?

So who's left to fire?

Gee... maybe the employees who don't produce?

That being the case, why would anyone give a shit when these people got fired?

-Warik

Ahhh...the perfect world. How easy it wuld be if it worked this way.

 

[Testosterone boy]

This is a ridiculous comparison. How are the profits of the 4th company? What's the nature of the business? What kind of positions are there in the company? You need to know all these things.

If you have 3 companies selling hammers, each with 1 manager, 1 supervisor, and 5 hammer-makers, then #4 is obviously going to prosper more. Why?

It's simple.

It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to make a hammer. Hammer-makers are cheap labor. If hammer maker #1 is a worthless piece of shit, fire him whenever you want and hire another hammer maker. He's not going to make hammers any more skillfully if you are nice to him and tolerate his screwups.

Now, if hammer maker #2 is the best hammer maker you've seen in your entire life, you're not going to treat him like shit like this little sweatshop boss you speak of will. I'm sorry, but I have never in the history of the universe heard of an employer who treated his best hammer-maker like shit when hammer-making is the name of the game.

Think of a more realistic example and I will give you a more realistic reason why the nicey-nice business will be broke in 5 years.

-Warik

I am just amazed that a college student will lecture us on how to run a business. A large percentage of firings are unfair, some of the finest workers get fired. Same with lay offs which amounts to a firing for all purposes.

Whether or not the boss likes you will affect your longevity about 5 times more than your productivity. I once got a very fast promotion partly because I worked very hard at holding myself back. The boss seen me constantly shooting the shit with various co workers and still getting the job done so she decided I was "popular."

Actually I had learned a painful lesson that the most productive worker ALWAYS gets ganged up on.

Its all about rubbing penises man.

 

[rsnoble]

Because they can. And as long as they can, they will. End of story. We need to develope some sort of extreme group in which those fucked draw straws and the looser kisses his family fare well and shoots the CEO in his fucking head. I am dead fucking serious. In case you havent noticed, only extreme measures get results anymore. Id say that would be pretty fucking extreme, and very gratifying! It's only going to get worse before it gets better im afraid. I lost my good job recently to some Suckass piece of shit thats dumber than fuck and has smoke pouring out his fucking ears trying to add 13+14 because I was up for promotion and he offered to take the promotion without additional pay-even though I was more qualified and of course the cheap ass owner was all over that. Then work got slow and you cant lay off the top man so here I fucking sit while some retard has what should be my fucking job because he sucks cock. I want to kill that motherfucker. And for those of you that think Im perhaps a little off the deep end, just wait till it happens to you. You'll get real bitter real fast. DEATH TO ALL ASSHOLES!

 

[spongebob]

rofl this is so hypocritical.

US companies are money hungry, so they fire their employees to give themselves pay raises.... that's the story, right?

OK, explain this to me.

Where does this money come from? Profits. Where do profits come from? Employees who produce.

With me so far?

Good.



-Warik

warik you have oversimplified it to the extreme. money does not always come from profits. and pay raise's do not always come from profits.

ex. company buys a facility for a good price. company also takes high loans out to buy more facilities. before you know it company has multiple facilities and high debt.

with me so far.

now company starts to extract monies out of working capital buy using such techniques as bonus's and profit sharing. also company executives use a technique to falsy inflate stock prices and then sells stock for profits.

and then the kicker is company files ch11 and gets retention bonus's. and all this while company has not made one dime in profits. i have just experienced this at my company and yes they were laying people off at the same time.

companies have many many laws working to thier advantage!

 

[Spanky11]

Supernav, 2 questions for you: Have you been recently fired by a large company to make you think this way? As always, you seem to be spreading your "limitless knowledge" on this topic.

And two, do you even work out?

 

[HG Pennypacker]

With the exception of Matt, have any of you actually worked in the business world? There are not corrupt execs in every company. The puny accountant who works 50 hours a week was me 7 years ago. I decided to work 60-70 hours a week and now i'm the first VP in my company who did not have a sales background.

Shareholders invest in a public company because they think the stock will appreciate in price. If a company kept every dog worker, just out of loyalty, there would be class action lawsuits and revolts in the boardroom. Now, granted, there are good people who get laid off because a company needs to downsize, but that's part of business.

I don't like to see anyone out of work, but much of what is in this thread is very simplistic and unrealistic.

 

[Mandinka2]

I thought it was because many europeans have 8 weeks vacation. In fact, there were massive protests in Germany when workers were denied 13 weeks vacation. 13 weeks!?
.

Actually it's 6 weeks in Germany Matt , I should know I'm here , four in Ireland and the U.K. and 7 in France (but they work mad hours there). Most people here get in at 9 and finish around 7-8 at night , except for Fridays.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Actually it's 6 weeks in Germany Matt , I should know I'm here , four in Ireland and the U.K. and 7 in France (but they work mad hours there). Most people here get in at 9 and finish around 7-8 at night , except for Fridays.

Thanks for theinfo.

Those numbers are still way higher than US corporations typicaly allow. Maybe they are doing it right over there??

 

[HG Pennypacker]

Even 6 is a bonanza. I get three and normally end up taking 1-2 weeks every year and since we're capped at 120 hours, I usually lose at least a week every year. My goal, starting in 2004, is to use up every minute of vacation time I get.

 

[WODIN]

I decided to work 60-70 hours a week....

I did this till I got to a manger and said fuck it. LOL!!!

 

[the nature boy]

Even 6 is a bonanza. I get three and normally end up taking 1-2 weeks every year and since we're capped at 120 hours, I usually lose at least a week every year. My goal, starting in 2004, is to use up every minute of vacation time I get.

LOOK OUT HERSHEY PENNSYLVANIA!!!! Here comes the pennypackers!!!

 

[Mandinka2]

Thanks for theinfo.

Those numbers are still way higher than US corporations typicaly allow. Maybe they are doing it right over there??

No problem man , but personally I think 6 is a little high , I mean I even come into work when I'm sick here! The bosses are really flexible guys who ya can go out with for a drink and it's really great atmosphere , but sometimes when a really important guy is out for a whole month , half of a department can come to a standstill. Ireland and England are very much in the rat-race mode and it wore me out big-time , I honestly work harder and more over here...strange!

 

[HG Pennypacker]

LOOK OUT HERSHEY PENNSYLVANIA!!!! Here comes the pennypackers!!!

Macho Pichu

 

[Spanky11]

I'm 155lbs. I probalby need to eat more than work out actually.

-= nav =-

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Heres a tip : less time shooting your mouth off about things you don't know, and more time with a fork in it.

 

[the nature boy]

ha ha.

 

[Testosterone boy]

With the exception of Matt, have any of you actually worked in the business world?


I don't like to see anyone out of work, but much of what is in this thread is very simplistic and unrealistic.

Thats a fucking arrogant statement if I ever saw one. No surprise though since you are a "bigshot VP."


I suppose we all work in the seaworld and formed our opinions from dolphin interaction?


"Have any of you actually worked in the business world."

With your mental competence you would have about a 1% chance of survival if you had to rely on your own judgement by starting your own business. BTW....I started the first one 10 years ago and the second one 6 years ago so I guess I do work in your "business world."

 

[HG Pennypacker]

Thats a fucking arrogant statement if I ever saw one. No surprise though since you are a "bigshot VP."


I suppose we all work in the seaworld and formed our opinions from dolphin interaction?


"Have any of you actually worked in the business world."

With your mental competence you would have about a 1% chance of survival if you had to rely on your own judgement by starting your own business. BTW....I started the first one 10 years ago and the second one 6 years ago so I guess I do work in your "business world."

Never said I was a bigshot VP, photo boy. My point was that I worked my way up by working my ass off and not making bullshit excuses about "greedy exces" holding me back. What a bunch of crap.

You know nothing about me, so lashing out at my "mental competence" just shows that you really can't put together a cogent argument. No one ever mentioned anything about starting a business in this thread, so I don't see how that's relevant. I run two businesses for my company. In this economy, i'm glad I don't own a business. My compensation is structured as a profit share, so I get paid based upon performance.

If you worked in the "Business World" you know about profit vs. loss. If you owned a company whose revenue was cut by 40% due to the economy, would you maintain the same size staff or would you downsize?

 

[Testosterone boy]

Never said I was a bigshot VP, photo boy. My point was that I worked my way up by working my ass off and not making bullshit excuses about "greedy exces" holding me back. What a bunch of crap.

You know nothing about me, so lashing out at my "mental competence" just shows that you really can't put together a cogent argument. No one ever mentioned anything about starting a business in this thread, so I don't see how that's relevant. I run two businesses for my company. In this economy, i'm glad I don't own a business. My compensation is structured as a profit share, so I get paid based upon performance.

If you worked in the "Business World" you know about profit vs. loss. If you owned a company whose revenue was cut by 40% due to the economy, would you maintain the same size staff or would you downsize?

Decent response but the thread is about mean executives, not why any of us were being held back like you read into it.

Of course many down sizings occur for practical reasons but reputations are built and endure because of reality. People do not develop hard feelings for no reason at all.

 

[HG Pennypacker]

Decent response but the thread is about mean executives, not why any of us were being held back like you read into it.

Of course many down sizings occur for practical reasons but reputations are built and endure because of reality. People do not develop hard feelings for no reason at all.

Someone mentioned "poor accounting people making 50 hours per week". My point was that I was one of those accounting people at one time. It took me 5 jobs to find a company that treated me well and provided a career path. The reason the career path was there is because I identified what I wanted to do and made changes to my skill sets to get there. I have no sales experience but I have a position that my company has only put good salespeople in.

 

[beastboy]

[B

Fact is, in today's economy working your ass off does NOT guarantee solid employment. Those days are gone. If u want to succeed in todays' business world -- you NEED to be in a REVENUE-GENERATING position. Otherwise, there's no guarantee from anyone.

Hell, Connie Chung just got fired again. hehe.

-= nav =- [/B]

Where do you work? And what is yout experience? I thought you were the one talking about selling ALA out of the trunk of your car.

How do you suppose people get to the REVENUE-GENERATING position? Hmmm....maybe working their asses off? I think that would be a good start.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Someone mentioned "poor accounting people making 50 hours per week". My point was that I was one of those accounting people at one time. It took me 5 jobs to find a company that treated me well and provided a career path. The reason the career path was there is because I identified what I wanted to do and made changes to my skill sets to get there. I have no sales experience but I have a position that my company has only put good salespeople in.

Thank you......and the reason that most companies treat their employees poorly? Gee.......could it be management and executives?



I am absolutely furious with what has happened to this country. I am old enough to have seen a lot of it and will continue to point out our failings.

 

[HG Pennypacker]

Thank you......and the reason that most companies treat their employees poorly? Gee.......could it be management and executives?



I am absolutely furious with what has happened to this country. I am old enough to have seen a lot of it and will continue to point out our failings.

You're generalizing. Not all management teams treat their employees poorly. Not all companies treat their employees poorly. I've spent the better part of the past 6 months fighting for my employees with my superiors. If I treated my employees like shit, most likely, my business would not be profitable. Why would you want to work somewhere that treats you like shit anyway?

It has nothing to do with being in management. It has to do with the individual personalities of the managers. If they are assholes, chances are they treat their employees like shit. I happen to be an exception to that.

 

[the nature boy]

you guys are a bunch of uppity assholes.

would you like some fries with that?

 

[spongebob]

There are not corrupt execs in every company.

no one ever said there is.

 

[spongebob]

Never said I was a bigshot VP, photo boy. My point was that I worked my way up by working my ass off and not making bullshit excuses about "greedy exces" holding me back. What a bunch of crap.

noone is saying anything about climbing the corporate ladder. or that executives are "holding" me back. that is not the subject of the thread.