i know i will be flamed for this but who cares all the andros are hormones and most have anabolic activity on there own the reason before conversion why they dont "work" because they arent orally active and the little amoutn that does get by aromatizes quickly because its not allot of hormoen your getting and the body can aromatize that little amoutn without u gettign gains , same thing with dbol if you woudl take the 17aa (i know it would change the substance but you get the pont) it woudl probably be just as effective as andro . 1-ad is orally active