Which Type Are You?

[Nelson Montana]

I've had a lot of people comment on the diet sections in my books lately. Some say it was like a breath of freash air while others say...um, where's the diet info?

The thing is this: some people can't accept something simple. They need detailed information, which is fine. But when it comes to getting the basics to eating well, and which foods are high protein, etc, you'd have to be a mongoloid not to be able to get that information in a million places for free. Still, some people want somebody to hold their hand through it. But to me, that's a little insulting. I like to go on the predicate that most bodybuilders are a little smarter than the average bear.

Case in point: When I was breaking into this business about 15 years ago, I went for a job at a gym that offered "computerized dieting." It turned out it would be my job to convince people to buy this computerized program.

Long story short: All it did was take basic information from the person and file it. A filing cabinet would have worked just as well. The custmers trainer would adjust the calorie intake based on the persons height and weight and type it into the computer.

So I asked the guy, "why do you do this?" It's obvious you don't even need the computer. It can be done with a calculator. Or a pen and paper. He gave me a coy smirk and said , "People like to see the blinking lights."

Man, he was so right.

Would you believe he had a book of testimonials about how great this computer plan worked? And why? BECAUSE ANYTHING WILL WORK AS LONG AS YOU BURN MORE CALORIES THAN YOU TAKE IN. End of story.

Today the same things exist. There are "diet gurus" who promise the world, and offer "personalized diet plans" that aren't personalized at all. But people want to think they are -- and they will, as long as they fill out a form with a bunch of personal information. But they'll still get the same cookie cutter program. And in the end, the result always the same. Anyway you slice it, you have to burn more calories than you take in. I can hold your hand while you do it, or you can stand on your own two feet. What'll it be?

Well, as it turned out, I didn't take that job and honestly, at the time, I needed it. But I can't bullshit people like that. I'd rather help them to think for themselves.

But some people would rather not.

 

[Little Rage]

BECAUSE ANYTHING WILL WORK AS LONG AS YOU BURN MORE CALORIES THAN YOU TAKE IN.

this needs to be restated over and over again for people to realize.

 

[IHateCrunches]

Im glad to hear you didnt take the job for that particular reason.. but can i aks you something? How is pushing a product for another company now (which may not be your entire job) any different. I understand you dont push each product and simply just let everyone know. But it IS STILL a form of advertising and you do have a biased part in it dont you? Dont get me wrong i have read many of your posts and feel most are pretty much very informative and i even kept a few in Microsfot Word. But wouldnt you say you have a small percentage whether or not the product is good? Not all their products can be the best.

 

[P-DOG]

why is it ok to spend money for steroid information but not for diet information? i dont understand.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Im glad to hear you didnt take the job for that particular reason.. but can i aks you something? How is pushing a product for another company now (which may not be your entire job) any different. I understand you dont push each product and simply just let everyone know. But it IS STILL a form of advertising and you do have a biased part in it dont you? Dont get me wrong i have read many of your posts and feel most are pretty much very informative and i even kept a few in Microsfot Word. But wouldnt you say you have a small percentage whether or not the product is good? Not all their products can be the best.

I don't gettcha. How is telling people about something that you believe in the same as selling something you don't?


If you're referring to PF, they were the only company I endorsed in my book because I think the idea of bying protein wholesale makes a lot of sense and helps a lot of people. I didn't receive a dime for that.

The only other products I recommend are two which I helped develop and one which I inadvertantly had a hand in (ZIP!) since it's based on suggestions about thyroid output in Bottom Line Bodybuilding. That was written long before there was any mention of a product line and I suggested people use the ingredients. Again, never got a dime from that. So, I don't see what one thing has to do with the other.

 

[variation]

Good post, well written.

 

[DepressiveJuice]

why is it ok to spend money for steroid information but not for diet information? i dont understand.

its not. you'll get better knowledge off boards like this without spending any money (aside from the ISP bill)

 

[DepressiveJuice]

Today the same things exist. There are "diet gurus" who promise the world, and offer "personalized diet plans" that aren't personalized at all. But people want to think they are -- and they will, as long as they fill out a form with a bunch of personal information. But they'll still get the same cookie cutter program.

whats wrong with paying $300 for a not so personalized diet???

and no cracks about brown rice

 

[P-DOG]

you can also get free steroid info from these boards.

 

[Nelson Montana]

There's a big difference.

Nutritional advise is available anywhere.

Steroid use for bodybuilding purposes is a very select genre.

There are 3 macronutrients.

There are dozens of drugs and hundreds of ways to use them.

The use of drugs carry certain risks not the least being that they're illegal.

I never heard of anyone supressing their HPTA because they didn't time their post workout shake just right.

There's a big difference.

 

[variation]

I never heard of anyone supressing their HPTA because they didn't time their post workout shake just right.

There's a big difference.

LOL

good points, not to mention that Nelsons book is nowhere near the rediculous price of 200-300 dollars, reading and applying learned concepts is a much better approach then being baby fed IMO.

 

[BigAndy69]

You are simplifying dieting way too much, Nelson. It may be easy for you, but some people have a very hard time including myself. I did what you said at first, I ate less. I counted all my calories(even the calories in vitamin C tabs!), but I didn't fair so well.

Once I began to understand the hormonal impact on fat loss, I started seeing results and for the first time in my life I was lean. You're not considering how food effects different hormones, Insulin Levels, estrogen fat deposits, T4/T3 conversion...

Also, the success of a diet depends quite largely on how much you stick to your diet. It's not easy for most endo's who are use to eating a good amount of food. Preparation is the key, large breakfast, preparing meals in advance(especially if you live with ppl who keep junk food in the kitchen).

 

[Nelson Montana]

You are simplifying dieting way too much, Nelson. It may be easy for you, but some people have a very hard time including myself. I did what you said at first, I ate less. I counted all my calories(even the calories in vitamin C tabs!), but I didn't fair so well.

Once I began to understand the hormonal impact on fat loss, I started seeing results and for the first time in my life I was lean. You're not considering how food effects different hormones, Insulin Levels, estrogen fat deposits, T4/T3 conversion...

Also, the success of a diet depends quite largely on how much you stick to your diet. It's not easy for most endo's who are use to eating a good amount of food. Preparation is the key, large breakfast, preparing meals in advance(especially if you live with ppl who keep junk food in the kitchen).

Well, I never claimed it was easy. And the "not sticking to it" part goes back to what I was saying. That's not lack of knowledge. It's lack of effort.

Andy: I'm curious to here what you did that made all the difference. What didn't you know that you know now? How did timing our nutrients change hormonal levels. You know, stuff like that.

 

[P-DOG]

i agree 100% that good steroid advice is not easy to get your hands on simply because aas are illegal so the literature out there is limited. however to simplify bodybuilding nutrition by statements such as these "There are 3 macronutrients" is in my opinion one of the biggest problems in bodybuilding in the first place.

way to many people rely on steroid use to make up for a bad diet. how many people do you know that are using large amounts of aas i.e. over a gram per week and making nearly zero progress? i know i do. why? because they have no idea how to eat properly.

admitidley diet is by no means rocket science but it does take a lot of research and experimentation for most people to get it dialed in properly.

personally i love to do the research and experimentation that comes with trying to increase lbm and decrease fat mass through diet. others might not be so inclined to do so and therefore a personaloized plan written by someone else with experience would be a good choice.

all the aas knowledge in the world will not help an individual if he doesnt first know how to eat and train properly.

 

[AustinTX]

.. you'd have to be a mongoloid not to be able to get that information in a million places for free...

Nelson, Nelson, Nelson..... This type of writing should be beneath you. I am quite disappointed in your off-handed use of a racial/disabled slur.

 

[DepressiveJuice]

Re: Re: Which Type Are You?

Nelson, Nelson, Nelson..... This type of writing should be beneath you. I am quite disappointed in your off-handed use of a racial/disabled slur.

have to agree here. in the future, lets not use the word "mongoloid". most of these bone heads dont even know what it means. let use the word "retarded" instead, k?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

You are simplifying dieting way too much, Nelson. It may be easy for you, but some people have a very hard time including myself. I did what you said at first, I ate less. I counted all my calories(even the calories in vitamin C tabs!), but I didn't fair so well.

Once I began to understand the hormonal impact on fat loss, I started seeing results and for the first time in my life I was lean. You're not considering how food effects different hormones, Insulin Levels, estrogen fat deposits, T4/T3 conversion...

Also, the success of a diet depends quite largely on how much you stick to your diet. It's not easy for most endo's who are use to eating a good amount of food. Preparation is the key, large breakfast, preparing meals in advance(especially if you live with ppl who keep junk food in the kitchen).

Agreed, insulin levels, blood glucose levels, t4/t3 conversion, and a number of other hormone levels affected by one's diet are just as important as caloric intake for gaining or losing bodyfat. Granted I would have to agree that alot of these custom diet plans are rather rediculous, because anyone with a reasonable intellect can do their own research, and experiment with their body enough to come up with their own, at least for bodybuilding purposes, however it does not change the fact that the above mentioned factors are extremely important. This is one area where I totally disagree with Nelson, although I see alot of truth in some of his other statements and in things he has written.

 

[BigAndy69]

Well, I never claimed it was easy. And the "not sticking to it" part goes back to what I was saying. That's not lack of knowledge. It's lack of effort.

Andy: I'm curious to here what you did that made all the difference. What didn't you know that you know now? How did timing our nutrients change hormonal levels. You know, stuff like that.

I have all my diets written down on paper to keep track of things.

I was eating 200g of carbs and 200-220g of protein, 30g of fat. That's about 1900 cal. For a 220lbs who trains twice a day (at the time) that wasn't much.

Most of my carbs were ingested post training, 100g. I realised that I was losing quite a bit of muscle and my lifts were going to shit.

So I restructured a few things, I had a large breakfast, carbs before my workout and only 50g of carbs post training. Most of my carbs were ingested before training (to keep energy levels up. As a result, my lifts started going up again.

My carb intake was 180g on training days, and about 120g on non training days. Protein was upped to 250g. I analysed my mother's diet, she eats just about the same thing everyday. I realised that she eats about 45g of fat a day and she is rail thin, about 105lbs. Most of the fat if not all of it was from olive oil.

So I started putting olive oil on my tuna, and upped the fat to 55g

I started out at

200g of carbs, 220g of protein, 30g of fat: 1900cal, wasn't losing much fat

to

TD: 180g of carbs, 250g of protein, 55g of fat: 2200cal
NTD: 120g of carbs, 250g of protein, 55g of fat: 2000 cal

Average daily intake of 2100 cal.

I upped my calories by only 200 and it made a word of difference, I was lean for the first time in my life. I was able to train harder because of the way I restructured things and it helped me lose fat. Also, I realised how carb sensitive I was.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Andy, I've very carb sensitive. I was over 30% bf when I first started training, however for my first contest I got to 4% bf, and didn't go under 3000 cals a day on a keto diet until the last 2 weeks. However, I've tried dieting on much lower calories, and actually gained bodyfat on a diet that was roughly 60% carb calories, while doing cardio daily. For me carb cycling year round is the only way to keep my bodyfat in check, and allows me to eat very large amount of calories, and yet keep my bodyfat at a reasonable level, and gains lbm at an acceptable rate. Whenever I go on a moderate carb diet, even on lower calories, I always start gaining bodyfat, my skin folds get larger, and my waistline begins to expand. There seems to be alot of us out here with this problem. It's rather common among fatboys-turned-bodybuilder.

 

[BigAndy69]

Andy, I've very carb sensitive. I was over 30% bf when I first started training, however for my first contest I got to 4% bf, and didn't go under 3000 cals a day on a keto diet until the last 2 weeks. However, I've tried dieting on much lower calories, and actually gained bodyfat on a diet that was roughly 60% carb calories, while doing cardio daily. For me carb cycling year round is the only way to keep my bodyfat in check, and allows me to eat very large amount of calories, and yet keep my bodyfat at a reasonable level, and gains lbm at an acceptable rate. Whenever I go on a moderate carb diet, even on lower calories, I always start gaining bodyfat, my skin folds get larger, and my waistline begins to expand. There seems to be alot of us out here with this problem. It's rather common among fatboys-turned-bodybuilder.

I realised that my body looked good, looked like 10% BF, yet my midsection looked like 18% BF. Little fat on my legs, glutes, yet I had the belly of a 40 year old alcoholic overeater.

Carb cycling(aka rotation), don't confuse the masses now. That's a more advanced technique and definetely not for beginners, althought it works GREAT once you reach 12% BF (if you can handle the mood swings)

I started training at about 17% BF, 176 lbs at 5'8-9 when I was 16-17. I quickly got up to 183lbs. Then I started reading Flex(great for beginner training info) and noticed how all the guys ate tuna (hardcore gym) Anyway, I'm getting away from the point...

Anyway, I couldn't imagine losing fat without cardio, in fact I tried it and the fat loss came to a complete stop. I was doing high volume, 1min rst between sets and the end result was a loss of muscle.

BodyByFinaplix, I highly recommend yohimbine HCL, even taken orally. It worked great for me.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Yeah, I like yohimbe HCL. 20-30 mg before doing cardio seems to work well for me on a cutting cycle.

 

[The_Eviscerator]

It goes back to this: You get what you pay for. If you don't want to pay, don't pay. The capitalist market will sort it out.

Yes, losing "weight" is simple. Losing fat and preserving muscle is another matter. Careful macronutritional timing is the key.

So many people use a boatload of gear when dieting, because they need it to cover up their mistakes. I would rather not... and avoid the mistakes.

 

[easy]

So many people use a boatload of gear when dieting, because they need it to cover up their mistakes. I would rather not... and avoid the mistakes.

True..

 

[brotheriron]

I think that's something nelson often misses on his diet points. Its not just calorie intake and expenditure.

Sure, you can lose weight eating less calories than you use, that is obvious. But losing fat is a whole new nightmare.

Nelson, go eat 1000 cals of sugar everyday and nothing else. You'll lose weight. See if you look better or worse

Bro

 

[Nelson Montana]

I think that's something nelson often misses on his diet points. Its not just calorie intake and expenditure.

Sure, you can lose weight eating less calories than you use, that is obvious. But losing fat is a whole new nightmare.

Nelson, go eat 1000 cals of sugar everyday and nothing else. You'll lose weight. See if you look better or worse

Bro

That's the extreme example I hear often. But who eats 100o calories a day of just sugar? And if you do, why are you bothering working out? But you know what? Some people would still lose weight.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy the belief that once all the protein needs are met, that by lowering carbs 20 grams or raising fat 10 grams is what makes all the difference. Don't buy it.

 

[brotheriron]

The point is that the media conveys carbs as being a healthy diet to lose weight and its bullshit.

People who dont know much about bodybuilding will go eat pasta and rice all day to lose weight. It just doesnt work like that for a 250lbs guy. Yeah i could eat 2500 cals of pasta and rice a day and i'd lose weight, but not just fat, with it would go alot of my hard earned muscle.

The point about the 10g fat or 20g carbs does make a difference. 20g carbs could stop fat loss alot more than 10g of fat would. Same calories, different function.

Maybe some experience in this field would change your opinion

Bro

 

[BigAndy69]

Absolutely true.

 

[The_Eviscerator]

The point is that the media conveys carbs as being a healthy diet to lose weight and its bullshit.

People who dont know much about bodybuilding will go eat pasta and rice all day to lose weight. It just doesnt work like that for a 250lbs guy. Yeah i could eat 2500 cals of pasta and rice a day and i'd lose weight, but not just fat, with it would go alot of my hard earned muscle.

The point about the 10g fat or 20g carbs does make a difference. 20g carbs could stop fat loss alot more than 10g of fat would. Same calories, different function.

Maybe some experience in this field would change your opinion

Bro

The slightest manipulation can cause a world of difference. I never believed it until I saw it on my own physique.