i usually dont pipe in on heated discussions such as this, but i think stringfellow gets the point. since there are so many different kinds of prohormones available (and i would never use any of them) and there are SO many different kinds of steroids being produced, it is feasible to compare "the best" prohormone to "the weakest" steroid, whereas you MAY find that the PH is a little bit better. of course there are complete garbage 'roids out there on the market. but obviously, overall, prohormones are a waste of money compared to steroids. i was going to write a little more but i believe this thread should die. by the way string, giving someone red karma for no reason isnt too cool, and its no way to make friends around here. on further note, this is one of the BEST boards on the entire internet for learning about juice, and everything that goes along with it. i learned about 95% of what i know about lifting/dieting/juicing/and anything else gym and health related just from researching the endless archives of information here on elite. there are also many sensible and wise members here to learn from. ask any question you please, but make sure you dont offend. i may only have a dozen posts to my credit, but i do not post unless i feel i have something worthwhile to share or ask. perhaps that is why i dont get flamed.