Which day to Squat Dead and SLDL

[gonelifting]

How can I incorporate these excercises in a 2 day split? I`m doing this workout #1 monday
#2 wednesday
#1 friday

#2 monday etc...

I was doing them once a week but wanna do more frequent.

Deadlift
SLDL
Squat
These three I`m having trouble with WHERE to put them. (and I want to do ALL of them)I`m now doing WO #1 Squat , SLDL, Shrugs DB shoulder press, Curls CGBP.

WO #2 Incline DB BP, Supported DB row, Pullups, Deadlifts.

Any suggestions? should I just go back to once a week? I`m going for hypertrophy, and would`nt mind some strength increse on the way.

 

[Jordaz]

BUMP FOR YA

 

[casualbb]

It sounds blasphemous, but I'd drop the deadlifts and put SLDL in their place. My reasoning being that a deadlift is like a cross between a squat and a stiff-legged deadlift, so there's no need for it.

Now when you're done gaining and want to go for strength you can go back to the deadlifting. You probably won't lose any strength on them and may even gain.

 

[overhead]

Not sure if this will work for you or not, but this is how I do them

Workout 1: Workout2:
Bicep Chest
Forearm Shoulder
Calves Tricep
*SLDL Back width
*Squat *Deadlift

 

[overhead]

spacing got messed up, let me try again

workout 1: Bicep, Forearm, Calves, *SLDL, *SQUAT

workout 2: Chest, Shoulder, Tricep, Back width, *DEADLIFT

 

[Tagio]

casual, my limited experience bears you out. I only do sumo deads about once a month when I max out. usually I only do them SLDL style and I also squat a lot. But I gain faster on my sumo DL then any other exercise (it uses my strongest muscles but has a shorter ROM than my squat or SLDL).

 

[SofaGeorge]

I definitely would NOT drop deads. They are not a cross between squats and SLDL... they are their own animal.

If you want a massive back here is the formula:

Deadlifts
Pullups
Bent over rows

 

[Debaser]

SLDL's do not hit your back hard enough for me to agree with you casual. I love full ROM deadlifts but nothing kills your back like partial deads with a wide grip, here's a snippet from Dave Maurice for those interested:

To perform the wide grip partial deadlift, set up with blocks or in a power rack so that the bar is anywhere between just below your knee caps to the center of your knee caps. To get your grip width, flex your lats like you want to show off, and then put your straight arms out and resting on the lats (you'll look like a dork). Anywhere between there and arms about 45 degrees out from your body will work. Use a pronated grip and use straps. The performance of these is just like that of a regular deadlift from the midpoint position, only with a wider grip. To really get benefit out of these, the lifter has to be good at fighting to pull the bar back at all stages of the lift. None of this "arm hanging down" nonsense. Not only can that lead to back rounding, it can be very hard on the shoulders. Start with the bar right against the knees, and drag the bar up and down the thighs. Try to think row - you can't row such a heavy bar, but you can sure try to pull your shoulders back and try to to touch your shoulder blades to each other. Again, this is just like a deadlift; only your grip position and range of motion has been changed.

Compared to regular deadlifts, these hit the upper back harder, the middle back as hard or harder, and don't give up much for strengthening of the erectors. At the same time, they take enough off the pounding the hips and low back get from regular deadlifts so as to not interfere with squats in those individuals that find squatting and deadlifting heavy in the same week to be too much. By the same token, since these don't do as much for hips and thighs as conventional deadlifts, the lifter better be really getting the job done on those parts with squats or leg presses.

Compared to a conventional partial deadlift, these will do more for the back with less spinal loading. Compared to snatch grip deadlifts, they allow heavier weights over a similar range of motion for the back muscles, while reducing the odds of aggravating the low back. Most importantly, they offer even the clutzy or short armed individuals a way of loading the muscles loaded in a deadlift or dynamic pull in relative safety.

 

[casualbb]

Nobody seems to want to look at the underlying movements. Look, squats, deadlifts, SLDL...all are combinations of hip extension and knee extension.

A conventional deadlift is a is almost equal parts of both. Squat is more towards the knee extension end, and SLDL is more towards the hip extension end.

Now if you do squats and SLDL, YOU'VE GOT BOTH MOTIONS COVERED! Why does everyone think a conventional deadlift is so magical? Because you can handle the most weight?

As to partial deadlifts, yes you handle more weight but the erectors operate from a position of biomechanical advantage relative to the bottom position of a regular deadlift. From the pulling angle, much of the weight is transferred to the spine as compression forces rather than pulling on the erectors. This is because the angle between spine and hips is less than a right angle. The actual load born by the erectors is related to the sine of the angle, so the higher up you go the less load is on the erectors. Unless you are working on your grip (which you aren't because the dude says to use straps), I'd just do SLDL. As to the dude's argument of rack deads putting more stress on the upper back, well sure it does. But it's never gonna compare to a regular barbell row or chin for actually growing muscle.

Bottom line, I do think a form of deadlift is important but if you're doing squats, SLDL works best because it gets the hip extension movement to complement the quad work of squats.

-casual

 

[gonelifting]

Thanks dudes, I thought this thread was dead...

I just started LOVING deads too much to let them go. I was actually thinking of dropping SLDL on one of the 2 days and adding leg curls and switching back and forth.

Also was thinking of doing deads every other workout on deads day. for example WO #2 I would do deads then the next WO#2 I would`nt. or...

I could change the rep scheme and keep doing everything like one day 10-12 reps for all sets and the other day 4-6 reps. Hows that?

If I don`t change ANYTHING I`ll be doing Mon-Squats Sldl - Wed-Deads Fri- Squats SLDL , Mon-Deads... every other day. that`s too much.

How do my ideas sound? which ones are the best?

 

[SofaGeorge]

Nobody seems to want to look at the underlying movements. Look, squats, deadlifts, SLDL...all are combinations of hip extension and knee extension.

A conventional deadlift is a is almost equal parts of both. Squat is more towards the knee extension end, and SLDL is more towards the hip extension end.

Now if you do squats and SLDL, YOU'VE GOT BOTH MOTIONS COVERED! Why does everyone think a conventional deadlift is so magical? Because you can handle the most weight?

As to partial deadlifts, yes you handle more weight but the erectors operate from a position of biomechanical advantage relative to the bottom position of a regular deadlift. From the pulling angle, much of the weight is transferred to the spine as compression forces rather than pulling on the erectors. This is because the angle between spine and hips is less than a right angle. The actual load born by the erectors is related to the sine of the angle, so the higher up you go the less load is on the erectors. Unless you are working on your grip (which you aren't because the dude says to use straps), I'd just do SLDL. As to the dude's argument of rack deads putting more stress on the upper back, well sure it does. But it's never gonna compare to a regular barbell row or chin for actually growing muscle.

Bottom line, I do think a form of deadlift is important but if you're doing squats, SLDL works best because it gets the hip extension movement to complement the quad work of squats.

-casual

casual... what may look right on paper doesn't necessarily translate to reality.

Squats and SLDL don't remotely hit my back the way deads do.

 

[Debaser]

I'd have to agree...

I've done balls to the wall rows, chins AND shrugs before, none of which have made my traps feel devastated the way partial deads (and standard deads for that matter) have. I would only use shrugs as deadlift accessory work.

 

[casualbb]

...WHATEVER. Keep in mind the way an exercise "feels" often has very little to do with its muscle-building potential.

 

[gonelifting]

bump , I`ve gone this far... 4 posts up.

 

[overhead]

This may not fit your split, but I rotate deadlift one cycle, rack deadlift the next cycle and bent over rows the next. Thats all in a 8 day period of time. Do the same with squat, front squat and barbell hack squat. Many people do not like doing it this way, but it works well for me.
I did not do deadlifts until about 7 months ago, and I have to say it has increased my back thickness a great deal, also my traps have exploded, I do not have to do shrugs at all and they continue to grow. At the top of the lift, when I roll my shoulders back I can *feel* it in my traps and the soreness the day after tells me it is hitting them hard.

 

[Debaser]

Well, fair enough. If you think shrugs are superior, then why not construct a program like the following?

1. Cable crossovers
2. Lateral Raise
3. Tricep kickbacks
4. Shrug
5. Rear delt machine
6. Hyperextension
7. Pulldown
8. Cable curls
9. Leg extension
10. Leg Curl
11. Calf raise

Do you really think this net similar or better results than the following?

1. Bench Press
2. Standing Press
3. Close-grip bench
4. Barbell row
5. Pulldown
6. Barbell curl
7. Partial Deadlift
8. Stiff-legged Deadlift
9. Squat

 

[gonelifting]

Well, fair enough. If you think shrugs are superior, then why not construct a program like the following?

1. Cable crossovers
2. Lateral Raise
3. Tricep kickbacks
4. Shrug
5. Rear delt machine
6. Hyperextension
7. Pulldown
8. Cable curls
9. Leg extension
10. Leg Curl
11. Calf raise

Do you really think this net similar or better results than the following?

1. Bench Press
2. Standing Press
3. Close-grip bench
4. Barbell row
5. Pulldown
6. Barbell curl
7. Partial Deadlift
8. Stiff-legged Deadlift
9. Squat

Damn, that second one is my EXACT Workout. (almost) I also do BK situps. That`s it 10 excercises and I love it. HMMM maybe I should do all of them in ONE day.

 

[Zander1983]

Yeah, I'd do that exact workout minus curls if I were doing a full-body workout!

 

[The_Eviscerator]

What I would do is put your SLDL on the Day with Squats and on your back day do half-deads with the rack pins set at your knees. You get all the upper back benefit from deads and you still have usable legs the following day.