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What shoulder workout best worked for you?

Y

YoungIntricateMuscle

New member
I have been doing milatary press for my shoulder workout the past 4 months in 4 sets x 8,6,4,2 fashion and 5x5 fashion. My shoulders didn't get any broader or more defined. I heard only definition of the side delts will only make your shoulders wider through side laterals. My question is how should I incorporate the side laterals in my shoulder workout.

Current Shoulder workout
Milatary Press - 3 sets
75 x 10 slow, deep, tight reps
85 x 5 slow, tight reps
95x 5 slow, tight reps

Seated Side Raises (arms straight and held for 8 seconds at contraction
3 sets x 15 reps with two 10 pound dumbbells.


Also, is it true behind the neck press is a more better hit at side delts?
 
YoungIntricateMuscle said:
bodyweight went up from 136 to 156 and milatary weight went from 65 x 8 max to 95 x 8 max.
Click to expand...

Good work.

Honestly, unless you've got great genetics, at 156, you don't have big anything. LoL So you wont have big side delts either. You could add DB side raises if you wanted, they're not taxing so won't impact your progress. IMO, keep your heavy military press going, or maybe switch to push presses or even BTN presses for awhile, but never lose sight of heavy progressive overhead pressing. Maybe switch to 3 sets of 3 for a bit, or warmup, then work up to a top heavy triple, followed by a handful of sets of 5. THEN, grab some dumbbells and do 2-3 sets of 10-12 side raises.
 
Wow i cant believe no one said this. The best delt workout is to pre exhaust the delt with laterals whether its db or cable. reps 8-12. Then without rest hit some type of press, military,behind the neck, db or machine. I always do laterals first to preexhaust. then when you hit your presses the delt is already fatigued, but your tris are not. so its the delt that gives out, not the tricep.You still gotta do heavy presses. this is the basics. Also look into the scott press or arnold press.
 
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palehorse51 said:
Wow i cant believe no one said this. .
Click to expand...
So you think it's best to limit the load you can handle on the heaviest lift?
What's the advantage to this? The goal is to get bigger, not more tired.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
So you think it's best to limit the load you can handle on the heaviest lift?
What's the advantage to this? The goal is to get bigger, not more tired.
Click to expand...
That strength gain is coming from your triceps as well. are you seriously gonna bash the Golden Oldie pre exhaust???? Powerlfters lift big weights. Bodybuilders are bigger! Strength isnt the only aspect of gettin huge bro!! I didnt say do laterals and dont press! what do u think will happen to your delts if you start out pressing 225. then you start hitting laterals first to pre exhaust the side head. then over time you work up to pressing 225 AFTER you have done laterals??? Did you even read his question??? come on..... :)
 
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palehorse51 said:
That strength gain is coming from your triceps as well. are you seriously gonna bash the Golden Oldie pre exhaust???? ROOKIE! Powerlfters lift big weights. Bodybuilders are bigger! Strength isnt the only aspect of gettin huge bro!! Did you even read his question??? come on..... :)
Click to expand...
http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cropped26di.jpg

You might be on to something. Look how puny my side delts are from not doing laterals before overhead pressing 265.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hpim00699fg.jpg

You might be on to something. Look how puny my side delts are from not doing laterals before overhead pressing 265.
Click to expand...
OH....wow, this is a delt question and you show a pic of your quad? WTF??that makes you right! Goin heavy is important. but not everything! Being on gear doesnt hurt either. pop some dbol and you can grow regardless. Are you saying Vince Gironda, Larry Scott, Robert Kennedy, Arthur Jones, Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates dont know shit? Never heard of em?
 
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palehorse51 said:
OH....wow, this is a delt question and you show a pic of your quad? WTF??that makes you right! Goin heavy is important. but not everything! Being on gear doesnt hurt either. Are you saying Vince Gironda, Larry Scott, Robert Kennedy, Arthur Jones, Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates dont know shit? DOPE!
Click to expand...
Link is fixed. But going heavy beats using iso work to limit your strength on a pressing movement every time. Using top level BB's to show a kid how to lift is like telling him to learn to drive by watching NASCAR.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
Link is fixed. But going heavy beats using iso work to limit your strength on a pressing movement every time. Using top level BB's to show a kid how to lift is like telling him to learn to drive by watching NASCAR.
Click to expand...
Dude READ! you have no clue who Vince Gironda is do you? Arthur jones?? LARRY SCOTT was narrow in the shoulders!! he perfected vince girondas one arm HEAVY db lateral. he would then hit the SCOTT PRESS! he built some wicked side heads on his delts!!Those guys i sited are not only some top bodybuilders they are weight training MASTERS! EXPERTS! No one said go light and iso!!! you can go heavy with laterals!!! try the pre exhaust and get back to me.
 
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palehorse51 said:
Dude READ!You dont know shit! you have no clue who Vince Gironda is do you? Arthur jones?? No one said go light and iso!!! you can go heavy with laterals!!! try the pre exhaust and get back to me. your delts are not that great. sorry! you are bloated from dbol.
Click to expand...
They pimped HIT. Jones was a salesman at best, pushihg easy answers and using mega-juiced nutjobs like Mentzer to push his agenda. Not news to me.

Iso = light. No way to get around it. Compare your overhead press poundages w/ your lateral raise poundages. Not even close, right? That's what I mean, not doing an iso to failure and calling it heavy. IMO iso's have their place but only as a small side dish and never as the main course.

try the pre exhaust and get back to me. your delts are not that great. sorry! you are bloated from dbol
Click to expand...
Been there done that. Pre-exhaust will make you 'feel' like you've done more but means shit as far as results go. And the point of the pic was not to say how great my delts are, but rather to show that you don't need iso work to make them grow symmetrically. Hell, you can see my rears in that pic and I do no specific work for them either - they're a result of OHP, rows, and chins. The body grows best when hit with heavy compounds, food, and rest. You can get as cute as you want in the gym but you won't find anything that beats the paradigm in the preceding sentence.

Also, I've never taken dbol. Those were taken a week after test/tren.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
They pimped HIT. Jones was a salesman at best, pushihg easy answers and using mega-juiced nutjobs like Mentzer to push his agenda. Not news to me.

Iso = light. No way to get around it. Compare your overhead press poundages w/ your lateral raise poundages. Not even close, right? That's what I mean, not doing an iso to failure and calling it heavy. IMO iso's have their place but only as a small side dish and never as the main course.


Been there done that. Pre-exhaust will make you 'feel' like you've done more but means shit as far as results go. And the point of the pic was not to say how great my delts were (but gimme a break - them fuckers do look pretty good :)), but rather to show that you don't need iso work to make them grow symmetrically. Hell, you can see my rears in that pic and I do no specific work for them either - they're a result of OHP, rows, and chins. The body grows best when hit with heavy compounds, food, and rest. You can get as cute as you want in the gym but you won't find anything that beats the paradigm in the preceding sentence.

Also, I've never taken dbol. Those were taken a week after test/tren.
Click to expand...
Yeah heavy compounds are bread and butter. He wanted specific for side delt head. CUTE in the gym huh? You obv havent tried pre exhaust. And as i said, when you are on gear you can hit basic lifts and grow period. go back and read his question! he has been pressing!
 
Since I've derailed this thread enough I'll add my $0.02 as to what the poster might try. You say you do the reps tight and deep. Maybe try push-presses (3 sets of 5 or thereabouts) for a while and see what happens. You will handle more weight and therefore cause a greater adaptive response. If you are eating enough I would wager that you will see noticable improvement in a couple weeks. They are great for traps, too.

Also, frequency is good, especially at your stage. Something really basic like Rippetoe's workout in starting strength comes to mind, where you hit the whole body 3x/week and focus on driving the big lifts up. If you really feel the need, a couple sets of laterals at the end wouldn't kill you.
 
none. powerlifting puts enough strain on your shoulders. screw doing pre-exhaustion work. that is for people who dont know anything.
 
Damn gentlemen....some dude asks for your opinion and you guys have an all out internet battle. (*puts on flame resistant suit and prepares for a E-beatdown*)

Now, by EF standards im pretty fat...18%bf...but im not going for the arnold look either...for shoulders for the longest time i have been doing push presses, and they could be bigger...about 6 weeks ago i started doing clean and jerks on a seperate day and my shoulders have definately sized up noticably....i do lateral raises after my clean and jerks for 3 sets of 8, but i definately think throwin a barbell full of metal above your head would produce more results than slow deep tight reps of lateral raises. I could be wrong.
 
:) Damn, get off your knees cum breath. Offer some training advice or go "420" and eat some twinkies. I havent seen you post one thing on training advice. "Do some presses" LOL! Just trying to suck some weenie.. I dont give a crap if you guys like pre exhaust. Its history speaks for itself. Nice calves!! LOL! :)Back in the day they relied more on sound training, and less on juice. If you wanna slam their techniques you are just dumb! Its obvious you fools started juicin the day you picked up a weight.:)Illuminati obviously isnt one of the "wise men of zion".....
 
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palehorse51 said:
Back in the day they relied more on sound training, and less on juice. If you wanna slam their techniques you are just dumb! :)
Click to expand...

Didn't they do things "back in the day" like several sets of heavy BTN presses? Seemed to grow delts nicely. Or are you saying that without pre-exhaust, you can't grow em?
 
al420 said:
If things don't get better I may kill myself. I am just totally pre exausted w/ this nonsense...lol
Click to expand...
hitting the bong pre exhausts you. as does opening the fridge.
 
I do millatery press 5x5 for size then the rest is all super sets of all kinds just blasting the shit out of them till they stop working.
 
needtogetas said:
I do millatery press 5x5 for size then the rest is all super sets of all kinds just blasting the shit out of them till they stop working.
Click to expand...

However you slice it, that's a tried and true plan. Heavy work sets followed by lighter "metabolic" work, backoff sets, whatever you call 'em. Built lots of powerful men well before Flex started hitting the racks.
 
Protobuilder said:
Didn't they do things "back in the day" like several sets of heavy BTN presses? Seemed to grow delts nicely. Or are you saying that without pre-exhaust, you can't grow em?
Click to expand...
Another illiterate !@#$. Read the posts.
 
palehorse51 said:
:) Damn, get off your knees cum breath. Offer some training advice or go "420" and eat some twinkies. I havent seen you post one thing on training advice. "Do some presses" LOL! Just trying to suck some dick. I dont give a fuck if you fems like pre exhaust. Its history speaks for itself. Nice calves!! LOL! :)Back in the day they relied more on sound training, and less on juice. If you wanna slam their techniques you are just dumb! Its obvious you fools started juicin the day you picked up a weight.:)Illuminati obviously isnt one of the "wise men of zion".....
Click to expand...
Maybe post a pic if you're gonna come of as such a 'GURU'. It'd be nice to see if you're just a blowhard who likes to argue or if you have actually used your methods successfully.

BTW Illuminati's a beast. You keep calling people out w/out knowing a thing about them. Lame.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
Maybe post a pic if you're gonna come of as such a 'GURU'. It'd be nice to see if you're just a blowhard who likes to argue or if you have actually used your methods successfully.

BTW Illuminati's a beast. You keep calling people out w/out knowing a thing about them. Lame.
Click to expand...
Yo, who called who out??? I gave some good advice, if you disagree, thats cool. I dont care. You are a hater who has a lack of training knowledge and had nothing to offer. But fools wanna disrepect and call names because they dont know alot about training. you dont know shit about me either. Everyone is hard when they are sitting behind a computer. Like i already said, gear makes up for lack of training knowledge. point out what part of my advice is bunk. you cant. :)
 
palehorse51 said:
Yo, who called who out??? I gave some good advice, if you disagree, thats cool. I dont care. But fools wanna disrepect and call names because they dont know alot about training. you dont know shit about me either. Everyone is hard when they are sitting behind a computer. Like i already said, gear makes up for lack of training knowledge. point out what part of my advice is bunk. you cant. :)
Click to expand...
Well, I'm calling you out now. Put up or shut up. My pics are up.

Based on this post I think I know who exactly you are:
http://www-vlsi.stanford.edu/~jsolomon/clan9/personnel_images/nilla_real.gif

And the bunk advice was telling a newb teen to worry about pre-exhaust over increasing his lifts and eating.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
Well, I'm calling you out now. Put up or shut up. My pics are up.

Based on this post I think I know who exactly you are:
http://www-vlsi.stanford.edu/~jsolomon/clan9/personnel_images/nilla_real.gif

And the bunk advice was telling a newb teen to worry about pre-exhaust over increasing his lifts and eating.
Click to expand...
Nice pic of your boyfriend! Your front delts are big, you have no side delts!Nice acne too.re read the thread bloat. dont worry mouth, ill post a set of before and afters for you to jerk off to. Have a Guinness and a smile and STFU!
 
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palehorse51 said:
Nice pic of your boyfriend!
Click to expand...

Geez, it's like 8th grade all over again. Tell me some 'your momma' jokes and I might really get mad :rolleyes:

Your front delts are big, you have no side delts!
Click to expand...
When you go in for your lobotomy, have 'em check your eyes, too. WTF are you talking about???
 
needtogetas said:
wow the aas board fights more then c@c now.wtf is going on.I dont miss fighting one bit.I like being a nice guy now.any one want some k.
Click to expand...
I'm done wih this thread. I'm embarassed that I even went this far in this ridiculous argument. Sorry to all who read it.
 
I agree with guiness and illuminati, the guy doesn't need some fancy pre-exhaustion routine to work in, it's plain and simple that he just needs to get stronger and put on some more mass. How many people have big shoulders at 156lbs? And the easier one, how many people have big shoulders who push press 95lbs? None.... Plain and simple, keep adding weight each week, eat above your calorie maintenance and keep the scale moving and you will see some shoudler development.
 
zgzaz, my dad has very wide delts for his 146 pound 6% bf, 5ft 5 frame. He was a really bad ectomorph when he started. He never did any protein shakes or vitamins or anything at all. He ate maybe twice a day, thats it; no not the horrible foods here in america; he lived in russia and ate all natural foods and meals. He started training when he was 18. At 20 he brought his bench up 100 pounds and had perfect symetry everywhere, got to 6% bf by running 1-2 times a day WHILE working out all in just 2 years, so that blows the "don't do cardio while gaining muscle theory". He did random compound and isolation exercises with no specific plan. He did a lot of the old school kettle weights for his tri's. I saw a video of him at age 20, and he was huge at 146 lb. That's also when he came out of the army. But he is the type of guy that looks only really big with his shirt off, more just lean and husky with a shirt on, more like a wrestler's look.

Sometimes, the principles i learn with getting all this protein and calories beyond your mental limit and time managment, and resting a lot when building muscle, and limiting running, which conditions your body and helps pump out lactic acid, is all starting to get really anoying and should only apply to people on roids.

whats an arnold press?
 
OK, everyone! What happens when you max out on your Military and/or DB Press?!? The pre-exhaust method would be an excellent way to pass a plateau!
 
thegoodfoods said:
OK, everyone! What happens when you max out on your Military and/or DB Press?!? The pre-exhaust method would be an excellent way to pass a plateau!
Click to expand...
if you're not being scarcastic this is how:

re-set weights back a tad (or deload completely), ramp back up over the course of a few weeks... and hit new PR's. That's how you break through ANY plateau.
(That's the "Idiot" proof method. Alot of people go in and screw around never having a plan and usually deload not knowing it and then "go for da biggg maxxxx day" and hit new PR's... but what they've done usually is what i've outlined)

Or eat more.
 
Palehorse said it plain and simple. If you pre-exhause the deltoids then go on the a press, the deltoids will already be tired and will wear out before the triceps. If you think about it it makes sense. Arnold said something extremely similar to this in his book/encyclopedia. If it works for Arnold, and especially if he's giving other people advice about how to do it and how it works, then IT WORKS!!
 
thegoodfoods said:
Arnold said something extremely similar to this in his book/encyclopedia. If it works for Arnold, and especially if he's giving other people advice about how to do it and how it works, then IT WORKS!!
Click to expand...
are you saying you have Arnold's genetics and work ethic... and drug doses?

Nugga please.
 
al420 said:
Deep burn is correct. Guiness is correct. Illuminati is correct.

Palehorse is a douchebag.
Click to expand...
hahahahaaaaaaa!!! sorry just catching up on this thread!
 
Sarge_ said:
That's a good question... do you think he did Pull from the floor?

his core was tiny.
Click to expand...
i'm almost positive he never deadlifted....his main back exercise was wide grip chins....he used to do like 50 min everyworkout

he did do t-bar rows though i remember that.

i think it looked something like this

wide grip chins
t-bar rows
btn pull downs
seated rows
hyper extensions

all 5x15,12,10,8,6
 
I'm almost sure I've seen Arnold doing some damn heavy deads.

To say 'Arnold did it so it must be great' is a hasty conclusion. For one, he's a genetic freak who was likely on tons of gear (no one but him knows how much, but I have to believe it was a lot). Second, the person who posted this thread is a newb. Telling a newb to do anything other than hammer out the big lifts and get stronger at them, and EAT, is not good advice.

Perhaps pre-exhaust and whatnot is advantageous when trying to harmonize an advanced physique, but when you're new and small, it's nothing more than overcomplication that will result in slower progress IMO.
 
I couldnt agree more. When you are NEW you stick to the basics until you have a good foundation. shit, i believe i have a good foundation and i still stick to the basics. I mean i used to waste my time with that shit when i was young and dumb. I didnt see shit for results until i realized what the staples were. So listen here, if youre pressing 300 for reps and are ready to compete and you think your upper pecs or rear delts are lacking, well then it may be time for pre-exhaust or some other type unconventional work.
 
Yeah, it's important to remember and to recognize what advice applies to whom. If you read some advice that the 5x5 is good for growing your arms, and are disappointed that your 20" arms didn't get any bigger, well that was because that advice wasn't for you. A skinny bastard would have done quite well for himself.
 
This is the best thread ever. :jenscat :Popcorn: :mix: :rainbow: :heart: :jenscat :theshadow :jenscat

For what it's worth I don't think I've ever done a side lateral in my life.
 
beerdrinker said:
Yeah, it's important to remember and to recognize what advice applies to whom. If you read some advice that the 5x5 is good for growing your arms, and are disappointed that your 20" arms didn't get any bigger, well that was because that advice wasn't for you. A skinny bastard would have done quite well for himself.
Click to expand...
I'd like to emphasize this post.

Well put. That may be the reason most people reading along get thrown off.... because the advice we give is based on experience, background, ect most of the time.

Though most of the great advice does apply to all...eat big to get big, no matter if your 170lbs or 240lbs and looking to grow.
 
Sarge_ said:
I'd like to emphasize this post.

Well put. That may be the reason most people reading along get thrown off.... because the advice we give is based on experience, background, ect most of the time.

Though most of the great advice does apply to all...eat big to get big, no matter if your 170lbs or 240lbs and looking to grow.
Click to expand...

QFT.
 
Maybe it's me, but I've never seen anyone who OH pressed 225+ have small shoulders. But I've seen plenty of small guys heaving DB's for all sorts of laterals.
 
Ill be honest , I dont like the look of these shoulders. Traps are huge but the shoulders point down and dont look wide to me.

I think large traps take away from the wide look. I think the best looking shoulders are on basketball players who add some muscle to go with their large lean frames.



Guinness5.0 said:
http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cropped26di.jpg

You might be on to something. Look how puny my side delts are from not doing laterals before overhead pressing 265.
Click to expand...
 
eric22 said:
Ill be honest , I dont like the look of these shoulders. Traps are huge but the shoulders point down and dont look wide to me.

I think large traps take away from the wide look. I think the best looking shoulders are on basketball players who add some muscle to go with their large lean frames.
Click to expand...
I gotta agree, this guiness5.0 guy doesnt look that great for being on test and tren. You can see your rear delts from this pose because your side delts are not there. The problem with alot of guys these days is that they start taking gear the same day they pick up a weight. So yeah, a guy on gear doesnt need to worry as much about training techniques because they are going to grow all over regardless because of the juice. I like gear but i trained without it for many years, trying to learn from the old school trainers that didnt rely on juice.
 
Got Cajones? said:
I gotta agree, this guiness5.0 guy doesnt look that great for being on test and tren. You can see your rear delts from this pose because your side delts are not there. The problem with alot of guys these days is that they start taking gear the same day they pick up a weight. So yeah, a guy on gear doesnt need to worry as much about training techniques because they are going to grow all over regardless because of the juice. I like gear but i trained without it for many years, trying to learn from the old school trainers that didnt rely on juice.
Click to expand...
Dipshit -- I weighed 225 at 6 ft. tall before I first poked. I'm 27 years old and have done a total of 3 cycles, none of which was longer than 8 weeks and all of which were over a year apart. So to say what you just did is pretty ignorant.

Training techniques? Dude, I am meticulous in my training. I have methodically applied some of the best known programs and tweaked them to suit my goals and experience. I have 90% of my workouts from the last two years logged in this very forum.

I seriously wonder about you two -- not that I'm in this for appearance, but how on earth do you look at that pic and see small delts??? The bulldog tat is directly on my side delt. Note that it sticks way out -- that is the lateral head.

I don't claim to have a world cless physique by ANY stretch of the imagination. I put that pic up to show that big lifts with big weights build big shoulders without iso stuff.

I should probably just ignore you trolls, but here is a pic from before my last cycle (and about 12 pounds lighter than the pic above):
http://img315.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp0411004ky.jpg

If that ain't wide to you, then you have some sort of extreme shoulder-width fetish and need to seek help.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
Dipshit -- I weighed 225 at 6 ft. tall before I first poked. I'm 27 years old and have done a total of 3 cycles, none of which was longer than 8 weeks and all of which were over a year apart. So to say what you just did is pretty ignorant.

Training techniques? Dude, I am meticulous in my training. I have methodically applied some of the best known programs and tweaked them to suit my goals and experience. I have 90% of my workouts from the last two years logged in this very forum.

I seriously wonder about you two -- not that I'm in this for appearance, but how on earth do you look at that pic and see small delts??? The bulldog tat is directly on my side delt. Note that it sticks way out -- that is the lateral head.

I don't claim to have a world cless physique by ANY stretch of the imagination. I put that pic up to show that big lifts with big weights build big shoulders without iso stuff.

I should probably just ignore you trolls, but here is a pic from before my last cycle (and about 12 pounds lighter than the pic above):
http://img315.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp0411004ky.jpg

If that ain't wide to you, then you have some sort of extreme shoulder-width fetish and need to seek help.
Click to expand...
You may need to post those pics in braille cause I think those two must be blind. You are looking pretty fucking solid. Love the traps man. Maybe they should go play basketball then.

Perp
 
That pictures does look better than the first one IMO . I was commenting purely on the shoulders not overall size.

I think shoulder width has a lot to do with genetics more so than any other body part . Calves are the same way.

Also having a lean waist gives the apperance of wider shoulders.




Guinness5.0 said:
Dipshit -- I weighed 225 at 6 ft. tall before I first poked. I'm 27 years old and have done a total of 3 cycles, none of which was longer than 8 weeks and all of which were over a year apart. So to say what you just did is pretty ignorant.

Training techniques? Dude, I am meticulous in my training. I have methodically applied some of the best known programs and tweaked them to suit my goals and experience. I have 90% of my workouts from the last two years logged in this very forum.

I seriously wonder about you two -- not that I'm in this for appearance, but how on earth do you look at that pic and see small delts??? The bulldog tat is directly on my side delt. Note that it sticks way out -- that is the lateral head.

I don't claim to have a world cless physique by ANY stretch of the imagination. I put that pic up to show that big lifts with big weights build big shoulders without iso stuff.

I should probably just ignore you trolls, but here is a pic from before my last cycle (and about 12 pounds lighter than the pic above):
http://img315.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp0411004ky.jpg

If that ain't wide to you, then you have some sort of extreme shoulder-width fetish and need to seek help.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, this Guinness5.0 guy has no business using gear, what with his impeccable training knowledge and 500+ squat and dead. Better cut down to 180, put together a pump-fest workout with no hint of planning or progression, and bitch about being a "hardgainer" before you jump on the sauce, bro.
 
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