What is best for explosive power?

[dzuljas]

i would also add the power snatch into your workout, GREAT lift

 

[stonecold54]

all olympic lifts teach you to generate force from the ground up. You start with the legs and finish with the upperbody, football is the same thing, you come off the line and drive up and out.......if you think that olympic lifting and moving heavy weights doenst benefit football players talk to any college or nfl player

the fact the "football players" do something does not make it a fact. olympic lifts teach you how to be good at-olympic lifts. using your logic we could train football players soley by using olympic lifts and no football till the age of 25 and then turn them loose in the NFL and they would be the best players there. obviously that is not true. and most NFL and college players usually just follow the advice of ignorant strength coaches, who is turn are manufactured by the weekend personal training certifications out there.

 

[stonecold54]

Wrong. Explosive moves performed in the gym make you faster and more powerful. They teach your muscles and CNS to generate massive force in an instant.

I think it was back in the 70's that one country tested all of its Olympic athletes in the 10 meter dash. The athletes with the best times were the weightlifters and not the sprinters, because their training made them extremely explosive.

I'd agree that you can't do ONLY gym work for football. You need sport specific exercises to learn how to apply your strength with speed and force. But to say that gym work can't make you a better athlete is ignorant. Do a little research on WSB, soviet sports science, and the like.

"remember heavy weights don't hurt people-quick movements do"

Quick movements performed with weights (i.e. oly lifts and dynamic powerlifts) will enable you to "hurt people."

1. Explosive movements teach your muscles to become faster and better at those movements. This falls under the SAID principle-specific adaptations to imposed demands. the key word being specific. specific means exactly the same, not kind of like or sortof-EXACTLY. an explosive lineman does not have a barbell in his hand when he is on the line so is that specific or sort of like.
2. I didn't say that gym work wouldn't make you a better football player. I said that sport-specific training won't make you a better football player. Being stronger, having healthier joints and tendons, and knowing how to train will make you a better player but those can all be achieved using a sane low-impact healthy workout leaving the player to be healthy on the field.

Oh yeah and as far as the study of course they were faster not because they trained fast but because they were stronger from the weight room. but my point is there are healthier ways to become stronger than quick movements. and also I don't trust studies in the field of training because they do not take into account the principle of Individualism.

 

[Dr. M]

the fact the "football players" do something does not make it a fact. olympic lifts teach you how to be good at-olympic lifts. using your logic we could train football players soley by using olympic lifts and no football till the age of 25 and then turn them loose in the NFL and they would be the best players there.

That argument was never mady by anyone (except you).

Playing football, training on-field for football, learning the game in-depth... all of these things make you a better football player.

Hitting in football is largely assisted by explosion from the hips. Doing PC's/HC's really helped my college career by allowing me to become STRONGER in the muscle groups targeted by PC's, learn how to really explode extremely quicly and fiercely, and the on-field training helped me remove a few helmets here and there.

Getting in the gym isn't what makes a player good - in ANY sport (well, maybe powerlifting...). What getting in the gym does is give that player the STRENGTH to really make something of themselves in a real-world environment. It's like putting an engine in a car; doesn't do anything until you use it properly, but if it's not there to begin with - you're fucked!

-M

 

[Mavy]

You can't be serious. Explosion doesn't come from a pill. It's come from heavy power moves, dynamic moves, and plyos.

Come to the training board, we'll hook you up. You play FB? Where? I'm walking on at DT for Penn State in the spring.

Very true bro! 90% of this will come from your training style, not steroids alone

I would suggest giving plyometric training a shot for a while. If you want "power", you should train for that type of eruptive power. What is power? It is the combination of strength and rate of force/speed of the move. I have never tried plyometrics, but a friend of mine (soccer player), trains for this all the time. I have a book of his that goes into detail, pretty good read. He cycles with Var and creatine only. These are some of the benefits that come with plyometric training.

-Increased power production

-Increased speed of movement

-Increased voluntary muscle contraction (strength)

-Increased proprioception and kinesthetic awareness (body position sense)

-Increased quickness

-Decreased reaction time

-Increased ability to change direction more efficiently and quickly.


Mavy

 

[dzuljas]

the fact the "football players" do something does not make it a fact. olympic lifts teach you how to be good at-olympic lifts. using your logic we could train football players soley by using olympic lifts and no football till the age of 25 and then turn them loose in the NFL and they would be the best players there. obviously that is not true. and most NFL and college players usually just follow the advice of ignorant strength coaches, who is turn are manufactured by the weekend personal training certifications out there.

You clearly took my post out of context. I was trying to get the point across that Olympic lifts generate the most explosive power out of what you could do in the weightroom, so I would definately make them a part of the training. Also I disagree with you on most strength coaches being ignorant...Most strength coaches at major division 1 universities have degrees in exercise physiology, kinesiology, and other fields......What big time division 1 school do you play for stonecold?? Mr knowledgable....

 

[stonecold54]

understand Dr. M I am not saying athletes should not be in the gym. Of course athletes should train in a gym. I am arguing the methods of explosive lifting that has been perpetuated for decades. tell me exactly what would be better for a muscle for getting stronger.

Scenario 1. deadlifting 250 pounds for 1 minute and 30 seconds of TUT-time under tension. the movement is began delibrately with no jerking twitching heaving. the movement has a 4/1/4 cadence.

scenario 2. power clean with 250 pounds. the weight is jerked off the floor. no muscle is actually achieving a quality contraction. I think we can agree. then the weight, using momentum, body leverage and every other technique BESIDES ACTUAL MUSCULAR TENSION, is flung upwards.

now tell me what movement will achieve more strength. and besides that which movement will not hurt the athlete. what point is there at explosive lifting when you are guaranting yourself an injury.

and dzuljas made the invalid arguement to ask a college or nfl player as to the "importance" of the lifts. so I actually wasn't the only one brining it up.

 

[mtex1]

TREN

 

[slobberknocker]

using your logic we could train football players soley by using olympic lifts and no football till the age of 25 and then turn them loose in the NFL and they would be the best players there. obviously that is not true.

To become better at football, you must do MANY things. Dynamic moves, power moves, hypertrophy work, functional strength work, GPP, plyos, and agilities. If you leave any one of these elements out, your performance on the field will suffer.

 

[stonecold54]

You clearly took my post out of context. I was trying to get the point across that Olympic lifts generate the most explosive power out of what you could do in the weightroom, so I would definately make them a part of the training. Also I disagree with you on most strength coaches being ignorant...Most strength coaches at major division 1 universities have degrees in exercise physiology, kinesiology, and other fields......What big time division 1 school do you play for stonecold?? Mr knowledgable....

have you ever taken a course in logic? I will gladely tell you that I dropped out of school. I am proud of that for all the bullshit they teach in school. Having a degree does not mean JACK SHIT. logical arguement does not come from a piece of paper. yes most coaches have all the "normal" credentials but who among them has taken a philosophy course and understands what knowledge actually is. I will just say that you are using Argumentum ad Verecundiam-which I am sure you know means, an argument to reverence and appeal to authority, it is a fallacy to the authority of others. in other words truth is not found in the facts but in what other people say. also you used appeal to laughter- this fallacy attempts to refute by turning ridicule against the other party such as snickers or names hoping to udermine the other person.