What Do Ya'll Think About Mike Metzer Workout Routine?

[curling]

I tried it last week. You know where you do super heavy weight with only like four to five reps real slow down and real slow up(back for instance). Rest only one minute between sets and then hit it again. And only do three different exercises per body part? You can get done in about 15 minutes. I mean he was a pretty big dude.

 

[curling]

Not even one reply? I mean you can be as short as "it works" or "it sux". But if you give no reply, I have no idea if it is worth trying for a while or not. I did try it and it did seem highly intensive and I got a good muscle burn and pump from doing it which would seem to be effective in tearing and growing muscle mass. But come on dudes say something. ok?

 

[DaCypher]

Well, I'm a big fan of HIT (High Intensity Training) which is what Mike did. I've been doing it for about 3 months now and have gotten great results. It can be pretty tough going to failure each set but I think thats what my body needs to get the most results (this may not be for everyone). Anyways, check out www.cyberpump.com for lots of good HIT resources. Tell me if you have any more questions...

 

[curling]

Do you use enough weight where you can only get four reps or so? Also how many different exercises do you do per body part? And thanks for replying.

 

[diamonddiceclay]

he was juiced to the gills

 

[Grizzly]

Well you asked...(Sorry DaCypher) I think Mentzer was a fruitcake, crackpot with a sub-par physique. His workouts are complete shit and I wouldn't do one if you paid me...well, maybe if you paid me. Personally, I hypothesize that what he espouses and what he actually did are two different things and he uses the "Heavy Duty" bullshit just to pad his bankroll.

 

[Blood&Iron]

he was juiced to the gills

Hardly. He made no secret about his steroid use. He used fairly moderate dosages, at least compared to what's common today, as did all of that era(~15mg d-bol a day)

 

[Blood&Iron]

Well you asked...(Sorry DaCypher) I think Mentzer was a fruitcake, crackpot with a sub-par physique. His workouts are complete shit and I wouldn't do one if you paid me...well, maybe if you paid me. Personally, I hypothesize that what he espouses and what he actually did are two different things and he uses the "Heavy Duty" bullshit just to pad his bankroll.

You've got to to be fucking kidding me. 'Sub-par physique'? He's the only person ever to get a perfect score at the Olympia. Oh, but he was so popular among the bodybuilding elite...that must explain it. And again, to spout complete shit about a subject about which you know nothing does not speak well to your critical faculties. Have you tried Mentzer's workouts? If not, your opinion is less than worthless. I'm not going to say either way, as I've never used them himself. I find his obsession with Ayn Rand and pseudo-philosophical conceits tiring but I think there's a great deal of worth in what he says.

 

[Blood&Iron]

Do you use enough weight where you can only get four reps or so? Also how many different exercises do you do per body part? And thanks for replying.

I'm not exactly sure what Mentzer advocates. I employ fairly low-volume myself with a system somewhat similar to what Mentzer employed, although with a bit higher volume and longer rests between sets. I would get his book "Heavy Duty". I'm of the opinion that if you're going to follow someone's advice you should, at least in the beginning, follow it to the letter. I'm sure Mentzer explains exactly how he thinks one should approach things in his books.

 

[Grizzly]

Hardly. He made no secret about his steroid use. He used fairly moderate dosages, at least compared to what's common today, as did all of that era(~15mg d-bol a day)

That seems like he may have lied just a tad. It's highly unlikely that he/those of the time only used d-bol while skipping such wonderful additions such as a good oil based testosterone.

 

[Grizzly]

You've got to to be fucking kidding me. 'Sub-par physique'? He's the only person ever to get a perfect score at the Olympia. Oh, but he was so popular among the bodybuilding elite...that must explain it. And again, to spout complete shit about a subject about which you know nothing does not speak well to your critical faculties. Have you tried Mentzer's workouts? If not, your opinion is less than worthless. I'm not going to say either way, as I've never used them himself. I find his obsession with Ayn Rand and pseudo-philosophical conceits tiring but I think there's a great deal of worth in what he says.

No, I'm not kidding at all. I don't think his physique was that great. I can think of atleast ten bodybuilders who I think had a much, much, much better physique. Really, I can think of a lot more, but I'm just thinking of the ones who blow him away.

It's not that I know nothing about the subject at all. I've read some of his stuff. Nothing earth shattering if you ask me. I haven't tried a lot of people's workouts. It's basically because I know what works for me and why fix something when it's not broken. I don't see how that would disqualify my opinions. You are a HIT trainer. So, most likely, you're not going to try German High Volume training. Would that be because you don't think high volume is any good and, therefore, you would consider it a less than efficient training method compared to HIT? That's pretty much how I've come to these conclusions about Mentzer.

Actually, I kind of like the fact that he likes Ayn Rand. She's one of my favorites. My two favorite books are the Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. To me, that's the one redeeming quality that Mentzer had.

 

[mattcanning99]

HIT depends on a few things, for one your body type, as well as your training experience. not all beginners, for example, will be able to push themselves to the intensity levels necessary to succeed at hit training. and you may find that if you are not naturally mesomorphic and able to readily build muscle mass, that HIT may not work as well for you as some of the more well known pros to use it...both mike mentzer and dorian yates were classic mesomorphs, and HIT worked incredibly well to help them make gains.

i personally use HIT principles to shock my muscles into new growth. they are not part of my regular routine, which is just your regular, conventional 6 - 12 rep bodybuilding.

my advice to you would be to try out HIT for a bit, maybe about a month, and ask yourself if you like the results, if you do, keep training with HIT until you can no longer get results from it, then switch things up. it might work really well for you, it might not, the best thing to do is get some experience with it and decide from yourself. everyone is different, so there is no set answer to the effectiveness of HIT.

 

[DaCypher]

Do you use enough weight where you can only get four reps or so? Also how many different exercises do you do per body part? And thanks for replying.

Well, I did some research on HIT style training (mainly from cyberpump.com) and came up with a routine I thought would be appropriate. From there I continue to tweak it as my body adapts and as I figure out what I find more effective. I would recommend you try something similar, don't just follow a program blindly because it worked for someone else, everybody is different.

Anyways, to answer your questions:

I keep my weight adjusted so I reach concentric failure within the 5-8 rep range. This isn't necessarily true for all exercises, however. For squats and deads I like to do a bit more reps (sometimes up to 10) and I don't always take these exercises to failure for safety reasons.

I do approximately 4 exercises for larger muscle groups (chest, back, legs), and maybe only 2 exercises for bis/tris.

Some of my preferences aren't true HIT style, but so far this is what I have found works well for me. Remember, try out different routines and see what works for you. Good luck bro...

 

[USMC_Devildog]

You've got to to be fucking kidding me. 'Sub-par physique'? He's the only person ever to get a perfect score at the Olympia.

Not the Mr. Olympia contest, the Mr. Universe contest. I know what you're thinkin', "yeah huge difference.....(sarcasm)" but it is a difference. Don't get the Mr. Universe title mixed up with the Mr. Olympia title. He never won the Mr. Olympia title, he was only good enough to win the Mr. Universe. A perfect score in the Mr. Universe contest is a huge achievement.

 

[Blood&Iron]

You've got to to be fucking kidding me. 'Sub-par physique'? He's the only person ever to get a perfect score at the Olympia.

Not the Mr. Olympia contest, the Mr. Universe contest. I know what you're thinkin', "yeah huge difference.....(sarcasm)" but it is a difference. Don't get the Mr. Universe title mixed up with the Mr. Olympia title. He never won the Mr. Olympia title, he was only good enough to win the Mr. Universe. A perfect score in the Mr. Universe contest is a huge achievement.

He also had a perfect score in the 79 Olympia--for his weight class--but lost to Zane who won the under 200lb class. The score sheets are in Arnold's Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding.

 

[Blood&Iron]

No, I'm not kidding at all. I don't think his physique was that great. I can think of atleast ten bodybuilders who I think had a much, much, much better physique. Really, I can think of a lot more, but I'm just thinking of the ones who blow him away.

Okay, fine, this is your opinion. His physique has never been my favorite. But 'sub-par'? That's ludicrous.

It's not that I know nothing about the subject at all. I've read some of his stuff. Nothing earth shattering if you ask me. I haven't tried a lot of people's workouts. It's basically because I know what works for me and why fix something when it's not broken.

And because something works for you, it MUST therefore work for everyone, and additionally, it must therefore be ideal. Quite shoddy reasoning in my opinion. How do you know Heavy Duty wouldn't produce even better results? That's like saying "Well, I've been digging this hole with my hands, and it seems to be working fine. I don't trust that shovel of yours."(Try to ignore the qualitative aspect of this analogy, as I don't konw that HD will work better than your current approach. Until you try it, however, you won't know either.)

I don't see how that would disqualify my opinions. You are a HIT trainer.

Uhh, I thought I established in my rather long-winded post that I'm not anymore. Low-volume? Yes. HIT? Kinda, but not really.

So, most likely, you're not going to try German High Volume training.

Actually, as I've written previously, I plan to give GVT a try, and I certainly won't make any pronouncements that "GVT is shit" before doing so. And even if it doesn't work for me I will limit my comments to "GVT didn't work for me but if you want give it a try."

Would that be because you don't think high volume is any good and, therefore, you would consider it a less than efficient training method compared to HIT? That's pretty much how I've come to these conclusions about Mentzer.

Yes, I do think HIT is more efficient than almost any other type of training. More effective? Maybe. Maybe not. For some, HIT is less than ideal, but of all schools of lifting I think it is the closest to being universally applicable.

Actually, I kind of like the fact that he likes Ayn Rand. She's one of my favorites. My two favorite books are the Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. To me, that's the one redeeming quality that Mentzer had.

I find it tiresome. It's his greatest flaw(Well, actually his complete dogmatism is his greatest flaw, but it's his next greatest flaw...)

 

[Blood&Iron]

That seems like he may have lied just a tad. It's highly unlikely that he/those of the time only used d-bol while skipping such wonderful additions such as a good oil based testosterone.

Yes, he admitted to using small amounts of injectables as well. But again, nothing like pros today.

 

[Grizzly]

Okay, fine, this is your opinion. His physique has never been my favorite. But 'sub-par'? That's ludicrous.


And because something works for you, it MUST therefore work for everyone, and additionally, it must therefore be ideal. Quite shoddy reasoning in my opinion. How do you know Heavy Duty wouldn't produce even better results? That's like saying "Well, I've been digging this hole with my hands, and it seems to be working fine. I don't trust that shovel of yours."(Try to ignore the qualitative aspect of this analogy, as I don't konw that HD will work better than your current approach. Until you try it, however, you won't know either.)

Well, it's like this. I figure that you've got outstanding and blah. Perfect and shit. The best and not worth anything. I think it has something to do with my perfectionism or my desire to dominate and be the best. I just figure that if something isn't the greatest then it isn't anything. Just my take on the matter.

The reason that I answered the way I did is because he fucking asked, alright? He said "If you think it sux then say so." So, I did. Get off of my fucking back! I wasn't even going to reply to the thread because I knew no one wanted to hear what I think about it, but then he begged for some answers so I did. Nor did I ever imply that my methods are the greatest for everyone. Actually, I couldn't give a fuck as to what works for you or him or her because I really only care about developing my own body. I'll tell someone what I think is best but I don't care if they use it or not.

Just out of curiousity answer me this question. If you were using a workout system that produced consistent gains all the year round, would you try something else in the hopes that maybe it might be better? I wouldn't. That's why I won't. Ok, let me amend that. If I thought that it made a lot of sense then I would try it. But, that's not what I think about Mentzer's crap. So, then, why the fuck would I try it? Why would I waste a month of time trying something new and possibly not growing any when I could continue doing what I know to work and make some gains? That could be a month that has been completely lost. Not my cup of tea at all.

 

[Grizzly]

Yes, he admitted to using small amounts of injectables as well. But again, nothing like pros today.

Hey, I've heard that Lee Priest only uses primo and anavar with a little d-bol here and there. This is what he's told people. Highly doubtful. I guarantee that Mentzer didn't use nearly as many drugs, but he probably downplayed what he did just a little bit. No one wants to hear "You only look like that because you use a ton of drugs." So, you admit to using a tiny bit and then you can say "Sure, I use, but not that much." I'd say that to get an accurate picture one should probably double whatever it is that he said he used. 15mgs/day of d-bol my ass!

 

[transplant]

He had a great body!

Did you see his video he made, days before he died?
It starts off with a some brief posing of mentzer.................he had a fucking outstanding body for that era! Video is great.....will explain any questions you could have about Heavy Duty!
He methods are great, but you must apply them to your own body! He states this in his book! If his idea or way of training sucks so bad................how about Dorian Yates!
You use Heavy Duty as a base and adjust to your own bodytype.
I am 5'8 and 220 ........ without touching juice! I have recently start a cycle though! So.............it does work! I graduated high school at 5'8 and 132 lbs......and now a few year later, I am amost 90 lbs heavier!
Good luck, Curling!
P.S. You can get the video at www.dpsnutrition.com

 

[Grizzly]

Re: He had a great body!

If his idea or way of training sucks so bad................how about Dorian Yates!

Ok, I hate this. For the last time, Dorian Yates was not trained by Mentzer nor did he use the Heavy Duty system. He did utilize a fairly low volume system, but it was a far cry from what is laid out by Mentzer. The reason that this story got to be the way it is is because it was good publicity for the both of them and the bodybuilding game is very much about name recognition. Check out the interview with Dorian at T-mag. He dispels it all there. Also, for the first 6 or 7 years of his training he employed the traditional high volume routines that most bodybuilders use.

 

[OMEGA]

Re: Re: He had a great body!

Ok, I hate this. For the last time, Dorian Yates was not trained by Mentzer nor did he use the Heavy Duty system. He did utilize a fairly low volume system, but it was a far cry from what is laid out by Mentzer. The reason that this story got to be the way it is is because it was good publicity for the both of them and the bodybuilding game is very much about name recognition. Check out the interview with Dorian at T-mag. He dispels it all there. Also, for the first 6 or 7 years of his training he employed the traditional high volume routines that most bodybuilders use.

agree and disagree.

we need to define Yates stlye.

he used several sets to get warmed up on a particular exercise, then did a set to failure, then mayber another drop set.

then he would move to another exercise and do 1 warm up set, and 2 set to failure.

then another exercise and do 1 warm up set, and one to failure.

so the answer is really a combo

the first exercise is volume in the sense that it thoroughly prepares the body for a max set, but the folowing exercises are definitly in the high intensity style.

soory it's lat eso for clarification her would be a sample workout for a body part.


chest

decline

1 set by 50%
1 set by 75%
1 set by 90%
1 set max weight till absolute failure
rest- pause do another 4 reps

incline dumbells

1 set by 75%
1set max weight till absolute failure


cable fys

1 set by 75%
1 set max weight till absolute failure

 

[transplant]

Re: Dorian Yates

O.K Grizzly,
I am not going to waste too much time with you or your posts, but as far as Dorian Yates................... I never fucking said Mentzer trained him! He did train with Mentzer one time! He also states in his new book that "Over the years, I increased the intensity to the point where I currently do one all-out main set for each exercise. It took me 9 yrs. to develop the powers of concentration that allowed me to apply myself 100% to one all-out set per exercise." In chaper two of his new book (A portrait of Dorian Yates) he states "I formulated my training philosophy using MIKE MENTZER'S HEAVY DUTY high-intensity principles as a base."
You don't even train Heavy Duty / high intensity.......so why you post on the subject or even think you know what the hell your talking about is beyond me, but try posting on a subject you know about......... it is helpful to the reader!

 

[transplant]

Whoops!

The book is called a" A Warriors's Story"

 

[Grizzly]

Re: Re: Dorian Yates

I am not going to waste too much time with you or your posts, but as far as Dorian Yates................... I never fucking said Mentzer trained him!

You don't even train Heavy Duty / high intensity.......so why you post on the subject or even think you know what the hell your talking about is beyond me, but try posting on a subject you know about......... it is helpful to the reader!

No, you didn't say that, but that is part of the myth that surrounds the whole thing that many people buy into.

And I don't know anything about HIT why? What, I can't read a fucking book? I've done my share a reading about it which is why I know that I don't like it, thank you very much. Actually, let me amend that. I've read about Heavy Duty and I don't like it. I consider what I do to be very high intensity. Maybe I can't claim to do HIT, as it is laid out in the HIT faq, but what I do is definitely very high intensity.

 

[Charlie B]

I knew Mike Mentzer very well, and was lucky enough to stay with him over a couple of summers, training and just learning. You can't argue with logic, simplicity, and results. I had a great deal of respect for Mike and was very sad when I heard about his death. One thing I always enjoyed was watching him debate with his critics over his training theories. I never once saw him have to hesitate, think about it, or research it when it came to a response to a question. I can't say the same about those that challenged him. And to Grizzly, can you explain why High Intensity Training is "shit" and other workouts are not? Do you even know the philosophy behind the system?

 

[Charlie B]

Clarification ---- Mike Mentzer did train Dorian Yates. This is not a myth it is a fact. Dorian Yates did adopt the high intensity routine with some slight modifications, but when you are on the juice you recover faster and can afford it, whereas those that are natural have little room for error.

 

[transplant]

You are wasting your time!!!!!!

Charlie B,
I envy you for knowing Mike Mentzer! I would not waste your time with Grizzly..........he is surely not going to change his way of thinking! I previously replyed to this post to stick up for Mike Mentzer / Heavy Duty / H.I.T.
Any post on this subject is going bring attention to people who just have no idea about the subject or someone who tried it and not properly used it! I love to debate this subject and will defend it with facts and not myths. I do know that Dorian Yates traveled to the US and had Mentzer train him, but it was for two weeks and he asked mike to do this because after Mentzer supervised his bicep workout , Dorian was so impressed with Mentzer! Dorian noticed an improvement right away and asked mike to train him for the next two weeks, so he could go home to England and use the one set per exercise idea for his 1992 Olympia training! This is what Grizzly was debating and he is 100% wrong! I agree with you about Dorian's steroid use, steroids will increase you recovery ability........so he put more of a demand on his system to compensate.......which still lead him to the one set per exercise and he just worked out more often!
Dorian's workout had a few warm up sets, but not all his exercises had warm up sets! These guys think they are working sets and that falls into the theory of "Dorian used to do alot of sets" which is also false! Heavy Duty also has you preform warm-up sets......which is not really in depth in his books, but in his video!
For anyone who questions Heavy Duty or has intrest, I recommend watching the video!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Charlie B]

Thanks Transplant. I'm new to this site, but it hasn't taken me long to figure out that many of these people ask questions but don't pay attention to the answers. Training theorie is not complicated, people just make it so. Mike used to tell me "don't have an open mind, have an active mind. An open mind takes in everything assuming that it has some value, an active mind takes in everything, analyzes it, keeps what is valid, and gets rid of what isn't." It sounds like you're a thinker. Would be pleasure talking some more in the future.

 

[transplant]

Thanks!

I appreciate it! I am sort of new myself....... to the board, but not to the game!