What are your thoughts on training with abnormally low testosterone?

[Stew Meat]

Do not call me uneducated.
Why are you telling this guy to fool around with antiestrogens that are not good to take long term for your cardio vascular health, to train as hard as possible in the false belief that this will significantly raise his natural testosterone levels, and to sufffer more and more loss of quality of life. Sure it is possible that eventually he will get his natural testosterone levels a higher, but if you listen to his goals and needs this is really not a satisfactory situation.

Because clinical trials have shown that antiestrogens induce higher levels of testosterone. Clinical trials have also shown that heavy resistance training raises the baseline testosterone levels in men.



-Stew

 

[Horny]

OK I have had enough of your obvious contempt for my knowledge in this subject. You have succeeded in making me lose much of my respect for your understanding regarding aas. You are not a doctor stew and i don't know what you are trying to prove by pretending to be one.

 

[Horny]

Primobolan and Anavar in normal dosses will not shut down or interfere in any way with natural hormone production, genious. And they are lower in side effects than any other AS, especially testosterone.


-Stew

my last post on this subjet...
primo and anavar have far worse side effects on the lipid profile than testosterone does. Testosterone in replacement dosages has 0 side effects except that it shuts down your natural testosterone level, a side effect which is fully reversible.

Also, the guy has been on the antiestrogens and they haven't done anything. If you read his post you will see this.

Also, resistance training is more often than not is the culprit behind guys lower testosterone levels (overtraining, high cortisol levels, etc.).

 

[Stew Meat]

come on now don't play word games. I obviously meant that AFTER years and years and decades of supplementing with replacement therapy, ONCE AND IF YOU DECIDE TO STOP IT, you can recover your natural testosterone levels.

If you read my posts it is obvious that I am not recommending that this guy supplement with testosterone replacement in order to recover his natural testosterone levels.

The gentleman is having trouble getting his natural testosterone levels up. You told him to inject 100mg. He is already having problems because he shut down his HPTA from AS. He is not recovering normally. Further suppression and permanant hormone replacement shoudl be the last resort.



-Stew

 

[Stew Meat]

my last post on this subjet...
primo and anavar have far worse side effects on the lipid profile than testosterone does. Testosterone in replacement dosages has 0 side effects except that it shuts down your natural testosterone level, a side effect which is fully reversible.

Also, the guy has been on the antiestrogens and they haven't done anything. If you read his post you will see this.

Also, resistance training is more often than not is the culprit behind guys lower testosterone levels (overtraining, high cortisol levels, etc.).

Is this really Fonz under a different handle...?


-Stew

 

[Perry]

Yozzer
If your levels are that low, its dam serious, with some potential Very serious consequences, especially for those who train, chief among them (I think), is osteoporosis, bone fractures, back trouble, etc., not even counting depression an oh yeah,,,SEX?
Your doc should have had you on TRT already.
An try an find one that will give /let you inject. The patch can take awhile.

 

[Yozzer]

Thanks for the advice bros, but I must say, there is no doubt Horny has hit the nail on the head. Antiestrogens have not worked, and I see no reason why that is going to change. Even though my low test levels may be attributed to bad use of steroids, the view I get is that after 9 months they should have rose to normal levels by now. I can only conclude there is another reason behind this that I am unlikely to ever find out.......the doctor and endocrinologist have been a complete waste of time....literally. They have had me wait, wait and wait, yet the only answer they can come up with is 'we'll give it another 4 months (that will be August) and if it hasn't come back to within normal levels we'll have to think about testosterone injections'. WTF makes them think anything is going to change??
My way of life is training, eating and trying to perfect my body, yet it will NEVER happen unless something is sorted out, and that means test injections. Not only am i being denied the chance to achieve my goals, but i am suffering from low sex drive, an estrogen imbalance (fat deposits), infertility for Gods sake, and ofcourse, as mentioned already but cannot be undervalued, the inability to put on muscle mass. I should be 40 lbs heavier than I am.
Stew, you said test injections should be a last resort, well, this is the last of the last of the last of all resorts. I have tried EVERYTHING. Even the endocrinologist is bemused by it all.
All I can do is get the best out of this situation. I am seeing my doctor today and I am much better equiped because of Horny to argue my case. Nevertheless Stew Meat, simply because your advice does not suit me does not mean you are wrong. As IG said I am not normal and you probably didn't take that into account.

I will post any updates. If you have anything to add please do. Also, I don't know what the docs are like over there but they don't like being told what to do over here in England. In fact, they listen very little to what you want, and dismiss it in most cases.

Yozzer

 

[lunatic calm]

A while back, before I was learned , I made an attempt to do a bb show naturally. Little did I know, I overtrained way too much (added too much cardio) and sacrificed alot of muscle during the process. I also attribute it to insufficent kcals especially in the form of pro and fat. I had all the signs of low T even though I never got it checked by a doc: irritability, loss of muscle mass (determined by freq bodyfat measurements), loss of strength, severe depression. When the show was over, I was a shell of a man. I thought just because I ate normally again, I could hit the weights hard and heavy. All I did was fuck up my low back. My strength was literally half of what it was. It took me months to completely recover without the aid of anything other than protein supp. I guarantee I had the T levels of a 12 year old girl at the time and I paid for it severy by screwing up my back. I'm still recovering from that one.

 

[FOZY]

If it makes you feel anybetter I was in the same situation. Clomid got my LH back to normal but my Test levels kept bouncing up and down,,,,,,,,,Endo told me that stress shuts down pituitary gland which made me relaize what was going on.......

I had the same symptoms, I was real depressed and very fatigued. I have been like this for years and was put on zoloft. ( never had t levels measured) Well when I went to the endo he took me off the zoloft and put me on clomid. Like you, it raisesed my LH but never got me back to normal ranges. Thiing is I did not feel any different.

He started me on the androgell in April and let me tell you, best thing that coiuld have happened. I feel great I also have been using primo and I feel better then I have in a long time.

My advice....get on some sort of replacement you WILL NOT regret it in any way. WAY more + then -

BTW- I am comming off in august and doc wrote me a script for nolva to try to raise levels again. Clomid was giving me those vision sides so he wants to try Nolva instead

Hang in there and I guarentee things will get better

 

[Yozzer]

I'm feeling a lot better already bros. There ain't anything worse than training hard for years, looking in the mirror and thinking 'I don't look like i've trained 2 minutes never mind 2 years'. It's hard wanting desperately to train and knowing I cannot until I get sorted. Someone on the board taught me a valuable rule lesson...patience IS a virtue.

I'm leaning to test replacemnt despite what Stew and others have advised. Horny has been the one that has hit home in my situation. As i've said, the doc or the endo have not even mentioned clomid, nolva etc.....only test injections. Anyways I have tried and it has not worked. I would rather have test injections than no test at all. Nothing else is working.

Yozzer