Westside Questions

[Tom Treutlein]

I understand you're supposed to rotate your max effort exercise every 3 weeks or so, but I don't workout at a gym. I workout at home, and that's my only option right now. I don't understand how to do a floor press, or a board press. How many boards would I use? How would I press from the floor without any type of rack?

Also, all the ancillary work is stuff you see at gyms. Pulldown ab crunches, GHRs, rack pulls.

I really want to gear towards strength in a couple weeks (post-HST) but I can't seem to get a solid Westside split going. Can everyone please help me out here? I'm trying to find other websites with example routines, but they're all shit.

 

[casualbb]

My personal opinion is that all that WSB exercise rotation isn't necessary. They'll tell you it's to bring up your weak points and that neural strength patterns will carry over to your target movements, and that's true. But I really think it's this shotgun effect. If you bring up strength on like three dozen movements, your bench, squat, and dead must go up, right?

If I did WSB, which I will in a year or so, I would find my weak points, pick at most 2 exercises to target those, and then just keep hitting the movements I want to improve. Quick quiz: which movement has the most carryover to a squat? Answer: squat.

Here's what I'd do:

My lower ME moves would be:
Olympic squat,
Deadlift

My lower DE moves would be:
Oly squat with bands,
GH raise (if you have one), or speed deads with bands

ME upper:
Bench, Weighted Pullups (cause I like them)

DE Upper:
Bench with bands, speed pullups

Auxiliary work to bring up weak points as you need to. Also keep in mind that board presses are not an essential part of the program. But tricep work is. Try CG bench or even french presses (aka JM presses)

That's two things to alternate each specific day. No fancy rotation, no need for boards or whatever.

 

[b fold the truth]

It is pretty clear from this post that you do not know a lot about the WSB methods.

My personal opinion is that all that WSB exercise rotation isn't necessary. They'll tell you it's to bring up your weak points and that neural strength patterns will carry over to your target movements, and that's true. But I really think it's this shotgun effect. If you bring up strength on like three dozen movements, your bench, squat, and dead must go up, right?

Exercise rotation is necessary as the athlete adapts quickly to certain exercises, especially if they are an advanced one.

If I did WSB, which I will in a year or so, I would find my weak points, pick at most 2 exercises to target those, and then just keep hitting the movements I want to improve.

I do agree with this a great deal and this IS what WSB is about. You are supposed to find the 2-3 exericses which help to bring up your weaknesses and keep them in your rotation. For me, those are basically chain suspended good mornings. They seem to work the BEST for me. I will do different stances, rep ranges, with and without bands, etc... To help my squat I've found that doing free GM's help a great deal as well.

Quick quiz: which movement has the most carryover to a squat? Answer: squat.

Wow...you didn't pass your own quiz here. If all it took for people to squat over 1,000 pounds was just squatting...they would just keep adding 5 pounds to the bar each week for a few years and they would be there. It doesn't happen that way at all and it takes many things to equal a BIG squat.

On another note...WSB is all about finding both the most effective and the most efficient exercise for your needs. This is why they box squat. The box squat builds the squat AND the deadlift...not just one or the other. The use of bands is also KEY to this. If you haven't used some serious band tension on box squats before...you will not understand how similar this actually feels to a deadlift as well.

Here's what I'd do:

My lower ME moves would be:
Olympic squat,
Deadlift

The Olympic squat is not going to build the power squat or the deadlift. You have not addressed any weaknesses either.

My lower DE moves would be:
Oly squat with bands,
GH raise (if you have one), or speed deads with bands

Again, you are not addressing any weaknesses or understanding the volume approach to bringing them up to par.

ME upper:
Bench, Weighted Pullups (cause I like them)

The bench press is not the best way to overload and increase the bench press. Adding to this, you are once again not working any weaknesses to the bench press. No triceps here, no rotator cuff work, not partial work, etc...

DE Upper:
Bench with bands, speed pullups

Still no weakness work at all.

Auxiliary work to bring up weak points as you need to. Also keep in mind that board presses are not an essential part of the program. But tricep work is. Try CG bench or even french presses (aka JM presses)

Everyone needs weak point work because everyone has weak points. Board presses ARE an essential part of a program for a BIG bench press. The board press IS also a good tricep exercise. Also...JM presses are not also known as French Presses. Have you done both JM and board presses before?

That's two things to alternate each specific day. No fancy rotation, no need for boards or whatever.

Sounds great...if you aren't really interested in a big bench, squat, or deadlift.

If you are interested in learning what WSB is all about...read EVERY article at www.elitefts.com and there are actually a lot of good people who train AT WSB who are members on www.totalelite.com.

B True

 

[casualbb]

Bfold, I think you misunderstand. Everything I've listed is my opinion.

ALso I listed olympic squat because that's the squat movement that's most important TO ME. This is the program the I plan on trying later. I'm listing it as an example of a WSB-ish program that doesn't necessitate a lot of gym accessories.

I understand much of it goes contrary to base WSB doctrine. I'm okay with that.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

I understand you're supposed to rotate your max effort exercise every 3 weeks or so, but I don't workout at a gym. I workout at home, and that's my only option right now. I don't understand how to do a floor press, or a board press. How many boards would I use? How would I press from the floor without any type of rack?

Also, all the ancillary work is stuff you see at gyms. Pulldown ab crunches, GHRs, rack pulls.

I really want to gear towards strength in a couple weeks (post-HST) but I can't seem to get a solid Westside split going. Can everyone please help me out here? I'm trying to find other websites with example routines, but they're all shit.

Wow B-good analysis..
TT here a page of links with routines..might see something you like!!
http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/routines.html

 

[b fold the truth]

Bfold, I think you misunderstand. Everything I've listed is my opinion.

ALso I listed olympic squat because that's the squat movement that's most important TO ME. This is the program the I plan on trying later. I'm listing it as an example of a WSB-ish program that doesn't necessitate a lot of gym accessories.

I understand much of it goes contrary to base WSB doctrine. I'm okay with that.

I fully understand that it was your opinion. About 90% or more of what I posted was not opinion though...it was fact for anyone concerned with getting stronger.

With serious training (especially when one is talking about putting up BIG numbers) opinions don't mean much. What WORKS does. One can not really have a full opinion about how WSB should work for them till they try it. For anyone new to WSB...I'd suggest reading EVERY article, training to the T as they suggest, and spending lots of time on www.totalelite.com and learning from some of the best out there.

Just my thoughts...

The info is out there if one is willing to search for it, read it, and do all they can to understand it and put it to use.

B True

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I'm reading the articles right now. There's a lot of them, but I have the next 24 hours with pretty much nothing to do. It's time for me to study, thanks everyone.

One more thing...The main thing I see is that despite all the strength work (which usually carries over to size) there seems to be a minimal amount of stress placed on the chest. Maybe I'm just being stupid, but would the chest grow much on this program? I can see how the limbs would, and the back. The chest just seems very neglected. I say that because I know the PL style of bench uses more tricep than anything.

 

[b fold the truth]

I'm reading the articles right now. There's a lot of them, but I have the next 24 hours with pretty much nothing to do. It's time for me to study, thanks everyone.

One more thing...The main thing I see is that despite all the strength work (which usually carries over to size) there seems to be a minimal amount of stress placed on the chest. Maybe I'm just being stupid, but would the chest grow much on this program? I can see how the limbs would, and the back. The chest just seems very neglected. I say that because I know the PL style of bench uses more tricep than anything.

If your "weakness" is lack of chest size...add in a size movement. I also do inclines in the training. Add and subtract to make it what works for YOU.

B True

 

[Debaser]

Wow...you didn't pass your own quiz here. If all it took for people to squat over 1,000 pounds was just squatting...they would just keep adding 5 pounds to the bar each week for a few years and they would be there. It doesn't happen that way at all and it takes many things to equal a BIG squat.

I would just like to respond to this point...if it doesn't happen this way then why are so many olympic lifters such great squatters, yet don't do a great deal more than actual squatting to bring up the lift?

 

[b fold the truth]

I would just like to respond to this point...if it doesn't happen this way then why are so many olympic lifters such great squatters, yet don't do a great deal more than actual squatting to bring up the lift?

Let me see...they do TONS of different things in the gym AND their goal isn't a BIG squat.

They do overhead squats, front squats, back squats, clean and jerks, snatches, and a MILLION other things.

When an Olympic Lifter decides to focus on the squat...they WILL do a lot more than JUST squat.

By your same rationale...all an Olympic Lifter would have to do to get better at the clean and jerk...is simply clean and jerk. All they would have to do to get better at the snatch...is simply snatch. That is NOT what they do though...they work their WEAKNESS to build those two exercises.

Still...find me a person who can squat a grand who doesn't work on their weakness.

B True

 

[Debaser]

Let me see...they do TONS of different things in the gym AND their goal isn't a BIG squat.

They do overhead squats, front squats, back squats, clean and jerks, snatches, and a MILLION other things.

When an Olympic Lifter decides to focus on the squat...they WILL do a lot more than JUST squat.

By your same rationale...all an Olympic Lifter would have to do to get better at the clean and jerk...is simply clean and jerk. All they would have to do to get better at the snatch...is simply snatch. That is NOT what they do though...they work their WEAKNESS to build those two exercises.

Still...find me a person who can squat a grand who doesn't work on their weakness.

B True

I'm pretty sure Ed Coan trained pretty simply, and nothing like Westside. He used simple linear periodization, and he's probably the strongest powerlifter ever to live.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

What would a size movement be, B? Incline presses? And I'm assuming something like 3x5 or 3x8 or 2x12? Somewhere in that rep range?

 

[Debaser]

This is where I would also disagree.

There's no such thing as a "size movement" because what generates growth is a progressive increase in load. Tension is all that the muscles know.

 

[b fold the truth]

I'm pretty sure Ed Coan trained pretty simply, and nothing like Westside. He used simple linear periodization, and he's probably the strongest powerlifter ever to live.

Ed trains his weaknesses as well...and with lots of different exercises.

Do you think that ONLY WSB focuses on their weaknesses? Seriously...is that really what you think?

You avoid so many points in my posts it isn't even funny.

Ed is not the strongest powerlifter to ever live either. He has not beaten A LOT of people's totals.

I don't expect you to understand strength training...because you have no experience with it. That is ok and understandable.

B True

 

[b fold the truth]

What would a size movement be, B? Incline presses? And I'm assuming something like 3x5 or 3x8 or 2x12? Somewhere in that rep range?

Incline presses is one that I like to include to help with my overhead press and will give the appearance of a fuller chest. I like inclines for many reasons.

By saying that it is a "size movement" I do not mean that the bench press is NOT one.

The competition and strength lifts are A LOT of technique. With that technique comes a lot of practice learning all the tricks and leverages. The bench press is A LOT of tricep strength...not just pec strength.

With the WSB speed benching approach, I would often finish off with some inclines, picking and choosing my reps and weights. Sometimes I'd do a coupld sets of 10, some sets of 5, some of 3, or singles. Whatever my goal was at the time and I often would rotate them. I also liked to do pyramids (upwards and downwards) for inclines. Normally, I would only do 1-3 work sets (hard ones) on the incline though.

Another "size movement" could simply be the curl. I do curls to help with injury prevention in Strongman and you can do them as well to suit your needs. Don't focus on them though...spend about 5 minutes once or twice a week nailing them.

I'm about to run to town for a bit but I'll try to find some more info for you that might work with your goals as well. If we can't solve it here or through email...I'll give you a call in the next couple of days so that we can find something that will suit your needs with what you have to train with.

B True

 

[wnt2bBeast]

I'm pretty sure Ed Coan trained pretty simply, and nothing like Westside. He used simple linear periodization, and he's probably the strongest powerlifter ever to live.

In the link i posted in this thread there a sample of ed coan's DL routine..Im thinking of giving it a go to bring up my DL..

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Can't give B any more karma right now, shit haha.

I appreciate all your help man. A lot. I'm trying to design a little Westside routine now. Still reading through all those articles.

When I choose auxillary exercises to accompany my ME/DE day lifts, how should I determine them? Make them lifts that target the bodyparts used, correct? So a bench would have accessory exercises for lats, triceps, and shoulders?

Oh and also, something I still don't get perfectly but probably should...
How do you do the ME days? Say you choose good mornings...
What do you put on the bar to start? Then, how many sets are you supposed to use to work up to a 3 RM? Is it supposed to always be a 3 RM? A 1 RM? Any specific % to increase the weight by each set? I'm so lost with these and refuse to start until I understand it.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

I'm about to run to town for a bit but I'll try to find some more info for you that might work with your goals as well. If we can't solve it here or through email...I'll give you a call in the next couple of days so that we can find something that will suit your needs with what you have to train with.

B True

Damn B..thats real sweet of you offering phone consultations!!! j/k bro..i really think that is something special that you would go out of your way to help someone like that.. my hats off to you..need to spread some green before i hit you again!!!!!!

 

[b fold the truth]

When I choose auxillary exercises to accompany my ME/DE day lifts, how should I determine them? Make them lifts that target the bodyparts used, correct? So a bench would have accessory exercises for lats, triceps, and shoulders?

This is how I have set up my DE Lower days lately

Box Squat
6-8 sets of 3 with 45 sec rest between
varying weights, percents, and band tensions

Deadlifts
410 (roughly 60%) x 1 x 6 sets, 30-45 sec rest between
lately I've been going heavier here though, went up to 660 this past week

GM's
wide or close stance for 4 sets of 5-10 reps with 142-322 (light)

Pull Throughs
3-4 sets of 10 reps

Reverse Hypers
3-4 sets of 6-10 reps

I'll also finish off with some calves and abs as well.

My ME upper is based on what I want to do on overheads, which is totally different from flat bench work. When I did a standard WSB approach for bench, this is what I did (or something like it).

2, 3, or 4 board press
up to a 1RM or 3RM

JM Press
3-4 sets of 3-8 reps

Tric Exercise (tates or rolling dbell exts)
4 sets of 5-10 reps

Dbell Cleans
4 sets of 8 or so

Lat exercise
4 sets

Bicep exercise
2-3 sets

Pick and choose what you wish on these. Just remember that you are always trying to bring up the hamstrings on Lower days and Triceps on Upper days.

Oh and also, something I still don't get perfectly but probably should...
How do you do the ME days? Say you choose good mornings...
What do you put on the bar to start? Then, how many sets are you supposed to use to work up to a 3 RM? Is it supposed to always be a 3 RM? A 1 RM? Any specific % to increase the weight by each set? I'm so lost with these and refuse to start until I understand it.

I always start with NO weight for a set of 5 (After stretching too) and then I'll do at least 1 set with just the bar for 5 or more. My best free GM is upper 5's (raw) and 675 chain suspended from 40" (raw also) so I'll make 90 pound jumps till I get around 400 or 500..then I'll make 50 and 40 pound jumps from there. When doing free bar GM's, most people will either do 3's or 5's and with chain suspended people will normally just do 3's or singles. I'll do 3's up till about 3 plates a side and then I'll just do singles from there.

It will take TIME for you to figure out what will work for you. You will have to play with the jumps that you and your body like to take.

If you are new to things like board presses and GM's...I suggest spending EXTRA time working on your rotator cuffs and core. Don't start out by going for singles...start by doing 5's. You could easily do this:

Week I:
ME Lower: GM's with wide stance up to a 5RM
ME Upper: 2 board press up to a 5RM

Week 2:
ME Lower: GM's with narrow/mid stance up to a 5RM
ME Upper: 3 board press up to a 5RM

Week 3:
ME Lower: GM's with wide stance up to a 3RM
ME Upper: 2 board press up to a 3RM

Week 4:
ME Lower: GM's with narrow/mid stance up to a 3RM
ME Upper: 3 board press up to a 3RM

Week 5:
ME Lower: GM's with wide stance up to a 1-3RM
ME Upper: 2 board press up to a 1-3RM

Week 6:
ME Lower: GM's with narrow/mid stance up to a 1-3RM
ME Upper: 3 board press up to a 1-3RM

From there you could go back to the 5RM or back to the 3RM if you wish. You may find out that you like chain suspended GM's quite a bit so you could do them here instead.

If you are wanting to try out a new ME exercise and work on form...do it as your 3rd exercise on Lower day or maybe your 2nd exercise on Upper day. As I outlined above as how I trained...you could add in chain suspended GM's (or any other new type for you) after deadlifts. You could do floor presses 4/5/1 board presses, pin presses, etc...instead of JM Presses on Upper day.

Keep it simple at the start. Remember to work hard on whatever you are doing with the program but you can't go 100% on every exercise.

Keep asking questions man...the phone call offer still stands.

B True

 

[casualbb]

I'm sure Westside *works.* Duh it works. One of the things I like to do is ask why something works.

For instance, I know why a mixture of maximal and speed work works. But stuff like rotating ME exercises? I never heard any rationale that I was okay with. I did go to elitefts.com and couldn't find anything there. Just a bunch of workout schemes, no rationale.

From your perspective, the "why" probably doesn't matter, as long as you're getting results. But I can sympathize with tom as an individual who doesn't have a lot of available PL-specialized equipment. So I'm not going to lose sleep over board presses especially when nobody ever gave any reasonable explanation of why they're so much more essential than the ga-jillion other tricep exercises that exist.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I agree with Casual in that I like to know the "why" behind things. I also tend to let go of that curiosity sometimes, when someone with results like B speaks up.

The phone call offer is awesome of you B. I'll keep that in mind, definitely.

Assuming proper training and diet and rest, in about a year's time, how much do you guys think is possible to add to a bench or squat for someone who's just starting out? I was wondering because a friend of mine, relatively new to lifting, would want to try the program along with me.

 

[lavi]

I'm sure Westside *works.* Duh it works. One of the things I like to do is ask why something works.

For instance, I know why a mixture of maximal and speed work works. But stuff like rotating ME exercises? I never heard any rationale that I was okay with. I did go to elitefts.com and couldn't find anything there. Just a bunch of workout schemes, no rationale.

From your perspective, the "why" probably doesn't matter, as long as you're getting results. But I can sympathize with tom as an individual who doesn't have a lot of available PL-specialized equipment. So I'm not going to lose sleep over board presses especially when nobody ever gave any reasonable explanation of why they're so much more essential than the ga-jillion other tricep exercises that exist.

Here's the rationale I found from The Periodization Bible ? Part II



"The max effort method is considered by many coaches and athletes as being the superior method of strength development. It places great demands on both intramuscular and intermuscular coordination as well as stimulating the central nervous system. These demands force the body into greater adaptation and this adaptation is what's responsible for strength gains.

When training using the max effort method, the central nervous system inhibition is reduced. Thus the max number of motor units are activated with optimal discharge frequency (Zatsiorisky). The one drawback to using this method is that you can't train with weights above 90 percent RM for much longer than three weeks before the nervous system begins to weaken. When this happens your strength will begin to diminish.

This is one of the major reasons why progressive overload will only work for so long. With this in mind, Westside set out to find a way around this three-week barrier. The way to overcome this barrier is to switch the exercises used for the max effort method every one to three weeks. This keeps the body fresh so the method can be used year round."


Just sharing, if it works for you I dunno

 

[b fold the truth]

For instance, I know why a mixture of maximal and speed work works. But stuff like rotating ME exercises? I never heard any rationale that I was okay with. I did go to elitefts.com and couldn't find anything there. Just a bunch of workout schemes, no rationale.

I know that rotating ME exercises works better than sticking with the same one because of several things.
I've tried doing the same ones every week and I got weaker.
It is boring.
By doing the same one every week, you develop another type of weakness.
Everyone who trains with me sees that changing the ME exercises works...because their numbers increase as long as they are doing the exercises which work for them on a rotational basis.

Most everyone who knows me, knows that I don't get mixed up in all the "why's" of this and that. Sitting around thinking about the "why" is time I could be spending doing other productive things towards my training. If I find an exercise that works for me, or two or three of them, I don't really care why they work as long as they do.

I will say this:
Chain Suspended GM's work to increase my deadlift because it is from a dead stop. I set them up from 40" because when I'm in the deadlift position that is where the bar would be if I had one on my back instead of pulling it from the floor. This helps me drive off the floor. It also helps with my squat as well as most all of my events (which are deadlift related too).

Free Bar GM's help with my squat because they teach me to sit back when I squat, strengthen my back/hips/hams/erectors, are both a negative and positive movement (like the squat and not like the deadlift), and help to strengthen my back in a way which most people would get hurt when they miss a squat.

With these two, I can find a million ways to do each of them. Bands (mini, light, mid, heavy, combos of each, different tensions), chains, weight releasers, depths, stances, reps, paused, rounded vs arched, seated, etc... With so many to choose from...I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I didn't find what worked best (which will take a while) and do those on a regular basis (but not weekly).

From your perspective, the "why" probably doesn't matter, as long as you're getting results. But I can sympathize with tom as an individual who doesn't have a lot of available PL-specialized equipment. So I'm not going to lose sleep over board presses especially when nobody ever gave any reasonable explanation of why they're so much more essential than the ga-jillion other tricep exercises that exist.

I don't have a lot of PL-specialized equipment either. I have a bar, a squat rack, lots of plates, and some bands. I made my boards with some old 2x4's...they aren't expensive. $15 and you have a full set of boards as long as you don't mind using a saw for a little while (I have "fun" with mine...lol).

I began doing WSB before I had a squat rack. People seem to forget the days when I did my box squats while using an old rusty pair of 55 gallon steel drums for a squat rack and a couple old tires for a box.

Here are some articles which include information on the board press as well as rotating ME exercises:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls10.htm
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/triceps.htm
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/conjugate-method.htm

Those are just three quick ones that I looked at that included a lot about it. If you can't find reason in those or in the post that was posted by lavi...then you just leave me bogged about the entire thing...lol. People can't just add 5 pounds to the bar every week and get stronger. How does this not make sense to you?

WHY does it all work...ask the TONS of people...the THOUSANDS of people who train like this or similar and they will show you with their numbers. Check out www.nazbar.com and see what they do.

You don't have to agree with me or the thousands or more who also get GREAT results with these methods...and that is fine. You need to also realize that you have not done WSB, you do not train for strength, you have not researched strength training like I have, and you are not putting up the numbers that I am. If puting up big numbers is not your concern...then that is perfectly fine and understandable. I've been there in my life and in my training, but that was a long time ago.

Not understanding why something works to YOUR satisfaction is ok I guess. Not a justification for NOT doing them though. I don't understand HOW my truck works completely...but I do understand that if I get in it and head to town...I'll get there a lot quicker than if I start jogging. I didn't just decide to be happy jogging till I understood all the mechanics of my truck though.

B True

 

[b fold the truth]

I agree with Casual in that I like to know the "why" behind things. I also tend to let go of that curiosity sometimes, when someone with results like B speaks up.

I do understand a lot of the why's behind things but have a BIG problem putting them into the correct words. I talk with a southern accent and it is tough for me to express things through simple typed words. Never think that I'm an expert either, I'm just someone else a long the way trying to learn what works best for my body.

Let me give you an example:

Last year I decided that I was just going to squat heavy instead of doing my normal box squat routine with bands or doing heavy GM's. My squat went up a little bit for about 2 weeks. You know what it did after that? It went down...and so did my deadlift. I'm sitting here all puzzled when it hits me that I left out my big strength building exercises named the box squat and the good morning.

I also found out that I need to pull heavy pretty often to maintain my strength in the deadlift. Using 60% of my 1RM for singles didn't cut it for me. It took me sitting down and looking at my progress and what I was doing to understand WHY this was taking place.

Late last year I was really trying hard to get better at the Atlas Stones but I chose (for some stupid reason) to cut out chain suspended GM's or a month or two. Darn it if I just didn't lose strength on these as well.

In prep for my last contest (even dealing with some serious injuries) I went for heavy sets for the last 4-6 weeks on overhead. My strength shot up...then went down just before the contest. I forgot that for my overhead to increase...I need to do lots of volume on the overhead. Since I got back, I have been, and my overhead in all areas is UP..way UP. So is my incline bench (372 x 2, no spot, no lift off, last week).

My old workout partner found that what exercises worked for me...did NOT for him. He needed more hips so he did more wide stanced exercises and LOTS of sumo pulling. The sumo pulling helped his squat like crazy. He found that deadlifting off a platform helped his deadlift from the floor and so did reverse band deads. None of those worked for me, but DID for him.

The phone call offer is awesome of you B. I'll keep that in mind, definitely.

I'm a laid back guy man. A lot of people from here have met me in person and even been to and in my home. Send me your number and I'll call you Monday evening sometime.

Assuming proper training and diet and rest, in about a year's time, how much do you guys think is possible to add to a bench or squat for someone who's just starting out? I was wondering because a friend of mine, relatively new to lifting, would want to try the program along with me.

You really can't assume a lot about things like this. If he is a complete newbie...he needs to spend time building his base and using HEAVY weights is not his best option. That is just my opinion though...I'm not used to training complete beginners. Most people that I work with on a weekly basis have some small back ground in lifting (3-4 months at least). A lot depends on technique and finding what works for you. Anything is possible.

B True

 

[lavi]

I appreciate the time you took to write this b fold.

bump...

 

[wnt2bBeast]

TT once your routine is finalized post it up for the board to read i think it will be very useful!!

 

[silver_shadow]

I understand you're supposed to rotate your max effort exercise every 3 weeks or so, but I don't workout at a gym. I workout at home, and that's my only option right now. I don't understand how to do a floor press, or a board press. How many boards would I use? How would I press from the floor without any type of rack?

Also, all the ancillary work is stuff you see at gyms. Pulldown ab crunches, GHRs, rack pulls.

I really want to gear towards strength in a couple weeks (post-HST) but I can't seem to get a solid Westside split going. Can everyone please help me out here? I'm trying to find other websites with example routines, but they're all shit.

hey bro, i have collected alot of info on WSB and have made it all in to one pdf file. if u'd like i could mail it to u. it may be useful- it's just 380kb.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Yeah sure, my e-mail address is...
[email protected]
or
[email protected]
or
Legion [email protected]

 

[ChinkNasty]

yo silver shadow, you think you could mail that shit to me as well?

[email protected]

thanks in advance man.

peace,
CN

 

[Debaser]

Yeah sure, my e-mail address is...
[email protected]
or
[email protected]
or
Legion [email protected]

I had no idea that was you legion.

 

[casualbb]

Hah. Legion Kreinak? What a trip! I would never have guessed because you seem so much more mature now.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Yeah haha, I'd said something in the past and no one seemed to recall the name. I've definitely grown a bit, I know that. Kind've changed my alias to get a fresh start and stuff.

Anyway, I just read over the majority of that PDF Shadow sent me. I appreciate that greatly, my friend. I'm going to start outlining a Westside routine now. The big problem will be for me to buy all the equipment and find a place to put it. You figure a power rack, boards, a sled, chains, bands...ech. I'd better start getting money.

And I just checked out www.elitefts.com and the stuff costs way too much. Bands alone are $20. Let alone sleds and boxes for squatting. $155-$180 just for those, plus $30 shipping. Hmm...this is going to be rough. Perhaps I should wait before starting Westside?

 

[b fold the truth]

And I just checked out www.elitefts.com and the stuff costs way too much. Bands alone are $20. Let alone sleds and boxes for squatting. $155-$180 just for those, plus $30 shipping. Hmm...this is going to be rough. Perhaps I should wait before starting Westside?

A full set of bands is $155 I do believe. This may have included shipping. Pair of mini, light, mid, heavy bands.

A sled...you can put some rope around an old car tire.

A box...I use a pair of old Ford Van Mags with an old aerobic box on top of it.

Never see the walls...only ways to go over them.

B True

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Hmm...while I try and figure ways to go around them, I'll probably start on another type of training routine, just to keep conditioned. Anyway, are there any specific ways to go about sled dragging? Do you make weight incretments every workout? Do you ever change the weight?

Could I make a homemade sled somehow? My dad and uncle were always good with carpentry and general workshop stuff, so maybe they could help me out there.

As for a box...that could probably be built, correct?

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Okay, I made a sample Westside split for myself for you guys to check out. I don't have a squat rack or a training partnet, so floor and board presses can't be done right now. I also can't really do partial deadlifts because I don't have a rack. Every exercise here I can do, aside from reverse hypers. Is there any way I can utilize objects around the house to form a custom reverse hyper? I really want to incorporate these into my routine.

Monday (ME Squat/Deadlift)
Good Morning (ME Exercise)
Straightleg Deadlift-----3-6x5-8
Decline Crunch---------3-5x6-12
Reverse Hyper----------3-4x6-10
Lower Body Sled Dragging (no sled yet, so I have no idea what I'll do here)

Wednesday (ME Bench)
Closegrip Bench Press (ME Exercise)
Dumbbell Extension-----6-8x8-12
Bentover Row----------2-3x5-12
Front Raise------------2-3x8-15
Lateral Raise-----------2-3x8-15
External Rotation-------2-4x12-15

Friday (DE Squat/Deadlift)
Box Squat-------------8x2
Straightleg Deadlift-----4-6x5-8
Leg Raises-------------3-5x6-12
Reverse Hyper---------3-4x8
Lower Body Sled Dragging (again, no clue)

Sunday (DE Bench)
Bench Press------------8x3
JM Press---------------2-4x2-8
Widegrip Pullup---------2-4x5-8
Military Press-----------2-3x8-15
External Rotation-------2-4x12-15

Tell me what you all think. It's very basic since I'm just getting into Westside training, but I think I'm beginning to get the idea.

 

[Devastation]

I'm pretty sure Ed Coan trained pretty simply, and nothing like Westside. He used simple linear periodization, and he's probably the strongest powerlifter ever to live.

i don't know what was ed coan's highest total but i'm 1,000% sure it wasn't garry frank's 2805

 

[b fold the truth]

Looks like a start for a plan.

For the sled drag...I do not drag the sled. It taxes my body too much and I do not recover from it. I don't think that it completely necessary at the moment for you.

B True

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I hear that. I just like the idea of it, sounds like fun. I wanna rig up a homemade reverse hyper device. The schematics of it don't look too difficult to follow, and it's better than paying $700 for one from www.elitefts.com.

 

[Debaser]

i don't know what was ed coan's highest total but i'm 1,000% sure it wasn't garry frank's 2805

I'm having trouble finding the exact stats on the net but if anyone could that would great...find out the following information for both Ed Coan and Gary Frank:

1. Total lifts
2. Weight class
3. All equipment used

Because the last 2 are pretty important.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

I'm having trouble finding the exact stats on the net but if anyone could that would great...find out the following information for both Ed Coan and Gary Frank:

1. Total lifts
2. Weight class
3. All equipment used

Because the last 2 are pretty important.

i beliee ed coan was not as heavy as frank?
heres Frank's stats
squat 1085.8
bench 837.75
DL 881.84
total=2805.35 <<< absolutely sick!!!!!!!!! thats from a guest appearance
at the arnold's he was in the super heavyweights and his total was 2706

 

[wnt2bBeast]

you didnt look to hard for coan's stats did you? lol
http://www.mcshane-enterprises.com/ASL/coan.html
239lbs
squat 1003
Dead 901
bench 573
total=2463

 

[Devastation]

The big problem will be for me to buy all the equipment and find a place to put it. You figure a power rack, boards, a sled, chains, bands...ech. I'd better start getting money.

And I just checked out www.elitefts.com and the stuff costs way too much. Bands alone are $20. Let alone sleds and boxes for squatting. $155-$180 just for those, plus $30 shipping. Hmm...this is going to be rough. Perhaps I should wait before starting Westside?

bands are one of the best investments you can make in aiding you in the sport. don't worry about spending a couple hundred bucks, cuz by the time your finished, (if you are dead serious about powerlifting/strongman) you'll spend thousands. if you find yourself constantly worrying about money, stop powerlifting, cuz there isn't any money in powerlifting

clint is right about the other shit, making and improvising your training aids. i started out box squatting on a pail. i made my own chains and i made my own weight releasers. boards took me 20 mins to make and now i have 1 thru 5 boards. it's easy to overcome obstacles. step back and see the way around them

 

[b fold the truth]

I'm having trouble finding the exact stats on the net but if anyone could that would great...find out the following information for both Ed Coan and Gary Frank:

1. Total lifts
2. Weight class
3. All equipment used

Because the last 2 are pretty important.

Ed is a 242...but that does not make him stronger than anyone else. Pound for pound doesn't mean a think when a total is concerned. The stronger man puts up the biggest numbers.

As for support gear and a mono lift...Ed HAS competed with them and still did not touch Garry's numbers.

B True

 

[Debaser]

Ed is a 242...but that does not make him stronger than anyone else. Pound for pound doesn't mean a think when a total is concerned. The stronger man puts up the biggest numbers.

As for support gear and a mono lift...Ed HAS competed with them and still did not touch Garry's numbers.

B True

Ed weighed 220 and totalled 2402. Doesn't Gary Frank weigh like over 350 lbs? That's like, another whole person...lol

Also, my question wasn't whether Ed has ever competed with support gear...it was what support gear was he using with 220? I'm pretty sure it wasn't with 2-ply gear and a monolift. And Ed squats DEEP.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Ed weighed 220 and totalled 2402. Doesn't Gary Frank weigh like over 350 lbs? That's like, another whole person...lol

Also, my question wasn't whether Ed has ever competed with support gear...it was what support gear was he using with 220? I'm pretty sure it wasn't with 2-ply gear and a monolift. And Ed squats DEEP.

half a dozen of one 6 of the other!!! both are impressive lifters...

 

[b fold the truth]

Ed weighed 220 and totalled 2402. Doesn't Gary Frank weigh like over 350 lbs? That's like, another whole person...lol

Also, my question wasn't whether Ed has ever competed with support gear...it was what support gear was he using with 220? I'm pretty sure it wasn't with 2-ply gear and a monolift. And Ed squats DEEP.

Garry is still the stronger lifter. Hands down. I respect Ed completely, 100% for what he has done as well. Farther than I'm sure I'll go.

Ed also said that the reason he does NOT wear briefs...is because he feels that they actually hinder him in his squat...not help him.

I will say again...when Ed competed with the SAME support gear as Garry did and with a monolift etc...I believe that he did a 1038 squat at the same depth as everyone else.

B True

 

[Lumberg]

I began doing WSB before I had a squat rack. People seem to forget the days when I did my box squats while using an old rusty pair of 55 gallon steel drums for a squat rack and a couple old tires for a box.

I remember that!

"Another Fun SUnday XX/XX/XX"

 

[Lord_Suston]

WOW, So much good info and everyone is tryin to debate a PRO, without even coming close to touching his numbers.... Lunacy I tell you

 

[Debaser]

WOW, So much good info and everyone is tryin to debate a PRO, without even coming close to touching his numbers.... Lunacy I tell you

See that's the beauty of "debate." Correct debate exists in the absence of ad hominem, a common falacy.