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Westside... A Gimmick??

Deciever

Deciever

New member
its time for a story!
today im lifting and this one guy who lifts at the gym who im friends with is completely opposed to going sumo on deadlifts, and especially on squats. He also, seems to be completely opposed to Westside barbell, after i told him about a 3 board press , as he said "Sounds like a gimmick" "must be a retards plan". So i explain to him more about it and he goes "well who created this" and i just said "dave tate and louis simmons i think" and he goes "see, noones ever heard of them, i think you might've fallen into a gimmick"
also, since he is a personal trainer he is completely opposed to my narrow sumo squat style, saying it places to much stress on the knees and i would squat more close in (actually i squat 45lbs less conventional), and the same for deadlift.
Also he than proposes that if i train with him for 3 months, he can "garuntee" a 20lb increase on my bench, 40 on squat, 50 on deadlift. Now doesnt that kinda sound like a gimmick? I could make those gains myself, whethere i trained westside, his style, or my own. For a beginner like me, gains like those come somewhat easy to me.
lastly, im working on my squatting depth today.. and i have 135 on the bar, my usual narrow sumo stance, going as low as i can with good form, and i was goin to like 4 inches below parralel, and the is just constantly telling me to switch to narrow stance...
and that was my day.....i just wanted to vent, cause it got me pissed off
 
This dude is full of shit lets see if you can get him on the net and look up westside then after he does that tell him to come here and post westside is a gimmick and tell Dave himself that and his other 4 800lb benchers or whatever those guys are doing up there and all over, then see what he has to say. :fro:
 
Do me a favor Deceiver. Tell that grabastic piece of amphibian shit that a piece of paper with the words "certified personal trainer" doesn't mean crap when the person holding it has no background in weight training. Anyone can take a course and become "certified" but if you don't have the blood, sweat and tears to back it up, what good is it. Just because you read the instructions doesn't mean you know how to make it work. This dipwad is criticizing a plan that has produced numerous world champions and is backed by undisputable data. If he hasn't researched it and/or tried it, tell him to fuck off next time he tells you to squat narrow. If he did his homework, he would see that a wider stance incorporates the posterior chain and increases your leverage. Sorry if I offended you because he a friend of yours. It just burns my ass when some uneducated spunk talks bad about powerlifting technique without knowing what they are talking about.
Okay guys, I'm off the soap box. Thanks.
 
Tell that grabastic piece of amphibian shit that a piece of paper with the words "certified personal trainer

lol i love that line, sounds very smart. when he see's the progress i'll be making when i start, that'll speak for itself
 
Actually I borrowed that line from the movie Full Metal Jacket but the rest was all me!!!!! You keep pounding the cold steel westside style and watch the gains explode. Don't concern yourself with his forgotten ways.
 
i love the drill sergent in full metal jacket..
and actually i havent started westside yet, im just experimenting this month, fooling around with different techiniques, to see what feeels comfortable.. im gonna be trying the blast your bench program too, so thats gonna be a big risk, cuase its either gonna work, or im wasting 3 weeks of lifting time.
 
Stick with your plan big man...stick with it.

What is a narrow sumo squat style? I am not for sure if I understand this one. Louie reccomends that you keep your feet pointed straight ahead, unless you have a large abdomen. They also have lots of deadlifters that do NOT pull sumo because they get a lot more from conventional.

Also, if you can pull more sumo...then you need to be training conventional. They should be equal...and you should train your weak points.

B True
 
by "narrow sumo" i mean, its not an incredibly wide sumo, look at my deadlift pic in my past thread, i think its a tiny bit narrower than that in my squat.

i've also never seen anyone pull the same in sumo as they do in conventional.. im like 50-75 lbs below in my conventional, but its just so awkward, me being short and all.. im just built for sumo now
 
So what you are saying is that if i deadlift with a narrow stance now...or squat with a wide stance i should change it up to dead with wide and squat narrow? Would that strengthen weak points?
 
How much does this personal trainer guy bench or squat?

Either way, it should be fairly easy to explain the physiological aspects to westside training, as well as citing examples.

I recall being told repeatedly not to deadlift by a bunch of guys that were like 30 and still couldn't bench 180 (they've been there for years). Fuck most people are stupid.

-ZUlu
 
Deciever: I now see about your stance. Just make sure that you are able to activate your hips on both of them. Chuck Vogophul(sp) deadlifts narrow. Ever seen the westside videos when he is doing rack pulls with his heels together?

Sebass67: No, I never mentioned the squat. But, the analogy does have some merit. How do powerlifters train their bench press? They train it with a narrow grip. This works their weak part...their triceps. You still should train your weak deadlifting style as much as possible...if you are weaker in one than the other...then you have a weak point in your body. There will come a time when that weak point will be the limiting factor in if you get it or not.

B True
 
This time around during Westside I am gonna do just what B fold is talking about. I am a strong sumo deadlifter, so I am gonna do a ton of conventional pulling.


Funny, the reason I started doing sumo was because I was doing it as a ME exercise to help raise my conventional, which at the time was my better lift. The the sumos just flew past. Weird.
 
I've been curious about something and I wonder if anyone has an answer... does anyone think that sumo deadlifting will help your squat out some??? I mean I know it will help your deads, but think about it if your using a wide stance and holding the weight on the inside it's really less of a pull like conventional and uses the same muscles as squatting does, am I wrong by thinking this???? has anyone tried this to see if it's true or not???
 
Box squats will improve your squats and deads...

B True
 
I knew box squats would that's why I threw them in but i was wonderin about the sumo deads. Thank you either way. And for me they're not box squats they're cooler squats. I have this powerade cooler in the weight room and I lay it on it's side and place a 25lb plate on top for me squating on it it's 1-2 inches below my parallel. YEA THAT'S GHETTO. ;)
 
My box is a piece of plywood and carpet laying on top of a pair of old Ford Van mags!!! Seriously.

You need to be doing speed box squats in order to improve your squat and deadlift. Just throwing them in will not cut it.

B True
 
OH I Know what I meant to say by throwing them in was I do these on friday my DE SQ/DL day. I do 6X2 low box(cooler) squats with a 4 week difference in %'s 60,63,66,70 then I do a single with 75% to test speed(adam's method).

Hey b fold and about your box, brother whatever works. i was checking out your links on the bottom of whatever that is where you have pics of you carrying around weight. Honestly anyone who saw you wouldn't think you were such an animal. I thought you were the guy you have as a pic pushing a wall or something. Not a flame bro just giving an opinion. Stil your strong as fuck to be doing strongman comps keep it up I wanna try one day walking around with weight see how it feels.
 
Well, in that pic in my avatar...I am 6'2", 285lbs with good signs of abs (in that pic anyway) and I am one of the top amat strongman competitors in the United States. Probably the top 300lber in the nation.

That was me in my avatar...and just give the farmers a whirl...with 305 in each hand, flipping an 800lb tire for 100 feet, doing a 700lb yoke walk for 100 feet, doing a 400+ lb atlas stone, deadlifting 607 without a belt or straps or suit, and doing an overhead standing log press with 275 for 5 reps in 75 sec.

B True
 
Dude either way your stil huge I prob couldn't move that wheel 1 ft. Well maybe but you get my point. OK I get your point your huge, but I wasn't trying to like flame you if that's what your getting at. Hey I was wondering do you do log cleans???? Are these like regular powercleans or they take more tech.???
 
Well...it is just harder to do the log clean, especially with a smaller log. If you have a 10-14" log...it just rolls right up your chest from your knees. With a small log...it is very hard and takes a lot of bicep strength.

I do standing log clean and presses a lot. They are hard to press, the log wants to go back over your head, grip is close and palms facing.

B True
 
Don't ever let someone convince you that you could do more weight if you did it their way. You have to find your own stance and stick with it. Don't be afraid to change it a bit from time to time but no two people are going to get the same results by switching technique.
 
Deciever: Continue with your original plan of training westside and if you get the chance train with IRBD.

On my first outing on Westside I managed to increase my dead by 85lbs and my squat by 65lbs, these results speak for themselves.

Good luck.

How tall are you by the way?
 
Something just occured to me... from what people have said it seems that Westside seems to help your squat/deadlift moreso than your bench.

Is this wrong... it's the impression I'm getting from what various people have said. Same thing happened to me as well.

-Zulu
 
The thing about Westside is...YOU have to find that exercise that will put 50lbs on your bench press. YOU have to find it...no one else can say do this or do that...YOU must find it. A lot of people pick the exercises that they are good at for their ME days...and they do not get stronger. You must do the exercise that you are weak at for ME day...or you will NOT get stronger.

B True
 
Franco, im 5'5 1/2 . im pretty short.. i hope i can get all the results that everyone else is getting.. when i finish planning my westside routine i'll post it up....

and to anyone who can answer... could i do flat dumbell press as a ME exercise?
 
str8man- im def. not changing my stance, it works for me. He tries to use the argument that "it places stress un evenly on the muscles in a sumo stance " "its proven that your strongest with your legs shoulder with a part " " it may work for you now, but in the long run its just going to hurt you"

i think im gonna try convincing him to train westside with me.. so i can really show him what it is
 
b fold you have a point this time around with my training I changed it up a lil then the first 6 weeks I did. for my lift days I have 3 excercises or ME excercises to pick from and like at WSB in OH what I've done is whatever I really don't feel like doing I'll do. The first 6 weeks I really liked DB Elbow outs so I did for 2 weeks on 2 off then 2 on again instead of completely changing this time round whatever I don't feel like doing that day I'll do to put those 50lbs on my bench.
 
Zulu,

I have heard from some people that Westside helped their squat and deadlift more than their bench. This is not true for me, but I have a theory about why some people get much better gains from the deadlifting and squatting than benching.

How many people who are not powerlifters actually squat and deadlift? Not many in my experience. but almost everyone benches, even if it is with poor technique and low weights. someone new to Westside might be new to powerlifting altogether (like I was when I started Westside), and unless that person had some sort of a background squatting and deadlifting, they are going to increase these lifts at the same rate as someone who had never trained before, while their bench will increase at a relatively slower pace due to having some training experience in that lift. Now this is just a theory, and I don't know it to be true, but it is all I can come up with. All my lifts except deadlifting have increased over 100 lbs, and the deadlift is close to 100 lbs since taking up Westside 7 months ago.

B
 
As someone who is NOW about 85% westside. I can tell you that it does work. In the past when i was 25 % westside i knew it worked, but what i was doing was working as well. My problem is like raw benching. I box squat now until suit time, but in th epast i squatted cause i liked to squat. I didnt do everything mainly because westside to me wasnt fun. And i like to have fun when i train. I am not a robot. I dont do shit cause someone says i should. I do shit when i want too. And if i feel it will benifit me. I used to squat every week. But i would make better gains if i box squtted for a month or two then went back to squatting. So why not box squat all the time? Well because i loved sqautting. As of now i have maxed out once since last summer and am dying to max again. But i will wait. I am trying westside and giving it a chance. And yes i see improvement. I can box squat 1 inch below paralell with no wraps and belt loose almost what i was maxing a year and ahlf ago.

Tell your coach it works. Give him email adressses to look at to prove. But after you give him the sites say nothing more to him about it. BUt just do your training that your doing. And dont worry abou thim. Your total is whats important , and after your coach is gone your total will remain. Your building a base now, dont let him fuck that up cause he is a throw back retro powerlifter from the past!
 
Brian, I think your theory is very valid. In the same vein, even if most people have squatted and Deadlifted (I Know I had) the vast majority have never done GM's, Box Squats, Pull throughts, etc... while most have still done Incline, Decline, CloseGrips, Partials in the BP.

-Zulu
 
Questions

Sumo deadlift will help your squat. That's the whole idea behind conjugate training. Working the same muscles a different way will help.

You can definitely do dumbell presses, just do them for reps and only do them every 5 and 6 week.

I really don't like know it all trainers, or other gym members that say to do something else other than what I know works. It's too easy for them to get that little piece of paper that says trainer. I really like it when they weigh all of 150# and tell me not to use chains.

Last, I train westside because I know it works and because I enjoy training this way. I am completely westside in training, chains, bands, extra workouts, sled pulling the whole nine yards. If someone says they have something better, ask them for proof. How many gyms have anyone that can bench 600#!!! Not many!! That's proof enough for me.
 
Advantage to this sumo style of lifting?

Also (don´t kill me) what exactly is this "Westside." Perhaps someone could drop me a link.

all the best
 
update on my friends opinion of westside... "i dont know whether to laugh because its a big crock, of if its no better than the average weightlifting routine" he still thinks its retarted.. nothin i can do to change his mind
 
I still do not understand all of Westside...and I study it a lot. I don't understand truly why it works...I just know that it does.

www.elitefitnesssystems.com

B True
 
There are several components to strength:


Neural adaptation
Hypertrophy
Training your weaknesses

Westside incorporates all of these without overtraining.

That's the very basic gist of how I understand it.

-Zulu
 
he is a personal trainer and taking kineisiology classes at his college i think. he said that hypertrophy training was deemed as one of the worst training methods in 94 or something. i m not even going to bother with it, if he doesnt like it, then he doesnt, i'll be making gains while he isnt
 
He's correct. But the difference is that with WS you do NOT GO TO FAILURE. That makes all the difference.

But I guess your gains will speak for themselves anyway :)

-Zulu
 
so far so good... 10 rep max is up a quick 5lbs. by the end of the program i should be getting around a 150 10 rep max.. where my old one was a hard, 140. Havent really done anything with higher weights cause by the time im finished with 10,8,6 reps im burnt out for the 4 and 2. But everything feels fine. i gotta see how my shoulder feels tomorrow, cause i hurt it biking (dont know if it was from when i fell, or just from broncoing too much or landing weird.)
 
Very nice :) How long have you been with the program?

And out of curiosity, how are your other lifts doing? I mean, is only your bench going up and everything else is stagnant?

-Zulu
 
its only a 3 week program... my other lifts are doing fine, havent gone heeavy on them in 2 weeks, only heavy sldl, and some box squats with like 50-60% of my max.. alot of my leg work is going into preparation for my westside program, getting used to different exercises and there form..etc
 
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