Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

WELL ITS ABOUT FUCKING TIME>> Some REAL Immigration reform

milo hobgoblin

New member
Next stop repealing the bullshit ass fucking 14th amendment.



Border crackdown set to pass House

Living in U.S. illegally would be federal crime

By Rachel L. Swarns
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE

December 14, 2005

WASHINGTON – The Republican-controlled House is poised to pass one of the toughest border security measures in more than a decade, cracking down on illegal immigrants and their employers and defying President Bush's call for a comprehensive bill that would grant millions of illegal immigrants already in the United States a right to work here temporarily.

The measure, expected to clear the House this week, would for the first time make it a federal crime to live in the United States illegally. That provision would turn millions of immigrants into felons, ineligible to win any legal status. Currently, living in the United States without a document such a visa or a green card is a violation of civil immigration law, not criminal law.


Advertisement



The bill would also broaden the immigrant-smuggling statute to embrace those who shield or offer support to illegal immigrants. Offenders, including employees of social service agencies and church groups, could face up to five years in prison.

The legislation would require the mandatory detention, until removal from the country, of non-Mexican immigrants who enter the United States illegally; would increase financing for local sheriffs in border states to allow them to detain illegal immigrants; and would toughen penalties for employers who hire them.

The proposal, which would require the Department of Homeland Security to expand greatly a fledgling system intended to verify the immigration status of all the nation's employees, has been hailed by many conservatives in Congress as vital to combating illegal immigration and tightening the border with Mexico.

The bill was approved Thursday by the House Judiciary Committee. The committee chairman, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said it would "help restore the integrity of our nation's borders and re-establish respect for our laws by holding violators accountable, including human traffickers, employers who hire illegal aliens and alien gang members who terrorize communities."

But the bill has touched off a furor among some business leaders and moderate Republicans, who support Bush's plan to grant temporary legal status to the 11 million illegal immigrants believed to be living in the United States. In recent weeks, a leader of the Chamber of Commerce and 15 Republican moderates have signed letters to senior Republicans in the House, calling anew for enactment of such a guest worker program.

With most analysts predicting that the leadership's measure will pass in the House tomorrow, many of its critics are pinning their hopes on the Senate, which is expected to take up a comprehensive immigration bill next year. Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., who sponsored a bipartisan bill including a guest worker provision, said the leadership's bill deeply frustrated him even though he favored strong border enforcement.

"We have a massive work force out there that is undocumented, and we've got to deal with them," Flake said. "No one is suggesting that we deport everyone who is here illegally. So that leaves us in a quandary: Do we pretend they don't exist? Or do we bring them out of the shadows?"

"Hopefully, the Senate will act responsibly and pass a guest worker plan. I wish we were doing it here," he said.

In a swing through border states last month, Bush said any legislation should include his guest worker proposal, which would allow those currently in the United States illegally to work here legally for a few years before being required to return home and, if they chose, apply for re-entry. He dismissed concerns raised by some Republicans who say his plan amounts to amnesty for lawbreakers.

"Amnesty would say to other illegal aliens, 'Come, and you can come into America and get citizenship automatically,' " Bush said. "No, I'm for a bill that strengthens our border by providing people with a tamper-proof identity card to let them work in America for jobs Americans won't do, on a temporary basis, and then go back to their country."

Conservatives still view the plan with suspicion, however. And with the midterm election looming next year, some Republicans are reluctant to support a proposal that they say remains unpopular with voters.

Many Democrats, including Rep. Howard Berman of Van Nuys, say conservatives are supporting the House bill to gain political points, not out of any belief that it will become law.

"There's a lot of anger out there," Berman said, "so rather than solving the problem, they're playing to the cheap seats."

Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas, who supports the bill, said that there was indeed anger and that conservatives in Congress seemed to be more in touch with it than did the White House.

"Our constituents are berserk with fury over the unprotected borders," he said. "The borders have been entirely unprotected for far too long."

Of fellow Republicans, Culberson said, "We've got a tiny little handful that want to pass guest worker legislation."

"But until we get the borders under control," he added, "we'll never win the war on terror and it's pointless to discuss the guest worker program."

Erin Healy, a White House spokeswoman, said the House bill included security measures that were "a vital component to immigration reform." But she said the Bush administration would push for broader immigration legislation.
 
About time.

Currently, 1/5 of the federal prison population are illegal immigrants that have committed various crimes.

And people try and say that this isnt a problem.
 
Why do Mexicans get preferential treatment???

" The legislation would require the mandatory detention, until removal from the country, of non-Mexican immigrants who enter the United States illegally;"
 
How is this going to help. The three largest groups of immigrants are 1. Mexicans 2. Orientals and 3. Europeans.
 
I like the idea but even if it clears the house and senate Bush will veto it.

The RNC has too much at stake with appeasing the latino voter base.
 
WODIN said:
I like the idea but even if it clears the house and senate Bush will veto it.

The RNC has too much at stake with appeasing the latino voter base.
LOL and the DNC doesnt?

Hahahahahaha.
 
pintoca said:
Why do Mexicans get preferential treatment???

" The legislation would require the mandatory detention, until removal from the country, of non-Mexican immigrants who enter the United States illegally;"
Ya, I change my mind.

Political pieces of shit.
 
Im thinking I wanna win the Lotto and use the money to purchase every square inch of land just above the Mexican border in California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. Then, I will build my own wall on the edge of my land.

Its private property, right?

Ill actually start taking donations now.
 
75th said:
LOL and the DNC doesnt?

Hahahahahaha.
The President is a Republican, hence the relivance of my statement.
The RNC is making new headway into the latino community, again relivance.
 
WODIN said:
I like the idea but even if it clears the house and senate Bush will veto it.

The RNC has too much at stake with appeasing the latino voter base.

I thought the exact same thing.

Also, the RNC depends heavily upon money from corporations that either indirectly or directly rely on cheap labor. Hence, the push for the amnesty program in his (Bush) first term.
 
If Bush vetos this bill the poltical backlash would be horrendous..

because the ONLY reason he would be doing it is to pander to the Latino voter base and corporations looking for cheap illegal labor there is NO other reason.. and the Average American voter wikll find both of those reasons unacceptable.

A bunch of Mexican border trash doesnt threaten my job in computer science but it SURE AS FUCK threatens every LEGAL Latino who is an unskilled worker. You would think they would rally the strongest against influxes of cheap labor. But these dumbfucks want more illegals to enter? They are the ones that gethit the hardest.. I have to suffer the secondary effects on reduced public services, decaying infrastructure and horrible schooling for my kids because the fuckign illegals cost us so muich god damn money.

Fuck this just infuriates me.
 
I still don't understand the phrase "jobs Americans won't do".
 
Because it doesnt mean anything. There is nothing to understand.

Americans have been doing those jobs for hundreds of years.. and there are always peole willing to work. But the immigrant populations have conviced themselevs and the liberals that they do all the horrid work that "whitey" wont..

Even Vincente Fox (Mexicos CURRENT Spanish dictator) thet Mexicans do the jobs even blacks wont do.

No job is below anyone..
 
pintoca said:
Why do Mexicans get preferential treatment???

" The legislation would require the mandatory detention, until removal from the country, of non-Mexican immigrants who enter the United States illegally;"

(1) We all really like their food.
(2) They're our neighbors.
(3) They're hard workers.
(4) It's a loophole, making the law largely ineffective.
 
keep in mind that bush cant be re-elected this time around so why should he care…. it could be a parting gift (good or bad ) it wont affect his position ..I would vote it in if where bush then my party nominee could campaign on it ..leaning to the side of the most votes of coarse
 
It was a crime if you live in the States illigaly anyways


btw - all you americans are immigrants here. Dont forget that the Native Indians are the real americans and all you or your ancestors came in recent time from all the other continents. This country is built on the immigrants back
 
pintoca said:
Why do Mexicans get preferential treatment???

" The legislation would require the mandatory detention, until removal from the country, of non-Mexican immigrants who enter the United States illegally;"

They make good Burritos and fajitas and you fuck with them, they'll send you the Cupacabra...lol
 
Pandora_ said:
btw - all you americans are immigrants here. Dont forget that the Native Indians are the real americans and all you or your ancestors came in recent time from all the other continents. This country is built on the immigrants back
100% garbage.

This country was built by WHITE PROTESTANTS. The Native Americans who were here were savages who did not even possess a written language. They'd have built nothing if they had 1,000 years.

The immigrants who came after the country was established did not build it, rather they operated within what the WHITE PROTESTANTS had already built.

These immigrants thrived, because they worked in a system created by WHITE PROTESTANTS. Those immigrants' home countries were the result of their own culture, and they were shit, which is why immigrants came here in the first place.

We must never forget our nation's heritage.
 
Immigration to the US keeps Mexico going. Mexicans in the states send back billions of dollars to Mexico, and the allure of the US means that dispossessed Mexcans march on the Rio Grande for the redress of grievances, rather than Mexico City.

Mexico is a failed state, another Spanish colonial disaster.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
100% garbage.

This country was built by WHITE PROTESTANTS. The Native Americans who were here were savages who did not even possess a written language. They'd have built nothing if they had 1,000 years.
The immigrants who came after the country was established did not build it, rather they operated within what the WHITE PROTESTANTS had already built.

These immigrants thrived, because they worked in a system created by WHITE PROTESTANTS. Those immigrants' home countries were the result of their own culture, and they were shit, which is why immigrants came here in the first place.

We must never forget our nation's heritage.

so, if they were "savages" (which all of us were at some point of time) are you gonna deny them what is rightfully theirs?
Anyways.....not all of us came here because our countries sucked. My people, when they came, our country was doing perfect - jobs for everyone, plenty of money for everyone, time for having a life....thats why I dont understand why the fuck they immigrated.
Some of the americans feel that they are too good to do some sort of "low" jobs, so immigrants are taking over them and working hard at it too. Thats what I ment by "America is built on the immigrants back"
 
jafo said:
keep in mind that bush cant be re-elected this time around so why should he care…. it could be a parting gift (good or bad ) it wont affect his position ..I would vote it in if where bush then my party nominee could campaign on it ..leaning to the side of the most votes of coarse

Bush isn't behind this bill, and it doesn't reflect his views.
 
Pandora_ said:
so, if they were "savages" (which all of us were at some point of time) are you gonna deny them what is rightfully theirs?

They were savages in 1500, when WHITE PROTESTANTS had developed sophisticated societies. They were not the equal of the colonists. Being there first does not make something "rightfully theirs".

WHITE PROTESTANTS arrived and took it, not because they were mean spirited, but because they had a higher standard of living, a better educated populace, and a desire to build something greater than a buffalo hunting ground.

Anyways.....not all of us came here because our countries sucked. My people, when they came, our country was doing perfect - jobs for everyone, plenty of money for everyone, time for having a life....thats why I dont understand why the fuck they immigrated.

This is absurd on its face. No one leaves something that is perfect. They just don't; the King of England didn't leae to come here...it was the dispossessed. Same with "your people", whoever they are.

America receives more immigrants than EVERYOTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH COMBINED, so the nation built by WHITE PROTESTANTS remains the best on Earth for the highest number of people.

Some of the americans feel that they are too good to do some sort of "low" jobs, so immigrants are taking over them and working hard at it too. Thats what I ment by "America is built on the immigrants back"

Thanks for clearing that up. As long as we understand that WHITE PROTESTANTS, not "your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" built this country.
 
Mr. dB said:
Bush isn't behind this bill, and it doesn't reflect his views.

I know ...just thought it would be funny to see happen due to the fact that it wouldnt affect his election and it WOULD be a campaign issue that was hard fought over ...imagine the smutt adds and the back stabbing
 
Pandora.. you're a fucking idiot.

1. When whites landed on these shores.. Indian tribes did not have a national sovereignty in place. There was no such thing as an "illegal alien" We fought wars over land.. purchased, traded.. by whatever means we became the "owners" of this land. And we used it to develop the greatest , most economically productive nation on Earth. (compare our GNP with ALL of Europe)
In any case what happened 4-500 years ago has NOTHING to do with the current issues surrounding illegal immigration.

2. Whites have always done every fucked up, dirty job this country has required.. mining, farming, cleaning, railroad work, lumberwork.. whether or not we hired non skilled immigrants to ALSO do these jobs by no means implies we arent willing to do them... but if I have a college degree and can actually speak the language.. what career path should I pick? Is it white Americas fault that some of these immigrants (i.e. Hispanics) REFUSE to assimilate and learn the language thereby placing them at the lowest socioeconomic group? If you knew the first god damn thing about history.. you god damn well know there were just as many whites serving as indentured servants (read :slaves) as there were blacks living as slaves. So that bullshit arguement about a country built on slave labor is exactly that.. bullshit.

If African slave labor is capable of building great nations then explian why there are 25 MILLION SLAVES IN AFRICA AND ITS STILL THE MOST FUCKED UP CONTINENT ON THE PLANET?

Fuck you're so god damn stupid it hurts.

3. The vast majority of Asians come here legally.. they gain fluency within a few years, get an education and assimilate culturally.. they BECOME AMERICANS. This is why they suceed where so many others fail. They dont bitch, scream or cry racism when things dont go their way. they fix it and move on.

4. White protestants ( I would expand this to Most Northern European immigrants) did make this country. You can argue till your blue in the face about slave labor, immigrant labor BLAH BLAH BLAH.. but Mexico uses THAT SAME LABOR POOL.. AND THEY ARE A MISERABLE FAILURE.. SO IT MUST NOT BE THE LABOR.. IT MUST BE THE INFRASTRUCTURE.. AND WHO LAID THE FOUNDATION FOR THAT INFRASTRUCTURE? Well it certainly wasnt uneducated immigrants from south of the border. I grew up overseas.. and every island nation Ive been too that was settled by the Spanish is FUCKED, corrupt little impoverished shitgholes JUST LIKE MEXICO. Nothing the Spanish EVER conquered has turned out worth a damn.. thier own homeland is finally coming around because they managed to move away from involving catholicism and corruption in every god damn thing they do... all their leftovers are still pulling that shit.

6. Illegal immigration is fuckign drainign us.. California is paying over 10 BILLION dollars ayear to support these fuckign leeches.. crime in their neighborhoods is rampant.. welfare, fraud (read: identity theft).. oh that MUST be whiteys fault , right Pandora?

Dont like it? Too fucking bad.. because that simply IS. Your revisionist bullshit isnt going to change history, nor will it make shit countries great.
 
MattTheSkywalker and Milo = Racists.

I cant wait for gjohnson to show up on this thread.
 
lol...Milo you are talking to me like I am not white and attacking you. I am white European. Grew up there and came here when I was 20. I didnt even once mention slavery or african people. I am just talking from what I see is happening in Michigan. I do know history, I do know that americans worked very hard to build this country. And no, I am NOT aproving illigal immigrants and the ones that are too stubborn to try to fit in here and learn the language. Me, as being a immigrant, I despise them. IMO, you (meaning the immigrants) cant pretend like you are back in your own country and talk how americans are weird or stupid and undereducated. That just dont fly. On a side note - USA is going steadily to become a shit country itself if the goverment doesnt do anything to stop all the lay-offs and bancropcies.



Matt - people that left my country at the time when it was just perfect were uneducated people from the villages high on the mountains and even today they are ignorant asking if we (the ones that came 30 years after them) know what a remote control is or how an A/C works.
 
Pandora_ said:
On a side note - USA is going steadily to become a shit country itself if the goverment doesnt do anything to stop all the lay-offs and bancropcies.

Its not the governments job to worry about layoffs and bankruptcies.
 
Pandora_ said:
whose is it? The business owners?
Considering they are the ones who give people their jobs, then yeah.

If you want the government having a big hand in employment and personal finances, I think a one way ticket to North Korea is $1,100 these days.
 
Uhh.. it doesnt matter Pandora.

There isnt a SINGLE passage in our constitution granting the federal government the function to address layoffs or bankruptcies.

Maybe I am being too harsh assuming you as a fairly recent immigrant (your writing style and attitude seem to imply as much) that you would have even a basic understanding of the philosophies behind the document.

The constitution is a document or charter if you will.. An agreement between the people and those chosen to represent them STRICTLY limiting the powers they wield to the functions clearly outlined within the document.

Power outside that document.. simply does not exist.. nor should it ever be mentioned. Their existence as an entity (the government) is bordered by the functions granted by that charter.

NOWHERE does it say they may act as a situational problem solver.. NOWHERE does it say they may redistribute wealth..

BUT It does say VERY clearly one of their PRIMARY FUNCTIONS IS TO PROTECT OUR BORDERS.

Are we CLEAR ON THIS?
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Immigration to the US keeps Mexico going. Mexicans in the states send back billions of dollars to Mexico, and the allure of the US means that dispossessed Mexcans march on the Rio Grande for the redress of grievances, rather than Mexico City.

Mexico is a failed state, another Spanish colonial disaster.

Can you support that claim with numbers?

What percentage of Mexicans have become illegal aliens in the USA? What percentage of the Mexican GDP comes from cash sent home from Mexican nationals working in the USA? I'd venture to guess that both numbers are under 1%.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Uhh.. it doesnt matter Pandora.

There isnt a SINGLE passage in our constitution granting the federal government the function to address layoffs or bankruptcies.

Maybe I am being too harsh assuming you as a fairly recent immigrant (your writing style and attitude seem to imply as much) that you would have even a basic understanding of the philosophies behind the document.

The constitution is a document or charter if you will.. An agreement between the people and those chosen to represent them STRICTLY limiting the powers they wield to the functions clearly outlined within the document.

Power outside that document.. simply does not exist.. nor should it ever be mentioned. Their existence as an entity (the government) is bordered by the functions granted by that charter.

NOWHERE does it say they may act as a situational problem solver.. NOWHERE does it say they may redistribute wealth..

BUT It does say VERY clearly one of their PRIMARY FUNCTIONS IS TO PROTECT OUR BORDERS.

Are we CLEAR ON THIS?


Pandora, just put it this way.

I use this line alot...

The government isnt here to provide for you. The government is here to create an environment where you can provide for yourself.
 
Mr. dB said:
Can you support that claim with numbers?

What percentage of Mexicans have become illegal aliens in the USA? What percentage of the Mexican GDP comes from cash sent home from Mexican nationals working in the USA? I'd venture to guess that both numbers are under 1%.

neither is under 1%. The first number may be a single digit percentage. The second number, I'll look. I suspect you over estimate the GDP of mexico.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Uhh.. it doesnt matter Pandora.

There isnt a SINGLE passage in our constitution granting the federal government the function to address layoffs or bankruptcies.

Maybe I am being too harsh assuming you as a fairly recent immigrant (your writing style and attitude seem to imply as much) that you would have even a basic understanding of the philosophies behind the document.

The constitution is a document or charter if you will.. An agreement between the people and those chosen to represent them STRICTLY limiting the powers they wield to the functions clearly outlined within the document.

Power outside that document.. simply does not exist.. nor should it ever be mentioned. Their existence as an entity (the government) is bordered by the functions granted by that charter.

NOWHERE does it say they may act as a situational problem solver.. NOWHERE does it say they may redistribute wealth..

BUT It does say VERY clearly one of their PRIMARY FUNCTIONS IS TO PROTECT OUR BORDERS.

Are we CLEAR ON THIS?

yeap.

and thank you 75th.

I wanna understand this too - where is the pressure coming from so we send jobs overseas and to Mexico to save on labor and permanently lay off people? I thought that its not solely the CEOs of those companies
 
Mr. dB said:
Can you support that claim with numbers?

What percentage of Mexicans have become illegal aliens in the USA? What percentage of the Mexican GDP comes from cash sent home from Mexican nationals working in the USA? I'd venture to guess that both numbers are under 1%.

Heres some good info I found:

Economic costs of illegal immigration

The economic and social consequences of illegal immigration across the 1,940 mile long America-Mexico border are staggering.

An average of 10,000 illegal aliens cross the border every day - over 3 million per year. A third will be caught and many of them immediately will try again. About half of those remaining will become permanent U.S. residents (3,500 per day).

Currently there are an estimated 9 to 11 million illegals in the U.S., double the 1994 level. A quarter-million illegal aliens from the Middle-east currently live in the U.S, and a growing number are entering by crossing the Mexican border.

FAIR research suggests that "between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers. Some native workers lose not just wages but their jobs through immigrant competition. An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration; the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year." The National Research Council, part of the National Academy of Sciences, found in 1997 that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000.80.

80% of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals. Drug cartels spend a half-billion dollars per year bribing Mexico's corrupt generals and police officials, and armed confrontations between the Mexican army and U.S. Border Patrol agents are a real threat. There have been 118 documented incursions by the Mexican military over the last five years.

Illegal aliens have cost billions of taxpayer-funded dollars for medical services. Dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico Arizona, and California, have been forced to close or face bankruptcy because of federally-mandated programs requiring free emergency room services to illegal aliens. Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year incarcerating illegal alien criminals.

Immigration is a net drain on the economy; corporate interests reap the benefits of cheap labor, while taxpayers pay the infrastructural cost. FAIR research shows "the net annual cost of immigration has been estimated at between $67 and $87 billion a year. The National Academy of Sciences found that the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. Even studies claiming some modest overall gain for the economy from immigration ($1 to $10 billion a year) have found that it is outweighed by the fiscal cost ($15 to $20 billion a year) to native taxpayers."

"In the NAFTA era, a staggering 87 percent of Mexico's imports go to the United States, while Mexicans living in the United States send home more than $8 billion annually. Fox has said he considers his constituency to include the 22 million to 24 million Mexicans and Mexican-Americans in the United States. Mexican candidates now make campaign stops in U.S. cities like Los Angeles, Phoenix and Fresno, Calif." (Mexico's muddle, Ruben Navarrette Jr., March 26, 2003) (That last point killed me...)

For more information, see The Washington Times article and series Chaos along the border, October 6, 2002, the FAIR reports Immigration and the Economy, Immigration Lowers Wages for American Workers, and the article Record amount of remittances sent from US to Mexico.
Remittances

$60 billion dollars are earned by illegal aliens in the U.S. each year. One of Mexico's largest revenue streams (after exports and oil sales) consists of money sent home by legal immigrants and illegal aliens working in the U.S. Economists say this will help Mexico reduce its $17.8 billion defecit and may bolster the peso. $10 billion dollars (as of 2003) are sent back to Mexico annually, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, reported in an Associated Press article, up $800 million from the previous year. ($9 billion dollars were previously sent back annually, according to a September 25, 2002 NPR report). That figure equals what Mexico earns annually from tourism. This is a massive transfer of wealth from America - essentially from America's displaced working poor - to Mexico.

Education costs

The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states $7.4 billion annually—enough to buy a computer for every junior high student nationwide.


'Anchor baby' Hospital costs

Hospital The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."

It's estimated there may be over 300,000 anchor babies born each year in the U.S. Thus, illegal alien mothers now add more to U.S. population each year than immigration from all sources in an average year before 1965. These babies are called anchor babies because they act as an anchor that pulls the illegal alien mother and a host of other relatives into permanent U.S. residency.

FAIR estimates "there are currently between 287,000 and 363,000 children born to illegal aliens each year. This figure is based on the crude birth rate of the total foreign-born population (33 births per 1000) and the size of the illegal alien population (between 8.7 and 11 million). In 1994, California paid for 74,987 deliveries to illegal alien mothers, at a total cost of $215.2 million (an average of $2,842 per delivery). Illegal alien mothers accounted for 36 percent of all Medi-Cal funded births in California that year."

FAIR research shows that "the Urban Institute estimates that the cost of educating illegal alien children in the nation's seven states with the highest concentration of illegal aliens was $3.1 billion in 1993 (which, with the growth of their population to 1.3 million, would be more like $5 billion in 2000). This estimate does not take into account the additional costs of bilingual education or other special educational needs."

In a recent year in Colorado, the state's emergency Medicaid program paid an estimated $30 million in hospital and physician delivery costs for about 6,000 illegal immigrant mothers - average of $5,000 per baby. Those 6,000 births to illegal aliens represent 40% of the births paid for by Medicaid in Colorado. Those 6,000 babies immediately became U.S. citizens and qualified for full Medicaid services, with a cost yet to be tabulated.

An illegal alien mother only has to say she is "undocumented" in order to receive immediate - and free - medical care.

Medical care to illegal aliens

"Mexican ambulance drivers are driving their hospital patients who can't pay for medical care in Mexico, to facilities in the United States. They know that the federal Emergency Medical Act mandates that U.S. hospitals with emergency-room services must treat anyone who requires care, including illegal aliens.

Medical service for Americans in affected communities is being severely damaged as hospitals absorb more than $200 million in unreimbursed costs. Some emergency rooms have shut down because they cannot afford to stay open. Local tax-paying Americans are either denied medical care or have to wait in long lines for service as the illegals flood the facilities. In California, the losses are calculated to be about $79 million, with $74 million in Texas, $31 million in Arizona, and $6 million in New Mexico."1

These costs are staggering. The Cochise County, Arizona Health Department spends as much as 30 percent of its annual $9 million budget on illegal aliens.3 The Copper Queen Hospital in Bisbee, Arizona, has spent $200,000 in uncompensated services out of a net operating budget of $300,000.3 The University Medical Center in Tucson may lose as much as $10 million and the Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center, also in Tucson, has lost $1 million in the first quarter of fiscal 2002.3

As noted above, in a recent year in Colorado, the state's emergency Medicaid program paid an estimated $30 million in hospital and physician delivery costs for about 6,000 illegal immigrant mothers - average of $5,000 per baby.

The Gwinnett, Georgia, Hospital System expects has established a $34 million reserve to cover its anticipated outlay for illegal aliens in 2003. Los Angeles Times columnist Ronald Brownstein wrote in his December 30, 2003 column that the 'Health-Care Storm Brewing in California Threatens to Swamp U.S... the impending Medicaid disaster is not a problem the states can handle alone; their budget shortfalls are too big.'2

"The General Accounting Office traveled to southern Arizona to study the impact of illegal immigrants on Arizona and other border state hospitals. In 2002, three hospitals located in Cochise County funded more than $1 million in uncompensated health care costs... The Florida Hospital Association surveyed 28 hospitals and found that health care for illegal aliens totaled at least $40 million in 2002."2

Illegal aliens cost $10 billion in 2002

A new Center for Immigration Studies report was released in August, 2004 that shows that illegal immigration cost $10 billion in 2002.4 Based on Census Bureau data, the study estimates that households headed by illegal aliens used $10 billion more in government services than they paid in taxes in 2002. These figures are only for the federal government; costs at the state and local level are also likely to be significant. The study also finds that if illegals were given amnesty, the fiscal deficit at the federal level would grow to nearly $29 billion. Among the findings:

* Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.

* Among the largest federal costs: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

* If illegal aliens were legalized and began to pay taxes and use services like legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual fiscal deficit at the federal level would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total federal deficit of $29 billion.

* Because many of the costs are due to their U.S.-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth, barring illegals themselves from federal programs will not significantly reduce costs.

* Although they create a net drain on the federal government, the average illegal household pays more than $4,200 a year in federal taxes, for a total of nearly $16 billion.

* However, they impose annual costs of more than $26.3 billion, or about $6,950 per illegal household.

* About 43 percent, or $7 billion, of the federal taxes illegals pay go to Social Security and Medicare.
 
The states should use the National Guard and post them along the border and view the illegal immigration as an invasion by a foreign country (I think you get where I am going with this) By using the National Guard in this manner without Federalizing them I believe they can avoid the Posse Comatatis (sp) that prevents the Military from being used as to enforce civil law.
 
Pandora_ said:
so, if they were "savages" (which all of us were at some point of time) are you gonna deny them what is rightfully theirs?
Anyways.....not all of us came here because our countries sucked. My people, when they came, our country was doing perfect - jobs for everyone, plenty of money for everyone, time for having a life....thats why I dont understand why the fuck they immigrated.
Some of the americans feel that they are too good to do some sort of "low" jobs, so immigrants are taking over them and working hard at it too. Thats what I ment by "America is built on the immigrants back"


Actually native Americans had no concept of land ownership
 
AristotleBC said:
Actually native Americans had no concept of land ownership

this may sound fucked up. but we should have taken them all out when we had the chance too. Or at least deported them.

too much government spending for reparation type stuff. They dont have any motivation if they make 5k/year, just get lazy and into drugs and alcohol.

could I be banned for saying that?
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
100% garbage.

This country was built by WHITE PROTESTANTS. The Native Americans who were here were savages who did not even possess a written language. They'd have built nothing if they had 1,000 years.

The immigrants who came after the country was established did not build it, rather they operated within what the WHITE PROTESTANTS had already built.

These immigrants thrived, because they worked in a system created by WHITE PROTESTANTS. Those immigrants' home countries were the result of their own culture, and they were shit, which is why immigrants came here in the first place.

We must never forget our nation's heritage.

True to an extent. Given that, how do you determine which "white protestants" living in this country NOW are part of the immigrant population that built the infrastructure of this country. How much do you think slavery contributed to the building of this country?
 
Ffactor said:
True to an extent. Given that, how do you determine which "white protestants" living in this country NOW are part of the immigrant population that built the infrastructure of this country. How much do you think slavery contributed to the building of this country?

I don't see why any of that matters to anyone unless they have an ax to grind.
 
Does it matter? Descendants of both the slaves and the whites who built this country are all citizens as were the parents, grandparents.. so on and so on.

They all pay taxes and contribute.. and are here LEGALLY.

All these illegals have no social security numbers, no insurance.. the ONLY tax they pay is the measly sales tax which barely funds our crumbling infrastructure.

They are leeches and need to be gone.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Does it matter? Descendants of both the slaves and the whites who built this country are all citizens as were the parents, grandparents.. so on and so on.

They all pay taxes and contribute.. and are here LEGALLY.

All these illegals have no social security numbers, no insurance.. the ONLY tax they pay is the measly sales tax which barely funds our crumbling infrastructure.

They are leeches and need to be gone.


Apparently there was an article in the newspaper today about UC college students. They are suing the UC school system because they are out of state and pay out of state tuition while the UC school system has granted many illegal immigrants instate tuition.

My dad was pissed at that when he read it.
 
Ffactor said:
Its a part of history. What ax r u talking about nugga?

Here is another part of history that is too often under-told: the white man eliminated slavery.

Alone among the races on Earth, whitey has banished this practice as an institution. Woo hoo go whitey.
 
I don't believe in that law unless I see it in action!! Personally I think it's too late. I'm against giving that temporary work permit to these people. That money is going out of the nation. If they want a country like this, they are free to build their own. If they don't have enough brain to do it, that's not our fucking problem.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Does it matter? Descendants of both the slaves and the whites who built this country are all citizens as were the parents, grandparents.. so on and so on.

They all pay taxes and contribute.. and are here LEGALLY.

All these illegals have no social security numbers, no insurance.. the ONLY tax they pay is the measly sales tax which barely funds our crumbling infrastructure.

They are leeches and need to be gone.

Yes sir, but the law does not apply to Mexicans who make up the LARGEST portion of illegal immigrants. Hence my original question, how will this help sir?
 
there is too much political bullshit around this problem. The solution is easy and simple. Deploy the national guard on the border, build a TALL electrified wall, deport immediately every single illegal immigrant. ALSO, review background and history of legal immigrants. Fine companies and people hiring illegal immigrants.

The answer of a politician would be "that would be too expensive". BULL. Only in the state of CA, $10.5 Billion of tax money from Americans was spent in help and aid for illegal immigrants. Sum a similar amount of around 10 states already infected with this criminal aliens. Not to mention the moral and social cost of having these weird people bringing a nasty culture inside this great nation.

Now would you say "too expensive"?
 
Top Bottom