Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I just heard on CNN that the U.S. is asking Israel to withdraw from the Palestinian territory that they now are occupying with troops. We need to leave Israel alone! I am sick and tired of us kissing Arab ass to help protect a totally bullshit alliance that we have with certain arab nations. These nations certainly are not our friends. Israel has lived with the horror of terrorism for a long time, and they retaliate with strong force. Israel is our only "true" ally in the middle east. Instead of kissing arab ass at the expense of Israel, we need to let Israel do whatever they deem necessary to protect themselves.
We need to leave Israel alone!
- Thread starter BigGuns2
- Start date
The Varnsen
New member
For each israelian dead they kill back 5...
Good idea Doc but the whole prob is because they are not as smart as we are to exclude religion from politics. The seperation of church and state is the single most productive thing about us. As soon as you have religion, you are compromising your politics and integrity because nobody is really sure of what the real reason is that you voted the way you did. The entire problem is because of religion and who wants the prestige of owning the land jesus walked. They wouldn't take Afghaniwhogivesashit. As for Isreal killing more than they lose, its called a deterrent and those scumbag terrorists are too fucking uncaring about their own people to give a shit, more proof they are just in it to kill and hurt people. If someone told me they would kill me and my family if I hit them, I wouldn't risk it. They do not care. .02
Punschkrapfen
New member
you are aware that BigGuns2 meant in the other way round?monkey_love said:
Kahn said:
Kahn, I'm not trying to flame you, but I think our politics/politicians suck, not because they're separate, but because our government is corrupt, and lies are the basis of whoever is campaigning for offices. You're right about religion being the problem for them. They will never be able to separate religion from their politics. It's been that way for centuries.
monkey_love said:
Which is what puts us on their most hated list also, we support Israel, every country in the world can see this, but until the attacks, comments about it were muted. Now, our government needs to admit the obvious, and step out of the fray. Instead of saying that they only hate us for our civilization, it's a lot more to it than just that.
Jimsbbc
New member
I agree that the Mid-East hates us bc we support Israel. I personally think that Israel is doing the right thing by retaliating 5fold. With out their military strength scaring those nations shitless, they would have been decimated a long time ago.
The Mid-East is not like the West. They do not have control over themselves, and they do not have high regard for human life unless it is their own. They are going to be killing each other relentlessly until there is a war and Israel drives them out and annihilates them completely (US backed or not).
The Mid-East is not like the West. They do not have control over themselves, and they do not have high regard for human life unless it is their own. They are going to be killing each other relentlessly until there is a war and Israel drives them out and annihilates them completely (US backed or not).
Wfabrizio
New member
Yes! Let's have Israel draw us even deeper into this whole mess! Vote me in! I want to see weekly terrorist bombings here in the US just like in Israel! You know, we can learn a lot on how to defeat terrorism from the Israeli's considering that they have managed to eradicate it from their nation.
Yes, they can teach us a lot can't they?
Yes, they can teach us a lot can't they?
Wfabrizio
New member
Weapon X said:
Haha...I'm an anti-semite? I'm simply stating the facts. Israel's war on terrorism has only created more terrorism. Even though the US doesn't share a border we still were dealt an attack worse than anything Israel has ever seen. We are more vulnerable than Israel ever can be in regards to terrorism.
talonracer
New member
How is it that people who lament over the plight of the Palistinians convieniently forget that the Arab countries have treated the Palistinians FAR WORSE than Israel does. Particularly Jordan. i mean read up on it, its shocking and hipocritical. Oh by the way can anyone tell me the ONLY country in the middle east where an Arab can vote??
Wfabrizio
New member
talonracer said:
I honestly could care less except that the US and several European nations have now been drawn into this whole stupid conflict.
My point still stands correct. We have nothing to learn from the Israeli's in regards to fighting terrorism. Their approach has very apparently made things much worse for them. The terrorist attacks have intensified in Israel. If we follow Israel's lead then we will encounter the exact same repercussions.
That is not anti-semitic. It's simply reality. Plain as daylight.
S
Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)
Guest
Wfabrizio said:
Not one El Al plane has been hijacked in more than 30 years. You're telling me that we have nothing to learn from them?
Wfabrizio said:
So, you're telling me that you're not biased? Sure you're not.
thebabydoc
New member
I agree that this is not sufficient evidence for your being an anti-semite, but to post here like this you probably are (if it quacks like a duck...) and I don't hear a denial. But many of us are anti-Palestines only we use evidence and logic to support our attacks on their political stances and actions, rather than blanket statements like (of the Israelis anti-terrorist tactics) "Their approach has very apparently made things much worse for them" Apparent to whom? Where is the evidence? If we were to continue on your brilliantly deductive level of reasoning, then I could respond by telling you that it is the very success of the Israeli's retaliation that caused the attacks on the US (e.g. the attacks on Israel were getting them nowhere).Wfabrizio said:
Of course that is only a small part of the reason. The main reason is, as has been stated a million times by a million people, that they simply hate us. They hate the West, they hate the "infidels" they live to hate. It is in their definition of Jihad. In light of the persistently heinous actions by these people, why is it so hard to accept that they simple are bred to hate?
And as for the Palestinians, lets not forget how many times they have been offered land and a "homeland". Their unyielding party line has been that they must have the land that is Israel. They have no proven or valid claim to that land, even so, the Israeli's have offered some of it in return for peace. However the Palestenians have time and time again requested nothing short of all of it. As they are unwilling to compromie even the slightest bit on this issue, negotiating is of no use.
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Latimer said:
he's (weapon x)perfectly entitled to believe whatever he wants monkeylover
the attacks on israel were that of a madman hell bent on isolating islam from non-islam. the opalestinians have not associated themselves with it at all
yes, they have been offered land, but certain territories are holy to both israel and palestine and neither are prepared to give them up. the deal brokered by barak was the best theyve been offered, arafat turned it down but that wasnt the only reason it failed. it was actually very close to being accepted but time factors and scheduling had a BIG part to play.
this all means the peace process has a shot and both america and the UK realise this. both have asked israel to pull its forces out. both have refused. yes, muslim extermeists shot dead your minister to halt the process, should you try harder therefore. west bank terrorists did it to you old leader a while back didnt they. yet it has been rebuked. israel can move its forces in at ANY time and face little resistance. why not pull its troops back to give the process a chance then if something goes wrong move them in?
Wfabrizio
New member
I'm not an anti-semite at all. To simply say that I've had better business dealings with Arabs vs. Jews is not anti-semitic. You're reading too far into it.
What I do find amusing however, is to see people (like WeaponX) who frequently make very racist remarks regarding blacks, arabs and, palestinians, etc. now become so defensive when their race or religion is now being discussed.
And stumpy, be honest with yourself. There are ultra nationalistic parties on both sides of the conflict on Israel. It's never as simple as, "They're bad and we're good", both groups perceive themselves that same way. I'm sure if you were Palestinian you would say the same things about the Israeli's.
It's easy to point your finger and say someone is racist when their opinions do not fit your own. I'm sure if anyone remembers any of my posts from the past I'm anything but racist.
What I do find amusing however, is to see people (like WeaponX) who frequently make very racist remarks regarding blacks, arabs and, palestinians, etc. now become so defensive when their race or religion is now being discussed.
And stumpy, be honest with yourself. There are ultra nationalistic parties on both sides of the conflict on Israel. It's never as simple as, "They're bad and we're good", both groups perceive themselves that same way. I'm sure if you were Palestinian you would say the same things about the Israeli's.
It's easy to point your finger and say someone is racist when their opinions do not fit your own. I'm sure if anyone remembers any of my posts from the past I'm anything but racist.
S
Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)
Guest
Wfabrizio said:
I didn't say you were. It was just odd that you mentioned that in that particular context.
Wfabrizio said:
I agree with you there.
Wfabrizio said:
I never said that it's that simple, however, I challenge you to find a post of mine where I've scapegoated Arabs or Muslims, or Palestinians in particular. I never have. I've got friends who're Muslim (of various nationalities), so I'm aware of different opinions on this matter.
Wfabrizio said:
Did I say you were racist? Not at all, I just perceived your last couple of posts to be slightly biased. I just went by the tone of these posts, where you seemed highly emotional, and that's rather unusual coming from you (I usually enjoy reading your responses, because you seem very levelheaded.) It just struck me as odd, that's all.
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monkey_love said:
You are correct. I am a Jew by birth and by culture, and I have an immense love of the Jewish people and the only Jewish nation on this Earth.
Quite incorrect. We on this board have never engaged in discussion of the vast bulk of Israeli policies. Therefore, you have not heard where I dissent. On the policy of the continued existence of a Jewish State and the policy of dealing death to terrorists, I do agree fully with Israeli policy.
Again incorrect. You are 1 for 3.
I am not an Israelite. I did not even know that the term was being used by anyone other than King James. Next you'll call me a Hebrew.
I called WFabrizio a part-time anti-semite because of the themes which continuously run through his posts: that of anger against the Jewish State and at Jews in general. My judgment as not baed solely on his posts on this particular thread.
Jews, and Israelis in particular are pussies??
Whatever. Not all Jews are Woody Allen, bro.
Am Y'Israel Chai.
BigPhysicsBastard
New member
weapon x.....I can't stand Israel, I mean, I despise that nation. Does that make me an anti-semite??? Maybe......but I'm also anti-muslim. Frankly, I'm disgusted by any country/organization that bases it's policies on it's beleif of it's own religious superiority. I whole heartedly beleive that the muslims and the Israeli's were made for each other, neither will ever budge an inch because of their own religious hubris..........I hope they exterminate each other. Normally I would just sit back with a smile and watch two such monkey-like people kill each other off......Only one problem, Israel has made it's number one priority enmeshing the U.S in this conflict. Therefore if Israel goes down, they're damn sure going to drag us down with them. I don't agree with Bush trying to tell Israel what to do. Let them do what they want, but leave them the hell alone. Don't give them anymore aid, no more weapons........NOTHING!!!! But make it absolutely clear to the Arabs that we're pulling out of this mess, and any further attacks against us will result in Mecca becoming a pile of rubble fit for dog shit and nothing more........I'm dead serious on that too. We have to be fair, but at the same time we have to make it clear that SERIOUS fucking consequences are going to ensue if this shit keeps up, and those consequences are going to involve weapons of mass destruction.
DamnRedneck
New member
Alotta them klan boys around here have problem with jew boys. Hell, I ain't never had to deal with no jew before so I cain't says whether or not they is bad. One fella round here says he's a jew, but he looks jus like anyone else. As far as arabs go, hell, I tell you whut, here's a conspiracy. They ain't nuthin but Mexicans. Shit, I cain't tell a bit of difference, can you? They wear them funny head thingies to confuse everyone, but I ain't fooled. Remember, I seen a mexican up close - I got drunk an' fucked me one one night. Caught some unholy shit from the rest of the boys, but I tell you this - there ain't no diffrence tween a mexican and an arab.
G
Golfer18--old
Guest
Tough Fuckers right there.
Poppa- I agree, politics are corrupt as hell. As soon as someone says politically correct, they're not. I think as soon as you declare a party, you should be boxed out of politics. Swearing loyalty to a party is right behind being religious and neither one should be trusted in politics or the integrity of the decision can't be trusted.
M
MoneyBags
Guest
first, wfabriozo is definitely an anti-semite. how could he say that israel's war on terrorism has increased terrorism? if israel sat back and did nothing you really think there would be less terrorism? you dont hear of plane hijackings there. every arab would love to see every israeli die and so i think its obvious they are doing good in minimizing terrorism.
second, america has hurt the peace process more than anyone else. they just need to back off and let israel deal with it. there will never be peace if this peace process is forced to continue.
second, america has hurt the peace process more than anyone else. they just need to back off and let israel deal with it. there will never be peace if this peace process is forced to continue.
What the hell?
thebabydoc made a good point. The Israeli - Palestinian conflict stems from territorial disputes. They both claim the land is theirs, specifically Jerusalem. They got close to a resolution in the peace talks, but once Jerusalem came up neither nation would budge an inch. You could evenly split that whole area and neither of them would agree to it...it's an "all or nothing" fight.
The Palestinians pull some shit and get their asses kicked by Israel, then they do it again. As it was said, they've accomplished nothing but killing Israelis and then watching their actions come back to bite them in the asses while their countrymen die...all because they think they deserve what Israel has (land). Palestine brings their suffering upon itself.
Then they blame & hate the US for supporting the only democratic nation in that region. They celebrate the attacks on our country.
Wake up people...wake up.
thebabydoc made a good point. The Israeli - Palestinian conflict stems from territorial disputes. They both claim the land is theirs, specifically Jerusalem. They got close to a resolution in the peace talks, but once Jerusalem came up neither nation would budge an inch. You could evenly split that whole area and neither of them would agree to it...it's an "all or nothing" fight.
The Palestinians pull some shit and get their asses kicked by Israel, then they do it again. As it was said, they've accomplished nothing but killing Israelis and then watching their actions come back to bite them in the asses while their countrymen die...all because they think they deserve what Israel has (land). Palestine brings their suffering upon itself.
Then they blame & hate the US for supporting the only democratic nation in that region. They celebrate the attacks on our country.
Wake up people...wake up.
BigPhysicsBastard said:
I agree with parts of this, but disagree with the comment that Israel will drag us down. We may allow ourselves to be dragged down, but the onus is on us, not them to stop it. Like you said, cut them loose.....and we get completely out. Did anybody here see my poll on whether we should be there anymore? Check it, and offer your opinions, please.
Wfab, you're right about W X......he is very defensive for someone who does make very racist comments......
M
MoneyBags
Guest
i dont see how anyone can think israel is wrong. what do you expect them to do? we got attacked once and we are all going nuts wanting to nuke everybody and scared of more attacks. israel has been under this constant threat of terrorism ever since it was first created. if we were israel would we be so lenient with the palestinians? what should israel do?
thebabydoc
New member
Are you out of your mind!!!?BigPhysicsBastard said:
What makes you think that if we "leave them [the Israeli's] the hell alone" that the arabs will forget about us when all evidence points to the contrary. Israel has NO INTEREST in the U.S. or "dragging us down". Those "SERIOUS fucking consequences" ARE ENSUING now. The Taliban/ whoever you want to call them WANT US THERE. They wanted the Russians there. They believe they can take down the world superpowers one at a time by forcing them onto their "home turf". In the end, it's looking more and more that some of Weapon X's beliefs (vis-a-vis the messiah and his coming) could come to be, with Israel the sole survivor.
Because we lack the conviction and strength to do what needs to be done, it will eventually be left to the Israeli's. I can guarantee you that should it come to it, they will act where we did/could not. Believe this: they ARE the greatest ally the U.S. has.
It is they who are looking out for our interests, not the other way around. You need to take off those colored spectacles you've been wearing for too long.
Mikel fikel
New member
I spent 3 years working in Israel and let me tell you they are the most racist bunch of fuckers you'll ever see being a coloured person and coming for South Africa the shit that we injured is nothing close to what the Palestine’s go through daily.
In the old South Africa Mandela was a terrorist, but America supported him he killed plenty of people with bombs in wimpy’s who does that target KIDS so why is it right for our Noble peace prizewinner to do it but not the Palestine’s. The Palestine’s are in the same position the blacks in SA were in, their basic human rights are violated daily they can't use main roads into town they go through check points were they are humiliated and beaten all the time they have been treated like shit every single day for the last 34 years you can't blame them for attacking Israel and all they see is America helping Israel to fuck them if America is so concerned about the HUMAN RIGHTS why didn't they side with no one and help sort the problem out.
The American Administration is the most Hypocritical bunch
Bin Laden was supported by America when it suited them now he’s a terrorist same thing with Sudam, America have made some serious fuck ups when it comes to war when will your Administration learn. Its time America stayed out of everyone else's business.
Can you imagine if these terrorists get their hands on the Ebola (spelling) virus cities in America will be wiped out and its not impossible to get SA have this virus and we are very friendly with Arafat and Bin Laden you do the math.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
Whites think Mandela was a terrorist many black people and I see him as a hero.
I'm not condoning the attacks in any way. But this is not the right way to go about dealing with Terrorists that are not caught or killed will go deeper under ground and wait for there chance to attack and those attacks will get worse and America will be there number one target I know this because I fought for the ANC and we were trained by these guys (how to plant bombs and plan attacks) these people are ruthless
If you are oppressed at what point do you start fighting back when your daughter is killed or raped purely because she’s a Palestine. How much can anyone of us take? The SA police murdered my mother and farther during a raid, did I fight back? Yes did I kill? Yes Would I do it again? Yes in a heartbeat
The majority of us would do the same thing or am I wrong?
In the old South Africa Mandela was a terrorist, but America supported him he killed plenty of people with bombs in wimpy’s who does that target KIDS so why is it right for our Noble peace prizewinner to do it but not the Palestine’s. The Palestine’s are in the same position the blacks in SA were in, their basic human rights are violated daily they can't use main roads into town they go through check points were they are humiliated and beaten all the time they have been treated like shit every single day for the last 34 years you can't blame them for attacking Israel and all they see is America helping Israel to fuck them if America is so concerned about the HUMAN RIGHTS why didn't they side with no one and help sort the problem out.
The American Administration is the most Hypocritical bunch
Bin Laden was supported by America when it suited them now he’s a terrorist same thing with Sudam, America have made some serious fuck ups when it comes to war when will your Administration learn. Its time America stayed out of everyone else's business.
Can you imagine if these terrorists get their hands on the Ebola (spelling) virus cities in America will be wiped out and its not impossible to get SA have this virus and we are very friendly with Arafat and Bin Laden you do the math.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
Whites think Mandela was a terrorist many black people and I see him as a hero.
I'm not condoning the attacks in any way. But this is not the right way to go about dealing with Terrorists that are not caught or killed will go deeper under ground and wait for there chance to attack and those attacks will get worse and America will be there number one target I know this because I fought for the ANC and we were trained by these guys (how to plant bombs and plan attacks) these people are ruthless
If you are oppressed at what point do you start fighting back when your daughter is killed or raped purely because she’s a Palestine. How much can anyone of us take? The SA police murdered my mother and farther during a raid, did I fight back? Yes did I kill? Yes Would I do it again? Yes in a heartbeat
The majority of us would do the same thing or am I wrong?
The Varnsen
New member
The arabs are not the only terrorists here...
M
MoneyBags
Guest
if we supported bin laden in the past and now we want to kill him who cares? it suited us back then to help him and now it suits us to kill him. we do whats best for us. im sure the day will come when we are killing off the northern alliance. thats perfectly fine with me. we do what we need to do at the time we need to do it.
now maybe if the palestinians werent constantly committing acts of terrorism maybe they would be treated better. they deserve the treatment they get. they were hoping that back when israel created that the other arab countries would come in and kill all the jews there. well they failed and now they have to live with it. or die, i dont give a shit.
now maybe if the palestinians werent constantly committing acts of terrorism maybe they would be treated better. they deserve the treatment they get. they were hoping that back when israel created that the other arab countries would come in and kill all the jews there. well they failed and now they have to live with it. or die, i dont give a shit.
Wfabrizio
New member
MoneyBags said:
Hahahaha.....this is hilarious.....next you'll be telling me that I'm anti-semitic because I don't like kosher food. So then you really have convinced yourself that there is no correaltion between Israel's military retaliations and increased Palestinian terrorism?
I completely agree. The US policy of supporting everything the Israeli's do has caused us some serious problems. The US should be a neutral party. How can you have a biased peace negotiator?
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Wfabrizio
New member
Oh, and for whoever left me the bad karma......that is so chicken shit. I've got a great idea! Why doesn't everyone who disagrees with each others entitled opinions, just send bad karma back and forth so that we can have a replica model of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict!
Now, that would be special! Constant retaliation! Gee, and people wonder why this frame of logic doesn't work for the Middle East.
Now, that would be special! Constant retaliation! Gee, and people wonder why this frame of logic doesn't work for the Middle East.
Wfabrizio said:Oh, and for whoever left me the bad karma......that is so chicken shit. I've got a great idea! Why doesn't everyone who disagrees with each others entitled opinions, just send bad karma back and forth so that we can have a replica model of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict!
Now, that would be special! Constant retaliation! Gee, and people wonder why this frame of logic doesn't work for the Middle East.
dont sweat it, i get bad karma for wishing bi-sexuals happy birthday and if someone simply disagrees with me. as long as its in the green its ok.
BigPhysicsBastard
New member
babydoc.....if we stop backing EVERYTHING that Israel does, the arabs will "more than likely" forget about us.....what other problem do they have with us besides our support of Israel?? We're on the other side of the globe. Now if we pull out our support for Israel and some monkey asses still feel the need to be fucksticks and do shit to us........well, than it's like I stated before........Mecca goes down in a great big fucking ball of fire.
I just think it's time for Israel to be on it's own. If they want to keep expanding their territory, eventually they are going to have to deal with the consequences. People don't like being assfucked off their own land.......eventually something is going to give, and when it does I pray that the U.S is far far away.
I just think it's time for Israel to be on it's own. If they want to keep expanding their territory, eventually they are going to have to deal with the consequences. People don't like being assfucked off their own land.......eventually something is going to give, and when it does I pray that the U.S is far far away.
BigPhysicsBastard said:
Our very way of life. Our Western culture. We are Infidels. Remember that Islam consides the U.S. to be the 'Great Satan.' Do you think they call us that simply for supporting Israel??
"MOnkey Asses"? And I'm the one who gets called a racist!
Uh... Israel is actually smaller than it was 30 years ago, man.
There never was a PAlestinian nation or culture: "It has never been the name of a nation or state. It is a geographical term, used to designate the region at those times in history when there is no nation or state there.
The word itself derives from "Peleshet", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". The name began to be used in the Thirteenth Century BCE, for a wave of migrant "Sea Peoples" who came from the area of the Aegean Sea and the Greek Islands and settled on the southern coast of the land of Canaan. There they established five independent city-states (including Gaza) on a narrow strip of land known as Philistia. The Greeks and Romans called it "Palastina".
The Philistines were not Arabs, they were not Semites. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina" derived from the Peleshet.
http://www.tzemach.org/fyi/docs/nopal.htm
"A well-researched book, "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters (1) carefully tracked the inflow of Arabs into Palestine from Syria, Transjordan, Egypt, Arabia, Persia (now Iran), et al. Shifting Fellaheen population into the area was primarily based on available employment. Before oil became a major industry, most Arabs lived at a poverty level. If job opportunities appeared, word spread and whole tribes, families and individuals migrated.
When the Jews started to return to and build up the Land of Israel, tradesmen and labor were needed. Arabs from surrounding countries came in droves, glad to find profitable work. The British in control under the mandate watched the inflow of Arab peasants with benign disinterest, not even bothering to record their entry. The British did, however, count the Jews entering. In order to block their escape from the Holocaust in Europe, they maintained their quotas of only 5000 Jews per year."
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/aug98/winston1.htm
http://www.alibris.com/search/detai...al&S=R&bid=8030341163&page=1&matches=1&qsort=
BigPhysicsBastard
New member
weapon X, I didn't read more than a couple sentences into that jewish propaganda, because I knew where it was going and I've heard it before. The facts are that there was a substantial amount of people that were wrongfully evicted from their land. I don't care how the other Arab nations treated them, I don't care that maybe they weren't an "official" country.........they still got assfucked off their land. Now don't get me wrong, I also find it ironic that these muslim nations take up the cause of the palestinians so quickly yet they treated them like shit. That's not lost on me. I know full well that the underlying cause of all this bullshit is religion. The muslims do not like a powerful "non-muslim" state living amongst them. And yes you are correct about the way they view the west. But that view started because of our meddling in their affairs. Now the whole region is polarized against us. But I just don't see them continuing to attack us if we leave them alone. Because right now they feel as if they HAVE to attack us, and the inevitable consequences are worth it. Remember, the U.S cannot go "too far" in it's response to terrorism because we risk alienating the rest of the world. If we stop messing around in middle eastern affairs and we STILL get attacked, than we really do have a green light to fuck people up........and I'm not talking about strategic bombing, I'm talking full scale annihilation. The rest of the world will not be able to say anything to us either.
Wfabrizio
New member
Honestly, I'm really sick and tired of hearing how both sides are "right" in their actions to one another. Whatever. All that I care about is keeping the fucked up middle east situation away from the United States.
Unfortunately, Israel doesn't even support recent US foreign policy in the region because it conflicts with their aims. Israel should kiss our ass or at least give us a reach-around for all the years of support we have given them. Instead, they are intensifying their efforts against the Palestinians. This will merely increase palestinian and arab aggression against the US.
In my opinion, the Israeli government is just as foul as their palestinian opposition.
Unfortunately, Israel doesn't even support recent US foreign policy in the region because it conflicts with their aims. Israel should kiss our ass or at least give us a reach-around for all the years of support we have given them. Instead, they are intensifying their efforts against the Palestinians. This will merely increase palestinian and arab aggression against the US.
In my opinion, the Israeli government is just as foul as their palestinian opposition.
BigPhysicsBastard
New member
amen
S
Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)
Guest
Wfabrizio said:
Ignoring what's going on there is not going to make the problem go away. We need to engage other strong parties (EU, Russia, China) in the peace settlement, so that it will be accepted by both sides. And yes, it is OUR responsibility, since we're the world hegemon.
Wfabrizio said:
Israel is not a US colony, although many would like to believe so. They do have their own independent foreign policy, you know.
Wfabrizio said:
The current government is right-wing, the previous government was really center-left. You're saying that even when the Israeli government was a leftist, Socialist entity, they were still foul in your eyes? Btw, the Palestinian opposition is composed of various factions, too, from the Marxist-Leninist Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, to the Islamic Jihad and Hamas.
Wfabrizio
New member
Stumpy, I want to keep this peaceful because I enjoy your presence on this board as well, these are just my opinions.....
I don't want to ignore the situation, I just don't want to hear all the propaganda that keeps flying around. And yes, I don't want the situation to effect the US as it is now.
Israel's foreign policy should reflect our own for the simple fact that we are integral in the support and defense of their nation. Considering that we are hand in hand with Israel, they need to adhere to our policies during the current situation we are now engaged in. The US is much more vulnerable than Israel in regards to terrorism.
The previous government had the best chance of sorting this crap out but many people fail to recognize what was an internal power struggle and assasination by the Mossad that took place in Israel of it's political leader. I do understand that the Palestinians have many different factions as well, it's just that many people are brainwashed into thinking that the Israeli's are just defending themselves from these horrible palestinians, when in fact the ultra nationalists are the aggressors in many occasions.
I don't want to ignore the situation, I just don't want to hear all the propaganda that keeps flying around. And yes, I don't want the situation to effect the US as it is now.
Israel's foreign policy should reflect our own for the simple fact that we are integral in the support and defense of their nation. Considering that we are hand in hand with Israel, they need to adhere to our policies during the current situation we are now engaged in. The US is much more vulnerable than Israel in regards to terrorism.
The previous government had the best chance of sorting this crap out but many people fail to recognize what was an internal power struggle and assasination by the Mossad that took place in Israel of it's political leader. I do understand that the Palestinians have many different factions as well, it's just that many people are brainwashed into thinking that the Israeli's are just defending themselves from these horrible palestinians, when in fact the ultra nationalists are the aggressors in many occasions.
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MoneyBags
Guest
wfabriozo, what have we done for israel recently? all we have done is fucked them over by forcing them to tolerate all that palestinian bullshit. israel shouldnt back out of those palestinian controlled cities, israel should eliminate the palestinian control in those areas and put it under israeli control.
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Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)
Guest
Wfabrizio, I agree with everything that you've just said.
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MoneyBags
Guest
what do the palestinians have to offer to us? absolutely nothing but problems. we should push for an end to the peace process and let israel control its entire country.
Wfabrizio
New member
That's cool stumpy. I just want to make sure that I'm regarded as an anti-semite because I'm anything but a racist.
Moneybags, Israel can do whatever it wants as long as it doesn't interfere with our national security as far as I'm concerned, but that's the problem, it is affecting our national security. Not directly from the Palestinians but obviously from many Islamic extremists.
Moneybags, Israel can do whatever it wants as long as it doesn't interfere with our national security as far as I'm concerned, but that's the problem, it is affecting our national security. Not directly from the Palestinians but obviously from many Islamic extremists.
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Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)
Guest
Wfabrizio said:
You forgot to add "not" right before "regarded"
... There's no need to explain yourself, because I never even hinted that you were one, but I guess others were throwing that epithet at you. Some people, when they get emotional and irrational, need to label anyone who disagrees with them.MoneyBags said:
Heres 2 things that keep them alive
1. sent them billions of dollars in aid
2. built a missile defense system for them!
Israel would be a thing of the past if we didn't give them the tools to fight-----If an all out world war 3 happens ---Israel will be the first to go---They are sitting ducks out there and are still there because we allowed them to be. The U.S. has single handedly saved them from being wiped off the map.
When the use of oil is no longer needed by our country----and we have a missile defense system "that works" in place, they will be on there own and god have mercy on them!!
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MoneyBags
Guest
Wombat said:
1. from what i have heard we send arab countries billions in aid also.
2. israel currently has the ability to destroy all those countries without our help. israel has done it in the past and america made israel back off. israel should just all out attack them while israel is more powerful instead of waiting for the arab countries to get more powerful. the only thing keeping arab countries from destroying israel is the fact that they cant.
thebabydoc
New member
Wombat...what a complete moron. Don't let facts get in the way of your opinion, ok?
Read moneybags' post. Simple facts.
We (the US) have REPEATEDLY held back the Israelis in their defensive/offensive strikes and made them return land or stop advances.
We (the US) have REPEATEDLY forced the Israelis back to the negotiating table with ignorant, terrorist Palestenians who time and again VIOLATE terms of cease fires and peace agreements.
We (the US) have REPEATEDLY purchased military technology and hardware from the Israelis.
Israel can and will toast the entire Middle East when the US withdraws, trust me on this. I welcome it as do the Israelis. Do you really really believe they are still around because of the US? They are probably the 3rd or 4th most powerful military power in the world. Do you realize that virtually every citizen is enlisted in the military forces and ALL have served. Where do you buy your crack?
Read moneybags' post. Simple facts.
We (the US) have REPEATEDLY held back the Israelis in their defensive/offensive strikes and made them return land or stop advances.
We (the US) have REPEATEDLY forced the Israelis back to the negotiating table with ignorant, terrorist Palestenians who time and again VIOLATE terms of cease fires and peace agreements.
We (the US) have REPEATEDLY purchased military technology and hardware from the Israelis.
Israel can and will toast the entire Middle East when the US withdraws, trust me on this. I welcome it as do the Israelis. Do you really really believe they are still around because of the US? They are probably the 3rd or 4th most powerful military power in the world. Do you realize that virtually every citizen is enlisted in the military forces and ALL have served. Where do you buy your crack?
BigPhysicsBastard
New member
If Israel nuked anybody they'd get the fallout.....and they know it. THey just use it as an "ace"....but in actuality they can't use them. And militarily they are more technologically advanced than the arab countries around them. But if a "U.S unapposed" war happens between Israel and the rest of the arab countries in the Mid-east........Israel would be routed badly in a conventional war. Of course they'd take down a shit load of arabs with them, but it would turn into a numbers game....once which they can't compete against. No, they DESPERATELY need the spector of U.S support.........we're the only thing that has stood in the way of the arab nations dogpiling Israel.
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MoneyBags
Guest
in a conventional war israel would easily destroy all its surrounding countries easily. read some history on israel. it wouldnt be the first time the arab countries tried to take on israel all at once.
thebabydoc
New member
BigPhysMoron:
Ever hear of the Yom Kippur (6-day) War? The Arabs ganged up on the holiest day in the Jewish calendar and staged an all-out "surprise attack". They got their asses kicked so badly than the state of Israel grew its borders like 10%. The Israelis stopped only because of the US.
Just say no to crack, dude.
Ever hear of the Yom Kippur (6-day) War? The Arabs ganged up on the holiest day in the Jewish calendar and staged an all-out "surprise attack". They got their asses kicked so badly than the state of Israel grew its borders like 10%. The Israelis stopped only because of the US.
Just say no to crack, dude.
BigPhysicsBastard
New member
you're right bd, Israel did whup some ass during the 6th day war............but it wasn't against the combined forces of ALL the arab nations......not even close dude. If I'm not mistaken the main opposition to Israel during the 6 day war was egypt. Now consider the same scenarion today........you have Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya.......and if need be, every able bodied muslim male responding to a "jihad".........dude, Israel would HAVE to use nukes. How many MILLIONS of people could the arabs throw against Israel??? I don't care how much more advanced Israel is, it might have been different 30-40 years ago, but the arab countries won't be coming in on horseback anymore. My point is further backed up by the fact that Israel doesn't hold thier tongue when it comes to telling the rest of the Arab world that they will use nukes if they have to. Why would they do that if they "supposedly" are able to wipe out the whole middle east in a conventional war???
by the way, you're an ass............the first sign of a defeat is resorting to childish name calling.........you couldn't even be witty either, that's pathetic!!
by the way, you're an ass............the first sign of a defeat is resorting to childish name calling.........you couldn't even be witty either, that's pathetic!!
Mikel fikel
New member
MoneyBags said:
thebabydoc said:
do some research, i dont mean this as a flame
the israelis would won because of the US. while this does not detract from the efforts of the soldiers that fought in a war no-one thought they could win, Israel would not have been created without US/British help. im not saying these events should or shoulnt have happened but im sure many in your country feel its kinda a 'bite the hand that feeds you' situation. Dont forget paying the Israelis for military technology benfits israel financially too. do you really think that america is in desperate need iof technology with their R&D budget? The israelis do have V.good health research im told which is pretty damn good considering
of course even though it was with support of the US, the 6-day warwas really a kick in the balls to the arabs. Irael really achieved a lot their, they like doubled the size of their country even if it was just desert, most people didnt thinkn they could pull it off but that was really a resounding defeat. the arabs had soviet defence help, hell they even built them a state of the ary radar base which the isrelis managed to take out without the egyptians realising
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MoneyBags
Guest
Mikel fikel said:
Wfabrizio
New member
The Israeli's for sure have a good military establishment, but be honest, almost all of their equipment is from the USA. How many arab countries have F-16's and much much more US military hardware like the Israeli's? Military technology and training is a key part in military victories. Without the sale of this equipment to Israel, they would be using the exact same hardware as the arabs, old and outdated Soviet crap. That would level the playing field to a large degree.
thebabydoc said:
Please tell me your kidding me----They are the 4th most powerful military power because of the u.s and britain---Where do you think they got there weapons from. Who trained them how to fly there planes? They can have all the military power in the world but when it comes down to it and a major war happens near their soil--There country is the size of a postage stamp---How many nukes would it take to wipe out their whole country---A nuke wouldn't even have to hit there country but come close and the fallout would be massive.
Your right they do have the power to do major damage to surrounding countries---But the U.S. is not giving them a missile defense system because of the damage that they can do but because of the damage that can be done to them. When so many people live in a small area, it becomes that much easier to do so much more damage.
Hell 10 years ago more Israels were injured by scud missiles then u.s and britain soldiers were during the whole war.
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MoneyBags
Guest
the two of you dont seem to understand what im saying. yes the united states helped israel build up the military and were vital in israels survivial. however, now if america backed off and gave israel nothing else israel would be able to destroy the arab countries. the arab countries are all poor as shit and poorly run. israel would love to have the opportunity to go to town on them. i figure they will eventually.
Moneybags---Israel is a main interest for the u.s. in that area-----If we backed off them and they went to and all out war with the arabs----They would get nuked to fuck in the end and before that happend we would be forced to help them out. That would drag us into a war that is fought souly because of religious beliefs---Its silly----Israel is destined to fall---The us is trying to help stop that from happening. Lets say your theory is right and the u.s. said ok your on your own. Do whatever you want. Israel goes and bombs the fuck out of these arab countries---Do you really think Russia and china are going to sit back and let that happen. Of course not, they will go after Israel and we would be forced to protect Israel and would probably fail miserably. It would be world war 3 --- and no one would win. except probably the arabs hidden in caves that can never die.
could israel take out the palestinians....hell yes
the rest of the arabs neighbouring......maybe...they got the airforce, the weaponry and the money, plus the nukes (fonz mentioned before their nues are all in the kiloton range and are plane launched....still devastating. still they have large armies, just older ones which are less wll trained
you have no arguement from me there, they have a strong army and i guess an airforce too
of course if the US was just to jump back and say, hey sort it out for yoursleves, when israel inevitably kills a hell of a lot of arabs whats the reaction gonna be......this never would have happened if it werent for those damned americans. that is not a good thing.
sorting out that reigon will only help us get back support from these muslim countries, and in doing so allow them to be more free to allow investigations into terrorists in their country. plus it would give the palestinians a homeland and hopefully keep the riots in israel down to a minimum. you need the palestinians dont forget for manual labour, so you wouldnt kick them out. but im sure it would allow more ionternational supprt for the mossad when they go get those mofo's
the rest of the arabs neighbouring......maybe...they got the airforce, the weaponry and the money, plus the nukes (fonz mentioned before their nues are all in the kiloton range and are plane launched....still devastating. still they have large armies, just older ones which are less wll trained
you have no arguement from me there, they have a strong army and i guess an airforce too
of course if the US was just to jump back and say, hey sort it out for yoursleves, when israel inevitably kills a hell of a lot of arabs whats the reaction gonna be......this never would have happened if it werent for those damned americans. that is not a good thing.
sorting out that reigon will only help us get back support from these muslim countries, and in doing so allow them to be more free to allow investigations into terrorists in their country. plus it would give the palestinians a homeland and hopefully keep the riots in israel down to a minimum. you need the palestinians dont forget for manual labour, so you wouldnt kick them out. but im sure it would allow more ionternational supprt for the mossad when they go get those mofo's
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MoneyBags
Guest
israel isnt destined to fall. the arab world is destined to fall. when they dont have oil to hold over us anymore they are definitely fucked. they are a backwards society that wont last. if we were smart we would secure the oil for us now and do a combined attack against the arab world. restrict them to one small nation and not allow any of them to leave it. sterilize those who live in it and let them fade away.
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MoneyBags
Guest
Wfabrizio said:
is it not appropriate? the guy before said "israel is destined to fall". what does that mean? it probably means that he thinks the arabs will win in the end. what will the arabs do if they win? do you think they will discuss peace and be good to the jews that live in israel? i know even you arent dumb enough to believe that. the arabs would massacre every last jew. so basically that guy was saying that the arabs will kill every single jew eventually. people dont want to think about that. they dont want to believe that if the positions were reversed that the arabs would kill all jews without hesitation. why are you holding the jews to a higher standard than the arabs? at least we know that the jews are capable of living in peace with us. the arabs are constantly at war and their countries are complete shit.
Moneybags----The only thing that has kept Israel from being wiped off the map has been the U.S. and britain---And you want the U.S. to leave them alone now. You should know better then that. Hell i'm with you. I would like to see the u.s. and israel wipe out all of the middle east. But that is just never going to happen. And one day when the world war does start israel will be wiped off the map. Probably by russians, china, India or pakistan---lets hope not and lets be glad that Israel is supported by the U.S.
so the views of certain jews to arabs are justified because of their ways and culture
hitler used the same arguement and it struck home with a lot of soon-to-be nazi's. you say theyd love to kill every jew. true. the radicals would and i get the impression while they may not be in the majority, there are enought of them to do it
is the same not true of west bank settlersand the terrorist organistaions within them? they would like to see every palestinin dead. members of the current administration would. the leader indirectly helped in the mas genocide of 1000's
ill agree with you. i have NO love for any muslim state out there, they are virtually all intolerant of all other cultures and that goes against everything i beleive (other than maybe saudi). but even with my views the palestinans deserve a place to live. so do the jews now as well. which is why a peace deal needs to be brokered.
i know the terrorism wont stop. but it WILL be reduced. an it should be easier to control terrorists entering your borders too. dont forget both sides have deep religious holdings to territories, a dislike of each other, similar customs, and versions of the word infidel. you arent all that different when you think about it. while co-existence might be an impossibility peace is worth a shoit. if it fails israel can easily roll the tanks in again. why not give it a shot? because sharon doesnt want peace
hitler used the same arguement and it struck home with a lot of soon-to-be nazi's. you say theyd love to kill every jew. true. the radicals would and i get the impression while they may not be in the majority, there are enought of them to do it
is the same not true of west bank settlersand the terrorist organistaions within them? they would like to see every palestinin dead. members of the current administration would. the leader indirectly helped in the mas genocide of 1000's
ill agree with you. i have NO love for any muslim state out there, they are virtually all intolerant of all other cultures and that goes against everything i beleive (other than maybe saudi). but even with my views the palestinans deserve a place to live. so do the jews now as well. which is why a peace deal needs to be brokered.
i know the terrorism wont stop. but it WILL be reduced. an it should be easier to control terrorists entering your borders too. dont forget both sides have deep religious holdings to territories, a dislike of each other, similar customs, and versions of the word infidel. you arent all that different when you think about it. while co-existence might be an impossibility peace is worth a shoit. if it fails israel can easily roll the tanks in again. why not give it a shot? because sharon doesnt want peace
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MoneyBags
Guest
fuck that. the palestinians get some control and whats the first thing they do? free all the palestinian terrorists from prisons. let them have a place to live but let an arab country give it to them.
also stop saying israel wouldnt be here without america. i have already said that i agree. however, if america backed off now israel has the military to easily beat the arab countries ON ITS OWN. the arab countries are weak as hell and the israeli military is very strong.
it amazes me how people act as if they care about the palestinians. the palestinians that left israel did so voluntarily thanks to the recommendations of the other arab nations. why? because they said they would come in and kill all the jews. they would have killed every jew, man woman and child, if they had succeeded. i couldnt care less what happens to any of those fucks. if they want to survive they need to beg an arab nation for some land and try to set up a life there. if they continue with this shit then they are bound to be eliminated. the peace process is a bad idea if it involves giving palestinians israeli land.
also stop saying israel wouldnt be here without america. i have already said that i agree. however, if america backed off now israel has the military to easily beat the arab countries ON ITS OWN. the arab countries are weak as hell and the israeli military is very strong.
it amazes me how people act as if they care about the palestinians. the palestinians that left israel did so voluntarily thanks to the recommendations of the other arab nations. why? because they said they would come in and kill all the jews. they would have killed every jew, man woman and child, if they had succeeded. i couldnt care less what happens to any of those fucks. if they want to survive they need to beg an arab nation for some land and try to set up a life there. if they continue with this shit then they are bound to be eliminated. the peace process is a bad idea if it involves giving palestinians israeli land.
Wombat said:
why the india in there? no flame but
i do believe they couldnt give a monkeys ass
they were among the first to offer military and logistical assitance to the US after the attacks, still are members of the commonwealth (pakistan kicked out), are tolerant of all cultures, islam, buddism, christianity and allowed the dalai lama refuge, pissing china off no end
ok so they commited war crimes in kashmir in torturing enemy soldiers and spies. the pakistanis wanted to execute a 12yr old child for being christian. any hindus on the pakistani side if kashmir were killed. not all muslims were on the india side. india actually has more muslims in it than any other country (overpopulation, they are still outnumbered)
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MoneyBags
Guest
could you imagine how easy it would be for israel to defeat india? the people all have red dots on their heads. it would be like target practice.
MoneyBags said:
dont free the prisoners. maybe a few token ones. they be yours now
like i said, tey kick the palestinians ass silly. arab countries have many crusty but robust russian tanks, planes, rifles. israel has less, technologically advanced and therefore less reliable tanks, planes rifles. in a ground war they would be fucked. a bear versus 8 wolves. 1 wolf would be fucked, all 8 are gonna tonk that bear silly
nukes equalise matters slightly
and a lot of them did not leave volunatrily....think about it....isrealis walk in and say 'were gonna live here', palestinians say 'alright then'
the brits burnt them out of their homes in british palestine, those are just the very few that had homes. a lot ofthem were nomads and shit. still none of that matter now as you have a legitiamte civillian population over there JUST as the palestinians do. no arab country is gonna give em land, egypt fought tooth and nail over the desert you guys won in the 6 day war. peace will not happen until you giove them the land, some of which international law says you are occupying illegally (just the west bank), kicking them out might start things rolling
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Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)
Guest
MoneyBags said:
India and Israel are allies. Did you know that?
MoneyBags said:
well
india has a missle program
but yeah...all those fancy weapons you have would come in useful
. but india wouldnt get involved. they are in fact the only country with a very large muslim population that i think is half ok government wise, cos islamic law aint preached. period. that shit be fucked up, this women is cheating so lets chuck stones at her till she dies, the proof being the word of one manwhich is why i really dont wanna see india get fucked over by what powell was insinuationg over US help in kashmir. very dangerous. especially since i fear for the lives if every non-muslim that still lives in kashmir. dont forget the pakistani government trained terrorists up and sent them on killing spree's, inda did some fucked up shit before but at least it has A GOVERNMENT, pakistan is basically a militarty government, if a civillian one is set up it is destroyed in a few years
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MoneyBags
Guest
Stumpy said:
i was just joking around.
Wfabrizio
New member
So what have we learned from this discussion? Abso-fucking-lutely nothing! LOL
The middle east crisis needs to stay in the middle east as far as I'm concerned. I wish Dubya would just lay the law down like this: "Y'all do whatever you wants to do but as soon as that shit crosses the Atlantic again we'll nuke the whole lot'a y'all!"
(If only it was that simple, huh)
LOL......I'm in a jovial mood for some reason....
The middle east crisis needs to stay in the middle east as far as I'm concerned. I wish Dubya would just lay the law down like this: "Y'all do whatever you wants to do but as soon as that shit crosses the Atlantic again we'll nuke the whole lot'a y'all!"
(If only it was that simple, huh)
LOL......I'm in a jovial mood for some reason....
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MoneyBags
Guest
i dont see why you blame israel for this shit. just a bunch of jews trying to survive in the desert. it was arabs that flew those planes into the wtc buildings. not the jews. you think we are exempt from the jihad? they dont like anyone who isnt muslim.
danielson said:
why the india in there? no flame but
i do believe they couldnt give a monkeys ass
they were among the first to offer military and logistical assitance to the US after the attacks, still are members of the commonwealth (pakistan kicked out), are tolerant of all cultures, islam, buddism, christianity and allowed the dalai lama refuge, pissing china off no end
ok so they commited war crimes in kashmir in torturing enemy soldiers and spies. the pakistanis wanted to execute a 12yr old child for being christian. any hindus on the pakistani side if kashmir were killed. not all muslims were on the india side. india actually has more muslims in it than any other country (overpopulation, they are still outnumbered)
I just threw them in there for being a nuclear power in the region. All it would take is for pakistan to launch one(1) nuke over to india and then who knows who would be allies with who. Everything would change. As soon as we step in, Israel would be under attack. And they are to small a country to handle any nuclear attack----
