W6?

[SteelWeaver]

May I ask another (few) of my endless questions? About training pre-comp.

Do you ever have your clients do very heavy weight, low reps (1-5)? Just wondering if there's any point in doing 6 weeks of heavy strength training on a contest prep schedule. I know this isn't supposed to promote hypertrophy, only strength, but does it PREVENT loss of muscle size? And could it actually increase muscle size? I'm so weak ...

How likely is is that I could increase lifts significantly when on a diet?

Also, when dieting, is one just trying to PREVENT losing muscle by training, or can one actually continue to gain LBM, albeit more slowly than when mass-building?

You'll want to know why I want to do this - well, I've been on 8-10 reps for about 12 weeks, thought it might be time to shake it up. If not heavy weight, low reps, do you have any suggestions? I could do 4-6, or 6-8???

Anyway, please help.

 

[wilson6]

"I know this isn't supposed to promote hypertrophy, only strength"

Really, then why don't powerlifters look like marathon runners? Hannibal must be one really petite guy, but strong?

Unless you're juicing and dieting down slowly, the chances of adding muscle mass while dieting for a show are slim to none.

Employing very high intensity (1-5 reps) at this time is not a good idea as the risk of injury is much higher while dieting because of fatigue, both central and peripheral.

Not sure why you'd even consider less than 3 reps for bodybuilding unless you're doing speed sets.

Sure changing the intensity/volume scheme is the underlying principle behind periodization and works, but I'd leave the higher intensity (lower reps; 4-6) for off-season to add mass and only for compound movements (bench, deadlift, squat, press, etc.). Having said that, don't go to really high reps either as that doesn't provide enough mechanical loading to maintain muscle mass. 6-12 rep range is fine for precontest.

W6

 

[Hannibal]

Really, then why don't powerlifters look like marathon runners? Hannibal must be one really petite guy, but strong?

PETITE

YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!

 

[wyst]

May I ask another (few) of my endless questions? About training pre-comp.

Do you ever have your clients do very heavy weight, low reps (1-5)? Just wondering if there's any point in doing 6 weeks of heavy strength training on a contest prep schedule. I know this isn't supposed to promote hypertrophy, only strength, but does it PREVENT loss of muscle size? And could it actually increase muscle size? I'm so weak ...

How likely is is that I could increase lifts significantly when on a diet?

Also, when dieting, is one just trying to PREVENT losing muscle by training, or can one actually continue to gain LBM, albeit more slowly than when mass-building?

You'll want to know why I want to do this - well, I've been on 8-10 reps for about 12 weeks, thought it might be time to shake it up. If not heavy weight, low reps, do you have any suggestions? I could do 4-6, or 6-8???

Anyway, please help.

Little off topic, but hey Stealweaver -- what contest are you prepping for? One in Japan? Hope you'll post some pics of you and the local competition. I'd love to see both -- I'd like to see what you look like, and being Japanese would love to see what the Japanese competition look like! Haven't found much on the Web.

Good luck!

Wyst

 

[SteelWeaver]

"I know this isn't supposed to promote hypertrophy, only strength"

Really, then why don't powerlifters look like marathon runners? Hannibal must be one really petite guy, but strong?

Now, now, there's no need for sarcasm. Heh heh - Hannibal the petite ...

To be honest, I've always wondered myself how powerlifters get to be so big when their training isn't technically hypertrophy-optimal. Everything I've heard, read, etc says that very low reps (1-5) build strength, moderate (6-12) promote hypertrophy, and anything above 12 promotes local muscular endurance. Why the hell do they print that stuff if it's not true? (Like what about the awesome 18-20, or even 50 rep sets I've been doing for legs, which are making them start to pop out?) And why don't bodybuilders train like powerlifters if they can get big that way - it would sure save a lot on the nasty lactate burn!

Not sure why you'd even consider less than 3 reps for bodybuilding unless you're doing speed sets.

What are speed sets, and aren't you contradicting what you said about Hannibal here? Why not go that low for bodybuilding? I want to go low because I'm pathetically weak, and I figure if I can improve my lifts, then raise the rep numbers with the new improved lifts, I'll get bigger, faster. Makes sense, doesn't it?

It takes like a zillion years to improve my lifts in the 8-10 rep range. Any tips?

Sorry, you answer one question and I ask another 10.

 

[wilson6]

Speed sets:

Employ a sub-maximal load and use explosive (fast) 2- 3 rep sets with 20 - 30 sec rest breaks.

W6

 

[SteelWeaver]

Wyst - it's Ms Tokyo (Novice - first comp. of the season, in May). It's bound to be very small, but I'll get some pics if I can. I'll definitely take pics of me LOL - maybe post them, depending how I look. I'm sure it will be hilarious - I'm 5'11, and the tallest female bodybuilder I saw all of last year was 4 inches shorter than that, and she was unusually tall! I'm not going to have a great deal of muscle mass for my frame, I don't think, but hell, I'm a novice, and I'm sure I'll put on LBM quickly post-comp. This show is my practice run for the Gay Games in November. I wanted to try the diet, the tan, the posing, the whole experience first, before getting up in front of thousands of people in Sydney.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Speed sets:

Employ a sub-maximal load and use explosive (fast) 2- 3 rep sets with 20 - 30 sec rest breaks.

W6

What does that do? Develop explosive power through white fiber recruitment with max hypertrophy returns?

 

[SteelWeaver]

W6, this is funny - I actually dreamt last night that you called me, didn't introduce yourself, just started telling me the answers to all these questions. I clicked on really fast as to who you were, but I was wondering so hard where you got my phone number that when I woke up, I couldn't remember any of the answers!

So it's a good thing you turned up here today. Thank you.

You had a really nice accent, BTW.

 

[SteelWeaver]

What does that do? Develop explosive power through white fiber recruitment with max hypertrophy returns?

Wait a minute - I just realised how stupid this is - I guess people train for reasons other than hypertrophy (like Hannibal, for example ...)

So, it develops explosive power - for, like, football or basketball?

Spatts - sorry to hear about your bad night - glad I could amuse you!

And sorry to hear about your bad DAY today!

 

[KBgrl]

KB is going to tokyo

 

[Hannibal]

He said, "You're not bringing a chalky, sweaty, grunting and groaning power lifter in to MY gym!"

I HAVE GOT TO MEET THIS GUY!!!

Tell him he can kiss my big, white, bloated, chalky, sweaty, gruntin, using all the plates, dropping the bar, causing a scene ASS!!!!

 

[Arioch]

Originally posted by SteelWeaver

Wait a minute - I just realised how stupid this is - I guess people train for reasons other than hypertrophy (like Hannibal, for example ...)

So, it develops explosive power - for, like, football or basketball?

Yes. By training in a ballistic manner, the stretch reflex is more fully utilized, and should have slightly more carry over into sports utilizing some type of specific stretch reflex, which is most of them. It can theoretically alter rate of force development as well.

And by shortening the sets (say only two rep sets when squatting) there is less of a fatique component when lifting, allowing the lifter to maintain superior technique over an equal number of repetitions in comparison to a bodybuilder who might do two sets of ten, and then start to have a breakdown in technique in the latter stages of the set, which can also lead to injury.

 

[SteelWeaver]

KB is going to tokyo

OMG, WHEN?!! I have to get my gf out of the way! j/k!! Come on, girl - are you up for a leg session with me?

Hannibal and spatts ... LOL! GRUNT ON!

Arioch, thank you. I happened across a post about this just today on the training board - someone there said their lifts just kept growing, employing westside methods - speed sets one day, max load sets another day. What kind of volume do you do on a program like this? (Oh, I guess I can check this somewhere). And would it be beneficial for a bodybuilder to do it? After my competition I'd like to really improve my strength levels, so that I can maximise growth after that. (There is a correlation between strength and size, right? I'm assuming getting stronger is the only way to help make me grow).

Anyway, so a westside type program, employing the basic lifts, for 6 weeks or so, followed by 6-8 weeks of a typical volume training hypertrophy-type bodybuilding program, along with lots of good food should do the trick, right?

OMG, I'm already thinking about AFTER this comp.! Maybe I should try and FOCUS.

Nevertheless, what do you think?

 

[wyst]

Wyst - it's Ms Tokyo (Novice - first comp. of the season, in May). It's bound to be very small, but I'll get some pics if I can. I'll definitely take pics of me LOL - maybe post them, depending how I look. I'm sure it will be hilarious - I'm 5'11, and the tallest female bodybuilder I saw all of last year was 4 inches shorter than that, and she was unusually tall! I'm not going to have a great deal of muscle mass for my frame, I don't think, but hell, I'm a novice, and I'm sure I'll put on LBM quickly post-comp. This show is my practice run for the Gay Games in November. I wanted to try the diet, the tan, the posing, the whole experience first, before getting up in front of thousands of people in Sydney.

Ah, insomnia. I was going to go to bed an hour ago, but I couldn't sleep. Glad I caught this -- missed it when you posted it. I can't wait to see those pics! I didn't know you were going to Sydney -- how cool! How big are those games?

I found some more links of Japanese Female BBers; if you are interested, I can dig 'em up, maybe later this week (they're on my work machine). One of em even has several vids of one of the champs (can't remember her name off the top of my head) posing. I think she's won the last few years in a row. She's like 34, I think.

Wyst

 

[KBgrl]

OMG, WHEN?!! I have to get my gf out of the way! j/k!! Come on, girl - are you up for a leg session with me?

LOL... you are so adorbale "steel" ya had to throw in that "j/K" though and ruin allll the fun! She'll never find out about "us" steel.. don't worry..she doesnt read the boards.. our secret is safe

unfortunately I was kidding. I have some trips planned for this year though and I would luv to go check out japan. It would be an experience !! Then we could hop on over to S.A and U.S and have fuuuuun while seeing beautiful things...
ohhhh I would MAKE that buddy of mine let you ride the harleyyyyyyyy... hehe...

steeeeeeeeeellllllllllll... lol... to be continued...


On a serious note -- relax momma, you're doing a good job and training your ass off. You are going to do great! wish I could see you compete

 

[Arioch]

Originally posted by Steelweaver


Arioch, thank you. I happened across a post about this just today on the training board - someone there said their lifts just kept growing, employing westside methods - speed sets one day, max load sets another day. What kind of volume do you do on a program like this? (Oh, I guess I can check this somewhere). And would it be beneficial for a bodybuilder to do it? After my competition I'd like to really improve my strength levels, so that I can maximise growth after that. (There is a correlation between strength and size, right? I'm assuming getting stronger is the only way to help make me grow).

For info on Westside: http://www.elitefts.com/

I think this type of training could be beneficial to a bodybuilder in the off season, I am not sure how well it would apply to preparing for a bodybuilding contest, which you should be focusing on. My knowledge of how to prep for a BB show would consist of "You need to be, like, really big, and diet, a lot, and stuff."

Yes, getting stronger is a good thing, but the relationship between size and strength is not linear. Sacroplasmic hypertrophy is fine for bodybuilders, but does not do much for strength athletes in general, except cause them to move up in weight without a corresponding increase in strength. This would be fine for you, who should be focusing on your contest, but not for me.

Anyway, so a westside type program, employing the basic lifts, for 6 weeks or so, followed by 6-8 weeks of a typical volume training hypertrophy-type bodybuilding program, along with lots of good food should do the trick, right?

What is "the trick?" There should not be any tricks, only a well thought out plan which you either follow or you do not. Your goal is hypertrophy, so find out which rep range or ranges work best for you, and focus on getting bigger. Note that the goal of a strength athlete is to be as strong as possible at the lowest weight possible. If making weight is depleting my strength, it is time to move up a weight class. In my case, it is an easy choice between diet and performance, and performance always wins. Many bodybuilders are so depleted on contest day that they are at there worst performance wise, but no one is judging them on how much they lift or how fast they run. Focus on your goals.

OMG, I'm already thinking about AFTER this comp.! Maybe I should try and FOCUS.

I believe I agree on your need to focus.

"Step by step walk the thousand mile road." - Musashi

 

[SteelWeaver]

Ooops - sorry KB. Maybe she can join in? And don't worry - she knows I'm a flirt - she loves all the girls lovin' me!

Wyst: There are 3 women at the top of JBB right now - Mizuma - who did well at the World Games, Ishikawa, who is the reigning Ms Nihon, and Mizu...moto(?) - Mizu-thing, who I personally feel has the best symmetry, but she came into the Ms Nihon too soft. I think she's 34 - Ishikawa is older, Mizuma is around the same age. Mizumoto is the tall one I was talking about - she's 172 cm - I'm 181. She's about 10 cm taller than all the rest.

Yeah, would love to see those web pages, if you find them.

Arioch - I'm very focussed - even if I don't sound it. It's just nice to have a general game plan in one's mind, so that when the right time rolls around, one doesn't waste time, and also I find it easier to maintain a high level of drive if the route looks fairly clear.

My knowledge of how to prep for a BB show would consist of "You need to be, like, really big, and diet, a lot, and stuff."

LMFAO! Well, to be sure then, I won't be asking you for contest prep advice! You seem quite good for off-season, though.

What is "the trick?" There should not be any tricks, only a well thought out plan which you either follow or you do not. Your goal is hypertrophy, so find out which rep range or ranges work best for you, and focus on getting bigger.

Just a manner of speaking ... no tricks. "A well thought out plan" is why I'm asking all these questions. I'm reasonably sure of what sort of rep ranges work for me, although this is an ongoing process of discovery and experimentation. What I'm really interested in knowing is whether somehow dramatically (or, well, even somewhat significantly) increasing my strength will promote faster hypertrophy gains in the following mesocycle. If I follow a westside-type program followed by 6-8 weeks of typical bodybuilding moderate rep volume training, what is the likelyhood of my size gains being greater than if I follow a moderate-rep programme for 6-8 weeks, followed by more of the same with different exercises? Most periodisation plans I've seen include a strength phase, but I think they concentrate simply on low reps at maximal load, with plenty of negative training, etc.

So, I'm not interested in being stong for the sake of being strong - I want to be strong so that hypertrophy will happen quicker. But I don't know how to get strong ...

(In the meantime, of course, I am simply focussing on KEEPING what I've got.)