Victims' Rights vs. Accused Rights

[Zirakzigil]

Here is the story. The guy I work out with brings his girlfriend every day, and she lifts machines and rides the bike while we work out. One day I skipped, because I had a bad cold. Apparently, as she was lifting, 2 guys were making remarks behind her back: "dude, that chick's got muscles. I bet she's got a real athletic boyfriend. I bet she's got TWO boyfriends. " and stuff like that. Just loud enough so she could hear. She apparently got very distraught and my friend and her went home. Today they went to the club's president and tried to get the guys banned from working out there. All the president would do is give the guy a stern warning and add a note to their files that if they ever did it again, they'd be banned. He also told the guys they couldn't lift at the same time for 1 week (they'd have to go in the morning or something)

Now I told my friend I thought that was a totally fair punishment. He was irate, he thought they should be banned. Here are my arguments as to why it was fair.

- Being banned for remarks like those is way overboard. They were mocking in a sexual manner, true, but they were not threatening or overtly abusive.

- what if she was lying? there were no witnesses. Suppose the guy had been hogging a machine and refused to give it up, so she gets mad and does this? I mean, I totally believe her story, but if the precedent is that the accused is banned, isn't that kind of scary? Your word vs. theirs. What about if you are accused of sexual harrassment at work. What if you are accused of child abuse. Shit, this is frightening. Banning with no evidence is too harsh imho. By all means encourage the victims to come out and tell, but let the punishment fit the crime. The "crime" here does not warrant a banning.

- to some degree the onus is on the victim to let it roll off their back. Obviously this only goes so far, and wouldn't apply to threats or matters for the law. They could ban the guy. He could still find ways to harrass her. He could see her at the store. He could wait outside for her. He could sneak in anyway (lax front desk) Etc. Which is why I say, to some degree the onus is on the victim to be strong enough not to let it affect them. I mean if someone does something shitty to you and you stay fearful for the rest of your life, that's your problem, you can't expect to have them punished to a highere degree than the crime warrants. If it's rape, fine, lock them up forever. If it's making rude comments, ban them forever from the club???? My god... It's a similar thing with, say, thievery. Someone steals your TV and sells it and spends the cash. They go to jail for 2 years. Do you have your TV back? No, and that's something you have to deal with.


Your thoughts...

 

[Lao Tzu]

If you're a woman, it is assumed you are a victim of X if you say you are. I've heard several stories of women making up domestic violence accusations and being taken at face value for it.


Growing up in america, you grow to realize that in non-legal proceedings, the only evidence needed to find someone guilty is circumstansial evidence saying it is possible & an accusation. Paula Poundstone will forever be labeled a child molester even with no real evidence to back up the accusation.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Exactly!!! And that's scary as fuck!

Now, I'm not saying NOTHING should be done in this situation, but you can't go overboard or the whole hog, based on one unwitnessed unsubstantiated claim.

 

[KEL]

At one gym I worked-out in we had a member I named “ogler”.
Ogler would (this is hard to believe) ogle the women while we worked out. This was truly a nuisance. My trainer even could give me an ogler block so the man couldn’t watch me grunt, clench my teeth or break a sweat.
He was warned then his membership was later terminated.

Point is your friends can and should not expect these men to have their membership terminated.

Let this be a lesson to all the guys/girls who stare or make comments about or to men/women in the gym.
This behavior is not flattering it is only annoying. Yes we can see and hear you. And if you think we will tolerate it dream on.

Lesson here is be respectful of others because karma is a bitch.

 

[Bigsatan13]

You couldn't handle it yourself? He couldn't handle it himself? She couldn't handle it herself? What the fuck? You had to go crying to management? Try speaking up for yourslelves! Or am I wasting my breath on a coward?

 

[Zirakzigil]

As I said, I wasn't even there. Apparently she did not tell him until they were leaving.

But anyway "handle it yourself"? Is that a cry for vigilantism? If so, you're an idiot.

 

[Bigsatan13]

As I said, I wasn't even there. Apparently she did not tell him until they were leaving.

But anyway "handle it yourself"? Is that a cry for vigilantism? If so, you're an idiot.

How about telling them to knock it off? How about standing up for yourself?
How about just admitting that you are a pussy and would do anything to avoid a confrontation?

 

[Zirakzigil]

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[p0ink]

As I said, I wasn't even there. Apparently she did not tell him until they were leaving.

But anyway "handle it yourself"? Is that a cry for vigilantism? If so, you're an idiot.

you and your whiny friends sound like some real dickless pricks...just so you know