victimless crime

[Warik]

if this was to happen then the american military wouldn't have any funding and lots of people with rocks would invade and throw em at you and you wouldnt have an army to stop them

If our country were at risk of invasion because the military didn't have any weapons, then why would anyone in this country who knows how to make weapons refuse to do so?

or roads to drive

If no one in this country could drive to work or school because we had no roads, then why would anyone in this country who knew how to make roads refuse to do so?

someone has to do these things and it takes money.

Part A? True. Part B? Very false.

were it to rely on charity

Why would anyone give when they are already being taken from?

the choice is pay the taxes
to live in the country or move out .....not much of a choice but a choice none the less

There is a host of other choices. We live in quite an interesting world. We live in a world in which human beings have the power to control it and shape their lives as they wish. As such, why do they choose to shape their lives in such a way that involves misery and suffering? We need X, but in order to get X we need to pay Y, and in order to pay Y, we need money. Wow, the problem seemed pretty easy until "we neeed money" showed up, eh?

The starving family needs to eat, but they need money.
The injured man needs medical attention, but he needs money.
The unemployed man needs a car to get to work, but he needs money.

I don't know about you, but doesn't it look like the whole focus of money in our lives is the root of our problems?

Think about it: Do you know anyone who would still be working at his job if it didn't pay as well? You probably know a lot of people. That's the problem. People are working in jobs that make them miserable just because they pay well, and people AREN'T working in jobs they love just because they DON'T pay well. Imagine a world where everyone did what they loved for a living.

The farmer loves to grow food, so he does it. The doctor loves to practice medicine, so he does it. One day, the farmer's foot gets run over by a tractor, and he needs the doctor to help him. The farmer doesn't have any money, but the doctor doesn't give a shit since the farmer feeds his family and the doctor goes ahead and helps him.

Can you explain to me why a doctor walking along the street would help a man who just collapsed on the sidewalk without handing him a bill afterwards, but would refuse to treat him for free in the luxury of his own medical office?

It's taken me many years to realize what money really is. Money is just a physical representation of what should be the good will of Man towards one another. It's almost as though the doctor doesn't realize the significance of the farmer in his life until the farmer accumulates enough green pieces of paper.

My God... difference between Man and Caveman? Man isn't running around in animal skins. That's about it, frankly.

-Warik

 

[danielson]

If our country were at risk of invasion because the military didn't have any weapons, then why would anyone in this country who knows how to make weapons refuse to do so?

after they fulfil their contract where would the resources come to replenish those they had spent? where would they get the resources. they employ men, but they have to give men something to make it worth their while to work for them, else the men wont have food to feed their families.

There is a host of other choices. We live in quite an interesting world. We live in a world in which human beings have the power to control it and shape their lives as they wish. As such, why do they choose to shape their lives in such a way that involves misery and suffering? We need X, but in order to get X we need to pay Y, and in order to pay Y, we need money. Wow, the problem seemed pretty easy until "we neeed money" showed up, eh?

The starving family needs to eat, but they need money.
The injured man needs medical attention, but he needs money.
The unemployed man needs a car to get to work, but he needs money.

I don't know about you, but doesn't it look like the whole focus of money in our lives is the root of our problems?

Think about it: Do you know anyone who would still be working at his job if it didn't pay as well? You probably know a lot of people. That's the problem. People are working in jobs that make them miserable just because they pay well, and people AREN'T working in jobs they love just because they DON'T pay well. Imagine a world where everyone did what they loved for a living.

The farmer loves to grow food, so he does it. The doctor loves to practice medicine, so he does it. One day, the farmer's foot gets run over by a tractor, and he needs the doctor to help him. The farmer doesn't have any money, but the doctor doesn't give a shit since the farmer feeds his family and the doctor goes ahead and helps him.

Can you explain to me why a doctor walking along the street would help a man who just collapsed on the sidewalk without handing him a bill afterwards, but would refuse to treat him for free in the luxury of his own medical office?

It's taken me many years to realize what money really is. Money is just a physical representation of what should be the good will of Man towards one another. It's almost as though the doctor doesn't realize the significance of the farmer in his life until the farmer accumulates enough green pieces of paper.

My God... difference between Man and Caveman? Man isn't running around in animal skins. That's about it, frankly.

-Warik

warik....are YOU goving an arguement against capatalism (and maybe) for socialism?!? socialism is all about providing public services after all? money and the gain of it by the individual is emphasised less after all, much less than a capatalistic society?

in a socialist country, medical care is free, food is taken from the farmers and distributed...

 

[Warik]

warik....are YOU goving an arguement against capatalism (and maybe) for socialism?!?

socialism - any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Who said anything about government?

in a socialist country, medical care is free

Canada's social healthcare plan is not free. The taxpayers pay for it. This isn't what I'm talking about.

What I'm talking about is not so simple as saying "capitalism vs. socialism." What you are talking about is systems of government. What I'm talking about are the attitudes and ideals of the people living in a given country. How can a country expect progress when many of its people are struggling to reach a bare minimum? How many brilliant people has this country lost because they couldn't afford an overpriced "education?" How much less crime would we have if there were no motivation to commit crime?

Like I said. It's more detailed than just capitalism vs. socialism. I'm in no way supporting socialism over capitalism. In fact, I think that for the moment, capitalism is the only system that would function adequately in this wretched world. Of course, just because it's the best here doesn't mean it's the best overall.

My argument was strictly against people in general.

-Warik

 

[danielson]

My argument was strictly against people in general.

-Warik

i was only being semi serious.....i was kinda teasing




but seriously.....dont you think the republican ideology only furthers the divide between rich and poor?

what would be your solution to providing people with what they need without charging anyone for it. eventually someone down the line is going to be unwilling to give away anything he has aquired or produced, especially if he is self sufficient

but yes, i do find it shocking a critical patient may be turned away from a hospital because he/she has the wrong insurance. and i agree with your views on peoples selfishness being very similar to the 'selfish' gene in animals, which we are supposed to be above

 

[Warik]

but seriously.....dont you think the republican ideology only furthers the divide between rich and poor?

Yes, I do. I vote Republican because I feel that the Republican party can do better things for this country than the other parties available. If someone asked me to express my political and social beliefs in one word, though? I couldn't.

what would be your solution to providing people with what they need without charging anyone for it. eventually someone down the line is going to be unwilling to give away anything he has aquired or produced, especially if he is self sufficient

Not at all. Give an example. No one "acquires" anything. There is no vast accumulation of wealth. There is no taxation to forcibly remove money from people. What do taxes mainly pay for, anyway? Healthcare, military, and social security.

Healthcare - doctors love practicing medicine, so they do. No one being forced to do anything.

Military - in a world of intelligent, peaceful, reasonable people, there is no need for a military.

Social Security - a "retirement plan" gone Ponzi. If you don't need money in your youth, why do you need it in your retirement?

but yes, i do find it shocking a critical patient may be turned away from a hospital because he/she has the wrong insurance.

Agreed. I'm good with computers and I've NEVER refused to help someone even if I would in no way benefit financially or materialistically from it. I could easily say: "oh, no... I don't know about that particular thing" or "I really need to get going."

and i agree with your views on peoples selfishness being very similar to the 'selfish' gene in animals, which we are supposed to be above

It really doesn't make sense when you think about it. Money, an artificial, human-conceived concept, is the driving force in people's lives. What should really be the driving force? For starters, how about comfort? Why did we develop the remote control? Fluffy leather couches? Luxury cars? Herman Miller Aeron office chairs? Comfort. Imagine a world where very few people have to work because most of the work is already done for us.

Imagine computers that don't require keyboards or mice because of touchscreens and voice recognition. Cars that don't require driver interaction. You can basically speak your destination and then read the morning paper. The morning paper, of course, wouldn't really be paper, since it would be available as an ever-updating image on your vehicles computer, updated through your wireless Internet connection, of course. How about your home?

"Lights on"
"Television - channel 5"
"Iced tea, cold. Begin preparing meal #3265"

And just relax until dinner time...

Wait... don't say a word. I know... I know... "that would cost a lot of money."

-Warik

 

[Norman Bates]

People are working in jobs that make them miserable just because they pay well, and people AREN'T working in jobs they love just because they DON'T pay well. Imagine a world where everyone did what they loved for a living.

.

-Warik

Don´t you think that in such a world some jobs would be left undone?
I wouldn´t be working in Burger King if i wasn´t paid and i can´t imagine any1 really have fun with that kind of job.Maybe i´m wrong but i think a lot of jobs simply suck but still have to be done.

 

[KA-BAR]

there is nothing wrong with hacking satelite tv.