Veteran Advice Requested: Test/Deca stack

[immortalis]

I posted this under another thread, however its on page 9 and I was afraid it wouldnt get too many looks so I decided to make a seperate thread. I apologize in advance for the spam.

Now, with the disclaimer taken care of...

Im currently doing my first stacked cycle ever. I have done 3 cycles previously, all with test only and have for the most part enjoyed the results. This time around, Im doing a deca/test stack on a 6 week run (i hope thats not too short...) in hope that I will pack on some decent mass.

My specs:
Male, 27 years old
I played 4 years of college football and am by no means a stranger to the gym.
Im 6 2, 190 pounds
6.2% bodyfat
I eat 3 meals a day (3-egg Bacon & Sausage & Cheese omlett for breakfast, a 6-inch sub from subway for lunch, and whatever my wife wants to eat for dinner which is usually fast food...)
I workout 4 times per week.

Im mid-week 2 on this 6 week run, and here is the schedule I am following
Week 11.0cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca
Week 21.5cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca
Week 31.5cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca
Week 42.0cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca
Week 52.5cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca
Week 61.5cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca

Like I said, I have only done 3 cycles previous to this one, so I am by all means an amatuer when it comes to the steroid department. I dont know too much about what I am doing, I just try not to do anything really stupid and put myself at unneccessary risk.

What are your opinions on this cycle overall? And what suggestions do you have for me to maximize my gains?

Thanks for your time in advance all of you. I greatly appreciate it.

 

[digimon7068]

How many ml of test do you have on hand and how mgs per ml is it?

Also, what kind of test is it?

 

[immortalis]

guess I could have included that... lol

Its Vets Inc SuperTest 260mg per CC

 

[swordfish151]

I posted this under another thread, however its on page 9 and I was afraid it wouldnt get too many looks so I decided to make a seperate thread. I apologize in advance for the spam.

Now, with the disclaimer taken care of...

Im currently doing my first stacked cycle ever. I have done 3 cycles previously, all with test only and have for the most part enjoyed the results. This time around, Im doing a deca/test stack on a 6 week run (i hope thats not too short...) in hope that I will pack on some decent mass.

My specs:
Male, 27 years old
I played 4 years of college football and am by no means a stranger to the gym.
Im 6 2, 190 pounds
6.2% bodyfat
I eat 3 meals a day (3-egg Bacon & Sausage & Cheese omlett for breakfast, a 6-inch sub from subway for lunch, and whatever my wife wants to eat for dinner which is usually fast food...)
I workout 4 times per week.

Im mid-week 2 on this 6 week run, and here is the schedule I am following
Week 11.0cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca
Week 21.5cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca
Week 31.5cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca
Week 42.0cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca
Week 52.5cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca
Week 61.5cc's of test/with 500mgs of deca

Like I said, I have only done 3 cycles previous to this one, so I am by all means an amatuer when it comes to the steroid department. I dont know too much about what I am doing, I just try not to do anything really stupid and put myself at unneccessary risk.

What are your opinions on this cycle overall? And what suggestions do you have for me to maximize my gains?

Thanks for your time in advance all of you. I greatly appreciate it.

assuming that 1cc = 250mgs then your cycle is really wrong...250mgs of test with 500mgs of deca and your wife wont like you very much...you should run 500mgs of test and 400mgs of deca...6 weeks is WAY to short...I dont like short cycles..for that kind of cycle i would run the test 10-12 weeks..and the deca 10 weeks....as far as your diet....listen carefully...DO NOT TOUCH STERIODS till you get this one down....3 meals a day...come on bro...your just going to spin your wheels...6-8 meals a day is minimum...I eat 8 meals a day cutting or bulking..and you want to gain size off this cycle..your going to have to pound down alot more food..

PS: Rammping is useless pick a dose and stick with it throughout the cycle.

 

[IronJunkey]

ya bro there is no way 3 meals is gonna hold you to any gains, espically with 6% BF, your gonna need cals to burn, and if you dont have em your gonna use your muscle, its that simple. You should know this by now..your meal intake its gonna be under 3000 a day...ouch, your better off eating how fish151 was saying...6-8 meals a day around 400-500 cals. with at least 100 carbs.(mostly before workout/noon)...your gonna have some chemicals in your body, that makes you a freak, so eat like one

 

[immortalis]

ya bro there is no way 3 meals is gonna hold you to any gains, espically with 6% BF, your gonna need cals to burn, and if you dont have em your gonna use your muscle, its that simple. You should know this by now..your meal intake its gonna be under 3000 a day...ouch, your better off eating how fish151 was saying...6-8 meals a day around 400-500 cals. with at least 100 carbs.(mostly before workout/noon)...your gonna have some chemicals in your body, that makes you a freak, so eat like one

I hear ya guys, and I completely agree. Naturally I basically have no appetite. Up until the last 6 months, for the 2 years prior I was going mainly on 2 meals a day. Its rediculas. When I was in college the most I weighed was 216 and I had to eat 5 times a day with snacks all day to get there. So I completely understand.

That being said. I've stuck to 3 meals a day for the last 6 months, and I can feel my appetite starting to get back into the groove. I definitely will make more of an effort to consistently hit that 5-6 meal mark from here on out.


I definitely was afraid this 6 week cycle would be too short and not give it enough time to kick in. Is it even worth finishing out, or should I save the rest and use when I can get ahold of some more? Its rather difficult for me to get my hands on, so that is why I only have these 2 bottles that I have right now. Getting a significant quantity to run 10-12 weeks could be a challenge. I wish I had a better idea of the duration before I started this one. I personally have never done more than a 10cc cycle prior to this, so in my head I thought I was doing a fairly good thing.

Thanks for the insight, and any added information that you feel would be usefull I definitely welcome all of it.


Thanks again-

 

[digimon7068]

guess I could have included that... lol

Its Vets Inc SuperTest 260mg per CC

Hmmm, OK. So based upon your original post, you have 10ml of test at 260mg per ml. Get another bottle, do 260mg test twice per week (e.g., Monday and Thursday) for ten weeks, cut your deca to 300mg per week (e.g., 150mg Monday and Thursday) which will take your deca out to ten weeks as well.

Increase your protien intake. . .significantly. Get a couple of 5 or 6 pound tubs of your favorite protien shake and drink down 60 to 80g's two or three times per day to bump up your intake.

It sounds like you're in pretty decent shape already so, assuming that you bust your ass in the gym and you have your PCT in place, you should get pretty nice results from this cycle. If you're concerned about estrogen (and you probably should be), get a couple of bottles AIFM from the AF Store and also have some nolva on hand (probably ought to have enough for say 12 weeks at 20mg per day. . .that way, even if you do develop a problem, you should still have enough left to use during PCT).

Also, if you're a little impatient, you may want to throw in some dbol at the beginning. . .like 25 to 40mg per day for 3 or 4 weeks. . .this isn't really necessary, though. . .just for those who would prefer to see some results before the first 3 weeks is over.

Enjoy!

 

[PolfaJelfa]

assuming that 1cc = 250mgs then your cycle is really wrong...250mgs of test with 500mgs of deca and your wife wont like you very much...you should run 500mgs of test and 400mgs of deca...6 weeks is WAY to short...I dont like short cycles..for that kind of cycle i would run the test 10-12 weeks..and the deca 10 weeks....as far as your diet....listen carefully...DO NOT TOUCH STERIODS till you get this one down....3 meals a day...come on bro...your just going to spin your wheels...6-8 meals a day is minimum...I eat 8 meals a day cutting or bulking..and you want to gain size off this cycle..your going to have to pound down alot more food..

PS: Rammping is useless pick a dose and stick with it throughout the cycle.

Very well said.

 

[ALIN]

500mg Test Enan wk
400mg Deca wk
X 10 WEEKS

 

[immortalis]

500mg Test Enan wk
400mg Deca wk
X 10 WEEKS

Thank you guys for all of your insight. I do greatly appreciate it. I wish I had access to this type of information long ago, or someone to mentor me so that I would have a lot more knowledge regarding proper cycling.

You guys have at least pushed me in the right direction.

Im going to shift my cycle to the above recommendation and extend it for 10 more weeks for a total of a 12 week cycle.

Im going to do 2 shots per week with 260mgs of test and probably 300mgs of Deca per shot which would result in 520mgs of Test and 600mgs of Deca per week(is this too much per week... specifically the Deca?)


I have looked at the AIFM link on this board and will definitely scoop some up as recommended. I do have some questions regarding clarification on how to use the product. If I understand correctly, this is a lotion that is applied directly to the skin in high-vascular related areas (only?) such as the tops of the feet/wrists/and upper-thigh areas. Is this correct? If so, when should I begin using this product? During my cycle, or only during PCT?

I have basically the same questions in regards to Nolva. I havent found a lot of information on where I can obtain this product. Is it just an oral that I can mix with something and take? It seems like everything I have read suggests mixing it with Orange Juice to take, so I am assuming its an oral liquid that you mix with something and swallow down. The same above questions apply. When should I begin using this product? And any suggestions on where I can obtain it? I assume its a legal suppliment that can be obtained fairly easily.

I have one more roadblock...and I'm not sure how comfortable some of you will be addressing it, but I need to ask anyway. I am having a BITCH of a time getting ahold of some needles. I was able to get my hands on 6 through a friend, however I get shot down everywhere else I go. When I was in college I could just go into the pharmacy and not get looked at twice. But now, anywhere I go is strictly following the prescription-only policy. Is there an online resource or anywhere that I can scoop some up? I have to do something since I am extending this cycle from 6 weeks to 12.... 2 shots per week, I am going to need 20 more for sure.

As suggested above, I am going to do my best to dramatically increase my caoloric intake. I dont have too much time before I workout besides breakfast to take in a lot of calories, but I guess I am going to have to make the time.

Thank all of you for your time. As I've said before it is greatly appreciated. You guys have really made me feel a lot more comfortable than I ever thought I would be, posting in a forum like this and I am obtaining much needed information to help me pack on some poundage.

 

[swordfish151]

Thank you guys for all of your insight. I do greatly appreciate it. I wish I had access to this type of information long ago, or someone to mentor me so that I would have a lot more knowledge regarding proper cycling.

You guys have at least pushed me in the right direction.

Im going to shift my cycle to the above recommendation and extend it for 10 more weeks for a total of a 12 week cycle.

Im going to do 2 shots per week with 260mgs of test and probably 300mgs of Deca per shot which would result in 520mgs of Test and 600mgs of Deca per week(is this too much per week... specifically the Deca?)


I have looked at the AIFM link on this board and will definitely scoop some up as recommended. I do have some questions regarding clarification on how to use the product. If I understand correctly, this is a lotion that is applied directly to the skin in high-vascular related areas (only?) such as the tops of the feet/wrists/and upper-thigh areas. Is this correct? If so, when should I begin using this product? During my cycle, or only during PCT?

I have basically the same questions in regards to Nolva. I havent found a lot of information on where I can obtain this product. Is it just an oral that I can mix with something and take? It seems like everything I have read suggests mixing it with Orange Juice to take, so I am assuming its an oral liquid that you mix with something and swallow down. The same above questions apply. When should I begin using this product? And any suggestions on where I can obtain it? I assume its a legal suppliment that can be obtained fairly easily.

I have one more roadblock...and I'm not sure how comfortable some of you will be addressing it, but I need to ask anyway. I am having a BITCH of a time getting ahold of some needles. I was able to get my hands on 6 through a friend, however I get shot down everywhere else I go. When I was in college I could just go into the pharmacy and not get looked at twice. But now, anywhere I go is strictly following the prescription-only policy. Is there an online resource or anywhere that I can scoop some up? I have to do something since I am extending this cycle from 6 weeks to 12.... 2 shots per week, I am going to need 20 more for sure.

As suggested above, I am going to do my best to dramatically increase my caoloric intake. I dont have too much time before I workout besides breakfast to take in a lot of calories, but I guess I am going to have to make the time.

Thank all of you for your time. As I've said before it is greatly appreciated. You guys have really made me feel a lot more comfortable than I ever thought I would be, posting in a forum like this and I am obtaining much needed information to help me pack on some poundage.

Well im glad we could help..lets see if we can help you a little more..as far as your cycle goes...looks good...600mgs of deca is good..but you could get away with just 400mgs a week as well...that being said..AIFM is a great product (I was one of the testers for this product before they put it out) Im using it during a cycle and with PCT...in your case and cycle i would do 2 pumps in the morning (the substance is more liquid then lotion) in your inner forearm and 2 pumps in the evening. Nolva can be used during your cycle as well in case of gyno and should be used for your PCT (Below i will give you the link to where you can obtain this.....you may want to consider obtaining a-dex (or liquidex) for your cycle...with that kind of a cycle you will bloat considerably and a-dex will help combat this. As far as pinz go.....They are very easy to obtain (link below)...and if your having a hard time getting in cals, you may want to consider adding protein shakes to your diet..im not a big fan of alot of protein shakes, BUT if you cant get a meal in..this can be substituted nicely...so say you eat 3 times Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner...well just put a shake in the middle...so Shake, breakfast, shake, Lunch, Shake, Dinner and maybe some cottage cheese before bed....I hope this helped some.

Link to Liquidex and Nolvadex (AG GUYS ARE THE BEST)

http://www.ag-guys.com/home.html

Pinz (CANT EVER GO WRONG WITH GETPINZ OR OUR SPONSOR ANDROUSA.com)

http://getpinz.com/

For protien powder (not sure what your using..but these guys have good prices)

http://www.supplementdirect.com/

 

[immortalis]

Thanks a ton Fish

The information you provided helps me so much. I just placed an order for some Pinz, so I have that hurdle easily out of the way. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction there.

I also just placed an order for 2 more bottles of Test and one more of Deca so I should have plenty to complete this 12 week cycle... I might even end up pushing it to 14 weeks *shrug*.

I definitely need to up my protien/caloric intake, and like you suggested I have entertained the thought of using some protien shakes to suppliment my meals. However I HATE shakes... but its a step that obviously needs to be taken. My schedule makes it a little difficult to squeeze a meal in here, and a shake in there.

I wake up at 5, and I work from 6 to 3, and I head immediately to the gym at that point. Im going to have to explain to my wife that "I have to use the blender at 5am honey, im sorry!", lol... that should be fun.

I appreciate your info on the NOLVA and AIFM subjects. I will try and scoop up both of those in the next couple of weeks and begin use immediately.


I can not express how much I appreciate everyone being willing to help me quickly and effectively here. It makes me feel a lot more comfortable messing around with AS's and has me actually a lot more excited now that I am getting advice from experienced individuals who want me to put on as much weight as possible while staying healthy.

Thanks again, as always.

 

[swordfish151]

Thanks a ton Fish

The information you provided helps me so much. I just placed an order for some Pinz, so I have that hurdle easily out of the way. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction there.

I also just placed an order for 2 more bottles of Test and one more of Deca so I should have plenty to complete this 12 week cycle... I might even end up pushing it to 14 weeks *shrug*.

I definitely need to up my protien/caloric intake, and like you suggested I have entertained the thought of using some protien shakes to suppliment my meals. However I HATE shakes... but its a step that obviously needs to be taken. My schedule makes it a little difficult to squeeze a meal in here, and a shake in there.

I wake up at 5, and I work from 6 to 3, and I head immediately to the gym at that point. Im going to have to explain to my wife that "I have to use the blender at 5am honey, im sorry!", lol... that should be fun.

I appreciate your info on the NOLVA and AIFM subjects. I will try and scoop up both of those in the next couple of weeks and begin use immediately.


I can not express how much I appreciate everyone being willing to help me quickly and effectively here. It makes me feel a lot more comfortable messing around with AS's and has me actually a lot more excited now that I am getting advice from experienced individuals who want me to put on as much weight as possible while staying healthy.

Thanks again, as always.

Stick with a 12 week cycle....that should be suffecient..no need to go 14 weeks.. as far as your diet goes...you really dont need a blender for a shake at all....buy yourself one of those 25oz shake mixers....when you wake up..first thing..head to your kitchen put 2 scoops of protein powder in it...(since your really lean) add 2 cups of 2% milk in it..shake and enjoy...i really cant remember the last time i used a blender..in a rare occasion that i feel like mixing stuff with it...but other then that..i just add powder/liquid..shake and enjoy....when your at work..just buy some sandwich bags and put your powder in there to take with you..for your mid morning snack bust out your shaker and powder/milk...its a meal in less then a minute!! So its really not that hard to get in the meals....should be no excuses

 

[immortalis]

You're right... no excuses with that. Since you've been so helpful, and you've even given me a link to a recommended supplement site, do you have any recommendation on a specific supplement(s) that I should go ahead and scoop up?

I ussually have 2 cups of whole milk in the morning, so grabbing another in the morning to shake some stuff up with wont be difficult.

And I will go ahead and stick to the 12 weeks. The only reason I thought about extending it another 2 weeks is because I have a feeling that these 2 weeks ive already done have been pretty much for nothing.

first week I did 260mgs of tst with 500mgs deca. Second week 390mgs of test with the same 500mgs of deca. So I should just continue on for the next 10 weeks as we talked about previously, and just finish up that way in your opinion?

 

[swordfish151]

You're right... no excuses with that. Since you've been so helpful, and you've even given me a link to a recommended supplement site, do you have any recommendation on a specific supplement(s) that I should go ahead and scoop up?

I ussually have 2 cups of whole milk in the morning, so grabbing another in the morning to shake some stuff up with wont be difficult.

And I will go ahead and stick to the 12 weeks. The only reason I thought about extending it another 2 weeks is because I have a feeling that these 2 weeks ive already done have been pretty much for nothing.

first week I did 260mgs of tst with 500mgs deca. Second week 390mgs of test with the same 500mgs of deca. So I should just continue on for the next 10 weeks as we talked about previously, and just finish up that way in your opinion?

Just continue with what your doing..adjusting now is what counts..so you dont need to extend it for another 2 weeks...but you could..not saying you cant..that would be up to you...as far as supplements...i like optimum whey protein ... tastes great...what i put in my PWO shake is 2 scoops powder, dextrose and 5 grams of powder glutamine...so you may want to look into dextrose, glutamine along with your protein of choice..keep in mind though that the dextrose should only be used for PWO shakes...thats it!

 

[1392477]

You don't need to wake your wife with the blender - get a shaker bottle from your local supplement store and use it instead.

I have found The Vitamin Shoppe is a good source and pretty good prices - much better than GNC.

ON 100% Whey Protein (Gold Standard) is one of the better protein drinks out there and it's PRO/FAT ration is favorable and the taste is actually pretty good. I mix 1 - 2 per day with nonfat milk. It will yield about 27 grams of protein per serving and is quite enjoyable.

Experiment with small sizes of protein powders until you find one you like - I was stuck eating a 5# tub of one that tasted like crap.

 

[immortalis]

Taste isnt too big of a deal to me. Im a pretty sure I can chug down anything that might taste remotely bad in just 2 cups of milk. That being said, i just wanna make sure that I am getting the best product I can. And almost all of this is new to me. I've done protien shakes in the past... and hated them. But that was a LONG time ago and a very very thick shake. In college all I ever did was drink a couple of Ensure's a day, and take a scoop of creatine.

Im gonna scoop up some Glutamine and Whey Protien Isolate for pre-workout shakes, and then snag some Dextrose to add for my PWO shake and give those a try.

Whats the diff between LiquiDex and Nolva?... should I just stick to the Nolva?



Any more suggestions?! Im like a sponge right now... soakin up all the info

 

[swordfish151]

Taste isnt too big of a deal to me. Im a pretty sure I can chug down anything that might taste remotely bad in just 2 cups of milk. That being said, i just wanna make sure that I am getting the best product I can. And almost all of this is new to me. I've done protien shakes in the past... and hated them. But that was a LONG time ago and a very very thick shake. In college all I ever did was drink a couple of Ensure's a day, and take a scoop of creatine.

Im gonna scoop up some Glutamine and Whey Protien Isolate for pre-workout shakes, and then snag some Dextrose to add for my PWO shake and give those a try.

Whats the diff between LiquiDex and Nolva?... should I just stick to the Nolva?



Any more suggestions?! Im like a sponge right now... soakin up all the info

Liquidex is A-dex but in liquid form:

Anastrozole (Arimidex) is the aromatase inhibitor of choice. The drug is appropriately used when using substantial amounts of aromatizing products in rat research. Arimidex does not have the side effects of aminoglutethimide (Cytadren) and can achieve a high degree of estrogen blockade, much moreso than Cytadren. It is possible to reduce estrogen too much with Arimidex, and for this reason blood tests, or less preferably salivary tests, should be taken after the first week of research to determine if the dosing is correct - usually by looking at the rate one can tell.

As an aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex's mechanism of action -- blocking conversion of aromatizable steroids to estrogen -- is in contrast to the mechanism of action of anti-estrogens such as clomiphene (Clomid) or tamoxifen (Nolvadex), which block estrogen receptors in some tissues, and activate estrogen receptors in others.


Nolva (or Liquinolva)

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) is very comparable to Clomid, behaves in the same manner in all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same type as Clomid. The two molecules are also very similar in structure.

It is not correct that Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) reduces levels of estrogen: rather, it blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors and, in those tissues where it is an antagonist, causes the receptor to do nothing.