Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Vegetarian Body builders
- Thread starter OneWorldOrder.Org
- Start date
I'm not a vegetarian...
But I can't believe the amount of effort some of you guys are putting into flaming those that are...
why do you care if the guy's a vegetarian?...just means there is more meat for you
are you going to flame all Hindus because they don't eat beef?...maybe you should flame all jews who don't eat non-Kosher...don't forget to flame all the Muslims who don't eat pork
I'm sure there's some meat product that YOU won't eat...do you like raw oysters?...crawfish?...sushi?...how about horsemeat?
But I can't believe the amount of effort some of you guys are putting into flaming those that are...
why do you care if the guy's a vegetarian?...just means there is more meat for you
are you going to flame all Hindus because they don't eat beef?...maybe you should flame all jews who don't eat non-Kosher...don't forget to flame all the Muslims who don't eat pork
I'm sure there's some meat product that YOU won't eat...do you like raw oysters?...crawfish?...sushi?...how about horsemeat?
Gentlemen,
I think this is an interesting topic. I also think that Soy Isolate is a better protein than whey.
Here's an article I wrote a while back on Soy protein. We used to carry a Soy protein that was really state of the art because it was 100% isolate and was agglomerated and lecithinated.
Unfortunately, it did not sell well, because athletes and bodybuilders in particular think that soy is a "feminine" protein and whey is a "masculine" protein. This is crazy I know, but that's how it is.
Now, let's try not to resort to name calling. I am always interested in a discussion on protein theory, and I truly believe you guys have too much class for that.
Yours in sport,
George
Dear friends and fellow athletes,
If you remember many years ago, weight gainers were the big thing and
protein powders were out! Then, in like a storm came the "low calorie"
weight gainers (yeah right!) and the criticism of the high calorie diet.
Right after this came the inundation of whey protein. Here's the trend:
promote something, then dispel it, promote it again, then dispel it. This
way, the supplement companies always have something "new" to bring to the
market. I predict that soon, there will be a resurgence in the high
calorie diet. I'm sure it will be slightly modified, but a high calorie
diet nonetheless.
Most supplement companies do not really care what the truth about
supplements really is -- they will promote what is "hot". Translation:
what has the lowest production costs, and the greatest money-making
potential. Back to protein powders -- is whey really the king protein? And
are you getting what you pay for? The answer is that you've been misled
again.
In this issue of Elite Fitness News, we'll take a close look at whey
protein and how it compares to other proteins -- soy protein in
particular. We'll look at how in many ways it is not the superior protein
that the bodybuilding magazines would lead you to believe. We'll look at
the following:
1. BV vs PDCAAS BV (Biological Value) vs PDCAAS (Protein Digestibility
Corrected Amino Acid Score).
2. A brief history of Soy-Protein Isolate.
3. Soy Protein Isolate put to the Test
4. Glutamine: Which protein has the most.
5. Protein Concentrate vs. Protein Isolate
6. Soy Protein Isolate for body-builders
7. Soy Protein Isolate for Dieters
8. The Health Benefits of Soy Isolate
9. Mass Quantities Soy Isolate Deluxe: A special offer!
I guarantee that after reading this newsletter, you'll never look at
proteins the same way again. I also guarantee that the information in this
letter will save you money and help you get closer to finding the ultimate
protein source for building a hard lean muscular physique.
Enjoy.
Yours in sport,
George Spellwin
Elite Fitness: Online Bodybuilding Magazine:
http://www.elitefitness.com
The Most Controversial Bodybuilding Site on the Internet.
217 West 18th Street, P.O. Box 1264, New York, NY 10113-1264
George Spellwin [email protected]
Research Director phone: 212-823-1000
Whey vs. Soy -- You've been tricked.
If you read any of the bodybuilding magazines for the last few years now,
it is hard not to notice the concerted effort that the publishers have
made to push whey protein as bodybuilding's superior protein source.
You've seen the claims and the hype, "biological value of 168--over 50%
better that egg protein," "ion-exchanged," "richest source of glutamine,"
and the list goes on and on. What many bodybuilders do not realize, is
that this hype is just that - hype. Much of what you have heard about
whey's superiority as a protein source is just plain untrue. Let's take a
closer look.
Most people do not realize whey protein's humble origins. Originally, whey
was a by-product of cheese production. Cheese is mostly fat and casein. In
the cheese making process, whey was a left over by-product, and it was
simply poured down the drain. Now, that was some time ago - back then, the
manufacturers thought, wouldn't it be nice if we could find a way to sell
the waste and make some money out of it. And the stuff was cheap as could
be. Maybe they thought, "we'll sell it to bodybuilders! They'll eat
(believe) anything." And the rest is history.
History has repeated itself for the other sources of protein as well, when
eggs were cheap, they were the preferred protein, now that they are not
quite the bargain they once were, they are no longer in vogue. Later on,
dairy subsidies made milk casein pricing more attractive, so it then
became the star. Then along came whey, and you know the rest of the story.
1. BV (Biological Value) vs PDCAAS Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino
Acid Score).
Several studies have been done to assess any differences in weight gain
between individuals supplementing with whey protein, soy protein, or egg
protein. SURPRISE, SURPRISE! There were NO differences whatsoever
(statistically speaking) between the effectiveness of the proteins.
Remember, all three of these proteins are designed to stimulate growth--
albeit in chicks, calves, etc. So, is one really better than another? Not
according to the weight gained in the studies. Proponents of whey say that
it has an ultra high BV (biological value), exceeding by far every other
protein. One manufacturer even claims that their protein has a BV of 168--
over 50% better that egg protein!
Scoring Protein by BV is the first area where the bodybuilding public is
being deceived and manipulated. Elite Fitness has researched this topic
rather thoroughly and has talked to experts in the field who work for the
actual companies which manufacture and process the raw, bulk products. I
have questioned several experts as to the quality of the various proteins
and have found a few interesting facts. First and foremost, BV and PER
(protein efficiency ratio) are OUTDATED. The newest and most accurate
measurement of a protein's quality for a HUMAN is the PDCAAS--Protein
Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score. A mouthful I know, and yet it is
the industry standard.
According to the PDCAAS scale, whey is not necessarily the best protein.
In fact, soy and whey are both considered a ONE (top score) on the scale.
Does this mean that both of these proteins are equal? Not at all--I will
discuss the pros and cons of each protein later in the article. What it
does mean is that either will supply the BASIC BUILDING BLOCKS for muscle
tissue growth and recuperation as well as the next one.
2. A brief history of Soy-Protein Isolate.
The first thing that I do when a consultation client asks me about
Mass Quantities' Soy Isolate Deluxe protein is to ask them to forget
whatever they have heard about soy protein. Soy has received a bad
reputation in recent years because it is a protein source that comes
entirely from soybeans. Since soy is derived from a plant source, it
has been viewed as an inferior and incomplete protein. It also
doesn't help that its two greatest consumers in the U.S. today are
vegetarians and people with milk allergies such as lactose
intolerance; not exactly the type of people you expect to see
squatting 500-lbs reps at your local gym.
Soy protein powders first came on the market as a food supplement
around 20 years ago in the form of soy protein concentrate. At that
time, soy protein concentrate was about 70% protein by weight. This
protein was loaded with carbohydrates, sodium, and had a poor amino
acid profile that made it inefficient for use as a quality muscle
building supplement.
The production and development of soy protein changed dramatically
over the following decade with the introduction of isolation.
Isolation is a method of extracting the soy protein from the beans and
concentrating it to make it far more useful to the body than the old
soy concentrate. This new product is called soy protein isolate and
contained over 90% protein.
3. Soy Protein Isolate put to the Test
This new soy-protein isolate looked fantastic on paper. Imagine a
food supplement that contains over 90% protein by weight with near
zero amounts of carbohydrates and fats. In addition, soy-protein
isolate could be manufactured for a fraction of the cost of other
protein sources. This is due to the U.S. producing more than $15
billion worth of soybeans each year for use as foodstuffs for animals
and humans. The biggest question however was how efficiently would
your body use this soy-isolate as a protein source?
In 1989, soy protein was put to the test to see how it stacked up
against other proteins on a scale of protein quality. The most
advanced protein-quality measurement scale is the Protein
Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS). The highest PDCAAS
score possible is 1.0. Any protein with a score of 1.0 is considered
complete for use by the human body. Soy was tested along with egg
white, casein (derivative of milk protein), beef, and a variety of
beans to determine their PDCAAS rating. Soy-protein isolate, along
with egg white, whey, and casein proteins, came back with a perfect
1.0 score. Interestingly enough, beef scored only a .92 while kidney
beans came in highest among the beans with a .68 rating.
But what about hydrolization (breaking the proteins into smaller fractions
like "di and tri peptides") couldn't this make whey into the superior
product that it is supposed to be? What we found was that the hydrolyzed
whey promotes less nitrogen retention than a similar non-hydrolyzed whey
(a bad thing for a bodybuilder because a positive nitrogen balance is a
must for anabolic muscle gain.) As a note: the hydrolyzed product that we
studied was the BEST in the industry with a 27% hydrolization, no bitter
taste, and at a cost from the manufacturer of greater than $8.00 per
pound! Rest assured, NO manufacturer is selling a whey product where the
raw materials for the protein cost anywhere close to $8 per pound.
Consider the above and you will quickly realize that supplement companies
(who don't actually manufacture the whey but buy the raw product from an
actual manufacturer) are telling "some fibs" about whey protein. BV of
168--ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS! Real whey manufacturers sometimes still use BV
to grade protein, and they always rate whey protein as a 94 BV! When you
see a 168 BV claim listed on the label of several manufacturers' whey
protein, just turn your head, know you're being scammed, and absolutely
don't buy!
Now let's consider the other claims and statements about the di-and tri-
peptides, about glutamine, and about the BCAAs (Branch Chain Amino Acids).
If hydrolization doesn't further increase nitrogen retention, then what is
the point of breaking protein into its smaller fractions like di- and tri-
peptides? There IS a good reason for hydrolyzing a protein and having
short peptides but it has nothing to do with BV/nitrogen retention.
Instead, it has everything to do with how FAST and EASY the product is
absorbed in the gut. Regular, undigested whey will be broken down into di-
and tri-peptides via enzymes in a person's gut and will be absorbed as
such. The caveat is that the whole process just takes a little longer.
Hydrolyzed products are basically only useful in baby food or hospital
situations where a person's digestive system is not functioning optimally
or when protein delivery is needed very quickly.
Is there any benefit of a hydrolyzed product for the bodybuilder? To tell
you the truth, I would have to say NO -- except possibly for the benefit
of having a quickly absorbed protein immediately after a workout to ensure
the muscle tissue is flooded with nutrients in a timely manner albeit with
a nitrogen penalty. Interestingly, this entire argument about hydrolized
protein is academic as it is not currently sold on the market. Here's
why. One, the cost of hydrolyzed whey is outrageous and two, its taste is
ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Trust me, if you're want to induce vomiting, just
take a little hydrolyzed whey protein!
4. Glutamine: Which protein has the most.
Isn't the claim true about whey having significantly higher amounts of
glutamine and BCAAs? Sorry, but NO! Whey does have the highest amounts of
BCAAs of any protein but NOT SIGNIFICANTLY higher amounts. When it comes
to the amounts of glutamine, soy beats whey hands down. For every 100
grams of protein, whey has 20.1 grams of BCAAs and 4.9 grams of glutamine.
Maybe to your surprise, soy has 18.1 grams of BCAAs and a whopping 10.5
grams of glutamine! Again, we have been lied to and deceived.
5. Protein Concentrate vs. Protein Isolate
Most companies are selling whey protein concentrate (WPC) and saying that
their product is whey protein isolate. Ion exchange protein really doesn't
mean anything in terms of the quality of the protein powder as a whole!
Any high quality, pure protein will be labeled an ISOLATE and this is what
you MUST look for. A true ion-exchange process CAN yield a good isolate
but it is not the only process available for getting a superior whey
protein. An isolate will have very little fat and lactose and will be
about 90% protein (the protein fractions are "isolated" from the rest of
the material).
On the other hand, a WPC made through protein filtration is vastly
inferior to an isolate with about 7% fat and lactose and only 75% protein
(The actual protein in WPC is usually pretty good, but who wants to deal
with all of the fat and lactose?) Interestingly, WPC costs less than half
of what an isolate costs. Unfortunately, both products look and taste
about the same so it becomes very hard to know what you have--you
basically have to trust the manufacturer (supplement company) of the
particular product.
Here's the picture--the industry through various articles in muscle
magazines touts the benefits and characteristics of a whey protein ISOLATE
and turns around and uses a CONCENTRATE. Tell me, who's the wiser? The
supplement companies, that's who, and they're a whole lot richer to boot!
Some manufacturers will put 98% WPC in their product and then put in 1% of
a hydrolyzed product (remember this tastes horrible!) and 1% of an
isolate. Then, they can legally claim all types of stuff on their label--
di and tri peptides, ion-exchange, blah, blah, blah!
What about the other available proteins--egg, casein, and soy? How do
these compare? First, let me state that all of the above proteins are
decent if processed correctly. Each will provide the body very efficiently
with the protein that it "needs". I would definitely stay away from casein
and egg white. Casein has been shown to have detrimental effects on a
person's cholesterol profile and egg white protein tastes poorly, is
expensive, and consists of about 10% carbohydrates.
Before you say it, I know your response--"That's all wonderful, but what
is the best protein for me, a bodybuilder/weightlifter?" If you were to
use any ONE protein source then I would have to say that it's a toss up
between a soy isolate and a whey ISOLATE (you know, the one that no one
can buy.) WPC provides a good protein; however the accompanying fat and
carbs is something you do not want. If I had a choice, I would pick a soy
isolate. A soy isolate is inexpensive, has the highest score on the
PCDAAS, is very soluble if instantized, is extremely bland (a good thing),
IMPROVES kidney function (unlike any other protein), is anticarcinogenic,
is anti-estrogenic, lowers LDL (bad) and raises HDL (good) cholesterol,
IMPROVES THYROID FUNCTION, etc, etc--the list goes on and on. But best of
all, unlike whey isolate, pure soy isolates exist. Mass Quantities Soy
Isolate Deluxe is a perfect example.
Some time ago, Mass Quantities set out to find the best overall protein
supplement on the market. MQ researched and experimented with every
protein source available. After intense trials, they came to the
conclusion that Soy Isolate protein displays more positive effects than
any other protein source on the planet. Mass Quantities Soy Isolate Deluxe
protein is the most beneficial protein available to bodybuilders. With 24
grams of protein, 0 carbs, and only 1 gram of fat, soy isolate is the
premier protein for lean muscle building in conjunction with fat loss.
Soy protein isolate displays more advantages to the bodybuilder than any
other protein source available, including the almighty whey. Soy Isolate
Deluxe does everything from increasing thyroid production to helping in
the prevention of cancer. Just take a look at all the benefits of Soy
Isolate Deluxe:
6. Soy Protein Isolate benefits for Bodybuilders
Animal research suggests some great advantages of using soy protein
isolate as a bodybuilding supplement. Research has shown that the
isoflavone daidzein found in soy-protein isolate might have a gender
specific normalizing effect on sex-hormone production. Lab animals
experienced testosterone and growth hormone excretion as well as muscle
growth in males, while the female animals experienced a decrease in these
hormones and fat loss.
Daidzein, which is concentrated in Mass Quantities Chrysin Deluxe, is also
found in Mass Quantities Soy Isolate Deluxe. Daidzein is a key isoflavone
found in soy that acts as a potent phyto-estrogen. It is structurally a
very weak "pseudo-estrogen" (about 1000 times weaker than the body's
primary estrogen estradiol). This is good news to the bodybuilder because
weak estrogens like daidzein will compete with stronger estrogens like
estradiol for available receptor sites to "bind" to. By binding to the
receptor sites daidzein then "blocks" the stronger estrogens from binding
to and activating receptor sites. With the daidzein isolflavone attached,
estrogen receptor sites remain inactive. This inactivity further minimizes
the negative effects of estrogen in the body. Many researchers believe
this effect is the reason soy protein is linked to a reduction in the risk
for many forms of breast, endometrial, and prostate cancer. This mechanism
works similarly to the prescription drug Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate)--an
anti-estrogen staple in the bodybuilding community.
This research also indicates that the soy-protein isolates may reduce
nitrogen loss and keep you in a positive nitrogen balance to better
facilitate muscle growth. The human body can only repair and build
muscles when it has a positive nitrogen balance.
Of particular interest to the bodybuilder is Soy Isolates high
concentration of the amino acids glutamine and arginine. These two aminos
are extremely important to a body builder for their ability to release
growth hormone, aid in immune system functions, and for their ability to
speed muscle cell recovery.
Table 1. Glutamine (per 100g)
Soy 10.5g
Milk Protein 8.8g
Whey 4.9g
Many bodybuilders understand the importance of the essential amino acid L-
glutamine to their muscle building supplementation. What many
bodybuilders don't know is that soy protein isolate has the highest
concentration of glutamine among protein sources-over twice that of whey
protein! (7) Glutamine has been used for years in hospitals to speed
muscle cell recovery and improve maintenance of muscle mass during periods
of starvation, infection, and exercise trauma. (8) Glutamine
supplementation has been shown to promote muscle glycogen accumulation,
which has been linked to an increase in muscle protein synthesis. (10)
Glutamine has also shown the ability to increase muscle cell volume
through the process of cellular hydration. (11) Glutamine supplementation
in as little as 2 grams per day has been shown to increase plasma growth
hormone levels. This increase in growth hormone has been shown to help
shift the fuel for muscle from glucose to fatty acids. (9) Research has
suggested that a bodybuilder should consume between 8 - 15 grams of
glutamine each day. Supplementing 3-5 grams of glutamine 3 times per day
has been shown to elicit a positive response without stimulating the
excretion of glutamine in the urine.
Table 2. Arginine (per 100g)
Soy 7.6g
Beef 6.3g
Egg 5.8g
Cassein 3.7g
Whey 2.9g
L-Arginine is another important amino acid with respects to body building.
Arginine plays several roles in the body such as fighting mental and
physical fatigue, but its main job is to assist with growth. This amino
acid promotes the release of two highly anabolic hormones, insulin and
growth hormone. Arginine promotes gains further by assisting in recovery
from post workout muscle trauma through its ability to speed tissue
healing. This amino acid aids in the detoxification of the liver by
removing ammonium from the body. Arginine has also shown the ability to
lower LDL cholesterol and triglyceride levels in the blood. Arginine is
used in the medical treatment of angina, congestive heart failure, male
infertility and wound healing. Soy isolate protein contains higher
amounts of this important amino acid than any other protein source.
As a hard training bodybuilder, your body needs protein every 2 -2 1/2
hours even if you may not think you need it. The human body does not
store protein long term as it does for fat and carbohydrates. Instead,
your body holds amino acids in three pools that provide the body's
necessary protein for fuel. These pools are constantly in a state of flux
and are replenished either from dietary protein or the breakdown of
muscle. It is extremely important to keep these amino acid pools topped
off through the feeding of protein every 2 - 2 1/2 hours. When feeding
stops, there is a fall in protein synthesis and a rise in protein
breakdown. This translates into a loss of lean body mass after extended
periods without protein.
7. Soy Protein Isolate for Dieters
For years, bodybuilding gurus have recommended the use of soy protein for
pre-contest bodybuilders who need to shed body fat while keeping as much
lean muscle as possible. Normally when the body is forced into a low
calorie diet program, it reacts by slowing down your metabolic rate. This
will make it increasingly more difficult to lose body fat. Soy-protein
isolate helps lessen this effect through several different pathways.
First, soy-protein isolate has been found to enhance endogenous production
of thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), thyroxin (T4), and triiodothyronine
(T3). Thyroxin is the main player in the regulation of your metabolic
rate. The more thyroxin you have the faster your metabolism will be.
A faster metabolism insures that more of the food you eat will be used as
fuel and less will be stored as fat, an important advantage to any dieter.
Another way soy accelerates fat loss is with its unique concentration of
amino acids. Soy-protein isolate has the highest concentration of amino
acids in what is called the "critical cluster". This cluster of amino
acids contains the three branch chain amino acids (BCAA's) and two
essential aminos - glutamine and arginine. These critical amino acids
help a bodybuilder spare muscle while losing body fat during a pre-contest
diet. Any time you diet, your body tries to break down muscle glycogen in
an effort to provide the body with more calories. In fact, your body will
often try to use broken down muscle for fuel before it uses stored body
fat. This is called muscle catabolism or muscle breakdown. These three
branch chain amino acids are the first amino acids that are used for fuel
when your body begins muscle catabolism. If you have a high amount of
these branch chain amino acids in your diet, your body will first use
these for fuel before it breaks down your stored muscle.
8. The Health Benefits of Soy Isolate
Now that we know that soy is a quality protein source, what health
benefits can soy protein bring to its consumer? The intake of soyfoods
has long been associated with a reduced risk for certain cancers.
Research has suggested that phytic acid and protease inhibitors, two of
the nonnutritive compounds in soybeans, contribute to the observed
anticarcinogenic effects of consuming soy. (1) Residents of the United
States and the United Kingdom, as a whole, consume the smallest amounts of
soyfoods but have the highest instances of breast and prostate cancer.
Japanese residents in comparison are the largest consumers of soyfoods and
have the lowest instances of these cancers. (3) Researchers point to the
isoflavones genistein and daidzein, which are found exclusively in soy and
soy protein isolate, as the major components behind soy's anti-
carcinogenic effects. (2)
Soy protein isolate has shown the ability to promote bone health, which in
turn aids in the prevention of Osteoporosis. Osteoporosis is a chronic
disease characterized by a decrease in bone density, which results in
abnormally porous and fragile bones. It has been suggested that a high
protein diet may increase the excretion of calcium in the urine, which can
lead to this health condition. Studies have shown that not all proteins
have the same effect on calcium excretion. Compared with animal protein,
soy does not result in an increased loss of calcium in the urine thus
promoting a more optimal calcium balance. (4) In addition, the
isoflavones in soy protein have been shown to increase both bone mineral
content and bone mineral density which will improve the health of
abnormally porous bones. (5)
Soy protein isolate has shown the ability to effectively lower LDL
cholesterol and triglyceride levels in the blood. Experts agree that
these cholesterol-lowering effects can be achieved through the consumption
of as little as 25 grams of soy isolate protein each day. The experts
point to the high levels of the amino acid arginine for this lipid
lowering effect. (6) LDL cholesterol is one of the primary factors behind
progressive atherosclerosis. This medical condition is caused by the
progressive build up of plaque that clogs blood flow in the arteries.
Soy protein has also shown the ability to improve kidney function. While
scientists agree that the high protein intake of bodybuilders is necessary
for proper muscle building and repair, they also agree that this diet will
place additional stress on the kidneys. Studies of both humans and
animals have shown that soy proteins filter more easily in the kidneys
thereby reducing their workload. In 1993, a study was performed on the
Romanian Olympic swimming and rowing teams. In this study, the athletes
were supplemented with 1.5 grams per kg of bodyweight of soy protein along
with their dietary protein (2 grams per kg of bodyweight) per day. This
additional protein showed no detrimental effects on kidney function and
actually showed from 5 to 46 percent improvement in kidney function.
I think this is an interesting topic. I also think that Soy Isolate is a better protein than whey.
Here's an article I wrote a while back on Soy protein. We used to carry a Soy protein that was really state of the art because it was 100% isolate and was agglomerated and lecithinated.
Unfortunately, it did not sell well, because athletes and bodybuilders in particular think that soy is a "feminine" protein and whey is a "masculine" protein. This is crazy I know, but that's how it is.
Now, let's try not to resort to name calling. I am always interested in a discussion on protein theory, and I truly believe you guys have too much class for that.
Yours in sport,
George
Dear friends and fellow athletes,
If you remember many years ago, weight gainers were the big thing and
protein powders were out! Then, in like a storm came the "low calorie"
weight gainers (yeah right!) and the criticism of the high calorie diet.
Right after this came the inundation of whey protein. Here's the trend:
promote something, then dispel it, promote it again, then dispel it. This
way, the supplement companies always have something "new" to bring to the
market. I predict that soon, there will be a resurgence in the high
calorie diet. I'm sure it will be slightly modified, but a high calorie
diet nonetheless.
Most supplement companies do not really care what the truth about
supplements really is -- they will promote what is "hot". Translation:
what has the lowest production costs, and the greatest money-making
potential. Back to protein powders -- is whey really the king protein? And
are you getting what you pay for? The answer is that you've been misled
again.
In this issue of Elite Fitness News, we'll take a close look at whey
protein and how it compares to other proteins -- soy protein in
particular. We'll look at how in many ways it is not the superior protein
that the bodybuilding magazines would lead you to believe. We'll look at
the following:
1. BV vs PDCAAS BV (Biological Value) vs PDCAAS (Protein Digestibility
Corrected Amino Acid Score).
2. A brief history of Soy-Protein Isolate.
3. Soy Protein Isolate put to the Test
4. Glutamine: Which protein has the most.
5. Protein Concentrate vs. Protein Isolate
6. Soy Protein Isolate for body-builders
7. Soy Protein Isolate for Dieters
8. The Health Benefits of Soy Isolate
9. Mass Quantities Soy Isolate Deluxe: A special offer!
I guarantee that after reading this newsletter, you'll never look at
proteins the same way again. I also guarantee that the information in this
letter will save you money and help you get closer to finding the ultimate
protein source for building a hard lean muscular physique.
Enjoy.
Yours in sport,
George Spellwin
Elite Fitness: Online Bodybuilding Magazine:
http://www.elitefitness.com
The Most Controversial Bodybuilding Site on the Internet.
217 West 18th Street, P.O. Box 1264, New York, NY 10113-1264
George Spellwin [email protected]
Research Director phone: 212-823-1000
Whey vs. Soy -- You've been tricked.
If you read any of the bodybuilding magazines for the last few years now,
it is hard not to notice the concerted effort that the publishers have
made to push whey protein as bodybuilding's superior protein source.
You've seen the claims and the hype, "biological value of 168--over 50%
better that egg protein," "ion-exchanged," "richest source of glutamine,"
and the list goes on and on. What many bodybuilders do not realize, is
that this hype is just that - hype. Much of what you have heard about
whey's superiority as a protein source is just plain untrue. Let's take a
closer look.
Most people do not realize whey protein's humble origins. Originally, whey
was a by-product of cheese production. Cheese is mostly fat and casein. In
the cheese making process, whey was a left over by-product, and it was
simply poured down the drain. Now, that was some time ago - back then, the
manufacturers thought, wouldn't it be nice if we could find a way to sell
the waste and make some money out of it. And the stuff was cheap as could
be. Maybe they thought, "we'll sell it to bodybuilders! They'll eat
(believe) anything." And the rest is history.
History has repeated itself for the other sources of protein as well, when
eggs were cheap, they were the preferred protein, now that they are not
quite the bargain they once were, they are no longer in vogue. Later on,
dairy subsidies made milk casein pricing more attractive, so it then
became the star. Then along came whey, and you know the rest of the story.
1. BV (Biological Value) vs PDCAAS Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino
Acid Score).
Several studies have been done to assess any differences in weight gain
between individuals supplementing with whey protein, soy protein, or egg
protein. SURPRISE, SURPRISE! There were NO differences whatsoever
(statistically speaking) between the effectiveness of the proteins.
Remember, all three of these proteins are designed to stimulate growth--
albeit in chicks, calves, etc. So, is one really better than another? Not
according to the weight gained in the studies. Proponents of whey say that
it has an ultra high BV (biological value), exceeding by far every other
protein. One manufacturer even claims that their protein has a BV of 168--
over 50% better that egg protein!
Scoring Protein by BV is the first area where the bodybuilding public is
being deceived and manipulated. Elite Fitness has researched this topic
rather thoroughly and has talked to experts in the field who work for the
actual companies which manufacture and process the raw, bulk products. I
have questioned several experts as to the quality of the various proteins
and have found a few interesting facts. First and foremost, BV and PER
(protein efficiency ratio) are OUTDATED. The newest and most accurate
measurement of a protein's quality for a HUMAN is the PDCAAS--Protein
Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score. A mouthful I know, and yet it is
the industry standard.
According to the PDCAAS scale, whey is not necessarily the best protein.
In fact, soy and whey are both considered a ONE (top score) on the scale.
Does this mean that both of these proteins are equal? Not at all--I will
discuss the pros and cons of each protein later in the article. What it
does mean is that either will supply the BASIC BUILDING BLOCKS for muscle
tissue growth and recuperation as well as the next one.
2. A brief history of Soy-Protein Isolate.
The first thing that I do when a consultation client asks me about
Mass Quantities' Soy Isolate Deluxe protein is to ask them to forget
whatever they have heard about soy protein. Soy has received a bad
reputation in recent years because it is a protein source that comes
entirely from soybeans. Since soy is derived from a plant source, it
has been viewed as an inferior and incomplete protein. It also
doesn't help that its two greatest consumers in the U.S. today are
vegetarians and people with milk allergies such as lactose
intolerance; not exactly the type of people you expect to see
squatting 500-lbs reps at your local gym.
Soy protein powders first came on the market as a food supplement
around 20 years ago in the form of soy protein concentrate. At that
time, soy protein concentrate was about 70% protein by weight. This
protein was loaded with carbohydrates, sodium, and had a poor amino
acid profile that made it inefficient for use as a quality muscle
building supplement.
The production and development of soy protein changed dramatically
over the following decade with the introduction of isolation.
Isolation is a method of extracting the soy protein from the beans and
concentrating it to make it far more useful to the body than the old
soy concentrate. This new product is called soy protein isolate and
contained over 90% protein.
3. Soy Protein Isolate put to the Test
This new soy-protein isolate looked fantastic on paper. Imagine a
food supplement that contains over 90% protein by weight with near
zero amounts of carbohydrates and fats. In addition, soy-protein
isolate could be manufactured for a fraction of the cost of other
protein sources. This is due to the U.S. producing more than $15
billion worth of soybeans each year for use as foodstuffs for animals
and humans. The biggest question however was how efficiently would
your body use this soy-isolate as a protein source?
In 1989, soy protein was put to the test to see how it stacked up
against other proteins on a scale of protein quality. The most
advanced protein-quality measurement scale is the Protein
Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS). The highest PDCAAS
score possible is 1.0. Any protein with a score of 1.0 is considered
complete for use by the human body. Soy was tested along with egg
white, casein (derivative of milk protein), beef, and a variety of
beans to determine their PDCAAS rating. Soy-protein isolate, along
with egg white, whey, and casein proteins, came back with a perfect
1.0 score. Interestingly enough, beef scored only a .92 while kidney
beans came in highest among the beans with a .68 rating.
But what about hydrolization (breaking the proteins into smaller fractions
like "di and tri peptides") couldn't this make whey into the superior
product that it is supposed to be? What we found was that the hydrolyzed
whey promotes less nitrogen retention than a similar non-hydrolyzed whey
(a bad thing for a bodybuilder because a positive nitrogen balance is a
must for anabolic muscle gain.) As a note: the hydrolyzed product that we
studied was the BEST in the industry with a 27% hydrolization, no bitter
taste, and at a cost from the manufacturer of greater than $8.00 per
pound! Rest assured, NO manufacturer is selling a whey product where the
raw materials for the protein cost anywhere close to $8 per pound.
Consider the above and you will quickly realize that supplement companies
(who don't actually manufacture the whey but buy the raw product from an
actual manufacturer) are telling "some fibs" about whey protein. BV of
168--ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS! Real whey manufacturers sometimes still use BV
to grade protein, and they always rate whey protein as a 94 BV! When you
see a 168 BV claim listed on the label of several manufacturers' whey
protein, just turn your head, know you're being scammed, and absolutely
don't buy!
Now let's consider the other claims and statements about the di-and tri-
peptides, about glutamine, and about the BCAAs (Branch Chain Amino Acids).
If hydrolization doesn't further increase nitrogen retention, then what is
the point of breaking protein into its smaller fractions like di- and tri-
peptides? There IS a good reason for hydrolyzing a protein and having
short peptides but it has nothing to do with BV/nitrogen retention.
Instead, it has everything to do with how FAST and EASY the product is
absorbed in the gut. Regular, undigested whey will be broken down into di-
and tri-peptides via enzymes in a person's gut and will be absorbed as
such. The caveat is that the whole process just takes a little longer.
Hydrolyzed products are basically only useful in baby food or hospital
situations where a person's digestive system is not functioning optimally
or when protein delivery is needed very quickly.
Is there any benefit of a hydrolyzed product for the bodybuilder? To tell
you the truth, I would have to say NO -- except possibly for the benefit
of having a quickly absorbed protein immediately after a workout to ensure
the muscle tissue is flooded with nutrients in a timely manner albeit with
a nitrogen penalty. Interestingly, this entire argument about hydrolized
protein is academic as it is not currently sold on the market. Here's
why. One, the cost of hydrolyzed whey is outrageous and two, its taste is
ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Trust me, if you're want to induce vomiting, just
take a little hydrolyzed whey protein!
4. Glutamine: Which protein has the most.
Isn't the claim true about whey having significantly higher amounts of
glutamine and BCAAs? Sorry, but NO! Whey does have the highest amounts of
BCAAs of any protein but NOT SIGNIFICANTLY higher amounts. When it comes
to the amounts of glutamine, soy beats whey hands down. For every 100
grams of protein, whey has 20.1 grams of BCAAs and 4.9 grams of glutamine.
Maybe to your surprise, soy has 18.1 grams of BCAAs and a whopping 10.5
grams of glutamine! Again, we have been lied to and deceived.
5. Protein Concentrate vs. Protein Isolate
Most companies are selling whey protein concentrate (WPC) and saying that
their product is whey protein isolate. Ion exchange protein really doesn't
mean anything in terms of the quality of the protein powder as a whole!
Any high quality, pure protein will be labeled an ISOLATE and this is what
you MUST look for. A true ion-exchange process CAN yield a good isolate
but it is not the only process available for getting a superior whey
protein. An isolate will have very little fat and lactose and will be
about 90% protein (the protein fractions are "isolated" from the rest of
the material).
On the other hand, a WPC made through protein filtration is vastly
inferior to an isolate with about 7% fat and lactose and only 75% protein
(The actual protein in WPC is usually pretty good, but who wants to deal
with all of the fat and lactose?) Interestingly, WPC costs less than half
of what an isolate costs. Unfortunately, both products look and taste
about the same so it becomes very hard to know what you have--you
basically have to trust the manufacturer (supplement company) of the
particular product.
Here's the picture--the industry through various articles in muscle
magazines touts the benefits and characteristics of a whey protein ISOLATE
and turns around and uses a CONCENTRATE. Tell me, who's the wiser? The
supplement companies, that's who, and they're a whole lot richer to boot!
Some manufacturers will put 98% WPC in their product and then put in 1% of
a hydrolyzed product (remember this tastes horrible!) and 1% of an
isolate. Then, they can legally claim all types of stuff on their label--
di and tri peptides, ion-exchange, blah, blah, blah!
What about the other available proteins--egg, casein, and soy? How do
these compare? First, let me state that all of the above proteins are
decent if processed correctly. Each will provide the body very efficiently
with the protein that it "needs". I would definitely stay away from casein
and egg white. Casein has been shown to have detrimental effects on a
person's cholesterol profile and egg white protein tastes poorly, is
expensive, and consists of about 10% carbohydrates.
Before you say it, I know your response--"That's all wonderful, but what
is the best protein for me, a bodybuilder/weightlifter?" If you were to
use any ONE protein source then I would have to say that it's a toss up
between a soy isolate and a whey ISOLATE (you know, the one that no one
can buy.) WPC provides a good protein; however the accompanying fat and
carbs is something you do not want. If I had a choice, I would pick a soy
isolate. A soy isolate is inexpensive, has the highest score on the
PCDAAS, is very soluble if instantized, is extremely bland (a good thing),
IMPROVES kidney function (unlike any other protein), is anticarcinogenic,
is anti-estrogenic, lowers LDL (bad) and raises HDL (good) cholesterol,
IMPROVES THYROID FUNCTION, etc, etc--the list goes on and on. But best of
all, unlike whey isolate, pure soy isolates exist. Mass Quantities Soy
Isolate Deluxe is a perfect example.
Some time ago, Mass Quantities set out to find the best overall protein
supplement on the market. MQ researched and experimented with every
protein source available. After intense trials, they came to the
conclusion that Soy Isolate protein displays more positive effects than
any other protein source on the planet. Mass Quantities Soy Isolate Deluxe
protein is the most beneficial protein available to bodybuilders. With 24
grams of protein, 0 carbs, and only 1 gram of fat, soy isolate is the
premier protein for lean muscle building in conjunction with fat loss.
Soy protein isolate displays more advantages to the bodybuilder than any
other protein source available, including the almighty whey. Soy Isolate
Deluxe does everything from increasing thyroid production to helping in
the prevention of cancer. Just take a look at all the benefits of Soy
Isolate Deluxe:
6. Soy Protein Isolate benefits for Bodybuilders
Animal research suggests some great advantages of using soy protein
isolate as a bodybuilding supplement. Research has shown that the
isoflavone daidzein found in soy-protein isolate might have a gender
specific normalizing effect on sex-hormone production. Lab animals
experienced testosterone and growth hormone excretion as well as muscle
growth in males, while the female animals experienced a decrease in these
hormones and fat loss.
Daidzein, which is concentrated in Mass Quantities Chrysin Deluxe, is also
found in Mass Quantities Soy Isolate Deluxe. Daidzein is a key isoflavone
found in soy that acts as a potent phyto-estrogen. It is structurally a
very weak "pseudo-estrogen" (about 1000 times weaker than the body's
primary estrogen estradiol). This is good news to the bodybuilder because
weak estrogens like daidzein will compete with stronger estrogens like
estradiol for available receptor sites to "bind" to. By binding to the
receptor sites daidzein then "blocks" the stronger estrogens from binding
to and activating receptor sites. With the daidzein isolflavone attached,
estrogen receptor sites remain inactive. This inactivity further minimizes
the negative effects of estrogen in the body. Many researchers believe
this effect is the reason soy protein is linked to a reduction in the risk
for many forms of breast, endometrial, and prostate cancer. This mechanism
works similarly to the prescription drug Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate)--an
anti-estrogen staple in the bodybuilding community.
This research also indicates that the soy-protein isolates may reduce
nitrogen loss and keep you in a positive nitrogen balance to better
facilitate muscle growth. The human body can only repair and build
muscles when it has a positive nitrogen balance.
Of particular interest to the bodybuilder is Soy Isolates high
concentration of the amino acids glutamine and arginine. These two aminos
are extremely important to a body builder for their ability to release
growth hormone, aid in immune system functions, and for their ability to
speed muscle cell recovery.
Table 1. Glutamine (per 100g)
Soy 10.5g
Milk Protein 8.8g
Whey 4.9g
Many bodybuilders understand the importance of the essential amino acid L-
glutamine to their muscle building supplementation. What many
bodybuilders don't know is that soy protein isolate has the highest
concentration of glutamine among protein sources-over twice that of whey
protein! (7) Glutamine has been used for years in hospitals to speed
muscle cell recovery and improve maintenance of muscle mass during periods
of starvation, infection, and exercise trauma. (8) Glutamine
supplementation has been shown to promote muscle glycogen accumulation,
which has been linked to an increase in muscle protein synthesis. (10)
Glutamine has also shown the ability to increase muscle cell volume
through the process of cellular hydration. (11) Glutamine supplementation
in as little as 2 grams per day has been shown to increase plasma growth
hormone levels. This increase in growth hormone has been shown to help
shift the fuel for muscle from glucose to fatty acids. (9) Research has
suggested that a bodybuilder should consume between 8 - 15 grams of
glutamine each day. Supplementing 3-5 grams of glutamine 3 times per day
has been shown to elicit a positive response without stimulating the
excretion of glutamine in the urine.
Table 2. Arginine (per 100g)
Soy 7.6g
Beef 6.3g
Egg 5.8g
Cassein 3.7g
Whey 2.9g
L-Arginine is another important amino acid with respects to body building.
Arginine plays several roles in the body such as fighting mental and
physical fatigue, but its main job is to assist with growth. This amino
acid promotes the release of two highly anabolic hormones, insulin and
growth hormone. Arginine promotes gains further by assisting in recovery
from post workout muscle trauma through its ability to speed tissue
healing. This amino acid aids in the detoxification of the liver by
removing ammonium from the body. Arginine has also shown the ability to
lower LDL cholesterol and triglyceride levels in the blood. Arginine is
used in the medical treatment of angina, congestive heart failure, male
infertility and wound healing. Soy isolate protein contains higher
amounts of this important amino acid than any other protein source.
As a hard training bodybuilder, your body needs protein every 2 -2 1/2
hours even if you may not think you need it. The human body does not
store protein long term as it does for fat and carbohydrates. Instead,
your body holds amino acids in three pools that provide the body's
necessary protein for fuel. These pools are constantly in a state of flux
and are replenished either from dietary protein or the breakdown of
muscle. It is extremely important to keep these amino acid pools topped
off through the feeding of protein every 2 - 2 1/2 hours. When feeding
stops, there is a fall in protein synthesis and a rise in protein
breakdown. This translates into a loss of lean body mass after extended
periods without protein.
7. Soy Protein Isolate for Dieters
For years, bodybuilding gurus have recommended the use of soy protein for
pre-contest bodybuilders who need to shed body fat while keeping as much
lean muscle as possible. Normally when the body is forced into a low
calorie diet program, it reacts by slowing down your metabolic rate. This
will make it increasingly more difficult to lose body fat. Soy-protein
isolate helps lessen this effect through several different pathways.
First, soy-protein isolate has been found to enhance endogenous production
of thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), thyroxin (T4), and triiodothyronine
(T3). Thyroxin is the main player in the regulation of your metabolic
rate. The more thyroxin you have the faster your metabolism will be.
A faster metabolism insures that more of the food you eat will be used as
fuel and less will be stored as fat, an important advantage to any dieter.
Another way soy accelerates fat loss is with its unique concentration of
amino acids. Soy-protein isolate has the highest concentration of amino
acids in what is called the "critical cluster". This cluster of amino
acids contains the three branch chain amino acids (BCAA's) and two
essential aminos - glutamine and arginine. These critical amino acids
help a bodybuilder spare muscle while losing body fat during a pre-contest
diet. Any time you diet, your body tries to break down muscle glycogen in
an effort to provide the body with more calories. In fact, your body will
often try to use broken down muscle for fuel before it uses stored body
fat. This is called muscle catabolism or muscle breakdown. These three
branch chain amino acids are the first amino acids that are used for fuel
when your body begins muscle catabolism. If you have a high amount of
these branch chain amino acids in your diet, your body will first use
these for fuel before it breaks down your stored muscle.
8. The Health Benefits of Soy Isolate
Now that we know that soy is a quality protein source, what health
benefits can soy protein bring to its consumer? The intake of soyfoods
has long been associated with a reduced risk for certain cancers.
Research has suggested that phytic acid and protease inhibitors, two of
the nonnutritive compounds in soybeans, contribute to the observed
anticarcinogenic effects of consuming soy. (1) Residents of the United
States and the United Kingdom, as a whole, consume the smallest amounts of
soyfoods but have the highest instances of breast and prostate cancer.
Japanese residents in comparison are the largest consumers of soyfoods and
have the lowest instances of these cancers. (3) Researchers point to the
isoflavones genistein and daidzein, which are found exclusively in soy and
soy protein isolate, as the major components behind soy's anti-
carcinogenic effects. (2)
Soy protein isolate has shown the ability to promote bone health, which in
turn aids in the prevention of Osteoporosis. Osteoporosis is a chronic
disease characterized by a decrease in bone density, which results in
abnormally porous and fragile bones. It has been suggested that a high
protein diet may increase the excretion of calcium in the urine, which can
lead to this health condition. Studies have shown that not all proteins
have the same effect on calcium excretion. Compared with animal protein,
soy does not result in an increased loss of calcium in the urine thus
promoting a more optimal calcium balance. (4) In addition, the
isoflavones in soy protein have been shown to increase both bone mineral
content and bone mineral density which will improve the health of
abnormally porous bones. (5)
Soy protein isolate has shown the ability to effectively lower LDL
cholesterol and triglyceride levels in the blood. Experts agree that
these cholesterol-lowering effects can be achieved through the consumption
of as little as 25 grams of soy isolate protein each day. The experts
point to the high levels of the amino acid arginine for this lipid
lowering effect. (6) LDL cholesterol is one of the primary factors behind
progressive atherosclerosis. This medical condition is caused by the
progressive build up of plaque that clogs blood flow in the arteries.
Soy protein has also shown the ability to improve kidney function. While
scientists agree that the high protein intake of bodybuilders is necessary
for proper muscle building and repair, they also agree that this diet will
place additional stress on the kidneys. Studies of both humans and
animals have shown that soy proteins filter more easily in the kidneys
thereby reducing their workload. In 1993, a study was performed on the
Romanian Olympic swimming and rowing teams. In this study, the athletes
were supplemented with 1.5 grams per kg of bodyweight of soy protein along
with their dietary protein (2 grams per kg of bodyweight) per day. This
additional protein showed no detrimental effects on kidney function and
actually showed from 5 to 46 percent improvement in kidney function.
Sorry, forgot the references:
References
(1)(2) Messina M, Messina V. Increasing use of soyfoods and their
potential role in cancer prevention. J Am Diet Assoc 1991;91:836-840
(3) American Cancer Society. Cancer Facts & Figures-1996.
(4)(5)(6)Ross PD. osteoporosis: Frequency, consequences and risk factors.
Archives of Internal Med 1996's 156.1399-1411.
(7)(8)(9) Bulus, N., Pysysiological Importance of Glutamine. Metabolism
Vol.38, No.8, August 1989.
(10)(11) Parry-Billings, M. Effects of changes in cell volume on the rates
of glutamine and alanine release from rat skeletal muscle in vitro.
Biomedical Journal, 276, 1991.
References
(1)(2) Messina M, Messina V. Increasing use of soyfoods and their
potential role in cancer prevention. J Am Diet Assoc 1991;91:836-840
(3) American Cancer Society. Cancer Facts & Figures-1996.
(4)(5)(6)Ross PD. osteoporosis: Frequency, consequences and risk factors.
Archives of Internal Med 1996's 156.1399-1411.
(7)(8)(9) Bulus, N., Pysysiological Importance of Glutamine. Metabolism
Vol.38, No.8, August 1989.
(10)(11) Parry-Billings, M. Effects of changes in cell volume on the rates
of glutamine and alanine release from rat skeletal muscle in vitro.
Biomedical Journal, 276, 1991.
M
Mike Tyson79
Guest
THA ONLY VEGETARIANS THAT CAN LIVE ARE THA VEGETARIANS THAT DO IT FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSES.
OTHER THAN THOSE INDIVIDUALS...ALL VEGETARIANS SHOULD DIE. I HATE VEGETARIANS A LOT. I WANT TO KILL ALL THE VEGETARIANS THAT WALK THA EARTH. FUCKERS. I CAN'T STAND VEGETARIANS. I EVEN HAVE BLACK T-SHIRT THAT SAYS ..
" Vegetarians Suck. "
I GOT IT MADE AT THE SWAP MEET. I WENT IN THERE WITH A SPECIFIC FONT AND COLOR. I HAD EVERYTHING PLANNED OUT TO MAKE MY T-SHIRT. I LOVE WEARING IT WHEN I GO TO TRADER JOE'S OR ANY OTHER HEALTH FOOD STORE. IT'S MY FAVORITE SHIRT. VEGETARIANS SUCK. AS SIMPLE AS THAT. IT GETS THA POINT ACCROSS CLEARLY AND IT'S EASILY READIBLE SO EVERYBODY SEE'S IT.
OK NOW BACK TO THA VEGATABLES. I HATE VEGETARIANS A LOT. I WISH THEY ALL WOULD DIE. THEY ARE BASTARDS, THEY ARE RUDE, THEY ARE MEAN, THEY ARE SNOBBY, THEY ARE BITCHY, THEY ARE UGLY, THEY ARE FAGGITY, THEY ARE WEAK, THEY ARE FOOLS.
MOTHERFUCKER! IF I GO FISHING AND WAIT CATCH A 5LB BASS AND YOU DON'T EAT THAT LIL FUCKER I SWEAR TO THA ALMIGHTY ILL SKULL CRUSH YOUR STUPID ASS. FUCKING RETARD. IDIOTIC UNCIVILIZED UNHEALTHY GRASS EATER. ONE MOTHERFUCKER BECOMES A VEGETARIAN THEN EVER OTHER FUCKING IDIOT FOLLOWS. LIKE FUCKING SHEEP,..CLONED SHEEP.
YOU FUCKING VEGETARIANS HAVE NO MORALS. YOU WILL LET AN ANIMAL THAT HAS DIED FOR YOU, JUST WASTE AWAY,,YOU WILL LET HIS CARCUSS ROT, INSTEAD OF HELPING MOTHER NATURE TAKE IT'S RIGHTFUL COURSE. YOU FUCKING IDIOTS. WAKE THA FUCK UP! YOU CORRODED PIECE OF HUMAN WRECKAGE.
SINCE THERE IS NO WAY TO CHANGE THA MINDS OF THESE STUBBORN FOOLS, THAT'S WHY I POST SHIT LIKE THIS ON THIS BOARD, AND WEAR SHIRTS.
MOTHERFUCKING CURROPT CREATURES.
YOU FUCKING SNAKES. FUCKING UGLY MUTANTS. YOU INSECURE FUCKING PSYCHOPATHS. YOU CASTRATED MOTHERFUCKERS I FEEL LIKE PUTTING YOUR GROTESQUE HEADS ON VENEMOUS SPIKES. FUCK ALL YOU VEGETARIANS.
P.S. FUCK SOY PROTEIN TOO.
Love Alwayz,
Mike Tyson79.
peace.
OTHER THAN THOSE INDIVIDUALS...ALL VEGETARIANS SHOULD DIE. I HATE VEGETARIANS A LOT. I WANT TO KILL ALL THE VEGETARIANS THAT WALK THA EARTH. FUCKERS. I CAN'T STAND VEGETARIANS. I EVEN HAVE BLACK T-SHIRT THAT SAYS ..
" Vegetarians Suck. "
I GOT IT MADE AT THE SWAP MEET. I WENT IN THERE WITH A SPECIFIC FONT AND COLOR. I HAD EVERYTHING PLANNED OUT TO MAKE MY T-SHIRT. I LOVE WEARING IT WHEN I GO TO TRADER JOE'S OR ANY OTHER HEALTH FOOD STORE. IT'S MY FAVORITE SHIRT. VEGETARIANS SUCK. AS SIMPLE AS THAT. IT GETS THA POINT ACCROSS CLEARLY AND IT'S EASILY READIBLE SO EVERYBODY SEE'S IT.
OK NOW BACK TO THA VEGATABLES. I HATE VEGETARIANS A LOT. I WISH THEY ALL WOULD DIE. THEY ARE BASTARDS, THEY ARE RUDE, THEY ARE MEAN, THEY ARE SNOBBY, THEY ARE BITCHY, THEY ARE UGLY, THEY ARE FAGGITY, THEY ARE WEAK, THEY ARE FOOLS.
MOTHERFUCKER! IF I GO FISHING AND WAIT CATCH A 5LB BASS AND YOU DON'T EAT THAT LIL FUCKER I SWEAR TO THA ALMIGHTY ILL SKULL CRUSH YOUR STUPID ASS. FUCKING RETARD. IDIOTIC UNCIVILIZED UNHEALTHY GRASS EATER. ONE MOTHERFUCKER BECOMES A VEGETARIAN THEN EVER OTHER FUCKING IDIOT FOLLOWS. LIKE FUCKING SHEEP,..CLONED SHEEP.
YOU FUCKING VEGETARIANS HAVE NO MORALS. YOU WILL LET AN ANIMAL THAT HAS DIED FOR YOU, JUST WASTE AWAY,,YOU WILL LET HIS CARCUSS ROT, INSTEAD OF HELPING MOTHER NATURE TAKE IT'S RIGHTFUL COURSE. YOU FUCKING IDIOTS. WAKE THA FUCK UP! YOU CORRODED PIECE OF HUMAN WRECKAGE.
SINCE THERE IS NO WAY TO CHANGE THA MINDS OF THESE STUBBORN FOOLS, THAT'S WHY I POST SHIT LIKE THIS ON THIS BOARD, AND WEAR SHIRTS.
MOTHERFUCKING CURROPT CREATURES.
YOU FUCKING SNAKES. FUCKING UGLY MUTANTS. YOU INSECURE FUCKING PSYCHOPATHS. YOU CASTRATED MOTHERFUCKERS I FEEL LIKE PUTTING YOUR GROTESQUE HEADS ON VENEMOUS SPIKES. FUCK ALL YOU VEGETARIANS.
P.S. FUCK SOY PROTEIN TOO.
Love Alwayz,
Mike Tyson79.
peace.
liftsiron
New member
George I disagree with you about soy, I can't stand it . I'm not real big on whey by it self either. But In all I think that you provide an outstanding supplement line with really good prices and specials that can't be beat. This board is second to none, it is by far the best of it's kind on the net. I'm now going to do five of my friends a favor and give them a free subscription.
Ok, mixed feelings on this post I see. Just to get this out in the open, I'm not a dumbass. I don't take AS and if I ever do, it will be after 25 just to make sure I have squeezed out all of my natural gains already. The reason I come here is for knowledge, not specific advice for myself, but just general knowledge to prepare me for when/if I do take AS. Better to know now than 3 weeks into a cycle sticking 3 syringes of AS I don't even know the name of in my ass since I didn't bother to find out ahead of time. Also, keep in mind that I'm not the one who started this post, don't blame me for putting this up on the AS board. I also come here because there are some non-AS related topics that are better (also some worse) that appear on here than the diet and training boards. Yet another reason I come here (before the forums were changed) were to see how guys taking AS turned out. Some(most) of you guys are pretty huge and that's cool, nothing is better than examining another person's personal experience. So to answer you Suprsaiyan2 for whatever reasons you asked me why I am in this forum or if I am on AS, that's it. Let's just make a truce dude, I hate arguments and I was pissed off last night.
Also to those questioning the topic of vegetarian bodybuilding, first off a VEGETARIAN is someone who eats no meat and a VEGAN is someone who eats nothing that came from a living animal. I am somewhere in the middle. I don't eat meat or fish but I eat eggs and drink a little milk (with shakes) I get my protein from a variety of sources. Obviously from eggs and milk, but also as George mentioned soy is a very good source of protein. I mix soy and whey isolate into my shakes. Also there are some soy products (kinda like imitation meat, if you will) that are really high in protein. They are usually located in the produce section, you could do a search "Yves" and "Smart Choice" are two of the well known brands. These are packs that contain 8 or so slices which if eaten combined would total something like 50 or 60 grams of protein and no carbs, ideal for cutting. (although high in sodium) I also take in a shitload of shakes (Optimum and maybe some EAS) which I put about 50 or 60 grams of protein in with soy, whey, milk, peanut butter/sugarfree icecream. I eat peanuts and peanut butter in addition. These are not all of my protein sources but as you can see there is more for a vegetarian bodybuilder to eat than just weeds.
P.S. Mike Tyson calm down dude. You like your meat, or need to cut down your test, and I don't have a problem with it. You are on AS, funny your physique doesn't show it.
Also to those questioning the topic of vegetarian bodybuilding, first off a VEGETARIAN is someone who eats no meat and a VEGAN is someone who eats nothing that came from a living animal. I am somewhere in the middle. I don't eat meat or fish but I eat eggs and drink a little milk (with shakes) I get my protein from a variety of sources. Obviously from eggs and milk, but also as George mentioned soy is a very good source of protein. I mix soy and whey isolate into my shakes. Also there are some soy products (kinda like imitation meat, if you will) that are really high in protein. They are usually located in the produce section, you could do a search "Yves" and "Smart Choice" are two of the well known brands. These are packs that contain 8 or so slices which if eaten combined would total something like 50 or 60 grams of protein and no carbs, ideal for cutting. (although high in sodium) I also take in a shitload of shakes (Optimum and maybe some EAS) which I put about 50 or 60 grams of protein in with soy, whey, milk, peanut butter/sugarfree icecream. I eat peanuts and peanut butter in addition. These are not all of my protein sources but as you can see there is more for a vegetarian bodybuilder to eat than just weeds.
P.S. Mike Tyson calm down dude. You like your meat, or need to cut down your test, and I don't have a problem with it. You are on AS, funny your physique doesn't show it.
M
Mike Tyson79
Guest
SHUT THA FUCK UP YOU KAK! LIKE I SAID FUCK ALL VEGETARIANS THEY ARE IDIOTIC.
I AM NOT ON ANABOLIC STEROIDS YOU FUCKING IDIOT!
I SAID THAT SHIT 390423 TIMES ALREADY, YOU GOD DAMN FOOL. EAT SOME MEAT AND GROW UP YOU FUCKING CLOWN. "I DON'T EAT MEAT OR FISH"...SHUT THA FUCK UP!!!! QUEER.
YOUR AN UGLY BASTARD.
BITCH , I EAT PUSSY WITH CHIPS, SO FUCK YOUR UGLY ASS.
OH SHIT...DO VEGETARIANS EAT PUSSY?? LOL
Love Alwayz,
Mike Tyson79
peace
I AM NOT ON ANABOLIC STEROIDS YOU FUCKING IDIOT!
I SAID THAT SHIT 390423 TIMES ALREADY, YOU GOD DAMN FOOL. EAT SOME MEAT AND GROW UP YOU FUCKING CLOWN. "I DON'T EAT MEAT OR FISH"...SHUT THA FUCK UP!!!! QUEER.
YOUR AN UGLY BASTARD.
BITCH , I EAT PUSSY WITH CHIPS, SO FUCK YOUR UGLY ASS.
OH SHIT...DO VEGETARIANS EAT PUSSY?? LOL
Love Alwayz,
Mike Tyson79
peace
Pussy with chips? Just plain pussy is fine for me. Dude you need to calm down. I mean, I saw your pic and you actually do look like an unshaven pussy. You got the whole shape and everything. It's just so funny. Some of that toilet paper could be used to wipe your pussy to get all those chips out of it. But seriously I got nothing against you, the way you hate vegetarians is kinda like racism. I mean do you hate a race based on their color? Or a religion based on their beliefs? Geez dude.
M
Mike Tyson79
Guest
shut ur ugly ass up!
I ONLY HATE VEGETARIANS.
I DON'T DISCRIMINATE OVER COLOR OR CREED.
I JUST HATE VEGETARIANS.
p.s. and i do have something against you.
Love Alwayz,
Mike Tyson 79
peace
I ONLY HATE VEGETARIANS.
I DON'T DISCRIMINATE OVER COLOR OR CREED.
I JUST HATE VEGETARIANS.
p.s. and i do have something against you.
Love Alwayz,
Mike Tyson 79
peace
