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USE YOUR STRAPS and WORK FOREARMS. END of STORY!

P

punch

New member
I laugh every time I hear people say not to use straps. WHY? If your doing forearms as you should be you are getting plenty of grip and forearm work.

My workout partner and I had this argument last year. He never used straps and did little forearm work, so I challenged him. We did bent over barbell rows. Me w/straps and him w/ out at 225 he only got 6 reps, I got 15, His back did not give out, his grip did.

Also my forearms are twice as big as his. The moral of the story is: Use your straps and concentrate on the movement at hand, not your grip. Do your forearms twice to three times a week( it should only take 15 min). Keep it real boys!!
 
this is a debate that could get ugly fast on this board, so let me try to mediate.

you have a good point i agree. from your statement i take it that your a bodybuilder, or at least not a powerlifter.

but a lot of the people on this board are into powerlifting, which means you cant use straps in contest, so there is no advantage to training with a heavier weight that they cant do in competition.

me, im a bodybuilder....... so i use straps. but, i train WSB club style in the offseason, then i dont use straps. i just like knowing when i can get a weight, completely unassisted. but for me during bodybuilding season...... oh yeah i strap it up.

so whats the moral??????..........to each their own:D

X
 
good..........

ok then, if your not a powerlifter and you dont use straps when your targeted bodypart would benefit from it....... well that just crazy.

now even if you do use straps, doesnt mean you shouldnt train forearms and grip work. just a word of advice. im not saying be lazy use straps. train the problem, just dont let the problem become a problem for your other bodyparts as well.

X
 
I completely disagree. If you never use straps, you should never need them. I've never used them, and my grip is phenominal. I easily deadlift arounf 550lbs for sets of 5, and have pulled over 600 for a single, all with absolutely no signs of grip failure. I even lock out with the weight for 20-30 seconds at the end of the set, and still have no problem with grip.
The best part is that I NEVER train forearms outside of the work they get from heavy deads, and they are probably my strongest bodypart.
Straps are a crutch, same as belts, wraps etc, and personally I dont see the point of relying on a crutch that will cause a weakness to get worse
 
needsize said:

The best part is that I NEVER train forearms outside of the work they get from heavy deads, and they are probably my strongest bodypart.
Straps are a crutch, same as belts, wraps etc, and personally I dont see the point of relying on a crutch that will cause a weakness to get worse
Click to expand...

needsize...... good to talk to you, i havent heard from you in a while.

ok........i agree with everything you said. i dont use knee wraps or a belt.......... but........ i have a lagging back and traps and erectors........ i can handle good weight with these bodyparts, i just have a bad grip. i do a ton of grip work too, but i have really short fingers compared to my palms, plus on top of that im still recovering from 2 broken bones on my left hand ring finger. i dont agree with relying on a crutch to make the weakness worse. thats why i dont wear a belt, i train my core...... but i just cant not give a workout my all, in terms of the targeted muscle to be worked...... so i cant afford to half heartedly go through a workout, just because i cant hold on to the weight..... i know that wont make too much sense to you, ( i have seen your forarms and i have seen you dead 600 strapless) you have no problem with forearm size or grip....... im just saying think about it from my point of view. my situation, not just a maxim of, if you have a weak grip wear straps, but my want to not wear them, but just wear them untill i dont have too?

seriously, what do you think.

X
 
I use straps frequently and my forearm developement is phenomenal. From a psychological point of view when I do shrugs w/ 450lb I want to think of that movement ONLY, no distractions. Forearms are a bodypart just as shoulders, Bis and back and should be trained as such!!
 
exodus, I hear what you're saying, and I agree to a point. I would never let another muscle suffer because my grip kept failing first, I would use straps if I needed to. But I would think the goal would be to eventually not need them anymore, but it sounds like thats kinda the track that you are on anyway. This was targetted more to the original post, that just blanket stated that you should use them all the time, and count on direct forearm work for growth. That I disagree with, as I would love to see what type of wrist curls that could equal the growth I get from the heavy deads.
 
ok then we agree.

yeah i see your point about the original post. yes i want to not use them, i have gotten away from the knee wraps and the belt and the straps are next. your right about my point, straps are bad in this senario:

"dude, my grip sucks what kinda exerices do i need to do?"
"Dude, dont train grip when you can just use straps."

thats baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

using them is fine if you have to, but train hard in the mean time so you will not have to use them long.

and that goes for everyone too!!!!!:D

X
 
I think this comes down to a matter of styles, which are often dictated by goals. A powerlifters results come primarily from the plates, whereas a bodybuilders results come primarily from the mirror. And basically, as a bodybuilder, I can't see my grip in the mirror. As stupid and narcissistic as that sounds, the fact remains.

I do the best I can to avoid the straps as much as possible. However, a strong grip is simply not a priority for me in the gym. The second I feel that the grip is hindering a deadlift or shrug, on go the straps.
 
Personally i think this debate can go back and forth forever...You both make sense in what you say, and i personally couldn't argue with either one of you on this subject because i think it all comes down to styles and what works for you....

As for me, i use straps when i need them...But if i don't have to use them i wont...One exercise i refuse to use them on is DEADLIFTS!
 
I thought we had a powerlifting section of this website. Or am I wrong. My heart and soul are in BB. That is why I post 99% of my ideas and experience HERE. Ideas are often very opinionated as mine often are. I speak from a pure BB stand point and the last few posts are brilliant.

Having a grip where you could crush concrete is MEANINGLESS in BB, having fully developed, vascular, proportionate forearms are.
 
punch said:
I thought we had a powerlifting section of this website. Or am I wrong. My heart and soul are in BB. That is why I post 99% of my ideas and experience HERE. Ideas are often very opinionated as mine often are. I speak from a pure BB stand point and the last few posts are brilliant.

Having a grip where you could crush concrete is MEANINGLESS in BB, having fully developed, vascular, proportionate forearms are.
Click to expand...

Agreed. However, If I could presume to take the role of a PL here, I might tell you that allowing your grip to develop by becoming less dependent on straps is a better, faster road to developing your forearms. As a bb, I think there's probably some merit to that. But for me, strapping up on shrugs and doing forearm work separately is preferrable.
 
If straps help build strength and size in a physique. . . .then I feel it is OK to use them. I would rather have my back fatigue before my grip. I am able to use 600lbs for reps on rack deads using an overhand grip using straps. I still train my forearms.
 
one thing i'll say...... having a strong grip has never really done anything for my forearm size....... to get size and vascularity i do wrist curls and such....... the straps are all about function. they dont inhibit my forearm growth.

X
 
I personally found that my grip strength did not progress as fast as my dead/back and hence would have held me back did I not start using straps. For those ** cough needsize ** that have been blessed with forarms that gre at the same rate, im envious :)
 
This is your opinion bro, not the "END of STORY!!!"

When I pulled 600, I did it without straps. Same thing with all my shrugs, and my grip never failed before my target muscles.

Ditch the straps and try chalk. Seriously
 
Originally posted by Thaibox
This is your opinion bro, not the "END of STORY!!!"

When I pulled 600, I did it without straps. Same thing with all my shrugs, and my grip never failed before my target muscles.

Ditch the straps and try chalk. Seriously


Im with you all the way man, I never seem to run into grip issues with any of my back workouts whether it be chins, deads, or rows. I also just get a certain satisfaction out of not using straps, and although I consider myself more of a bodybuilder, having a strong grip is something that is still important to me. Oh yeah and chalk is a godsend!!!!! I dont think there is anything "wrong" with using straps, but as Thai said it really isnt the end of story but merely an opinion. (I also do train forearms directly)
 
well the chalk would work....... for me ive used it twice, and grip was no problem........ however....... at the threat of being kicked out of my gym........ i dont use the chalk....... and since im in the middle of birmingham....... where all the gyms have a no chalk rule.... there is no point in fighting.

X
 
I ditched the straps not to long ago, maybe, 6 months ago. I really didn't notice a big difference. I thinks its a confidence thing for me, I know I can hit the weight with out them. I am a big chalk user now.
 
punch said:
I laugh every time I hear people say not to use straps. WHY? If your doing forearms as you should be you are getting plenty of grip and forearm work.

My workout partner and I had this argument last year. He never used straps and did little forearm work, so I challenged him. We did bent over barbell rows. Me w/straps and him w/ out at 225 he only got 6 reps, I got 15, His back did not give out, his grip did.

Also my forearms are twice as big as his. The moral of the story is: Use your straps and concentrate on the movement at hand, not your grip. Do your forearms twice to three times a week( it should only take 15 min). Keep it real boys!!
Click to expand...

Here are my thoughts. You wouldn't need straps if you were working your forearms properly. Whats more impressive being able to one arm wrist curl 70 lbs or be able to hold a 4, 5, 6 hundred pound deadlift with brute strenght and not a piece of fabric?
 
Re: Re: USE YOUR STRAPS and WORK FOREARMS. END of STORY!

crew9 said:


Here are my thoughts. You wouldn't need straps if you were working your forearms properly. Whats more impressive being able to one arm wrist curl 70 lbs or be able to hold a 4, 5, 6 hundred pound deadlift with brute strenght and not a piece of fabric?
Click to expand...

I say the 400, 500, or 600lb deadlift is much more impressive for someone who is using straps rather than someone gripping a wimpy 70lb dumbbell.
 
Re: Re: Re: USE YOUR STRAPS and WORK FOREARMS. END of STORY!

louden_swain said:


I say the 400, 500, or 600lb deadlift is much more impressive for someone who is using straps rather than someone gripping a wimpy 70lb dumbbell.
Click to expand...

Doing wrist curls with a 70lb db is wimpy? I can get a decent set with a 60 tops. What does that make me?

:baby2:
 
straps or no....its all about YOUR goal.

i dont want functional strength disparities so im "au naturale" in the equipment dept.

i took an ego blow once when i forgot my straps on back day and couldnt hang on to mediocre shrug and rowing weight. never again i swore, took a couple steps backwards to build up my grip (working with the weights i could hold on to) and now i dont have issues with my grip.

only occasionally on deads, but nothing else.

:)
 
It's obvious that there are people here with different goals in mind. Those who feel working the muscle is more important than being able to hold on to it and visa-versa. Different stroke for different folks - everyone is gonna think their way is the best when all that's really important is doing what works best for you.
 
Exodus said:
one thing i'll say...... having a strong grip has never really done anything for my forearm size....... to get size and vascularity i do wrist curls and such....... the straps are all about function. they dont inhibit my forearm growth.

X
Click to expand...

That was exactly the post I was going to put up until I saw yours.

I have been cursed with small hands and correspondingly small forearms. I have never used strapes for deadlifting, and pulled 505lbs from knee height this week for 4 singles. My back failed long before my grip. Yet, my foreamrs are pretty much the same size as they always have been. :mad: Then of course, I do nothing for forearm size or development either.

But I do agree with Gymtime. You do whatever you have to do to meet your goals.
BBing and PLing both have different goals, therfore, they train differently. (Generally speaking.)


.02,
Joker
 
bignate got it right with " it depends on your goal."

by the end of a back workout, my grip is far weaker than it was at the beginning, but why should the exercises at the end not get get the same treatment as the ones in the beginning ?

if using straps is gonna let me shrug or dead more weight and therefor put more stress on my back and allow for more growth potential, then im gonna use them.
 
Interesting thread. Some good points, and some bad points :)

Don't think I'll ever be a PL, but also don't think I'll ever use straps.

My opinion is that one's growth should be symmetrical (for a BB at least), someone properly proportioned always looks better than someone roughly the same size but with chicken legs, or whatever is lacking. If your grip/forearm can't keep up with the deads, well, then you need to work those parts more to catch up.

The only times I would probably use straps is if I had an injury that the straps would let me work around, or if I was on a cycle and my grip couldn't keep up, I'd strap myself silly, then catch up with the grip later.
 
I completely understand that size does not always equate to strength. I also understand when people say well I use straps because my forearms get tired so I can't work my other muscles as hard. I look at it like this. I can rack deadlift a 405-425. This is not a lot of weight by many peoples standards here but it's a lot of weight for me. At this point the weight all but falls out of my hand near the end of the rep. Putting more weight on there is not a possibility because I couldn't possibly hold it. Sure I could probably throw on some extra weight if I added straps. I don't consider myself to be able to lift a said weight if I needed the assistance of something to help me accomplish it. If someone calls me on a lift what am I going to say, "Oh I'm sorry I don't have my straps I can't do it now." If you can't lift the weight at any time without the aid of something then you cannot do the lift. Simple as that....well at least for me it is. Oh well to each their own. So my thoughts are why not put down the straps and pick up the weight. Sure your ego might be hurting when you have to lower some weights but you'll get back there. Add in a forearm day if want to focus on hypertrophy.
 
crew9 said:
I don't consider myself to be able to lift a said weight if I needed the assistance of something to help me accomplish it. If someone calls me on a lift what am I going to say, "Oh I'm sorry I don't have my straps I can't do it now." If you can't lift the weight at any time without the aid of something then you cannot do the lift
Click to expand...

Thats pretty much where i stand in the debate.

However...if you dont quote or brag numbers, then go for it......use straps.

I know this will spark another debate.....whats the difference between using straps, and powerlifters using, bench shirts, power briefs and squat suits?

I like the idea of being able to walk up to a weight on the floor or in the racks and being able to lift it without concern of if you forgot your straps, or if your bench shirt is tight enough.


For all the body builders, i understand that your end goal is looking good...but you are doing "resistance training" why not reap all the benifits? You are working with weights....why not let them make you stronger?

Also there is a difference between having big forearms.....and strong forearms. doing wrist curls, wont build a really strong supporting grip
 
Re: Re: Re: USE YOUR STRAPS and WORK FOREARMS. END of STORY!

louden_swain said:


I say the 400, 500, or 600lb deadlift is much more impressive for someone who is using straps rather than someone gripping a wimpy 70lb dumbbell.
Click to expand...

i can deadlift 405 with out straps, thats not a whole lot, but...

so its not impressive to see me do that??
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: USE YOUR STRAPS and WORK FOREARMS. END of STORY!

TheOak84 said:


i can deadlift 405 with out straps, thats not a whole lot, but...

so its not impressive to see me do that??
Click to expand...

Thats great!!! That is impressive.
 
I have never, ever used straps, but I can understand why one would use them for deadlifting, for the following reasons:

1. Using a mixed grip really doesn't help develop grip strength that much, even if you are using a lot of weight.

2. Using a mixed grip can cause postural problems, imbalanced developement of leg and back muscles.

3. Doing clean grip deadlifts "feels" better to me than doing mixed grip ones - it feels like I'm really hitting both sides of my body evenly, whereas every time I do mixed grip deadlifts, I feel like my dominant side takes over, no matter which hand is supinated or pronated.

Now, chalk is GREAT for this reason. If you use chalk when you deadlift, and use a clean grip, you are getting the best of both worlds: gnarly forearm development and deadlifts without the weirdness. However, even with chalk, there is only so much weight you can hold onto with a clean grip, especially throughout the entire deadlift ROM.

One thing that really helps me out, that you folks might want to try, is this:

Get in the rack, and do a 20 second hold with 120% of your deadlift 1RM. Two or three wouldn't hurt, either. Now, go to your exercise that requires grip strength - barbell rows and deadlifts are my two major ones. The weight will feel SO LIGHT it's incredible, and you will most likely have little problem holding onto it, even with a clean grip (provided you are using chalk).

Give it a try.

Also, for you Body Building types, I think that one of the best forearm workouts you can do is high rep stuff with the Captains of Crush. Those things pump my forearms up so gnarly its incredible, and if you use a slow tempo, do static holds, etc. with them, your forearm developement will shoot through the roof.
 
I agree that the exercises that enable you to lift the most weight, like deads, will train the grip better than isolations. if you have a weak grip then your other lifts will suffer as well.
 
I work my forarms every other day. I do use straps.

Now tell me why I should not use straps when I increased my DL 50% but putting them on? Same for Shrugs and (hehe) sidebends.

I do DL, Shrugs, and Sidebends for muscles other than forarms. I do forarm exercises for forarms.

so HOW AM I BETTER OFF not using straps?
 
Wow, I cant believe this thread was resurrected!!! Synpax, I agree w/ you 100%. There is NOTHING that builds bigger more muscular forearms than direct work on forearms. I've said it once and I will say it one more time. I can shrug 405 for 10 reps holding each rep at peak contraction for 2-3 seconds....WITH STRAPS. I will go out on a limb and say that very few here could do that w/ out them. TRAIN YOUR FOREARMS LIKE ANY OTHER BODYPART. Peace.
 
I find it funny how many people play the macho man and say they never ever use straps. . . .good for you.

I am still deadlifting and pulling more than the majority of these people with or without straps.

Use them if your grip is the weak link. . I am not going to make my lats suffer because of a weak grip.

Its amazing how these macho SOBs. . . brag about not using straps. . . . but their back development blows more than the victim in the Kobe Bryant case.
 
punch said:
I laugh every time I hear people say not to use straps. WHY? If your doing forearms as you should be you are getting plenty of grip and forearm work.

My workout partner and I had this argument last year. He never used straps and did little forearm work, so I challenged him. We did bent over barbell rows. Me w/straps and him w/ out at 225 he only got 6 reps, I got 15, His back did not give out, his grip did.

Also my forearms are twice as big as his. The moral of the story is: Use your straps and concentrate on the movement at hand, not your grip. Do your forearms twice to three times a week( it should only take 15 min). Keep it real boys!!
Click to expand...

1. Training forearms does not necessarily mean you are training your grip. Wrist curls, hammer curls etc do little for grip strength.

2. If you're friend's grip gave out, obviously his grip was weak. 225 lbs is NOT a lot of weight to have to be able to hold onto. He should not have been arguing with you if he didn't have a strong grip to back up his wager.

3. Forearm size is a very hard thing to compare to someone elses. Many factors such as arm length, wrist size, as well as height and weight go into this before training even enters the picture. I know guys with enormous forearms that have never even touched a weight. If you two are the same height and weight (are you?) than if your forearms are bigger to THAT degree (twice as big, whatever you mean by that) it's probably not merely a result of how you trained them.

4. I train for bodybuilding as well as strength. I believe that straps are a crutch. This may be somewhat hypocritical as I still use them sometimes, but that's only until my grip catches up with me (which I am assuredly training) because I have ignored it often in the past. To me part of the mystique of bodybuilding and strength training is almost pure machismo. I want to grip cold hard iron and lift it with my bare hands, wrather than wrapping some grip aid around it and having it assist me.
 
i love the phrase..."i dont want this to suffer because this is weak..."

1st....whats the rush?

2nd....isnt that why its called training?

3rd....dont powerlifters train weaknesses to improve the overall movement? they seem to be pretty thick to me.....call me crazy but maybe they are on to something.

4th....if you arent focusing on the movement your form will suck anyways. there is no "really concentrating on my back" either you are using your back or you arent. if you are using your arms more for the movement, the path of the bar/ROM will be different.

5th....as debaser said, grip strenght and doing some wrist curls are a different thing.

6th....compound movements like rows and pulldowns are bound to get strong quickly due to the numerous muscles involved, but by adding the crutch, you further the gap.

next we are going to see people doing exclusively heavy pec deck flyes because their triceps are too weak for a bench press.

maybe im a little too simple in my thinking. its just my opinion and the value i place on well rounded training. that is all.
 
Everyone has a valid point. We have to differntiate however, those of us training as a PL and those as a BB. Grip strength for me, is a very nominal benefit I associate w/ lifting. You dont see grip strength, you see forearm developement. I wrist curl a LOT of wieght both reverse for uppers and on a bench rolling bar down to fingertips for the belly. I dont want to think about the ancillary benefits of a movement, I want to concentrate on the target muscle and thats it. Its all individual.
 
IMO, it depends on your goals. Personally, I have never used them and don't think I ever will.

-sk
 
I use them when I have to... if I don't need them, I don't wear them.

I've been using them on my heavier lifts for a while now... I have a nagging right wrist injury in the lateral ligaments of my wrist... it really hurts my grip on many exercises... my left is fine, but that doesn't do much if my right is dropping shit.

Basically, I worry about my own workouts and what I need to do to make them better... I don't compete in competitions, so I can use just about any instrument I want to without worrying if it is going to hinder my lifts later on. If more people worried more about thier OWN workouts rather than everyone elses... well, I guess nothing would change for me, because I'd still only care what was going on with MY workouts, and not others (My clients aside... of course).

C-ditty
 
PolishHammer1977 said:
I would like to shake a lot of hands here to find out what the grip is like.

Strap wearers that is.

Carry on......................
Click to expand...

You would be suprised. . this is coming from a former wrestler.
 
PolishHammer1977 said:
I would like to shake a lot of hands here to find out what the grip is like.

Strap wearers that is.

Carry on......................
Click to expand...

I must break you.

;)

C-ditty
 
louden_swain said:
I find it funny how many people play the macho man and say they never ever use straps. . . .good for you.

I am still deadlifting and pulling more than the majority of these people with or without straps.

Use them if your grip is the weak link. . I am not going to make my lats suffer because of a weak grip.

Its amazing how these macho SOBs. . . brag about not using straps. . . . but their back development blows more than the victim in the Kobe Bryant case.
Click to expand...


:rolleyes:
 
louden_swain said:


Based on your response. . you easily met my criteria.

I rest my case.
Click to expand...


Actually I don't, that's why I rolled the eyes. I've pulled 735 without straps, and I also have a very massive and well developed back. Your post was funny to me.

:)
 
I never understood the difference... so you don't use straps.. or you do? Now, if the lift is one that requires you to stand holding the weight in your hands for an hour... I could see.

But your BACK is still moving the weight, no matter what it is. (if we are talking about rows).

Touchy subject... use em if you want to, don't if you don't. But don't come down on others for using them or thing you are something special if you don't... because you're not. ;)

C-ditty
 
Citruscide said:


Touchy subject... use em if you want to, don't if you don't. But don't come down on others for using them or thing you are something special if you don't... because you're not. ;)
Click to expand...


I agree. Do your workout, and refrain from comments like "macho SOBs."
 
If strength is so "unimportant" to bodybuilders, why do they bother posting PR's that are weight related?

Strength atheletes don't post up their BF%, or the fact they've gained an extra 1/2" on the arms, they post up weight PR's.

However, so do BB's. Yet, when confronted with strength questions like straps, they suddenly don't care about strength, just overall development.

Each person's goals are each person's goals. But don't expect the same reaction from strength atheletes as you do from BB's when posting up your PR accomplishments.
Post PR's that are relavent to your sport.

.02,
Joker
 
JOKER47 said:
If strength is so "unimportant" to bodybuilders, why do they bother posting PR's that are weight related?

Strength atheletes don't post up their BF%, or the fact they've gained an extra 1/2" on the arms, they post up weight PR's.

However, so do BB's. Yet, when confronted with strength questions like straps, they suddenly don't care about strength, just overall development.

Each person's goals are each person's goals. But don't expect the same reaction from strength atheletes as you do from BB's when posting up your PR accomplishments.
Post PR's that are relavent to your sport.

.02,
Joker
Click to expand...

I don't think that strength is unimportant to bodybuilders at all. But I think a bodybuilder's idea of strength and YOUR idea of strength are more than slightly different.

Strength to me is a weight I can do 3-5 reps to maximize my FTF growth... and it's my understanding that strength for a PL is... umm.. moving ungodly amounts of weight for 1 rep (or at least it boils down to that in a competition).

You can (or any PL) feel free to correct me if you see my observations in error. I don't feel that doing 10-12 reps per set is really going to get me the growth I desire ... 3-5 (when it is WHAT I can do) most of the time, will. (there are exceptions to this -- 20 rep squat, speed routines, plyo, sprints, etc).

Just a little view from Citruscide's Corner. ;)

C-ditty
 
bignate73 said:


is that the pink one that you hold the record for throwing?

:p
Click to expand...

Yes, why bignate it is. Sadly, that throw broke th ebike into two pieces. We layed it to rest and I am currently looking for a new garbage picked bike so we can throw it around next weekend.

Always good to have a fun event after the death medley.
 
myself, when I started lifting, I never even thought of straps, in fact, hadnt heard of them. So when I started deadlifting, it was always raw, no belt either. So now I'm at the point where I can rip up crazy poundages, and even when I do 30 second static holds at the end of a set of 500x10 reps, my grip doesnt fail, its my back that does. I dont know if that would work out the same for everyone though. The best thing as far as I'm concerned though, is that my forarm development is crazy, almost outclassing my upper arms
 
PolishHammer1977 said:
I don't have half the forearms you have but my grip is stronger than my body can handle.

I understand.
Click to expand...

funny thing is I never thought anything about it for the longest time. Then one day I was working out with my training partner (dissto whose been a member of elite since 1999) and he couldnt believe how much I was pulling with no grip problems. He deadlifts pretty much the same as me, but cant get that much off the ground without straps
 
punch said:
There is NOTHING that builds bigger more muscular forearms than direct work on forearms.
Click to expand...

It is interesting, then, to see that a great many of the world's bigger forearms were built without wrist curls and such minutia.

I agree with Crew9, Endpoint, and Bignate73.
 
Evidence that a powerlifting background (which Franco had) is beneficial.
 
I read that Whit Baskin (the guy with crazy grip who competes in pro-strongman) says that people should use straps on heavy exercises, and have a separate grip training
 
needsize said:
I completely disagree. If you never use straps, you should never need them. I've never used them, and my grip is phenominal. I easily deadlift arounf 550lbs for sets of 5, and have pulled over 600 for a single, all with absolutely no signs of grip failure. I even lock out with the weight for 20-30 seconds at the end of the set, and still have no problem with grip.
The best part is that I NEVER train forearms outside of the work they get from heavy deads, and they are probably my strongest bodypart.
Straps are a crutch, same as belts, wraps etc, and personally I dont see the point of relying on a crutch that will cause a weakness to get worse
Click to expand...

I've seen this exact post about a zillion times so I have to comment on it.

NS - it is easy to say this when you have an exceptionally strong grip. Whenever this argument pops up, you're one of the first people to get on here and give us a rundown of your lifting capablities. What you need to understand is that you have a genetic gift in this department. The overwhelming majority of people on this board will never have a grip strong enough to hold 550lbs after a set of 5 for 20-30 seconds regardless of whether or not they ditch straps for the rest of their lives. Your advice is not objective but rather based on the fact that since you are able to do this, everyone should be able to. If you were born with genetically weak forearms/grip, you'd be telling a different story. Most people on this board are on the opposite side of the spectrum as you. Their grip will never match what their back can handle.

That said, my stance is "use em if you need em," but if you're getting to the point where you feel you need them during pullups and rows, you might want to take a closer look at your grip training. Deadlifts and heavy shrugs are understandable.
 
I didnt always have a strong grip though, its not like it came easy. I remember back in the day having it fail on chinups, with no weight added other than bodyweight. Over time, being forced to do it raw as I hadnt even heard of straps, my grip just went up, along with the weights of my working sets. I know it is a lot tougher if you have used straps, to then drop them as your grip strength wont match the rest of you. My training partner is in this boat, he can deadlift the same weight as me, but couldnt get over 4 plates without straps. He has come a long way though and although he cant quite match me, hes getting close, which is good for someone who used straps for years
 
supersizeme said:


I've seen this exact post about a zillion times so I have to comment on it.

NS - it is easy to say this when you have an exceptionally strong grip. Whenever this argument pops up, you're one of the first people to get on here and give us a rundown of your lifting capablities. What you need to understand is that you have a genetic gift in this department. The overwhelming majority of people on this board will never have a grip strong enough to hold 550lbs after a set of 5 for 20-30 seconds regardless of whether or not they ditch straps for the rest of their lives. Your advice is not objective but rather based on the fact that since you are able to do this, everyone should be able to. If you were born with genetically weak forearms/grip, you'd be telling a different story. Most people on this board are on the opposite side of the spectrum as you. Their grip will never match what their back can handle.

That said, my stance is "use em if you need em," but if you're getting to the point where you feel you need them during pullups and rows, you might want to take a closer look at your grip training. Deadlifts and heavy shrugs are understandable.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you here. I have small weak hands and forearms. I forced myself to NOT use straps and work my grip. Not just with deadlifts, but with all lifts where grip was a concern. I also added in DB holds until failure each week at the end of my "Back" day.

It took some time, yes. Several months in fact, before my grip caught up to the rest of my body. Now, my grip is the last thing to fail for most everything. Farmers walks included.

Having a weak grip doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to have a weak grip. It just means that you will have to work very hard to increase your grip strength.

However, if your goals in the gym do not require that you have a strong grip, then by allmeans, use straps to to get to your goals.


Joker
 
louden_swain said:
I find it funny how many people play the macho man and say they never ever use straps. . . .good for you.

I am still deadlifting and pulling more than the majority of these people with or without straps.

Use them if your grip is the weak link. . I am not going to make my lats suffer because of a weak grip.

Its amazing how these macho SOBs. . . brag about not using straps. . . . but their back development blows more than the victim in the Kobe Bryant case.
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Man...I'm just dying to jump all over this one.

I don't use straps.

You don't deadlift or pull more than I do.

My lats don't suffer IMO.

I wouldn't consider my self macho or an SOB. I think that it would be safe to say that my back development doesn't BLOW either.

B True
 
revexrevex said:
I read that Whit Baskin (the guy with crazy grip who competes in pro-strongman) says that people should use straps on heavy exercises, and have a separate grip training
Click to expand...

Whit has a good grip?

:confused:

B True
 
supersizeme said:


The overwhelming majority of people on this board will never have a grip strong enough to hold 550lbs after a set of 5 for 20-30 seconds regardless of whether or not they ditch straps for the rest of their lives.
Click to expand...

That's because many people don't seem to realize that simply "ditching straps" isn't enough training for their grip. You talk about all these bodybuilders being unable to accomplish such a grip feat--yet how many bodybuilders do you know that train their grip? There is a definate correlation.
 
supersizeme said:
The overwhelming majority of people on this board will never have a grip strong enough to hold 550lbs after a set of 5 for 20-30 seconds regardless of whether or not they ditch straps for the rest of their lives. Your advice is not objective but rather based on the fact that since you are able to do this, everyone should be able to. If you were born with genetically weak forearms/grip, you'd be telling a different story. Most people on this board are on the opposite side of the spectrum as you. Their grip will never match what their back can handle.
Click to expand...


My grip is A LOT stronger than my body can handle.

My last farmers walk with 275 in each hands was tough for me to stand with but I could have held it as long as I wanted.

;)

Fist in the air for years of manual labor my man. I am the silent majority.
 
6 months ago I could hardly close the COC #1 or hang onto a 405 deadlift, now I can rep with the #2 and hold 700lbs for timed holds. The only change I made was dropping straps and using chalk.

Genetics really don't limit you in building a reasonably strong grip, I don't even think I'm from the same species as needsize so even us 'regular guys' can build up enough of a grip to hold anything they can pull IMO.

Now, if you're talking thick-bar overhand partial deadlifts with 1000lbs+ or closing the #3 then you're bang on, I totally agree not everyone can build up that kind of gripping strength.
 
Well, I feel that I started something I should finish. All of you have good points. For all of you who can do those massive lifts w/out straps, God bless. As many of you feel that straps short change grip strength, many would say the same of benching shirts. Why not just ditch the shirt and work to the wieght w/out using this form of aid???? Some food for thought as we put an end to this debate. Peace.
 
Yeah but powerlifters have to use the shirt because other people are using the shirt. But straps are NOT used in competition. That's not a good comparison at all.
 
punch,
you say to train your forearms like any other body part, and do so by use of wrist curls? This may put a little size on them, but it certainly won't do piss for strength.

Your overall theory on this thread creates a HUGE weak link for anyone interested in functional strength.
 
Wrist curls are but an example of excersizes for forearm size/strength. And as for strength, it ABSOLUTELY increases strength in your forearm, grip is ancillary in that movement. I attribute Wrist curls, reverse and hammers for all the size on my lower arm.
 
wrist flexors and finger flexors are different muscles. those that roll the bar down and back up their fingers get some grip work. but a 135lb finger curl with both hands is not a 150lb static hold with one hand, or even the equivalent of a 300lb deadlift without straps.
 
Nonerz said:
I read the entire post...I think everything has already been said!
Click to expand...

no one said how aliens dont have a strong grip but unusually long fingers which act like wrist wraps. this is a genetic trait that has was made dominant by years of their ancestors with long fingers who continued to use straps.:alien:











:D

so no, not everything was said my dear.
 
I reread the entire thread and my position on this issue remains the same...

Good point Nate on the difference of the various muscle groups involved in the different exercises.

C-ditty
 
Nonerz said:
I read the entire post...I think everything has already been said!
Click to expand...

What??? You didn't post anything about spanking, slapping, or anything else sexual. I am lonely and dissapointed!!!!

:)

B True
 
punch said:
Wrist curls are but an example of excersizes for forearm size/strength. And as for strength, it ABSOLUTELY increases strength in your forearm, grip is ancillary in that movement. I attribute Wrist curls, reverse and hammers for all the size on my lower arm.
Click to expand...
www.cyberpump.com
Go to this board for a while and learn about grip strength.
 
b fold the truth said:


What??? You didn't post anything about spanking, slapping, or anything else sexual. I am lonely and dissapointed!!!!

:)

B True
Click to expand...


Yeah me too. What gives?

:(
 
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