Upped My Dosage!

[Nelson Montana]

Of HRT, that is.

Yeah, I've been hitting it hard in the gym and decided to treat myself for a little while. Instead of 100mgs a week of HRT, I've been doing 200mgs for the last 2 weeks. I got serious with the diet and supps too. I increased my protein content -- at least 200 grams a day. No crap. (Okay, very little) and have been very diligent with the supps intake.

Let me tell ya...

Already, I see the result. -I'm thinker, denser and more vascular. The weights are going up easier. A LOT easier. And I've been getting comments from people on how big I look. (I'm up only a few pounds but you know that looking more muscular transfers to "bigger" to most people).

Moral of the story: You can't convince me that low dosages are worthless or that it takes weeks for gear to kick in. A lousy extra 100mgs of test (which takes my T level from 800 or so up to about 1000-1200) can make an incredible difference.

If everything is on point -- diet, training, rest. And with the help of some good supps, it really doesn't take huge dosages to make a difference. In fact, at this rate, it would be safe to say there's no reason to go "off." But I'm not greedy. I'll take this little present, do a mild PCT and accept my gains. Keep them. And go on from there.

I almost forgot how much fun it is to train with results like this.

 

[ben dovergurl]

up the dose...lift the most.

 

[TM248]

HRT means?

 

[armo72]

Slow and steady wins the race every time. Doing less test this cycle than last...will continue to lower dose in future cycles. But man thats a low dose!

 

[Vascular Freak]

Nelson did i give you the bug??!!!??? lol Good for you bro....very responsible so treat yourself a bit...maybe even just add a "smidget" more like 1 gram of primo and 50mg var??? lol MAUH!!!

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson did i give you the bug??!!!??? lol Good for you bro....very responsible so treat yourself a bit...maybe even just add a "smidget" more like 1 gram of primo and 50mg var??? lol MAUH!!!

A one gram smidget?! lol. I wish! Back in the day the most primo I ever did was 400 and it worked like a charm.

Yeah, 200 mgs can't even be considered a "cycle" but it shows that you can get results.

HRT is Hormone Replacement Therapy. (For us old fucks).

 

[Vascular Freak]

A one gram smidget?! lol. I wish! Back in the day the most primo I ever did was 400 and it worked like a charm.

Yeah, 200 mgs can't even be considered a "cycle" but it shows that you can get results.

HRT is Hormone Replacement Therapy. (For us old fucks).

yah i'm just being dumb man but really 400mg of pure primo is as good as near a gram now a days with less sides.

 

[OMEGA]

bump it up to 500

k?thx.bye

 

[r1]

Nelson: Have you tried doing your Test sub-q? A lot of HRT guys are doing it now with good results. I'm 100mg IM once per week, but am going to switch. Those who have tried it report superior E2 control.

Speaking of E2 control, do you run anything to keep the estrogens down while you're up at 200mg? I don't need anything at 100mg/week, but I am sure that I would at 200mg/week.

R1

 

[Triple J]

r1 - curious re: subq injects of T, is this done with normal test enanthate or cypionate, or something different? would like to hear more about this

 

[Mac173]

r1 - curious re: subq injects of T, is this done with normal test enanthate or cypionate, or something different? would like to hear more about this

bump

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson: Have you tried doing your Test sub-q? A lot of HRT guys are doing it now with good results. I'm 100mg IM once per week, but am going to switch. Those who have tried it report superior E2 control.

Speaking of E2 control, do you run anything to keep the estrogens down while you're up at 200mg? I don't need anything at 100mg/week, but I am sure that I would at 200mg/week.

R1

Not sure what the advantage of doing it subQ would be. I'd think you'd get a lump and it'd have to disipate sooner or later.

For e control I use the herbs and nutrients found in "POST CYCLE" (See below) But older guys in general need a little more so I throw in a teeny amount of a-dex ---1/4 mg twice a week. I won;t be changing that with 200mgs. It's not that much.

My e, prolactin and prog are always between 5 and 10 -- right where I want it.

 

[Rickdarula]

From the title, I thought this was gonna be a Geritol thread...hehe

Nelson, if your gonna go off your standard HRT dose and pump up the volume....why not jump up to 500 migs for 10 weeks and then go back down to 100. Increase the Adex to .5 ed...results should be through the roof.

Just a thought.

 

[Nelson Montana]

From the title, I thought this was gonna be a Geritol thread...hehe

Nelson, if your gonna go off your standard HRT dose and pump up the volume....why not jump up to 500 migs for 10 weeks and then go back down to 100. Increase the Adex to .5 ed...results should be through the roof.

Just a thought.

I know, the thinking is " You'll be back on HRT anyway so why not?" But the more you do, the more you surpress and I don't want to push it. For now I'm having fun. We'll see.

Hey, upped my Geritol dosage? I just got that!

 

[iHulk]

Why are you on HRT Nelson? What age did that start at?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Why are you on HRT Nelson? What age did that start at?

I know it's fashionable to go on as soon as you supposedly start to decline (as young as 30 say some -- which is crazy) but I resisted for a long time. I want my body to work at its optimum and I think supps can do amazing things for restoring HPTA and libido if you're healthy.

But at age 46 I really started to feel a lagging -- this hastened by some severe emotional stress which affected my pituitary and thyroid and...well, long story. My T was normal FOR MY AGE (around 325) and THAT just wasn't acceptable. So I went on and stayed on.

Keep in mind, I didn't do my first cycle until I was 41. And I never went heavy so I don't think that had anything to do with it.

 

[iHulk]

thanks for the answering brotha Montana. I'm most definitely will be on some sort of HRT when I hit my mid 40's... figured its inevitable. Thats really the only way to sustain a higher T level regardless of supplementation. But until then I'll just run cycles.

As for rhGH I think people start that way way way too young. But that is something I want to leap into soon ...

I know it's fashionable to go on as soon as you supposedly start to decline (as young as 30 say some -- which is crazy) but I resisted for a long time. I want my body to work at its optimum and I think supps can do amazing things for restoring HPTA and libido if you're healthy.

But at age 46 I really started to feel a lagging -- this hastened by some severe emotional stress which affected my pituitary and thyroid and...well, long story. My T was normal FOR MY AGE (around 325) and THAT just wasn't acceptable. So I went on and stayed on.

Keep in mind, I didn't do my first cycle until I was 41. And I never went heavy so I don't think that had anything to do with it.

 

[r1]

Most of the HRT guys on meso that have switched from IM to SubQ injects of Test Cyp (most HRT guys in the US use Test Cyp) report that they have been able to cut way back on AI meds like Arimidex. One of the most well known HRT doctors (Shippen) uses SubQ Test injects as one of his standard practices now.

When you inject into the fat, the Test is apparently released more slowly and steadily. So you don't get the spike in E2 and DHT that cause many men a lot of problems. A lot of you guys that are cycling can live with these problems since they are present for a relatively small amount of time (~12 weeks). However, the HRT guys like me (and Nelson) are in it for the long haul. Problems resulting from high E2 and DHT need to be addressed.

The drawback is, of course, you can't inject too much at once or you get a bubble or some will leak back out. Most guys can get away with 1/2cc at a time (100mg).

If you're doing 500mg/week, you could break it up into 2 SubQ shots on Monday and 3 on Thursday. That's a lot of shots, but I tell you what, it hurts a hell of lot less than going into the muscle! 27g x 1/2" needle is piece of cake compared to the 25g x 1" needle that I normally use in my leg. Even after being on HRT for the last 3 years and learning to relax, IM injections still leave me sore as hell.

R1

 

[sofakingdel]

Somebody claimed that they were on HRT at like 28, about a week ago. I'm gonna check my threads scipts and see who it was. Will a Doc prescribe HRT at any age past, say for example 20 (out of teen years), if your test is low enough?

 

[iHulk]

Somebody claimed that they were on HRT at like 28, about a week ago. I'm gonna check my threads scipts and see who it was. Will a Doc prescribe HRT at any age past, say for example 20 (out of teen years), if your test is low enough?

of course... if your T levels are in the gutter then yea, you can get prescribed. Same with HGH. My friend has a daughter that just won't grow. They got her on HGH.

 

[NYBodyguard]

OIL sub q???? PLEASE NOBODY TRY THIS YOU WILL BE LEFT WITH A HUGEEEEEEEEE LUMP AND BRUISE FOR MONTHS

 

[Papa Lion]

^^^ yeah this is the first I've ever heard of going sub-q with these substances.... but would rather hear some more... not for me personlly but my father is HRT and if it's better then I'd definitely like to know more... is there anybody with some more info/links or docs that I could have my father talk to about it??? his doc is somewhat dull when it comes to HRT

 

[Bruce]

yea bro mike fear who was one of the anafit guys was on hrt already at the age of like 22 or something. he had really low levels. you can get it young if you need it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Cupala points.

The reason one may need less less anti-e with subq injects is that you're getting less test! There's always some that gets into fat, which is why I see no reason to go bigger than 1". But I just don't think subQ would be a great idea.

You can get a script at any age and is one way to insure you'll always have pure gear on hand, but I think it's nuts to go on for life too early. I still use supps to keep my natural level as high as possible and for a guy in his 20's there's no need for HRT unless it's a really serious case of hereditary hypogonadolism.

 

[st8grad]

HRT = Huge Results from a ton of TEST. Nelson would agree to that right? From every post I have read of his, he is a huge proponent of doing AT LEAST a gram of test per week if not more.

Ok, just kidding. Nelson is probably one of the only guys to suggest the less is more theory and his posts really do make you think about how to make the most of your compounds. Whether or not guys agree with him, it does stimulate good debate and keeps the education of our bodies and gear moving in a positive direction.

 

[iHulk]

all in moderation. Some cycles are bigger than others. Can't all be small and can't all be gargantuan ...

unless u are a genetic freak, you'll be needing some serious dosages to get freaky swole...

HRT = Huge Results from a ton of TEST. Nelson would agree to that right? From every post I have read of his, he is a huge proponent of doing AT LEAST a gram of test per week if not more.

Ok, just kidding. Nelson is probably one of the only guys to suggest the less is more theory and his posts really do make you think about how to make the most of your compounds. Whether or not guys agree with him, it does stimulate good debate and keeps the education of our bodies and gear moving in a positive direction.

 

[r1]

Nelson:

Tests have shown that subq results in more Test getting into the body...not less. Here is a study that was done recently. I don't know the source, but I can find it and others as well.

Guys who have tried it report the same...ie, being able to slightly reduce the amount of weekly Test.

---------
STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED
WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE
INJECTIONS
M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada
Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement
has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide
variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous
(SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however,
its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated
the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using
SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and
September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving
10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.
Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for
41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with
testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL
200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior
abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated
to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.
Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration
is not officially approved by Health Canada. T
levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection
during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection
in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels
were measured however; the week 12 data are still being
collected. Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T
was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit
0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During
the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in
pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l
(p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T
(25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1
(27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with
no adverse effects. Conclusions: A once-week SC injection
of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and
stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers
fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of
medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term
clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further
evaluation.

-----

I know it sounds crazy and to be honest, there is no way in hell I would have tried this on my own. But, like I said, it has caught on well in the HRT community and Shippen has his HRT guys that take Test use this method now.

R1

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson:

Tests have shown that subq results in more Test getting into the body...not less. Here is a study that was done recently. I don't know the source, but I can find it and others as well.

Guys who have tried it report the same...ie, being able to slightly reduce the amount of weekly Test.

---------
STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED
WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE
INJECTIONS
M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada
Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement
has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide
variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous
(SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however,
its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated
the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using
SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and
September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving
10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.
Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for
41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with
testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL
200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior
abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated
to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.
Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration
is not officially approved by Health Canada. T
levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection
during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection
in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels
were measured however; the week 12 data are still being
collected. Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T
was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit
0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During
the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in
pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l
(p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T
(25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1
(27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with
no adverse effects. Conclusions: A once-week SC injection
of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and
stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers
fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of
medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term
clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further
evaluation.

-----

I know it sounds crazy and to be honest, there is no way in hell I would have tried this on my own. But, like I said, it has caught on well in the HRT community and Shippen has his HRT guys that take Test use this method now.

R1

Interesting. It breaks all the rules but that doesn't mean it can't be right, though that study doesn't make the most compelling case. I d also know that a lumpy injection is no fun and prone to abcess. Still, I'd be willing to hear more feedback from anyone who wants to pioneer this technique.