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TWO WEEK CYCLES are the safest!

Realgains

New member
I have posted on two week cycles before but I thought I should touch on the issue once again especially for the paranoid newbie.

Two weekers are a good start for the newbie and good for those that are tired of all the sides and especially a shitty lipid profile. They are also good for the very serious lifter that just want to play it as safe as possible.

Doing two week cycles with 4 week off year round will give similar results to doing 3 eight week cycles per year but will be much safer all round.


The worst side of AAS use BY FAR with men is a shitty lipid profile and usually VERY SHITTY. Two week cycles minimize time with a crappy lipid profile and this is obviously a good thing for long term health reasons.

Secondly , long cycles can cause testosterone recovery problems in some and even if HCG is used during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy, although HCG certainly helps.
Recovery of natural test production after a two weeker is very rapid and thus gains made are kept for the most part.

Other nasty sides like bad acne and hair loss are minimized with two week cycles. In fact my budies and I never get any acne at all during a two weeker. Acne for most seems to come on after three weeks and can get very bad indeed.

During the usual 4 week off period gains continue! This is probably because natural test levels normally rebound to a somewhat higher than normal level for a few weeks( higher than your usual norm) Also other metabolic factors are still in the "primed state" from the steroid use.
When was the last time you continued to gain immediately after a long cycle!

One can do two weeks on and then only two weeks off for a long time and even year round but this will eventually result in Testicular atrophy so using 300-500 iu's of HCG per day during each cycle is a good idea. Two on two off with HCG during the time "on" is better than being on steroids all year long for sure and can give excellent results.

Better yet do two weeks on and then four weeks off. This can safely be done ALL YEAR without HCG.


HORMONE CHOICES, DOSAGE and other tips.

Choice of hormone is VERY important when constructing a two week cycle. You must only use rapid acting roids and test. If you use hormones like Deca, test cyp, Eq or Primo the cycle will not be two weeks long due to the long acting nature of the esters used. You are then defeating the whole purpose of a two week cycle.


If you are still not at your natural maximum weight then you can get very good results from moderate doses of steroids, although the two weeker requires a little more per day than you would use in an 8-10 weeker.
D-bol at 30mg per day in five divided doses and tren at 50-75 per day will do just fine and will often give a 10 pound muscle gain if you are not at your natural max weight.
Front load the tren at 150 mg on day one in order to get blood hormone levels up right away.......you can't be waiting for good hormone levels during a two weeker. PLEASE do not be afraid of the loading dose as it will not hurt you at all.
Stop the d-bol after day 14 and the tren after day 12. Then hit clomid just to be safe on day 15 at 300 mg in divided doses and then 50 per day for 3-4 weeks.

For those that are at their natural max weight, which is usually about 190 fairly lean pounds at 5'-9", more is needed. You guys should try d-bol at 50 per day in 5 divided doses and tren at 75 per day. test prop at 100 per day after a 300mg front load would be a good idea for many. You could also throw in some winny at 50 per day or test prop at 100 per day. If you use the prop be sure to front load on day one with 300mg. Stop the prop after day 11.

For those of you that are well above your natural max weight then very large doses are needed, as they are with long cycles. You should try d-bol at 50 per day, tren at 100 with a 150-200 front load, test prop at 125-150 per day with a 300 front load and perhaps even winstrol at 50 per day. If you want to leave anything out then leave out the winny. Then hit clomid as above.

I know of many very large men that have gained a solid 5 pounds of muscle from a two weeker using 100 of prop per day for 11 days after a 300 front load, d-bol 50 per day through day 14 and tren at 75-100 per day through day 12 after a 150 front load.

NOTE: WINSTROL DEPOT hangs around for about a week after the last shot so it is best to use oral winsol through day 14 or the IM winny only during the first week.

If you are not a competitive BBer then perhaps two weekers are all you really need. Obviously two weekers are not for the advanced competitor but how many out there really are.

Best of luck and best of health!
 
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manny78 said:
I'm about to try a Prop or suspension, Dbols and Fina soon. I'll post the results after.

Good luck. Be sure to front load the injectables bro. I bet you keep a solid 5-7 pounds out of the deal.......and its neat to continue to gain a bit during the immediate off time of 2-4 weeks.

RG:)
 
nice one RG, informational as usual. I will be engaging in tren and test p 2 on 4 off here in about 2 weeks, or as soon as school settles. Will post results. Thanks and peace!:D
 
Realgains said:


Good luck. Be sure to front load the injectables bro. I bet you keep a solid 5-7 pounds out of the deal.......and its neat to continue to gain a bit during the immediate off time of 2-4 weeks.

RG:)
I was actually thinking about 200 mg of prop for the first 3-4 days, then 100 mg ED.
 
i made strenght gains right after 6 week cycles when i used winy.. But not with longer cycles on stuff like sust.
 
manny78 said:

I was actually thinking about 200 mg of prop for the first 3-4 days, then 100 mg ED.

Sounds good ......do the tren at 75-100 after a 150-200 front load bro.....Knowing you I am sure you know all this already.....this is more for the inexperienced bro.

RG:)
 
Realgains said:
Doing two week cycles with 4 week off year round will give similar results to doing 3 eight week cycles per year
2 on/4 off means you are on juice 1/3 of the time, right? Now, out of 52 weeks (one year) 1/3 is 17.3 weeks... how do you fit 3 eight-weekers in there???
 
I think the idea has merit, but I'm not covinced.

I don't like the idea of begining to shut down my own test production only to have supraphsiological levels of steroid hormones for two weeks - not even enough time for your body to kick into accelerated growth. It seem safer to stay away from steroids altogether to me.

I do realize that, regarding growth, there may be a cumulative effect over time. But I don't feel this is an efficent way to use steroids.

RG, can you post any data regarding repetative short cycles and recovery?
 
You'd burn through clomid like it was water doing this if you did a full 4 weeks of it after every 2 week cycle-- is it really necessary to run it that long? Also, if you only did 2 week cycles you'd really be limiting the choice of compounds you could use...
 
Re: Re: TWO WEEK CYCLES are the safest!

norr said:

2 on/4 off means you are on juice 1/3 of the time, right? Now, out of 52 weeks (one year) 1/3 is 17.3 weeks... how do you fit 3 eight-weekers in there???

Because one contnues to gain well during the off weeks after a two weeker then you can expect similar overall gains....similar to 3 eight weekers bro.....unless you don't have a good grasp on the difference between steroid training and natural training. If you continue to train like a steroid user on the 4 weeks off then no three 8 weekers will give better gains for the year.

I don't know of anyone who continues to gain in the immediate off weeks following an 8 weeker bro....and I have been juicing for 19 years. Usually a significant loss is seen.



RG
 
Lift Chief said:
You'd burn through clomid like it was water doing this if you did a full 4 weeks of it after every 2 week cycle-- is it really necessary to run it that long? Also, if you only did 2 week cycles you'd really be limiting the choice of compounds you could use...

Two weeks of clomid would okay.........clomid is cheap bro.

Test and tren are the two best hormones for mass bro........you have them both available for the two weeker. You just couldn't use primo, nandrolone deconate, EQ,

RG:)
 
Re: I think the idea has merit, but I'm not covinced.

Silent Method said:
I don't like the idea of begining to shut down my own test production only to have supraphsiological levels of steroid hormones for two weeks - not even enough time for your body to kick into accelerated growth. It seem safer to stay away from steroids altogether to me.

I do realize that, regarding growth, there may be a cumulative effect over time. But I don't feel this is an efficent way to use steroids.

RG, can you post any data regarding repetative short cycles and recovery?


Yes the two weeks will shut down natural test but the pituitary isn't inhibited so recovery is great.

If you shut yourself down for 8-10 weeks you may have a hard time with recovery since both the hypothalamus and pituitary are fully inhibited AND your nuts will have shrunk and that is worse.

Bro fast acting roids and test prop will give good results especially if the injectables are front loaded. True you will not see steller gains but thats not the point of a two weeker....safety and health are.

Bill Roberts has given evidence of the rapid test recovery after two week cycles. I have checked my test levels a week after two weekers on three occasions and they have rebounded to slightly higher than my norm...550-650. A couple of my buddies experienced the same thing. I get cheap blood work done at the hospital I work at so this is not a big deal for me to do.

It often takes a month or more before test levels normalize after long cycles and thus you loose gains and feel crappy.


RG
:)
 
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This is all very interesting-- the one thing is it just seems to me that there is something inherintly wrong with your hormones jumping around every 4 weeks. Would there be any negative effects of this as opposed to a traditional 8 week cycles where hormone levels are relatively constant throughout that time?

thanks--
this is making me rethink traditional cycles btw
 
what the hell I have tried all the other types of cycles, I guess my next one will be will be a dbol and test prop only for two weeks. then I will do the 4 weeks off and do my deca winny cycle.
 
Lift Chief said:
This is all very interesting-- the one thing is it just seems to me that there is something inherintly wrong with your hormones jumping around every 4 weeks. Would there be any negative effects of this as opposed to a traditional 8 week cycles where hormone levels are relatively constant throughout that time?

thanks--
this is making me rethink traditional cycles btw


Bro you are concerned and that is good but length of inhibition and the time "on" adrogens are the real issues. It would probably be best health wise to avoid steroids altogether but less time "on" and less inhibition and time inhibited is far better than months "on" with major inhibition and shruken nuts and a crappy lipid profile.

Bro as I said before the worst side of AAS use BY FAR in men is a very crappy lipid profile....and I mean shitty! Try a LDL to HDL ration of 15 or 20 to one!! So the main reason to use these short cycles is to minimize cardiovascular risk.
Also hair loss can be lessened in those that are prone to hair loss and acne is never an issue.
 
very nice, I for one like this approach mainly because I love the feeling I get from very high levels in my system even if it is for a short period of time. I wonder how the ol prostate would hold up under this approach. I had some bph after 5 weeks of fina at 75mg to start and then bumed to 100mg ed for the last two weeks. That wasnt any fun Ill tell ya. This would keep things real simple, thats for sure. prop, tren, hcg and lots of flax oil for 2 heavy ones on and 4 off. I like it. :) Thanks for the info RG.
 
40butpumpin said:
very nice, I for one like this approach mainly because I love the feeling I get from very high levels in my system even if it is for a short period of time. I wonder how the ol prostate would hold up under this approach. I had some bph after 5 weeks of fina at 75mg to start and then bumed to 100mg ed for the last two weeks. That wasnt any fun Ill tell ya. This would keep things real simple, thats for sure. prop, tren, hcg and lots of flax oil for 2 heavy ones on and 4 off. I like it. :) Thanks for the info RG.


Hey bro I am 40 too and us old guys(even though I can still out run and out lift 90% of this board he he he ) need to watch the lipid profile and prostate very closely. The last long cycle of tren/test I did resulted in an elevated PSA and that scared the crap out of me....thus another reason to think about two weekers.

Don't forget to take 1.5 grams of non time released Niacin along with those essential fatty acids while "on"...for the lipid profile.

RG:)
 
would 2 weeks be the longest amount of time you could run the cycle for? or could you go up to 4 weeks? Just curious what the longest short cycle would be.

The only other question i have is would you have to switch compounds every cycle-- or since it's shorter can you stick to the same compounds for like 3 or 4 of these shorter cycles?
thanks--
 
For what it's worth, someof you might a piece I wrote back in 1997 called STEROIDS FOR HEALTH that advocated the use of short cycles. It had some innacuracies (as did all the information on roids at that time) but the premise stll holds true. The body cannot maintain huge gains that are too abrupt. Plus, the longer you're on, the longer you're supressed. Gaining 5-6 pounds at a clip is the way to go. Of course, that isn't enough for some people. But do you have any idea how long it would take to gain five solid pounds of muscle naturally? Most people couldnt do it in a year. Yet, 4 short cycles a year will yield 20 pounds. And you KEEP it!

I don't agree with the method that was proposed here, however. I'm currently putting together new information that will update the SFH principles. For now, I'll say that one injectable and one oral is all you need. I would no longer recommend Deca and I'd never use vet stuff -- anxiety, flu symptoms, allegies -- something is obviously not right. But people ignore this evidence and contnue to use them.
 
could you post your theories on this topic? Are you advocating 4 2 week cycles per year? Any information is appreciated.
--thanks
 
Guys.. perhaps the point wasnt made clear in the original post, but the reason behind the 2/4 and not 4/4 or 6/6 or 3/3..etc is because according to research (from that testosterone.net article steroids from health) it was said 2 weeks of aas usage is the most the body can take before it will shut down natural test... so if yo ustop at the 2 week mark with fast acting compounds your body wont be shut down and those 4 weeks of rest will give the body ample time of recovery, i dont think youd need that much clomid if running the 2/4 cycles, but like the bro said its cheap and it wont hurt.. as long as you can handle the emotional effects

that article caught my eyes a few years back, and every few months it seems someone mentions these cycles and everyone gets excited and wants to hop on the FWC (Fancy Wagon Cycle as referred to on anabolicfitness...) bandwagon... but there never seems to be any real informatioin on results from these cycles and everything fades back to 8 week.. year on.. suicide type cycles, shadowing this style of aas usage...

more information on results, including compounds used, training style on off, post cycle treatment...etc would be much appreciated.
 
I don't recall saying that 4 weeks was ample time to recover. Although there won't be much suppression I'd still recommend waiting a couple of MONTHS before beginning another cycle. This is only if you're interested in maintaining your health and the logevity of your HPTA. A lot of guys don't care.

I also stated that Clomid or Nolvadex was not nessesary. And incidentally, it CAN hurt.
 
wasn't it said that someone could safely run 2 week on/4 week off cycles for an entire year more safely than 2 or 3 big cycles per year? So what your recommend, nelson, is to run a 2 week cycle then take 2 MONTHS off before the next 2 weeker?... That seems like a very long time to recover from such a short cycle-- couldn't the body safely rebound in less time than that?
 
nelson explain your new theory. i hate to have to shoot over and over after every month why can't it be 2 weeks on 8 weeks off. the hting with me is if i decide to ever use gear I don't really care about weight i have enough but like to cut down BF but jump 30 pounds atleast on press and improve overall in strength i doubt 2 weeks is enough for that
 
ok Im game I got a cycle coming up and I would like to know what a sample cycle would look like using test and tren

would it be
tren 75 ed week 1-2
test 100 ed week 1-2
off 4 weeks then repeat

any HCG?
or proviron?

clomid nolva anyone who has RUN this cycle please pM me and let me know what's up

and why wouldn't you use primo since Primo doesn't shut down HTPA right?

so couldn't you run a 10 week cycle of primo and then concurrent 2 week cycles of test and tren?

I am interested to be the guinea pig for this if anyone is willing to sare information
 
I am going to throw out an alternative cycle approach that was prescribed by a doctor in the early 80s to me and some of my college athlete buddies.I can't remember the dosages exactly, they were low, but we all had gains using this approach.

You are on something 2/3 of the time 20 days at a run - but very low doses and just one shot of something at the beginning with a slow sustained release, and orals ED for 20 days.

The doc always gave us one shot of deca to kick off cycle, 2 tabs dbol for 10 days, 1 tab dbol (5mg as I recall) for 10 days, 10 days off, repeat cycle. Year-round, or at least pre and in-season, on these very low dosages. He would rotate the orals, winnie or ox instead of d. Always an rx for 30 tabs.

If I were to do this today, at my age, I would want to avoid the deca and go with test enanthate or something like that. I don't know what dose though, but maybe two shots to get a more gradual release. What I don't really know is what I would do about an anti-e. Probably nolva would be good for the 10 days off and recovery but preferably it would be nice to have the T low enough to avoid sides during the cycle, while still high enough to get some benefit, avoiding the need for the anti-e during cycle?

What do ya think?
 
Very interesting stuff RG. Thanks for posting it, I'd like to hear more opinions/results. My last cycle post cycle bloodwork wasn't very good in terms of my cholesterol so this might be a good alternative.
 
I don't want to use a thread for self promotion (My blatant signature is plenty) :) But I address all these issues in an upcoming book which will have much more drug info than The Bodybuilding Truth. Maybe George will be interested in carrying my "Steroids For Health 2002" report as a preview to the books release.

The thing to realize is, the program is very specific in its purpose and effects. If you want to use roids to safely enhance natural training, it can be done. Problems arise when people want to start "molding it" to suit their desires. If you want to use vet roids, it isn't the program. If you want to extend it, it isn't the program. If you want to go back on sooner, it isn't the program. If you want to gain 30 pounds in 6 weeks, it isn't the program. If you want to use Clomid, it isn't the program.

Lift Chief. Your goals are counter productive. Steroids are best used for gaining size. Using them as an "anti-catabolic" aid while dieting is not the way they're intended to be used and will not yield optimum results.

And by the way, 6 years after taking my last roid, I still have the same bodyweight -- which is 40 pounds more than my "natural" maximum weight. And I have the same bf%, even though I'm in my 40's.
 
This is interesting. I thought it usually takes D-bol like 2 weeks to really start noticing? I notice T- Prop within a few days, but how about Fina? How long does it usually take to notice kicking in? Also about minimising sides. Would you say you have less chance to get gyno from Fina going with this 2 week approach, I have not used Fina for fear of Gyno. I got gyno from T-prop in less than 2 weeks. I'm afraid that it will happen again, so I don't know if I'm going to use it again. I do believe 2 weekers would be alot easier on your body. GOOD POST.
 
siceone said:
ok Im game I got a cycle coming up and I would like to know what a sample cycle would look like using test and tren

would it be
tren 75 ed week 1-2
test 100 ed week 1-2
off 4 weeks then repeat

any HCG?
or proviron?

clomid nolva anyone who has RUN this cycle please pM me and let me know what's up

and why wouldn't you use primo since Primo doesn't shut down HTPA right?

so couldn't you run a 10 week cycle of primo and then concurrent 2 week cycles of test and tren?

I am interested to be the guinea pig for this if anyone is willing to sare information


i thought the idea was after week 3 alot of sides occur. So you need to be almost back to natural by day 22.

I would only run the prop for days 1-7, and the fina days 1-10. An oral could augment the cycle for days 8-14.
 
a friend of mine squat800 who is also a member on this board usually runs only 4 week cycles and he is in the top 30 of the best powerlifters in the world. He is lucky because he dont shut down hardly at all and for a long time never used clomid and still maintained strenth!
 
Nord from what i understand you should run fina and prop up until day 12 and the oral up until day 14. You may be able to run prop up till day 13 cause of its shorter half life.
 
I recently did a 2 week cycle of D-BOL, partly to know my sensivity to AAS and side effects.

I´m plagued with acne since I was 17, so that was a main issue for me.

week 1 beginning on friday I took 15 mg , week 2 took 20 mg, saturday 15mg, Sunday, 10mg, Monday 5mg. So a total of 17 days.

No change in training volume or calories

Gained 2.5 pounds and lost 1 pound fat, a total gain of 3.5 pound muscle with absolutely no side effects ( that I'm aware off) and no increase in acne.

2 weeks into recovery and I´ve lost nothing.

I plan to experiment more on 2 weeks this time adding an injectable.

My 2 cents
 
Lift Chief said:
would 2 weeks be the longest amount of time you could run the cycle for? or could you go up to 4 weeks? Just curious what the longest short cycle would be.

The only other question i have is would you have to switch compounds every cycle-- or since it's shorter can you stick to the same compounds for like 3 or 4 of these shorter cycles?
thanks--

three or four week cycles would be pretty safe in regard to lipid profile, but you would propbably get some acne although not too much. Hair loss would be more of an issue with a 4 weeker if you are prone to hair loss.

BUT......After about 2.5, maybe 3 weeks the pituitary, and not just the hypothalamus goes to sleep, so recovery of natural test is slower.

There is never a need to switch compounds. The bodybuilder really only needs two compounds to achieve all his goals and they are tren and test...tren/test for mass and simply tren ,with a some amount of test for libido, when cutting.

RG



:)
 
AlPhASiLvErBaCk said:
hey RG, what about a test prop and durabolin(dubol' s from india)cycle dosage for 2 weeks?
what do you think about a four week cycle?


yes nandrolone phenylprop(Durabolin) or the stuff from India would work since its half life is about 2 days. The thing is it wouldn't be my first choice since tren is available. You want to use very strong androgens for this limited time period.

A 4 week cycle would be pretty safe as I said above in regard to limiting time with a shitty lipid profile and minimizing hair loss if you are prone to that and ance....BUT.....recovery of natural test would be about the same as with an 8 weeker.

RG:)
 
I thought I would just clear some things up here......

#1. We are not doing two weekers for maximum gains we are doing them to be conservative and to minimize potential negative health risks. They also seem to allow for better natural training in the 2-4 weeks "off" periods between cycles.
If you want to be "on" steroids all year round then 2 on 4 off is best.

#2. After about 2.5 to 3 weeks the pituitary shuts down and not just the hypothalamus so recovery of natural test is slower and thus you loose a higher percentage of gains.

#3. Even a couple days of the strong androgens will totally shut down your natural test production bro's. Even one shot of the weak androgen nandrolone will shut you down. As soon as the HPTA sences a high level of androgen in the blood a signal is sent to the testes to STOP PRODUCTION....this doesn't take very long.

Small doses of primo often times do not shut you down even after weeks but then again primo is not for a two weeker because it is an a very slow acting ester(unless you use orals) and is too weak.

#4. All the orals, including d-bol, will start to work almost immediately and you will notice a difference in a few days. The injectables trenbolone acetate and test prop will start to work very quickly too, especially if loading doses are done on day one to get blood hormone levels up in a hurry.

#5. HCG is not needed since two weeks will not result in much if any testes shrinkage....thus another reason why naturaL test comes back so quickly.
If you do 2 on 2 off for several cycles then you will experience some shrinkage so if you want to do that then take 300-500iu's of HCG per day either IM or Sub Q in the belly fat while "on".

#6 Clomid is still needed since the hypothalamus has been inhibited during the two weeks and the clomid will block estrogen at the hypothalamus and help recovery. I take it for the full 4 weeks off simple because it seems to help keep natural test high and there is also a cardiovascular benefit form its use( acts as an estrogen at the liver and makes ateries supple)
Two weeks would probably be enough and you could probably get away with not using it at all although you would probably loose a little size.

#7. You MUST only use fast acting roids and test as the longer acting eters will not allow a true two week cycle. Front loading of injectables is also a must unless you are using test suspension.

#8. Even plain old d-bol 30-50 mg per day in 5 divided doses or anadrol 50 three times per day will give great results for many in but 14 days of use and this limited time "on" 17aa roids will have no permanent liver consequences.
If you are at your natural maximum weight ie(190 fairly lean pounds at 5'9 or 10") then you would be wise to stack another strong androgen or two.

#9. You may wish to use Tylers detox pills and or r-ala while using 17aa roids even for two weeks.

#10. Two weekers are NOT for the highly competitive .

Best of luck and health to you all.

RG
:)
 
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kyle said:
nice post RG

RG and others, can we see some more results from people who have tried this?


Okay.....Realgains last year was 5'10" 235 fairly lean pounds...probably about 10% bodyfat. Did a front load of 200mg tren and then 100 per day for 12 days. Also did d-bol 50mg per day for 14 days and test prop 100 mg per day after a 300mg front load. Stopped the prop after day 11. Clomid on day15 through 4 weeks off.
Gain was 7 pounds!

Training partner.....6'1" 245 pretty lean. Did the same as me and gained 6 pounds.

Since we are both well above our natural limit we were not able to gain a great deal or hold onto the gains for more than a few months...BUT....if you are not yet at your natural max weight(ie:5'9 or 10 and a lean 190 ) then you should gain more and keep it all.
Contrary to what some may tell you the steroid user will always shrink down to his natural maximum weight or very slightly more (due to actual muscle cell increases and not just hypertrohy) in time no matter how good you train, eat and sleep. Don't ever think that you can attained permanently to any more than 5-10 above your natural maximum weight from steroid use

Example 3: Personal client. 5'9" 175 pre cycle .....he did tren 150 on day one and then 75 per day and also d-bol 50mg in five divided doses for 14 days. He Kept 10 pounds bumping himself up close to his natural max weight. That was 6 months ago and he has kept it all and has actually gained another 3 pounds through wise natural training!

My lipid profile only changed very slightly as compaired to drastically for an 8 weeker. My liver enzymes very very slightly elevated. No change in BUN or creatinine(kidney function) I got NO ACNE and I usually get very bad acne on a long cycle.
Testes never shrunk and test rebounded a week after to 650...my normal is 550.

RG
:)
 
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davidpro said:
Realgains, why you did not use it all year long?


I have not used steroids at all for over a year bro. After 19 years I thought I needed a long break. I have managed to stay at a very lean 215 though hard work.

RG:)
 
Oh BTW those dudes over at the Fina board don't know what they are talking about. They are bad mouthing short cycles having never tried them. Nobody is saying that two weekers give huge gains but they do work if large doses of front loaded highly androgenic injectables and powerful orals are used.
Its a good way to get far better gains than through natural training yet limit the negatives.

RG:(
 
Realgains said:
Oh BTW those dudes over at the Fina board don't know what they are talking about. They are bad mouthing short cycles having never tried them. Nobody is saying that two weekers give huge gains but they do work if large doses of front loaded highly androgenic injectables and powerful orals are used.
Its a good way to get far better gains than through natural training yet limit the negatives.

RG:(

Hey bro!

These are some really interressting posts!
What other roids would be suitable for 2-weekers?
What about Oral Winny/Anavar in high doses?

Thanks!
 
So, I thought of doing these 2 weeks on 4 weeks off thingies with 50mg of winstrol ED. Would this be any effective? I would do it for a year or so. Would I need clomid during the off-time?
 
Realgains said:
I have posted on two week cycles before but I thought I should touch on the issue once again especially for the paranoid newbie.

Two weekers are a good start for the newbie and good for those that are tired of all the sides and especially a shitty lipid profile. They are also good for the very serious lifter that just want to play it as safe as possible.

Doing two week cycles with 4 week off year round will give similar results to doing 3 eight week cycles per year but will be much safer all round.


The worst side of AAS use BY FAR with men is a shitty lipid profile and usually VERY SHITTY. Two week cycles minimize time with a crappy lipid profile and this is obviously a good thing for long term health reasons.

Secondly , long cycles can cause testosterone recovery problems in some and even if HCG is used during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy, although HCG certainly helps.
Recovery of natural test production after a two weeker is very rapid and thus gains made are kept for the most part.

Other nasty sides like bad acne and hair loss are minimized with two week cycles. In fact my budies and I never get any acne at all during a two weeker. Acne for most seems to come on after three weeks and can get very bad indeed.

During the usual 4 week off period gains continue! This is probably because natural test levels normally rebound to a somewhat higher than normal level for a few weeks( higher than your usual norm) Also other metabolic factors are still in the "primed state" from the steroid use.
When was the last time you continued to gain immediately after a long cycle!

One can do two weeks on and then only two weeks off for a long time and even year round but this will eventually result in Testicular atrophy so using 300-500 iu's of HCG per day during each cycle is a good idea. Two on two off with HCG during the time "on" is better than being on steroids all year long for sure and can give excellent results.

Better yet do two weeks on and then four weeks off. This can safely be done ALL YEAR without HCG.


HORMONE CHOICES, DOSAGE and other tips.

Choice of hormone is VERY important when constructing a two week cycle. You must only use rapid acting roids and test. If you use hormones like Deca, test cyp, Eq or Primo the cycle will not be two weeks long due to the long acting nature of the esters used. You are then defeating the whole purpose of a two week cycle.


If you are still not at your natural maximum weight then you can get very good results from moderate doses of steroids, although the two weeker requires a little more per day than you would use in an 8-10 weeker.
D-bol at 30mg per day in five divided doses and tren at 50-75 per day will do just fine and will often give a 10 pound muscle gain if you are not at your natural max weight.
Front load the tren at 150 mg on day one in order to get blood hormone levels up right away.......you can't be waiting for good hormone levels during a two weeker. PLEASE do not be afraid of the loading dose as it will not hurt you at all.
Stop the d-bol after day 14 and the tren after day 12. Then hit clomid just to be safe on day 15 at 300 mg in divided doses and then 50 per day for 3-4 weeks.

For those that are at their natural max weight, which is usually about 190 fairly lean pounds at 5'-9", more is needed. You guys should try d-bol at 50 per day in 5 divided doses and tren at 75 per day. test prop at 100 per day after a 300mg front load would be a good idea for many. You could also throw in some winny at 50 per day or test prop at 100 per day. If you use the prop be sure to front load on day one with 300mg. Stop the prop after day 11.

For those of you that are well above your natural max weight then very large doses are needed, as they are with long cycles. You should try d-bol at 50 per day, tren at 100 with a 150-200 front load, test prop at 125-150 per day with a 300 front load and perhaps even winstrol at 50 per day. If you want to leave anything out then leave out the winny. Then hit clomid as above.

I know of many very large men that have gained a solid 5 pounds of muscle from a two weeker using 100 of prop per day for 11 days after a 300 front load, d-bol 50 per day through day 14 and tren at 75-100 per day through day 12 after a 150 front load.

NOTE: WINSTROL DEPOT hangs around for about a week after the last shot so it is best to use oral winsol through day 14 or the IM winny only during the first week.

If you are not a competitive BBer then perhaps two weekers are all you really need. Obviously two weekers are not for the advanced competitor but how many out there really are.

Best of luck and best of health!

This would only work with test suspension or fina suspension.

You'd have to shoot as much as you physically could to get
results.

Even then....they are going to be shitty.

You could pound down the T3(150mcgs/day) to accelerate
protein synthesis further....but that might only equate to an extra lb of muscle gained...if that.

Fonz
 
Here you guys go:

http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34527

There is more explanation of this here. Apparently this is a common European technique.
Two things I'd like to point out here are that
1. This is a way of conservatively cycling steroids, not a way to get freaky huge or explode in a short time. It's a way to enhance your natural gains in a way your body can more readily deal with and more realistically keep.
2. The choices for hormones are based on two characteristics: anabolic and androgenic. Every steroid is balanced between these to features, and you need to choose a stack that covers both. On top of that, they have to be short-acting steroids otherwise it takes too long to see any results. Choices here are anavar, winny, tren, test prop, durabolin, dbol, anadrol, test supsension.
I personally think this is a great approach and will try it in the future. I am currently on a 10 week "classic American" bulk cycle, so I will have something to compare it to. Although I have gained siginifcant weight (30+ lbs) and added 60 lbs to my bench in only six-seven weeks, I've added more bodyfat than I think is healthy. Not to mention stretch marks, joint pain, fatigue, etc. I really question how wise it is to do this several times a year.
To each his own...
Peace,
DAW
 
ungbygger said:


Hey bro!

These are some really interressting posts!
What other roids would be suitable for 2-weekers?
What about Oral Winny/Anavar in high doses?

Thanks!

You could use the weaker fast acting and clearing roids like winstrol and anavar but it is really best to use pretty high doses of highly androgenic roids and test like test prop, test suspension, tren acetate or suspension if you can find it, d-bol and anadrol.

Two weeks isn't a very long time to see results BUT if you front load the injectables like tren acetate and test prop and pound the heavy orals like d-bol and anadrol then you can see decent results in 14 days.....not steller results like with an 8 weeker but a hundred times better than training naturally. Test suspension and tren suspension , if you can find it, do not need front loads as blood hormone levels will but up in a matter of hours.



RG
 
Antti said:
So, I thought of doing these 2 weeks on 4 weeks off thingies with 50mg of winstrol ED. Would this be any effective? I would do it for a year or so. Would I need clomid during the off-time?


I wouldn't use winstrol alone because it wouldn't be that effective..too weak . It does work well combined test or tren though. Also winstrol is the hardest hormone on the lipid profile so I wouldn't want to use it all year round even with 2 on 4 off......although you could probably get away with it if you used 1.5-3 grams of niacin per day most of the time. Be sure to keep a close eye on your liver enyzmes while on winstrol AND niacin both of which can be hard on the liver.

RG:)
 
Re: Re: TWO WEEK CYCLES are the safest!

Fonz said:


This would only work with test suspension or fina suspension.

You'd have to shoot as much as you physically could to get
results.

Even then....they are going to be shitty.

You could pound down the T3(150mcgs/day) to accelerate
protein synthesis further....but that might only equate to an extra lb of muscle gained...if that.

Fonz


Fonz made a good recommendation......a couple weeks of T3 would be helpful. Tren reduces T3 and T4 production. I have experienced that while "on" tren as I frequently get my thyroid levels checked sinced I have been hypothyroid since age 12.

Shitty results?....well that depends on a couple of things....if you are not at your natural maximum weight then the results are pretty good but if you are at your natural max(few are) or above it then results will be less.
I guess if you are used to seeing the results from 8-10 weekers then yes the results from a two weeker are not going to seem impressive.....BUT...if you have been working like at bastered as a natural trainee for years then the results from a heavy two weeker will seem great indeed.

One thing to remember.....in most traditional cycles one does not get blood hormone levels up to optimal levels right away unless one front loads or uses a powerful oral so you don't noramlly see anything until the end of week two or sometimes latter than that.

I always got my best results from a traditional cycle from about day 14 through week 4 or 5 and then after that things always tapered off quite a bit.

RG
:)
 
For someone who is doing their second cycle-- first cycle using fina. 6-2 200 pounds - lean. Would 75mg EOD for 2 weeks be ok or should i do 75 ED. I would consider doing 150 EOD but i think that would kill my delts-- maybe i'm wrong? What do you think, realgains?

--again- thanks
 
Lift Chief said:
For someone who is doing their second cycle-- first cycle using fina. 6-2 200 pounds - lean. Would 75mg EOD for 2 weeks be ok or should i do 75 ED. I would consider doing 150 EOD but i think that would kill my delts-- maybe i'm wrong? What do you think, realgains?

--again- thanks

Do 75 per day and rotate the injection sites between lateral delts, mid lateral thigh and upper outer glutes. I have even done traps and chest but you have to make sure you pull back very well to check if you are in one of the many veins in these regions.

You should use another compound too...try d-bol with the tren.
:) RG
 
There seems to be some confusion over hormone choices so I thought I would help to clear that up.

The best hormones for muscle growth are those that are #1. Highly androgenic AND anabolic and #2. aromatize.
I can hear some of you saying that the aromatization thing is only about water gain but that is not so. Yes water gain will come BUT the estrogen also helps with strength and mass gain. This has been my finding after 19 years of use and is also the finding reported by most other vets. It seesm that estrogen is important to some degree in IGF-1 release.
Another thing to note is that if you get too carried away with estrogen inhibitors like arimidex then gains will suffer.

It is also a good idea to stack a class 1 with a class 2 hormone. Class one roids work primarily at the AR (tren, nandrolone and test) Class 2 hormones work via the AR too but more so via non AR mediated mechanisms (winstrol, d-bol , anandrol)
The only hormone that works very well at both is testosterone and that is why it is KING IMHO.
Nandrolone and tren are best at the AR though.

Best hormones for mass are #1. Testosterone, #2. D-bol or anadrol. The only non aromatizing roid that is decent for mass is tren.
You can combine winny and nandrolne for good mass and d-bol and nandrolone for good mass and there are other combo's with the weaker androgens that are pretty good but as far as individual hormones are concerned the above list rules.

So for the two weeker its best to stick with the strongest hormones available.

RG








:)
 
Realgains:You're dead-on in some respects but a bit off on others.

You're absolutelly right about estrogen. There is an overconcern with it and everybody is willin got start popping anti-e's after one dianabol. Estrogen has many advantages and suppressing it should only be necessary if excessive aromatization occurs -- which would not be the case is dosages are kept reasonable.

(Incidentally, I know people have a hard time comprehending that and will continue to go about doing things the wrong way, but there's little I can do about it).

I find some contradiction in your statements however. Yes, test is king, and ALL steroids are based on the test molecule (essentially).

Anadrol will not aromatize to estrogen but it's high is progesterone (as is Deca) which can lead to puffy nips. ( nonestrogenic gyno.)

You compare Winstrol with Anadrol but the two are as different as can be. Since Winstrol with increase DHT, it may at as an anti-estrogen. It also as anti progesterone effects and is non bloating whereas Anadrol is very progesterongenic and very bloating. And the fact that Anadrol is considered a strong drug is absolutely wrong. It's a weak drug -- which is why it's made in a 50 mg tablet. Sure, it blows you up (water weight fron the progesterone) but you piss twice and lose 25 pounds. An equal amount of d-bol is much more powerful.

As far as steroids such as Winny (as well as Proviron) binding to AR, it's an advantage because DHT can not be converted to estogen. But in the case of Deca, there's no such advantage.

As far as Tren goes --never took it -- never will -- would never recommend it.
 
Nelson...

I've read your work elsewhere and find some of it thought provoking... As is the last line of your previous post...

Why do you dislike Trenbolone?

DrG
 
DrG: In response to your question.

I know this is an unpopular thing to say, (especially around here) but I'll say it anyway.

VETERINARIAN DRUGS ARE NOT MEANT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION!

They often contain other compounds that are toxic such as de-worming medicine. (Surprised? Why should you be? The drug company doesn't have to warn you -- you're not a cow, and only a cow is supposed to be taking it.)

The proof is in the fact that so many of them cause side effects of unknown origin -- anxiety, flu symptoms, hives, night sweats, flucuations i temperature, etc. Besides, the purity guidelines are not the same.

Trenbolone is also very kidney toxic.

If that isn't enough, there isn't anything else I can say that will convince anyone otherwise.
 
Nelson Montana said:
DrG: In response to your question.

I know this is an unpopular thing to say, (especially around here) but I'll say it anyway.

VETERINARIAN DRUGS ARE NOT MEANT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION!

They often contain other compounds that are toxic such as de-worming medicine. (Surprised? Why should you be? The drug company doesn't have to warn you -- you're not a cow, and only a cow is supposed to be taking it.)

The proof is in the fact that so many of them cause side effects of unknown origin -- anxiety, flu symptoms, hives, night sweats, flucuations i temperature, etc. Besides, the purity guidelines are not the same.

Trenbolone is also very kidney toxic.

If that isn't enough, there isn't anything else I can say that will convince anyone otherwise.

Ok but trenbolone have been a human drug before(parabolan) and I have never seen possible kidneys problem on their safety sheet...And if you get your tren from a reputable underground lab made with pure tren powder rather than pellets you dont get any of these dewormer...
 
Realgains said:



Okay.....Realgains last year was 5'10" 235 fairly lean pounds...probably about 10% bodyfat. Did a front load of 200mg tren and then 100 per day for 12 days. Also did d-bol 50mg per day for 14 days and test prop 100 mg per day after a 300mg front load. Stopped the prop after day 11. Clomid on day15 through 4 weeks off.
Gain was 7 pounds!

so are you advocating 3 steroids for this this cycle or 2? you say only 2 are needed but others in converstion and you in the quote above say 3. I'm pretty sure you only mentioned 3 because you're freakin 5'10" 235 and not 5'8" 170 like myself, but i just want to clear this up so i don't get mixed up.
 
I sometimes wonder if anyone has any idea what the difference is between 200mgs of 3 steroids and 300mgs of 2 steroids.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Realgains:You're dead-on in some respects but a bit off on others.

You're absolutelly right about estrogen. There is an overconcern with it and everybody is willin got start popping anti-e's after one dianabol. Estrogen has many advantages and suppressing it should only be necessary if excessive aromatization occurs -- which would not be the case is dosages are kept reasonable.

(Incidentally, I know people have a hard time comprehending that and will continue to go about doing things the wrong way, but there's little I can do about it).

I find some contradiction in your statements however. Yes, test is king, and ALL steroids are based on the test molecule (essentially).

Anadrol will not aromatize to estrogen but it's high is progesterone (as is Deca) which can lead to puffy nips. ( nonestrogenic gyno.)

You compare Winstrol with Anadrol but the two are as different as can be. Since Winstrol with increase DHT, it may at as an anti-estrogen. It also as anti progesterone effects and is non bloating whereas Anadrol is very progesterongenic and very bloating. And the fact that Anadrol is considered a strong drug is absolutely wrong. It's a weak drug -- which is why it's made in a 50 mg tablet. Sure, it blows you up (water weight fron the progesterone) but you piss twice and lose 25 pounds. An equal amount of d-bol is much more powerful.

As far as steroids such as Winny (as well as Proviron) binding to AR, it's an advantage because DHT can not be converted to estogen. But in the case of Deca, there's no such advantage.

As far as Tren goes --never took it -- never will -- would never recommend it.



Nelson..........I can't believe I didn't catch myself....Yes you are correct Anadrol is NOT estrogenic and in fact is progestogenic and as such can cause similar sides to the aromatizing roids, especially bloat.

I wouldn't say that anadrol is weak bro even though it takes a lot more mg's to be effective than say d-bol. It is a very powerful hormone and 150 per day will really be effective. It is a very powerful mass builder and in fact many consider it to be the single best roid in this regard. Part of its power comes from the fact that it is a very powerful anadrogen.

Nelson winstrol does not increase DHT. It remains as winstrol at the scalp.

About the tren and the kidney thing.
Nelson that is a myth started by the late Dan Ducaine and has no merrit at all. If it was true then we would have lots of young men in the hospital with acute kidney issues especaially in small town rural mid western USA since this is often the only steroid readily available.
I have always followed myself with blood work while "on" roids and I have never ever had any elevation in BUN or creatinine( kidney indicators) and I have done 100mg of tren per day for 10 weeks at a time.
I encourage you to try tren and get blood work done at week 4 or so.

RG:)
 
evil jared said:


so are you advocating 3 steroids for this this cycle or 2? you say only 2 are needed but others in converstion and you in the quote above say 3. I'm pretty sure you only mentioned 3 because you're freakin 5'10" 235 and not 5'8" 170 like myself, but i just want to clear this up so i don't get mixed up.


Total mg's used is the most important factor but not the only one. Certain hormones work better if they are stacked together.
That said.... you could get good results from test alone but that is the only hormone that I would use alone for building mass. It is the only one that has good class one and class two activity.
Okay... you could do quite well with only d-bol or anadrol too.

Tren and test or tren and d-bol are best I think.
You don't need three hormones but tren, test and d-bol is a nice combo.

I like to recommend three for the guys that are above their natural max weight simply because I think it is the best way to get to a higher total mg dose...there is something to be said about stacking although it is a little over rated.

RG:)
 
Nelson Montana

Hello, I'm a very conservative user (only one cycle one year ago) mostly because I have grown very well naturally. At 230lbs and 14% I am considering going on a consistent regimen and am interested in your opinion as to what the optimal cycle length should be. I shut down badly (I believe) on deca and didn't make any non-drug gains for a good six months post last cycle. Also how do you recover endogenous test production without clomid?
My next cycle is not far away and I'm probably gonna go the route outlined here with 25mgs dbol/day (any more has my back painfully swollen) and 75mgs tren ed/eod (10ml over two weeks).
 
Realgains: Glad to hear you're getting blood tests and everything looks good. But that doesn't mean tren isn't toxic. There are people who smoke a pack of cigerettes a day and live to be 85. There are guys who sock away a bottle of booze each night and have no liver problems. That doesn't mean the threat doesn't exist or that it won't catch up to you. No thanks on the tren offer. Besides, I'm clean these days -- just test replacement straight from the doc.

The fact that W is hard on the hair, reduces SHBG, and only aromatizes in stupid dosages suggests a strong conversion to DHT.

Anadrol? Ain't worth it. Toxic, bloating, high blood pressure, gyno. Nah. Winny and d-bol for me.

Mandinka: The only way to bounce back is to let your body do it naturally. If dosages are kept low, and you're young and healthy, it shouldn't be a problem. Look at all the guys from the 60's. No anti-e's. No gyno.

Your problem was probably the deca. This advice is purely hypotetical, but I'd go with the 25 mgs of d-bol and 100mgs of Primo EOD for a total of 6 hits. On week 3, take just 2 d-bol in the morning Week 3 -- out. If you train hard and eat enough, you should put on about 10-12 solid pounds -- should keep about 8 of them.
 
Nelson......

But bro wouldn't perfectly normal kidney function tests mean that no damage is being done with the tren? When kidney damage starts the first thing the goes up is creatinine and it doesn't take much damaage to see this elevate..then up goes the blood urea nitrogen.....I have had never had even slight elevations with tren use bro.

Oh, I am sure that you will agree that the #1 side for men using roids is a very shitty lipid profile. I would be extra careful with the 17aa roids and especially winstrol as this one seems to be the worst for affecting HDL. But you probably take precautions like limited time on and niacin therapy.

I think tren is milder on the body than winstrol or any other 17aa roid.....just my opinion though.

RG:)
 
CharlesAtlast said:
Hey Rg what do you think of 4 on 4 off???


I think that is a good idea. Four weeks is about the limit for "safe cycling" as long as estrogen levels don't get out of hand. The time "on" time off is smart too.

If you do this year round be sure to use HCG at 3-500 iu's per day while "on" as the testes will shrink over a few cycles at this rate and that always messes with natural test recovery. 2 "on" 2 Off would be a little better I think but this is an individual thing....just keep an eye on the lipid profile and liver enyzmes if they get crappy then switch to 2 on 4 off for a while.

RG:)
 
Hey Nelson, I'm assuming your talking about the oral primo tabs with the acetate esther, not the injectable primo with the long-acting enanthate esther, which would not work for a two-week cycle.
 
Nelson Montana

As real gains points out , primo depot is a long acting inj. , therefore the ester would be still active at two weeks , Ive become very interested in this idea as I don't believe that either long or high doses are neccessary to get to say 250lbs , if high intesity and sensible training is used so I've looked up some articles by Bill Roberts (Mr. Montana is also noted here) and am curious now about the use of cytadren , which I have been led to believe was a very dangerous drug. So should I or shouldn't I and if so how? Thanks a lot for gettin back to me , this is one of the more informative threads on elite.
 
RG i thought 4 on 4 off was bad because after week 3 your test is shut down as hard as it's going to be so it won't matter if it is 4 weeks or 10? Or is this because your lipid profile will be better after only 4 even though you will still be shut down just as hard?

How likely do you think gyno from tren is? I would be worried that stacking dbol with tren increases estrogen which makes it more likely that you will get progesteron induced gyno from the tren?

just a couple question- thanks!
 
Realgains and others,
What do you think of using Anavar 35mg/day for 2 weeks? I am not looking for big muscle gains at all...mostly fat loss and strength gains. I train as a powerlifter.

Would it be necessesary to use clomid after this cycle? Also, this would be first cycle of AAS ever. Thanks for any input.
 
Lift Chief said:
RG i thought 4 on 4 off was bad because after week 3 your test is shut down as hard as it's going to be so it won't matter if it is 4 weeks or 10? Or is this because your lipid profile will be better after only 4 even though you will still be shut down just as hard?

How likely do you think gyno from tren is? I would be worried that stacking dbol with tren increases estrogen which makes it more likely that you will get progesteron induced gyno from the tren?

just a couple question- thanks!



Bro your test will be shut down in a couple days and not three weeks. It does take a little more than 2 weeks to put the pituitary to sleep though and this means inhibition is not complete and natural test production comes back very quickly.

I say 4 weeks is the most time I want a shitty lipid profile for....actually it is always longer than cycle length since hdl takes some time to recover after a cycle.

I have never in my life seen anyone get gyno from tren...it is extremely rare indeed and even rarer than low dose nandrolone which is also very rare.
In fact not all agree that tren is progestogenic.
What usually happens is the bro's that get the gyno have been on an aromatizable roid or test along with the tren. They take nolva when they notice the beginnings of gyno but it doesn't stop.....they then blame the tren ...BUT in reality the nolva was too late to stop the beginnings of gyno from the aromatizing roid or test.
Always take 20 of nolva during any cycle with aromatizing roids....and no it will nto cut into your gains.

RG
:)
 
musc2002pa said:
Realgains and others,
What do you think of using Anavar 35mg/day for 2 weeks? I am not looking for big muscle gains at all...mostly fat loss and strength gains. I train as a powerlifter.

Would it be necessesary to use clomid after this cycle? Also, this would be first cycle of AAS ever. Thanks for any input.


It will not do that much bro. Anavar is a very weak androgen and only a mild anabolic. If you did do var alone you should consider at least 50 per day in divided doses.

You would be better off using 50-75 of tren per day...a far better roid and not hard on the liver (or kidneys for that matter)

RG:)
 
Nelson Montana said:
Realgains:You're dead-on in some respects but a bit off on others.

You're absolutelly right about estrogen. There is an overconcern with it and everybody is willin got start popping anti-e's after one dianabol. Estrogen has many advantages and suppressing it should only be necessary if excessive aromatization occurs -- which would not be the case is dosages are kept reasonable.

(Incidentally, I know people have a hard time comprehending that and will continue to go about doing things the wrong way, but there's little I can do about it).

I find some contradiction in your statements however. Yes, test is king, and ALL steroids are based on the test molecule (essentially).

Anadrol will not aromatize to estrogen but it's high is progesterone (as is Deca) which can lead to puffy nips. ( nonestrogenic gyno.)

You compare Winstrol with Anadrol but the two are as different as can be. Since Winstrol with increase DHT, it may at as an anti-estrogen. It also as anti progesterone effects and is non bloating whereas Anadrol is very progesterongenic and very bloating. And the fact that Anadrol is considered a strong drug is absolutely wrong. It's a weak drug -- which is why it's made in a 50 mg tablet. Sure, it blows you up (water weight fron the progesterone) but you piss twice and lose 25 pounds. An equal amount of d-bol is much more powerful.

As far as steroids such as Winny (as well as Proviron) binding to AR, it's an advantage because DHT can not be converted to estogen. But in the case of Deca, there's no such advantage.

As far as Tren goes --never took it -- never will -- would never recommend it.

I don't know if you are some guy trying to further discredit nelson or if you really are nelson, but almost every post you make is with false information. neither nandrolone or oxymetholone convert to nor contain progesterone but are progestins themselves. stanazolol cannot and does not convert to dht nor contains any.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Realgains: Glad to hear you're getting blood tests and everything looks good. But that doesn't mean tren isn't toxic. There are people who smoke a pack of cigerettes a day and live to be 85. There are guys who sock away a bottle of booze each night and have no liver problems. That doesn't mean the threat doesn't exist or that it won't catch up to you. No thanks on the tren offer. Besides, I'm clean these days -- just test replacement straight from the doc.

The fact that W is hard on the hair, reduces SHBG, and only aromatizes in stupid dosages suggests a strong conversion to DHT.

Anadrol? Ain't worth it. Toxic, bloating, high blood pressure, gyno. Nah. Winny and d-bol for me.

Mandinka: The only way to bounce back is to let your body do it naturally. If dosages are kept low, and you're young and healthy, it shouldn't be a problem. Look at all the guys from the 60's. No anti-e's. No gyno.

Your problem was probably the deca. This advice is purely hypotetical, but I'd go with the 25 mgs of d-bol and 100mgs of Primo EOD for a total of 6 hits. On week 3, take just 2 d-bol in the morning Week 3 -- out. If you train hard and eat enough, you should put on about 10-12 solid pounds -- should keep about 8 of them.

Stanazolol reacts with aromatase? Do you have a supporting reference? Hair loss can be caused by any androgen, not merely dht.
 
So the 35mg/day of Anavar for 2 weeks wouldnt yield me anything? Again, I don't care if I gain 1lb of muscle. I just want to maintain the muscle I have, drop some bodyfat, and possibly pick up some strength. I am actually trying to drop a weight class and need to go down about 15-20lbs.

With traditional dieting and training, I know I'd give up some strength and muscle, and I really dont want to do that.

If I were to consider the Tren, would 75mg/EOD be sufficent for 2 weeks? Again, I am not looking for a miracle here. Also, would I have any use for Nolvadex, Proviron, or Clomid with the tren? I am assuming I would need the Clomid after the 2 weeks of tren. How long, and how much of the clomid? Thanks again.
 
musc2002pa said:
So the 35mg/day of Anavar for 2 weeks wouldnt yield me anything? Again, I don't care if I gain 1lb of muscle. I just want to maintain the muscle I have, drop some bodyfat, and possibly pick up some strength. I am actually trying to drop a weight class and need to go down about 15-20lbs.

With traditional dieting and training, I know I'd give up some strength and muscle, and I really dont want to do that.

If I were to consider the Tren, would 75mg/EOD be sufficent for 2 weeks? Again, I am not looking for a miracle here. Also, would I have any use for Nolvadex, Proviron, or Clomid with the tren? I am assuming I would need the Clomid after the 2 weeks of tren. How long, and how much of the clomid? Thanks again.


You would get a few pounds with the anavar bro. Tren is better but take it every day at 50-75. Winstrol/tren would be a good combo for your desires as they work well together.
Neither anavar , wintrol or tren convert to estrogen so nolva is not needed.

Stiudies say that tren will activate the progesterone receptor but I have never experienced any progetogenic bloat from it.

Tren can kill ones sex drive but not in two weeks usually so proviron is not needed. Proviron will help in any cycle though as it binds strongly with plasma binding proteins and this leaves more os the potent steroid like tren in an unbound state which is what we want ..

BTW proviron isn't that great as an estrogen inhibitor but it does work somewhat.

Clomid yes and at 300mg on day one and then 50 per day for at leasts two weeks and three or four would be better.

RG:)
 
Texas Ranger said:
I might try a 2 weeker soon.


It is nice to not have to worry about perfect diet, perfect training, liver enzymes, lipid profile, HPTA recovery and the like for 8-10 weeks..........its a nice change. I can really focus for two weeks but 10 weeks is another story.

RG:)
 
Real Gains...

would your cycle plan work well for a football player using test suspension...the reason i ask is because suspension has a short half life and is undetectable...what kinda gains could i expect from 2 weeks of suspension and 4 weeks off using clomid??
 
Hey RG. If your test levels came back very quickly post cycle don't you think it's not a accurate indication of test levels since the test is taken when you are still on clomid? And you pretty much go cycle to cycle on clomid in between all the cycles, so how can you tell if your actuall HPTA is recovered?
 
gwl9dta4 said:
Hey RG. If your test levels came back very quickly post cycle don't you think it's not a accurate indication of test levels since the test is taken when you are still on clomid? And you pretty much go cycle to cycle on clomid in between all the cycles, so how can you tell if your actuall HPTA is recovered?

My test level was very low at day 14 and then after a week it was very good and it then dropped back down to my usual norm after week three weeks off. If HPTA has not recovered then test levels would not come back like that even on clomid. All clomid does is block estrogen receptors at the hyprothalamus and pituitary as this stimulates GnRH and LH release. Once this has happened and the testes are back to normal then HPTA recovery is complete.

RG
 
Okay back to the main question...

Number 1: Has anyone other then realgains attempted the 2 on 4 off cycle yet? What were gains experienced? What was weight before cycled started?

Thanks,
John G.
 
I will be trying this cycling method in the near future... RG seems to have a solid argument for this 2-4-2 method. I would also appreciate opinions from anyone else who has tried this method, or anything similar.
In addition, does using a long acting ester at the beginning of the two week cycle, as suggested in another post, make a significant difference in gains, or HPTA recovery, or any other way, when compared to having a two week cycle entirely composed of short acting compounds? Perhaps this might impact clomid therapy timing, depending on the amount of the long acting ester used at the beginning, and how far into the cycle it was administered.
All in all, this is a very interesting post. Lets keep it going!
 
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