Trouble Keeping Gains??? Help!!!

[jacshelb]

So much of that deflation is just water volume in the muscle. Yes, you look smaller and weigh less, but the quality "meat" of what you've built is not going to dissapear within 2 weeks unless you are doing something seriously wrong. I always, always without fail, no matter what I'm running, lose 8 lbs of weight as soon as everything clears my system. It's like clockwork and I expect it. I came off my cycle at 225 lbs, my pct kinda sucked and I gained a bit of fat. But now, a few weeks later I'm right in the 210 range on a keto diet looking hard and still up 15 lbs from where I started in Jan. I'm cleaning out and getting ready for round 2!

That's what it's about: PROGRESS! Not perfection the first time out. Keep making quality improvements to your physique slowly over time. I may not weigh 230 after a meal right now, but I look better on my worst day today than on my biggest and juiced a couple years ago! That's about quality, not all about quantity!

p.s. The statement Joe D. made about tapering is a good one. It's a technique that is so overlooked these days and can seriously help if done correctly: After the test/eq or whatever has cleared, do a short acting oral in the morning. It'll clear your system by night giving your nuts a chance to kick in while still getting a little help every morning. Reduce the dose of this over the course of two weeks or so (while getting some of your pct started- then continue with pct after) and then tell me you didn't keep more of your gains!

 

[WinnyPumps]

I know guys who've kept 90% of their gains from their last cycles over 2 years ago.
I've got a friend who gained about 80 pounds in 15 months, went from 150 to 230 when he was 18, he's 23 now and hasn't juiced since he was 18, he's 235 and 10%

That sounds like a big crock og horseshit! But if that's somewhat true how the fuck did he do it? lol

 

[WinnyPumps]

My first Dbol cycle i gained 25lbs and kept 22.


So There you go.

RADAR

Explain in detail how you did that. I would really like to know.

 

[WinnyPumps]

You hrt guys shouldn't be in this thread, it's not fair! lol

On a good note I did get back a couple pounds and still look pretty decent. Stayin positive. Next time I think I might taper off and use more hcg like 1000iu the last 10 days and start doing adex, Sustain, Unleashed, and toco-8 about 1-2 weeks earlier than I did this time.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

So much of that deflation is just water volume in the muscle. Yes, you look smaller and weigh less, but the quality "meat" of what you've built is not going to dissapear within 2 weeks unless you are doing something seriously wrong. I always, always without fail, no matter what I'm running, lose 8 lbs of weight as soon as everything clears my system. It's like clockwork and I expect it. I came off my cycle at 225 lbs, my pct kinda sucked and I gained a bit of fat. But now, a few weeks later I'm right in the 210 range on a keto diet looking hard and still up 15 lbs from where I started in Jan. I'm cleaning out and getting ready for round 2!

That's what it's about: PROGRESS! Not perfection the first time out. Keep making quality improvements to your physique slowly over time. I may not weigh 230 after a meal right now, but I look better on my worst day today than on my biggest and juiced a couple years ago! That's about quality, not all about quantity!

p.s. The statement Joe D. made about tapering is a good one. It's a technique that is so overlooked these days and can seriously help if done correctly: After the test/eq or whatever has cleared, do a short acting oral in the morning. It'll clear your system by night giving your nuts a chance to kick in while still getting a little help every morning. Reduce the dose of this over the course of two weeks or so (while getting some of your pct started- then continue with pct after) and then tell me you didn't keep more of your gains!

can another oral be used instead of dbol? any of Needto's products?

 

[jacshelb]

can another oral be used instead of dbol? any of Needto's products?

I've been a cheap ass and haven't even got around to buying any d-bol (which is still cheap, lol) in years. Most of the time my cycles have been so short and moderate I've gotten away without it. I just tapered down the test. amounts. But, the idea with the orals is that they are in your system only a few hours. Beastdrol/superdrol clears in about 8 hours correct? That's what I used last time, seemed to help some. What I like about d-bol though is its short half life (4 hrs thereabouts) and easy to split up or low dose tabs. If you finish off your cycle and take 10 mg every day of dbol as the test and other injects are clearing and stretch that out a little past when they've cleared then drop it down to 7.5 in the morning for 5 days, then 5mg in the morning for 5-7 days, then 2.5 mg in the morning for 5 days or so. I know it sounds stupid, but the couple times I did this I had the absolute smoothest transition ever: no depression, no drop in sex drive, no crazy fat rebound or any typical pct problems. And, this was without hcg. So, I sometimes wish I had a little d-bol laying around just for this (it makes you feel good too, unlike superdrol). But, I just used my superdrol clone last time and it worked ok.

Another thing that doesn't get talked about much is using DHEA during pct. I had a rough pct this last time around, not horrid, but not great. When I added in DHEA at 100mg in the morning and another 100 post workout, I felt 10 times better. This saw me through while I recovered. I had more energy and sex drive almost immediately. I'm 30 now though, I don't know if I would have noticed as much 5 years ago.

These are just my opinions. I don't want to put anything out there like I'm some expert. I'm just a dude with horrid genetics who has done every stupid wrong thing you can imagine with drugs, training, and diet. But, since I'm willing to try about anything and experiment I get a lot of experiences and different results. I would never rely on d-bol or anything like that for pct. It's just that tapering fell out of favor when pct got more sophisticated and I think it can still have a place. I mean, if it did some good for guys years back, why not incorporate its benefits and combine them with the new protocols?

And, for those who really, really are against tapering. I just want to say that you wouldn't be if you'd ever tried coming off Paxil or something like that cold turkey! Even if there was a "recovery" drug for coming off of anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds, the docs would still recommend tapering the dose. The feedback loop with seretonin receptors, production ect. is similar to the HPTA in relation to how it basically operates. A lessening dose of the foreign drug signals your body to start producing again naturally in both cases. A sudden and full stop will throw your body into a tailspin. The PCT drugs are there to "restore" the natural flow of things once this has happened. In other words they are there to "clean up" the mess made by making that change. So, why make that change any more drastic than it has to be? Ease your body into PCT next time and I think you'll be thanking the concept of tapering for increased retention of gains, better moods, and an all around better recovery time.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

I've been a cheap ass and haven't even got around to buying any d-bol (which is still cheap, lol) in years. Most of the time my cycles have been so short and moderate I've gotten away without it. I just tapered down the test. amounts. But, the idea with the orals is that they are in your system only a few hours. Beastdrol/superdrol clears in about 8 hours correct? That's what I used last time, seemed to help some. What I like about d-bol though is its short half life (4 hrs thereabouts) and easy to split up or low dose tabs. If you finish off your cycle and take 10 mg every day of dbol as the test and other injects are clearing and stretch that out a little past when they've cleared then drop it down to 7.5 in the morning for 5 days, then 5mg in the morning for 5-7 days, then 2.5 mg in the morning for 5 days or so. I know it sounds stupid, but the couple times I did this I had the absolute smoothest transition ever: no depression, no drop in sex drive, no crazy fat rebound or any typical pct problems. And, this was without hcg. So, I sometimes wish I had a little d-bol laying around just for this (it makes you feel good too, unlike superdrol). But, I just used my superdrol clone last time and it worked ok.

Another thing that doesn't get talked about much is using DHEA during pct. I had a rough pct this last time around, not horrid, but not great. When I added in DHEA at 100mg in the morning and another 100 post workout, I felt 10 times better. This saw me through while I recovered. I had more energy and sex drive almost immediately. I'm 30 now though, I don't know if I would have noticed as much 5 years ago.

These are just my opinions. I don't want to put anything out there like I'm some expert. I'm just a dude with horrid genetics who has done every stupid wrong thing you can imagine with drugs, training, and diet. But, since I'm willing to try about anything and experiment I get a lot of experiences and different results. I would never rely on d-bol or anything like that for pct. It's just that tapering fell out of favor when pct got more sophisticated and I think it can still have a place. I mean, if it did some good for guys years back, why not incorporate its benefits and combine them with the new protocols?

And, for those who really, really are against tapering. I just want to say that you wouldn't be if you'd ever tried coming off Paxil or something like that cold turkey! Even if there was a "recovery" drug for coming off of anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds, the docs would still recommend tapering the dose. The feedback loop with seretonin receptors, production ect. is similar to the HPTA in relation to how it basically operates. A lessening dose of the foreign drug signals your body to start producing again naturally in both cases. A sudden and full stop will throw your body into a tailspin. The PCT drugs are there to "restore" the natural flow of things once this has happened. In other words they are there to "clean up" the mess made by making that change. So, why make that change any more drastic than it has to be? Ease your body into PCT next time and I think you'll be thanking the concept of tapering for increased retention of gains, better moods, and an all around better recovery time.

makes perfect sense to me bro, i dont think that low of a dose can keep you shut down. People that stay on 100mg EW HRT still have a chance to recover months later because the HRT dose was low enough to keep producing a little natty test.

I have extra tren, prohormone, lying around. Im wondering if i could use that? Its 30mg a pill, so a pill in the morning for a week, half a pill, for a week, quarter of a pill for 5 days, then just PCT

Not to hijack the thread. Shit winny get some natty supps to help keep the weight/size until your test is back to normal and you can drop that shit. creatine/NO supp. Extra protein, extra food. Cant think of anything else

 

[jacshelb]

All good info imo. Good to have a few ideas out there to choose from! I don't know much about the tren prohormone- I mean, how suppressive it might be, but it sounds like it's worth a try. I think the main thing is that it is out of your system for most of the day and the dose isn't too high.

All the best,

Jacob

 

[timtim]

sounds like you were water logged.

 

[perryscoon]

I think the newbies get really discouraged when they lose weight after a cycle because they don't realize that most of that weight was water to begin with.

Basically what happens is you take a bunch of steps forward and then a few back every cycle. That is the way it works. Anyone who tells you "diet and proper pct" will make you keep your gains is FoS. The ONLY way to keep ALL of your gains is to stay on.

But if the scale is whats really bothering you then just start a creatine regiment when you come off. That will keep you somewhat bloated, but you'll still lose some weight.